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HUGE potential pathfinding issues - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Zanno
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1484 Posts
August 15 2007 20:36 GMT
#41
On August 15 2007 21:34 aka_star wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Path finding is problematic especially in a 3D environment, this is why games like counter strike uses nodes on the map to help bots navigate around because its an extremely difficult task to do. it requires more computations to process where a unit can and can not go in 3D space and how it gets there, in SC it was a relational 2D block algorithm. Where the square the unit occupies is non walk able by other units, simple and works great... for 2D

WC3 being 3D used invisible 3D bounding boxes to help a unit know its place in 3D space, so it could move accordingly over the different height terrain the issue there is that the bounding box could rotate with the unit and if it would touch another unit's bounding box then it would want to separate itself because as pointed out with the tank example spinning around - if they were too clumped together then any rotation of this invisible box would cause a 'hit' to trigger and the unit would have to recalculate how it should move to get to its destination and possibly spin around in frustration when the box just touches slightly. The way around this (how players get surrounds on heros) is to constantly tell units you want it to go HERE and constantly issue the order, slowly the path becomes clear for the unit and it will move as intended.

SC2 is going to focus on height which raises more issues like how does a unit like the colossus find its way around a group of units to move up a cliff? Could it step over them? all or some? Step on them? Then what if another colossus was blocking its path from the top of the cliff, does it wait, move around? What about when the group moves together how does it move in relation to the group? There are many issues for blizzard to consider when programming how a unit interacts with its surroundings.

I'm not convinced we'll see an exact SC1 type pathing due to the nature of the environment but like everyone else I do hope a similar approach could be worked out as WC3 was somewhat annoying having to constantly issue orders to get the units where you wanted them.

I hope this post has pointed out some of the issues blizzard will be considering behind the scenes.
Is that really how it worked? I don't think it did, because you couldn't design a map where 2 ground units could possibly coexist on the same z axis. I'm fairly certain the 3d aspects of war3's gameplay are purely aesthetic
aaaaa
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
August 15 2007 22:09 GMT
#42
One of the main reasons why I hated war 3.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
gentile
Profile Joined August 2007
Switzerland594 Posts
August 15 2007 22:31 GMT
#43
ok, first of all i am pretty sure that this will be very closely overlooked until release, i am confident that pathfinding, formations will be superb as in all blizzard games. you must understand that wc3 is very different from broodwar, controling wise. that you cant put up a "formation" in wc3 does not make the game newbie up at all (well you can toggle it on, but dont do that, its crap), wc3 just plays different, there is no use for formations, like it is in broodwar for closing ramps and so on.. the pathfinding is excellent in wc3, they fixed all the bugs and about the aoe nerf cause of the "pathfinding", thats not true, it simply got nerfed cause it was way too good and made heros even more important then they allready were. hope my english is understandable, dont use it much atm^
Zanno
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1484 Posts
August 15 2007 23:28 GMT
#44
okay I'm going to go edit the OP now ;_;
aaaaa
crazie-penguin
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States1253 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-08-16 03:27:33
August 16 2007 00:34 GMT
#45
Actually dude, you can disable the option in warcraft 3 where the group moves at the pace of hte slowest unit, i forgot which key you were supposed to click though. Let me find the manual.

edit:it should be under "bypassing formations" about 3/4 down the page. You have to hold alt when giving commands. Hmm i think this can even remove the fixed formation the units go into, I'll try to test it later.
http://www.battle.net/war3/basics/specialcommands.shtml

EDIT2: lolololo sry for posting wrong link
Cappy
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada46 Posts
August 16 2007 02:00 GMT
#46
Wow, this is a really valid post. I was surprised. I always KNEW something bugged me with warcraft 3's unit movement, but I never could figure it out explicitly.

Good job for bringing this potential problem out so that blizzard can be aware of it, if they aren't already aware.
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-08-16 02:50:56
August 16 2007 02:49 GMT
#47
On August 16 2007 09:34 crazie-penguin wrote:
Actually dude, you can disable the option in warcraft 3 where the group moves at the pace of hte slowest unit, i forgot which key you were supposed to click though. Let me find the manual.

edit:it should be under "bypassing formations" about 3/4 down the page. You have to hold alt when giving commands. Hmm i think this can even remove the fixed formation the units go into, I'll try to test it later. http://teamliquid.net/forum/edit.php?message_edit_keuze=change&bericht_id=45&topic_id=57970&currentpage=3


link doesn't work
i got a
Do not try to edit other people's messages.
Your ip '___' and nickname ___ are reported to the administrator

err nvm
i thought you were giving the link as to how to bypass the formations
still an interesting error message, haven't seen one of those before
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
crazie-penguin
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States1253 Posts
August 16 2007 03:26 GMT
#48
omfg i posted wrong link xD ROFL
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
August 16 2007 03:40 GMT
#49
wow OMG MY IP GOT REPORTED HELPPP
but thats an interesting part of TL XD ahha
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
August 16 2007 05:08 GMT
#50
I wonder why Warcraft 3 didn't use the same "magic boxes" as SC? Although the formation would break up a bit en route, the units would eventually try to end up in the same formation that they were originally in.

The original post doesn't do a good job of explaining how Warcraft 3 handles this, in my opinion (I've never played Warcraft 3, by the way). Does it try to assign its own formation to the units? If the AI players did that then that would be fine, but I wouldn't want the computer trying to determine my unit formations for me: I would want it to simply maintain whichever formation I had originally.

The only problem I had with the magic boxes was that sometimes they weren't big enough. E.g. if you spread 12 units (e.g. dragoons) out in a long line, they would exceed the size of the box. I wonder: now that we have processors that are more than 30x faster compared to the days of SC1, maybe it would be worth it to implement a slower but smarter algorithm for deciding whether to keep a group of units in the same formation (taking in to account the fact that it would have to work with groups much larger than 12, of course).
brambolius
Profile Joined January 2006
Netherlands448 Posts
August 16 2007 06:26 GMT
#51
OMFG HES RIGHT DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT PLZ SOMEONE

and i mean that....someone really needs to make sure somehow they keep the same "physics"
they had in sc, else NO GOOD, RIOT GEAR
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
August 16 2007 06:35 GMT
#52
Maybe you should post this in the battle.net forum. So Blizzard can say something about it!
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
August 16 2007 10:01 GMT
#53
On August 15 2007 17:41 LosingID8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2007 17:41 x_woof_x wrote:
they should keep pathfinding same as sc1 and have no "stupid" pathfinding units , for example: goliaths
we terran users have no right to complain when protoss have the dragoon


Thank you. That was very kind.

SC1 unit path finding should definitely at least be an 'option' in the game. Keep fancy formation if you want to, but have the options open.

I also like a "lock" position function where you can set up a formation grid and lock it in place so it keeps that formation. It is not auto-formation, but a locked formation that might add greately into gameplay.

FOr instance, you can lock 5 scvs around a marine and attack with that formation grid. Or a wall of medics. The possibilities!
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
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