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Problem: In StarCraft, WarCraft, all RTS'es I have seen really, the hotkeys for any given unit/spell/building/whatever is just arbitrarily decided by the game designers, pretty much picking a random letter in the unit/spell/building/whatever. This leads to:
1: Horribly misplaced hotkeys (P for Probe, K for Dark Templar which are a bitch to press. Spread out hotkeys also make it more difficult to hit the right keys, seeing as you have to move your left-hand all over the place all the time.
2: Steep learning-curve to actually figure out the hotkeys. I have played thousands of games, most of them with Protoss, but I have no idea what the hotkey for researching psionic storm is, or for air armor, Zealot speed, even Dragoon range. Of course, you eventually learn the hotkeys, but when I'm playing C&C Generals, for instance, I don't use much hotkeys at all because I don't have time to learn them in the middle of playing a 1:1 grudge match.
But I'm not whining just because I like to whine.
Solution: Instead of determining hotkeys by taking a random letter in a units name and hoping it doesn't collide with some other hotkey, Blizzard could map hotkeys to the position in the grid where you would click with your mouse.
Hotkeys would depend only on the position of the icon, regardless of which unit or building you have selected. This is easily expanded for the larger grid they are planning to use for SC2.
Disadvantages:
1) Familiar cross-game hotkeys like attack-move, stop, hold position would almost have to change.
2) Hotkeys would be closer to each other, which might increase the likelihood of misclicking.
3) Does not deal with very specific issues, such as misclicking ssm instead of sm giving you Scourge instead of Mutalisks.
Advantages:
1) All hotkeys would be easily in reach of the left hand.
2) It would be easy to figure out the hotkey for anything merely by looking at its position in the grid.
3) Hotkeys could be determined by the program without having to be set manually by the designers.
4) Hotkeys would be identical regardless of language version.
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I've already suggested this and so have others. Custom Hotkeys in SC2 will be implemented. I will probably set all buildings and units to match this grid and get used to it.
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I had this setup for a long time with SC1, it works very very well 
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I'm sure they will put customkeys in sc2, like in wc3. I absolutely loved customkeys.
I had the hotkeys of the unit/building on the respective position in the User Interface. Like you picture explains, but there's more.
For example: train scv = q , build barracks = z + a
Also with the most basic commands like attack will still be on 'A' .
Anyway you will be able to just choose the hotkey you prefer, also the standart arbitrary hotkeys that blizzard picks
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I have had my hotkeys in StarCraft1 set like this for at least 5 years.
qwe
asd h
zxc
and tab are all i need ... and the numbers h is still hold because it is easily accessible.
Edit - I left out one major disadvantage, you will wear out the Q key on your keyboard LOL you press it more then any other key.
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Out of curiosity, how do you change your hotkeys in SC1?
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I can foresee many lost games cause pros forgot to set their hotkeys before a match xD
But yeah, I'm all for such a change.
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But don't improved controls make the game more newb-friendly?
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On September 02 2007 09:43 iamke55 wrote:
But don't improved controls make the game more newb-friendly?
ARGH Brain aneurysm.
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On September 02 2007 09:40 OrderlyChaos wrote:
Out of curiosity, how do you change your hotkeys in SC1?
You have to edit patch_rt.mpq file. I think their is a tutorial and tools floating around on gosu gamers if you don't know how to do it yourself.
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On September 02 2007 09:45 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2007 09:43 iamke55 wrote:
But don't improved controls make the game more newb-friendly? ARGH Brain aneurysm.
...
you still have to know what button to push at what time. it really isn't going to change much. the skill level isn't going to dramatically change just because you can map your own hotkeys now
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What?!
Blizzard hotkeys are so easy to remember. It follows the first letter in the name of the unit. P for probe, D for drone, M for marine, etc... The only exception to this is when there are two units that begin with the same letter, then the leftmost unit gets the second letter, then the third, etc.
The only exception would be S for larvae, but come on. So you have to learn ONE exception.
Unit production hotkeys don't annoy me as much as spellcaster hotkeys do. You mean I have to reach allll the way to "I" so I can irradiate? damn.
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On September 02 2007 10:56 Axsynthe wrote:
What?!
Blizzard hotkeys are so easy to remember. It follows the first letter in the name of the unit. P for probe, D for drone, M for marine, etc... The only exception to this is when there are two units that begin with the same letter, then the leftmost unit gets the second letter, then the third, etc.
The only exception would be S for larvae, but come on. So you have to learn ONE exception.
Unit production hotkeys don't annoy me as much as spellcaster hotkeys do. You mean I have to reach allll the way to "I" so I can irradiate? damn.
The complaint is not that the hotkeys are hard to remember, it is that hotkeys like 'p' for probe or pylon are too far right to be comfortably reached.
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On September 02 2007 10:58 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2007 10:56 Axsynthe wrote:
What?!
Blizzard hotkeys are so easy to remember. It follows the first letter in the name of the unit. P for probe, D for drone, M for marine, etc... The only exception to this is when there are two units that begin with the same letter, then the leftmost unit gets the second letter, then the third, etc.
The only exception would be S for larvae, but come on. So you have to learn ONE exception.
Unit production hotkeys don't annoy me as much as spellcaster hotkeys do. You mean I have to reach allll the way to "I" so I can irradiate? damn.
The complaint is not that the hotkeys are hard to remember, it is that hotkeys like 'p' for probe or pylon are too far right to be comfortably reached.
He mentions the steep learning curve in order to get used to them.
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main reason i hate playing P
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I wonder if they will ever let us customize hotkeys.
Imagine pro gamers arriving at a tournament and requesting that all their hotkeys be set as they want them to be.
They re already quite a bitch about their hardware and drivers, imagine setting up all kinds of different hotkeys everytime a new player enters the box.
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Well, WC3 has customizable hotkeys... Not sure if the pros get to reconfigure the hotkeys when they get to the tourneys. I'm fairly sure it's just a small text file to customize the WC3 hotkeys tho'. So it'd be really easy to customize at each tournament, if I understand it right.
I'd love to play around with my hotkeys. I'm for this feature.
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There has been a couple threads about this, with some good discussion.
I personally would want it default to SCBW style hotkeys, but have the other as a toggle. For the record I would probably switch over to the 'new' keys.
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Just like WC3, SC2 will likely have customizable hotkeys. When I play zerg, I usually press the pictures for certain units.
I hope SC2 will default to SC1 keys. It will be very difficult to play both games if they have their own hotkeys.
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On September 02 2007 11:53 OrderlyChaos wrote:
Well, WC3 has customizable hotkeys... Not sure if the pros get to reconfigure the hotkeys when they get to the tourneys. I'm fairly sure it's just a small text file to customize the WC3 hotkeys tho'. So it'd be really easy to customize at each tournament, if I understand it right.
I'd love to play around with my hotkeys. I'm for this feature.
Of course they're able to reconfigure their hotkeys at the tourneys. They just upload the CustomKeys.txt file there. Imagine how it would suck for pros if they would be using their custom keys all the time except for tournaments.
If any of you would like to see how such file looks like then here it is:
http://rapidshare.com/files/52849042/CustomKeys.txt.html
And note that you're also able to change the button positions ^_^
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having hotkeys on qwe asd zcx in wc3 means that for grouping efficiency you need to have multiple and different buildings on 1 group, and switch between with tab. Getting used to this requires alot of determination, it wont noobify sc2 at all.
However personally I like it somewhat spread out.
1a2a3a4a5z6z7z8z9p0p is second nature
going like 1q2q 3q tab e 4q would make me do sooooo many misclicks
If I ever feel the urge for customkeys in sc2, I would probably use 123456 qwerty asdfgh zxcvbn to cover everything.
And wouldent space bar be a great key for attack?
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I can't stand hotkeys that are just random, like 'Q' for Dragoon or something. It helps me memorize them if they are either the first letter of the unit or atleast second.
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The
QWE
ASD
ZXC
keys are such a bitch. It reminds me of Footman Frenzy in Warcraft 3. -_-
I actually really don't mind how the keys were made in SC1; however, I'd like them to be like DotA's: all on the left side of the keyboard, but not blatantly done like the QWE system.
For example, Probe would be R or E, not Q.
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Of course it would take a while to get used to, but regardless, I like most of the hotkeys as they are now. Using a grid shape to mimic the positions in the 3x3 box on the bottom right seems so uncomfortable, because the same hotkey would be used for different units, based on which building you currently have selected. Though some combinations are uncomfortable (k for Dark Templar), they make sense for each specific unit. I don't see what your problem is with p for probe, using nexus as 0 0p is very handy. The one that bothers me most is probably s for scourge, because if you click s twice while having the hatchery selected by accident, you can waste a lot of gas/larva. However, all of this is due to human error. The hotkeys in general, as I said before, aren't bad and make sense. D was Dragoon, so Dark Templar had to be something else. Easy as that.
On top of that, the QWEASD(ZXC) keys for many people are on a slant, so it's not nearly the grid that is shown in the box. For me, the line between Q and W cuts the Z button in half. That's how harsh the slant would be, and misclicks would happen often.
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On September 02 2007 08:48 Kreeeee wrote:I had this setup for a long time with SC1, it works very very well
How did you have it? How you do it?
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On September 02 2007 20:33 oshibori_probe wrote:
having hotkeys on qwe asd zcx in wc3 means that for grouping efficiency you need to have multiple and different buildings on 1 group, and switch between with tab. Getting used to this requires alot of determination, it wont noobify sc2 at all.
However personally I like it somewhat spread out.
1a2a3a4a5z6z7z8z9p0p is second nature
going like 1q2q 3q tab e 4q would make me do sooooo many misclicks
If I ever feel the urge for customkeys in sc2, I would probably use 123456 qwerty asdfgh zxcvbn to cover everything.
And wouldent space bar be a great key for attack?
Space would be awesome, but it'd be even cooler if you could use a side button on your mouse too [: Like, you have Right click, Left click, and Mouse3 (which is either a scroller or a side button for most people). I think that would be incredibly useful, no need to move your hand from the number keys to the a button. Just 1click2click3click4click etc.
"1a2a3a4a5z6z7z8z9p0p is second nature"
Basically exactly what I do xD So easy.
I get frustrated when I have 8+ gates and I had to use 876543 and then double click 3 to jump my screen to where my other gates are. If let's say I could make my other 2 gates w and q, it'd be almost like going down the same row. 8z7z6d5d4d3twtqt. So easy. I hope they have that in SC2.
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On September 02 2007 20:33 oshibori_probe wrote:
having hotkeys on qwe asd zcx in wc3 means that for grouping efficiency you need to have multiple and different buildings on 1 group, and switch between with tab. Getting used to this requires alot of determination, it wont noobify sc2 at all.
However personally I like it somewhat spread out.
1a2a3a4a5z6z7z8z9p0p is second nature
going like 1q2q 3q tab e 4q would make me do sooooo many misclicks
If I ever feel the urge for customkeys in sc2, I would probably use 123456 qwerty asdfgh zxcvbn to cover everything.
And wouldent space bar be a great key for attack?
I prefer space bar for "jumping" to critical locations.
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On September 03 2007 01:39 thoraxe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2007 08:48 Kreeeee wrote:I had this setup for a long time with SC1, it works very very well How did you have it? How you do it?
I used keycraft 1.0
I used:
RTY
FGH
VBN
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On September 03 2007 15:57 Kreeeee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2007 01:39 thoraxe wrote:On September 02 2007 08:48 Kreeeee wrote:I had this setup for a long time with SC1, it works very very well How did you have it? How you do it? I used keycraft 1.0 I used: RTY FGH VBN
Wow I did it manually editing the .MPQ I worked way to hard DOH!!!
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After playing a lot, I am quite used to the bw hotkeys. The only changes I would want is the S for scourge and P for probe (I am used to hotkeying 1 with my probe, so 1p1p1p is very frustrating and hotkeying to 0 feels weird-_-)
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I'm already using this qwe hotkey system. Thank god I found out how to customize SC1 hotkey or I wouldn't even touch the game. SC2 is going to have custom hotkeys just like War3, its kind of mandatory in this day and age.
It's great that some of you guys got use to the hotkeys for SC1 and prefer it that way. No prob with that, customizing hotkey is just for others who don't feel the same. So some will play with the default hotkeys other will customize its a win/win situation!
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I had those keys too, even before the gosugamer guide~~!
backup your old patch_rt.mpq and replace it with this one
http://download.yousendit.com/0DD859037D3A5293
It's basicly
qwe
asd
zxc
when constructing buildings/units
Spells are at qwe instead of zxc so that they are easier to reach.
Things like archonmold, evolve lurker, guardian/dev form, comsat/silo addon are at z,x
liftoff is C
burrow is q for all zerg
Attack and Stop are at a,s as usual but
hold position is D and patrol is R making it easier to use those commands
Really fast when your used to it; not recommended if you are going to play at tournaments etc...
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hmm i might just check that out jtan, cheers 
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Oh plz stop asking question about things that already have been answered.
Yes blizzard is going to let US configure hotkeys SINCE, they did it in wc3 and they said in interviews that they want to make sc2 even more accessable for the players..
Also, it's easy to just take an usb-stick(also rapidshare as seen above) with the customkeys as a progamer, as pro warcraft 3 players are already doing.
It's easier to remember a position on a keyboard than a letter, even if the letter is the first of the unit's name. While this might be different for some people, generally it's that way.
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I never really used hotkeys for unit production in SC. I just pressed like 4,5,6,7 and clicked on the unit icon. Much more comfortable I think.
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On September 02 2007 07:57 Babibo wrote:
1) Familiar cross-game hotkeys like attack-move, stop, hold position would almost have to change.
I don't see why these keys would have to change; clicking a building (or selecting it through a hotkey) and pressing A would only select that button on the grid, it wouldn't cause any of your units to attack-move the building, would it?
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9 and 0 are relatively close to P for probe.
Also larvae hotkey is S because 'Spawn'
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Valhalla18444 Posts
It's actually S for 'Select Larva' 
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i remember a program that gave sc custom hotkeys, it was very smart and intuitive.
it was designed like this: there are 9 boxes to the bottom right in the starcraft console that are reserved for certain things, example, when you select build with probe the top left box is a nexus, the top right an assimilator. well the program made the hotkeys correspond to the position by using the 9 keys at the left of the keyboard : qwe // asd // zxc , it was really easy.
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Good idea to be able to reconfigure your keys to how ever you want it. Be best if SC2 had this for you easyly set up not something you have to look up. perferabliy so you can change select larva and scorge
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
What Blizz should do is have say 3 "sets" of hotkey config as default in options and the option to customize your hotkeys
Having 3 sets of default reduces the time it would take to switch them, for TV games mostly
Maybe different hotkey setups will be better for different races because the races are getting more unique? i dno...
just my 2c
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On September 02 2007 07:57 Babibo wrote:
Solution: Instead of determining hotkeys by taking a random letter in a units name and hoping it doesn't collide with some other hotkey, Blizzard could map hotkeys to the position in the grid where you would click with your mouse.
Hi everyone. This is my first post on this forum so a little word of presentation: i originally played only warcraft 3, but i was invited in a starcraft lan 2 years ago, and i found this game pretty cool, so now i play both games (and i mainly follow sc pro scene because it is so much more interesting ;-))
So for my opinion as a mainly warcraft player, where we can modify the customkeys.txt:
- a grid based hotkeys is pretty cool, and using q for attack-move rather than a is not so hard to get used
- miskeys do not happen so frequently
- you get used rapidly to use the same key for different things depending of the current building selected
- it makes using each races at the beginning easier, and it also make it easier for beginners to learn the hotkeys and use less the mouse. This is good because it will let people to occasionally play without going through the hassle to learn each hotkeys. I play total annihilation from time to time, but not enough to bother learning the hotkeys, and it is a pain to have to use the mouse for everything
Anyway, i know the ability to choose the hotkeys and the icons position will be implemented just like in war3, and there will be no need for blizzard to do a graphical interface to change hotkeys as the community will provide one (you can check warcraftkeys for warcraft which is really good).
But i think that the default hotkeys when installing the game should be the one that is hotkeys based for the reasons mentionned previously:
- people who only play from time to time on different computers won't have their custom keys ready in an usb key with them, so they won't be able to change the hotkeys. They may even not know that they can change them.
- people who wants to have an efficient set of hotkeys will know that they can change them (because if they want an efficient one, they already are pretty good). I think it is easier to have an easy set of hotkeys to learn than an efficient one at the beginning. And the grid based layer is pretty efficient in fact.
- if mod are used, they will use additionnaly hotkeys in respect to the default layout. This may render a grid based hotkey incompatible with these mods. An exemple in warcraft is dota, originally you couldn't remap the new abilities, and some of them were incompatible with my layout. And anyway it is a pain to remap the hotkeys for each mod.
Sorry for my english, it is not my native language.
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QWE
ASD or whatever grid system you want.,. my point will be the same.,
ZXC
You can't make grid hotkeys for a MBS game. What does Q do when you have a bunker and a barracks selected at the same time? Build a marine and a vulture (or whatever the sc2 unit in the top left is)? It won't work. 1 key per unit per class is a physical limit to the MBS system that we have to accept.
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I suppose you can't select different types of buildings.
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On October 01 2007 20:00 Konni wrote:
I suppose you can't select different types of buildings.
Thats what MBS is. Multiple building select. And it is confirmed that you can select multiple different types of buildings.
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In warcraft you can tab between different group of units. Here is how it works, assuming you select four buildings, two of type A, two of type B. You get 4 icons, and a subgroup of 2 units (building of type A). Tabbing select the second subgroup of building of type B. If you press 'q' while having the subgroup A seleced, it produces the corresponding unit in a building of group A (it select the one that has the less remaining time of current unit queue i think). This is for mbs, and it works the same when you have different groups of casters. You can't select units + building, and i never tried to select a tower with a producing building, but there is no reason that a grid based hotkey system would prevent that.
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On September 25 2007 22:02 gondolin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2007 07:57 Babibo wrote:
Solution: Instead of determining hotkeys by taking a random letter in a units name and hoping it doesn't collide with some other hotkey, Blizzard could map hotkeys to the position in the grid where you would click with your mouse.
Anyway, i know the ability to choose the hotkeys and the icons position will be implemented just like in war3, and there will be no need for blizzard to do a graphical interface to change hotkeys as the community will provide one (you can check warcraftkeys for warcraft which is really good).
Yes, there will be a need to implement it. Anything that can be done by the developers to help people customize the keys SHOULD be implemented. Your mentality is like saying that they shouldn't put replay watching in game and that all replays would have to be compiled and run through a third party program. There's just no point in Blizzard NOT putting a graphical interface in game.
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blizzard should just make something in the game to change hotkeys in the options menu to whatever instead of having to use a text file like in warcraft 3
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my question is, what is the hotkey for the terran scanner sweep??? thank you
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Perfect first post, I see you have a great posting future on TL ahead of you!
Good luck on your journey and have a fun stay at Disney Land.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:55 Puosu wrote:
Perfect first post, I see you have a great posting future on TL ahead of you!
Good luck on your journey and have a fun stay at Disney Land.
does he needed to open a new thread?
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Look at his name...necrofeast
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i never knew remembering and pressing the default hotkeys was so hard. but even if they implement the custom hotkeys i'll stick with the default because i'd feel so annoyed trying to figure out the best hotkeys and by the time i do i'm pretty sure i can press the default ones with the same speed
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temporaryiy4.jpg)
