EPT
ESL sold for $1B to Saudi-backed Savvy Gaming Group
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33432 Posts
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Jakji
1 Post
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
We'll see how this goes - I have my opinions about KSA, but have to admit I don't mind more investment pouring into eSports. Just hope they don't ruin this org | ||
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luxon
United States112 Posts
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Zetter
Germany629 Posts
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Slydie
1923 Posts
Political controversy is a fairly common thing in E-sports. What will be the consequenze if a player shows symphaties in one of the many wars and conflicts Saudi-Arabia is involved with? It might be a financial move only, but I find it is sad to see this happen to ESL. | ||
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tommey.liang
United States363 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
But past the irony, not sure I like it for SC2, I'd preffer if no one looked to closely at us. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33432 Posts
On January 25 2022 07:13 Nakajin wrote: Saudi Arabians becoming the main international diffusers of a game based on killing generic turban-weering middle-estern terrorist fighting the West is a trully facinating exemple of the mind-bogling realities of modern international capitalism. But past the irony, not sure I like it for SC2, I'd preffer if no one looked to closely at us. Were there old versions of CS where the terrorists were stereotype middle-eastern? From what I've played of CSGO and source, it seemed like that was avoided pretty intentionally. | ||
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iloveoof
12 Posts
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honorablemacroterran
188 Posts
On January 25 2022 07:22 Waxangel wrote: Were there old versions of CS where the terrorists were stereotype middle-eastern? From what I've played of CSGO and source, it seemed like that was avoided pretty intentionally. CS has different skins for the teams depending on the map. Sometimes the CTs are Seal Team Six, sometimes SAS, and various other European counter-terrorist/special forces teams. One of the terrorist factions was definitely Middle Eastern themed last time I played. There's also Anarchists, Basque Separatists, etc. etc. | ||
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Telephone
United States142 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On January 25 2022 07:22 Waxangel wrote: Were there old versions of CS where the terrorists were stereotype middle-eastern? From what I've played of CSGO and source, it seemed like that was avoided pretty intentionally. Oh, well I gotta be honest I haven't played CS in like 10 years, but my memory of it were the terrorist on like Dust 2 and those seemed pretty much standard middle estern terrorist. Could be totally wrong for sure. | ||
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LHK
204 Posts
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Chris_Havoc
United States600 Posts
Now how this deal affects SC2 obviously remains to be seen. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20301 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33432 Posts
On January 25 2022 08:44 Chris_Havoc wrote: Considering this group is not only buying ESL but also FaceIT for an additional $500 million, means this deal is primarily about acquiring CS:GO assets and not so much about StarCraft 2. Now how this deal affects SC2 obviously remains to be seen. Well, the 2022/23 EPT plan is already laid out, and SC2 is so minor for ESL I imagine it doesn't affect the operations of the league much at all. I think the way fans will notice it most is if random Saudi ventures (NEOM, etc) become the main sponsors of EPT and are prominently displayed/ads played every break. Mind you, this is just talking about how it might affect ESL SC2 in practical terms, not the underlying issue of principle. | ||
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Chris_Havoc
United States600 Posts
On January 25 2022 09:20 Waxangel wrote: Well, the 2022/23 EPT plan is already laid out, and SC2 is so minor for ESL I imagine it doesn't affect the operations of the league much at all. I think the way fans will notice it most is if random Saudi ventures (NEOM, etc) become the main sponsors of EPT and are prominently displayed/ads played every break. Mind you, this is just talking about how it might affect ESL SC2 in practical terms, not the underlying issue of principle. The question is, what happens after Katowice 2023. Does ESL pull out of SC2 Esports altogether and go all in on CS:GO using the combined power of IEM, Dreamhack, FaceIT, and ESEA similar to how MLG tried (and failed) to monopolize Call of Duty Esports from 2013-2015? It's a possible scenario. Honestly, as long as Carmac, Apollo, and Heyoka remain with ESL I wouldn't worry much about StarCraft 2's future with ESL. As far as the underlying political issues and fallout from this is concerned, I am not going to wade into that topic. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13977 Posts
On January 25 2022 07:22 Waxangel wrote: Were there old versions of CS where the terrorists were stereotype middle-eastern? From what I've played of CSGO and source, it seemed like that was avoided pretty intentionally. Dust 2 and Mirage (the most popular maps) have sterotypical looking mid-east terrorists, but there are diff maps with diff terrorists like mirage with euroterrorists | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25630 Posts
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trinity_law
5 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4203 Posts
wondering if it will have any impact on the competitive e-sport scene.. | ||
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States654 Posts
On January 25 2022 16:31 Ziggy wrote: time for microsoft to dust that mlg they just bought? That would be nice, Microsoft Macrohard. | ||
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LemonyTang
United Kingdom428 Posts
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trinity_law
5 Posts
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2578 Posts
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pzlama333
United States277 Posts
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Poopi
France12891 Posts
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killtech8080
1 Post
Goodbye ESL. | ||
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_fool
Netherlands678 Posts
On January 25 2022 20:28 killtech8080 wrote: Truly disgusting news... these evil klerofascists are putting their dirty paws on everything that once made western culture great. I used to play a watch football alot, stopped playing due to age and injuries, stopped watching due to investment news like this one. Goodbye ESL. Wow nice first post. Welcome to TL. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 25 2022 18:22 AmericanUmlaut wrote: I'm hardly an expert on Saudi law, but my understanding of the state of gay and trans rights there is that a number of prominent members of this community would be at risk of being jailed and beaten if they were to set foot in Saudi Arabia. Having that government owning our premier tournament series is seriously troubling. I wanted to reply with a sarcastic comment about US but then I realized I don't know any gay or trans SC2 progamer(I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I don't know who they are ). I've always considered this to be a personal information I shouldn't care about... anyway, I hope there won't be any issues. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On January 25 2022 21:28 deacon.frost wrote: I wanted to reply with a sarcastic comment about US but then I realized I don't know any gay or trans SC2 progamer(I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I don't know who they are ). I've always considered this to be a personal information I shouldn't care about... anyway, I hope there won't be any issues. 3 trans/gay/bi SC2 personalities come to my mind imediatly (At least one of them is retired allready though) Probably there are even more Who didn t disclose it. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4731 Posts
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Judgement
Netherlands152 Posts
The fact that people have forgotten that the Saudi Crown Prince, and everybody linked to this "Royal" family, were linked to the killing and dismembering of a journalist but applauding when the same people put money into eSport or Soccer or anything PR related is mind boggling | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 25 2022 21:55 Silvanel wrote: They might have disclosed it, but that doesnt mean everybody knows about it. This topic doesnt come often during streams from events. IMO it shouldn't, feels to me like it would an intrusion into their privacy. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18048 Posts
On January 25 2022 21:28 deacon.frost wrote: I wanted to reply with a sarcastic comment about US but then I realized I don't know any gay or trans SC2 progamer(I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I don't know who they are ). I've always considered this to be a personal information I shouldn't care about... anyway, I hope there won't be any issues. There's one in the Oceania scene (I want to say Probe, but am not sure), but Scarlett is the one that immediately comes to mind... Ontopic: just as I deplore the oil states buying up football clubs, I deplore this as well. But I can't really blame the ESL owners/investors for selling the org for 1billion dollars. It's an absurd amount. I want to think about how that meeting went: "Saudi investors said they are interested in buying ESL" "Errr... no. KSA are awful, and sportswashing their nation with eSports is not something we should support" "Agreed. Lets tell them we'll sell for 1billion dollars. No way they go for that, and we don't look like haters" "Good idea" ... "Guys, they said yes" "Well shit. But at least we'll be rolling in cash" | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 25 2022 22:19 Acrofales wrote: There's one in the Oceania scene (I want to say Probe, but am not sure), but Scarlett is the one that immediately comes to mind... Ontopic: just as I deplore the oil states buying up football clubs, I deplore this as well. But I can't really blame the ESL owners/investors for selling the org for 1billion dollars. It's an absurd amount. I want to think about how that meeting went: "Saudi investors said they are interested in buying ESL" "Errr... no. KSA are awful, and sportswashing their nation with eSports is not something we should support" "Agreed. Lets tell them we'll sell for 1billion dollars. No way they go for that, and we don't look like haters" "Good idea" ... "Guys, they said yes" "Well shit. But at least we'll be rolling in cash" Ah, it seems we have a different view on this. For me if the person finished the transition, then they are no longer transgender, but they are "labeled" by their new gender. So for me Scarlett is just a girl playing SC2. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On January 25 2022 22:27 deacon.frost wrote: Ah, it seems we have a different view on this. For me if the person finished the transition, then they are no longer transgender, but they are "labeled" by their new gender. So for me Scarlett is just a girl playing SC2. Somehow I doubt Saudi Arabian law share your view. With that said, I doubt they will care at all. They own/sponsor plenty of things considered reprehensible according to their national legislation/moral discourse. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 25 2022 22:56 Nakajin wrote: Somehow I doubt Saudi Arabian law share your view. With that said, I doubt they will care at all. They own/sponsor plenty of things considered reprehensible according to their national legislation/moral discourse. Unless they move the finals from Poland to Saudi Arabia  Then it may matter. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3684 Posts
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trinity_law
5 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 26 2022 00:16 trinity_law wrote: ESL is dead, may you never find peace in your human rights violating new country Out of 4 posts 3 are here shitting on ESL. Maybe, just maybe, you want to browse different threads or scream out of a window? Seems like this thread isn't exactly good for you | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
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Shathe
Hungary422 Posts
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
On January 25 2022 22:27 deacon.frost wrote: So for me Scarlett is just a girl playing SC2. Calling a woman in her late 20s a girl is a bit off a stretch and not right. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 26 2022 02:22 Haku wrote: Calling a woman in her late 20s a girl is a bit off a stretch and not right. You can blame my English teachers if you like  Edit> OK, I searched thru google and yea, while inhere it would be fine to call Scarlett girl what I meant was miss/young woman. | ||
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Riner1212
United States337 Posts
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HeroSandro
531 Posts
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Goma
Germany15 Posts
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Vision_
861 Posts
I don t know why Microsoft buy Activision while they just released AoE4, maybe they will entomb SC2 definitively. Or not. But it s sure that SC2 has the best internet platform, engine and editor than any others Esport games could have. Blizzard will be forever the best Team of videos games to me | ||
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
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PPN
France248 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50364 Posts
On January 25 2022 05:46 Waxangel wrote: IEM Katowice? It's IEM Jeddah now expecting a michael cole voice over now. | ||
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tankgirl
Canada421 Posts
There are people starving in the streets and dying from treatable diseases. Wherefore art we as a species? Humanity is going to get everything it deserves. I'm quitting this stupid "entertainment". See you all in hell. | ||
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trinity_law
5 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On January 25 2022 09:20 Waxangel wrote: Well, the 2022/23 EPT plan is already laid out, and SC2 is so minor for ESL I imagine it doesn't affect the operations of the league much at all. I think the way fans will notice it most is if random Saudi ventures (NEOM, etc) become the main sponsors of EPT and are prominently displayed/ads played every break. Mind you, this is just talking about how it might affect ESL SC2 in practical terms, not the underlying issue of principle. Yeah, I think for the most part we will notice nothing different - apart from sponsor mentions maybe. I could imagine that prize pools will spike in some games that the Saudi company cares about. While I don't approve a lot of things concerning the Saudi government, I don't really mind this. I don't mind Russian gamers and companies either, while I don't particularly like their government. | ||
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lechatnoir
386 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 26 2022 16:55 trinity_law wrote: Its a troll account you moron. TL is pathetic with their protection against trolling or spamming. Thats why i shit on you and everyone on this site. Oh noez, what a surprise. The next highly revealing thing - water makes objects wet! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25630 Posts
On January 26 2022 18:47 deacon.frost wrote: Oh noez, what a surprise. The next highly revealing thing - water makes objects wet! It’s especially great because TL is like, extremely stringent on these things and why I find the site tolerable, but trinity law definitely knows what’s going on | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2578 Posts
On January 26 2022 18:09 HolydaKing wrote: Yeah, I think for the most part we will notice nothing different - apart from sponsor mentions maybe. I could imagine that prize pools will spike in some games that the Saudi company cares about. While I don't approve a lot of things concerning the Saudi government, I don't really mind this. I don't mind Russian gamers and companies either, while I don't particularly like their government. The difference here is that the ESL is not just owned by some people who happen to be from Saudi Arabia, it is owned by the government of Saudi Arabia. It's one thing when a gamer happens to come from an authoritarian country, or a company is owned by people who do. It's something else entirely when an actual authoritarian government owns a gaming organization. The gains of ESL, financial and reputational, will now accrue to the rulers of Saudi Arabia, which makes support for ESL indirectly support for that regime. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On January 26 2022 19:46 AmericanUmlaut wrote: The difference here is that the ESL is not just owned by some people who happen to be from Saudi Arabia, it is owned by the government of Saudi Arabia. It's one thing when a gamer happens to come from an authoritarian country, or a company is owned by people who do. It's something else entirely when an actual authoritarian government owns a gaming organization. The gains of ESL, financial and reputational, will now accrue to the rulers of Saudi Arabia, which makes support for ESL indirectly support for that regime. Was thinking exactly the same thing, when I read that Post. Thanks for putting it into words better than I could have done | ||
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J. Corsair
United States470 Posts
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atchosvk
55 Posts
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Antoninus
1 Post
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Cricketer12
United States13977 Posts
On January 26 2022 21:27 Antoninus wrote: They said CSGO was too CT favored but this seems overkill to fix it. Christ | ||
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honorablemacroterran
188 Posts
On January 26 2022 15:06 tankgirl wrote: A billion dollars for some pointless video game for man-children? Tell us how you really feel about Starcraft lol | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On January 26 2022 20:55 atchosvk wrote: 1 Billion is pretty much nothing for such big organization. I can't believe some of you welcome this as a good news.. For a company valued around 120~ million in 2015, 1 billion looks pretty good. | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
On January 26 2022 20:27 J. Corsair wrote: So many pretend to care... Bigger countries that produce far more of your consumer goods do things just as morally objectionable. They have a big red flag, it's just not as hip to speak against what they do publicly. You mean China? Isn't that like one of the most criticized countries? | ||
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honorablemacroterran
188 Posts
I think that Saudi Arabia is highly committed to the way they do things, for a number of reasons, and something a lot bigger than having relatively small investments for them get protested would have to happen to meaningfully change their behavior. On the other hand, ESL will contribute almost nothing to their total wealth because, as I said, it's a relatively small investment. By attacking ESL, though, you can help to kill the esports scene. If you want to stop human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia, freaking out over them owning ESL isn't going to do it. Sorry. Maybe you should consider pressuring your politicians to do something about them. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4731 Posts
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v1p3r52
New Zealand182 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18048 Posts
On January 27 2022 03:39 Silvanel wrote: Many people mention human rights in SA, but there is also the War in Yemen thing. Isn't the whole fanatic theocracy the ground reason for both things? People don't like fanatic theocracies. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2578 Posts
On January 26 2022 20:27 J. Corsair wrote: So many pretend to care... Bigger countries that produce far more of your consumer goods do things just as morally objectionable. They have a big red flag, it's just not as hip to speak against what they do publicly. You're right. No one ever has anything negative to say about China, or expresses concerns about the influence they can purchase with their investments. Good point. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4953 Posts
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EEk1TwEEk
Russian Federation167 Posts
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
On January 28 2022 05:09 EEk1TwEEk wrote: Is this good news or not? We don't actually know yet until they announce their future plans/policies/procedures relating to SC2. Some are saying it's bad because they don't like the questionable practices of the country it's based out of. They're also likely doing that while they navigate with a mouse and keyboard at a desk in their chair while looking at their monitor(s), some or all of which came from a factory in a country not known for its upstanding labor practices. | ||
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tili
United States1332 Posts
On January 25 2022 06:01 luxon wrote: demuslim sweating right now about his handle choice lol Hahaha. this is very funny. That feels like an extremely high valuation, no? | ||
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vyzion
308 Posts
On January 26 2022 20:27 J. Corsair wrote: So many pretend to care... Bigger countries that produce far more of your consumer goods do things just as morally objectionable. They have a big red flag, it's just not as hip to speak against what they do publicly. how dare you question my virtue...signals!! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25630 Posts
On February 02 2022 05:35 vyzion wrote: how dare you question my virtue...signals!! Preferring a big org in one of my main hobbies not being owned by the PFI of Saudi Arabia is virtue signalling nowadays? :S | ||
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Crocolisk Dundee
870 Posts
On January 26 2022 19:46 AmericanUmlaut wrote: ESL is not just owned by some people who happen to be from Saudi Arabia, it is owned by the government of Saudi Arabia. It's one thing when a gamer happens to come from an authoritarian country, or a company is owned by people who do. It's something else entirely when an actual authoritarian government owns a gaming organization. The gains of ESL, financial and reputational, will now accrue to the rulers of Saudi Arabia, which makes support for ESL indirectly support for that regime. On January 26 2022 12:52 PPN wrote: This is very uncomfortable. There are countless reasons I don’t want to support that, the most recent one being Jamal Khashoggi. We are talking about a country that is approving sending a bunch of hitmen to murder a journalist in another country‘s embassy and to cut their corpse down into small pieces to deliver them from the back door. This is beyond barbaric and I don’t want to have that in the back of my mind when I watch Clems, Serral or Reynor doing awesome things. It is not worth it. I agree with this. I can't see myself watching ESL content anymore. | ||
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