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NeWHoriZonS
57 Posts
Since the last patch Protoss has won more premier finals against Zerg than vice-versa Trap* not "Protoss" He's litteraly the only Protoss who manage to win premier tournament For Zerg there have been 5 differents players who won a premier in the last few years | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On September 16 2021 17:18 NeWHoriZonS wrote: Trap* not "Protoss" He's litteraly the only Protoss who manage to win premier tournament For Zerg there have been 5 differents players who won a premier in the last few years I get the point, but it's not literally true, as Neeb also won two. Trap beat Zoun, another protoss, in two of those finals. Zest also made the finals of IEM (where he gave, to be blunt, a terrible performance that was read like a book). And the other title contender Protoss, Stats, retired just before the latest patch got rolling. Overall it hardly paints a picture of Protoss struggling at the highest level. Trap is doing a lot better than other Protoss, but other Protoss (Zoun, Parting and Zest) are still reaching finals and semis in the big KR / International tournaments. | ||
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Bomzj
Belarus24 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On September 16 2021 18:15 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: I get the point, but it's not literally true, as Neeb also won two. Trap beat Zoun, another protoss, in two of those finals. Zest also made the finals of IEM (where he gave, to be blunt, a terrible performance that was read like a book). And the other title contender Protoss, Stats, retired just before the latest patch got rolling. Overall it hardly paints a picture of Protoss struggling at the highest level. Trap is doing a lot better than other Protoss, but other Protoss (Zoun, Parting and Zest) are still reaching finals and semis in the big KR / International tournaments. A lot of what you write has some merrit to it. Pretending that Neebs wins have any meaning, if you re looking at the very top of SC2 is quite questionable though. This makes it look like you just try to tell a story and are looking for everything, that fits your narrative here. | ||
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Prolet
United States37 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On September 16 2021 20:30 dbRic1203 wrote: A lot of what you write has some merrit to it. Pretending that Neebs wins have any meaning, if you re looking at the very top of SC2 is quite questionable though. This makes it look like you just try to tell a story and are looking for everything, that fits your narrative here. I only mentioned Neeb's wins because the person I was replying to said "He's litteraly the only Protoss who manage to win premier tournament". Which is false (unless litteraly means something other than `literally'  )Hence the wording of my response, that I do get the point but that it's not literally true. And it's not hard to tell the story that Protoss is doing fine at the highest level, because they have literally had as many premier wins as the other two races combined (partly because RIP Terran to be fair). What other story could you possibly support given that information?? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27480 Posts
On September 16 2021 18:58 Bomzj wrote: Funny thing that Serral changed his control groups radically and now they resemble Reynor's ones: 1-all hatcheries, 2-early scout/army, 3-queens early, 4 - army and etc. Before he has all hatcheries on "3". Did he find imba control groups like Reynor did? I’m intrigued as to why he made those changes, maybe inject cycles? I just personally like to have army and production as discrete sides of my hotkeys, so up to a point everything left of a key = army and everything right = production. Whatever the reason it seems rather effective. Serral strikes me as the kind to make little tweaks here and there that pay off through time, so he must have some reason. He doesn’t strike me as someone who blindly copies something if he doesn’t think there’s a sound reason that it’s a better way to go. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7460 Posts
On September 17 2021 00:59 HolydaKing wrote: Nice catch that he changed control groups, I imagine that's a huuuge deal for players. He probably took quite a while to get used to it, but it seemed to work well for him this tournament. Reminds me of me changing my crosshair in CSGO to that of S1mple :D Now I feel invincible. Reynor changing the control group meta... that kid can do it all | ||
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Tommy131313
Germany157 Posts
 Congratz on that well deserved title! | ||
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Tommy131313
Germany157 Posts
On September 16 2021 17:18 NeWHoriZonS wrote: Trap* not "Protoss" He's litteraly the only Protoss who manage to win premier tournament For Zerg there have been 5 differents players who won a premier in the last few years Well, looking at Asus ROG Qualifiers certainly makes me wonder of the imba dominance of z over p... | ||
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Drahkn
201 Posts
On September 16 2021 15:57 bela.mervado wrote: maybe it's time to admit that this Serral dude is so fucking good enjoy your P/T v P/T s on ladder as there are practically no zergs left to pick up on anything Serral is really good but he is not a god tier above his piers, he performs like a god in one matchup specificly and that is ZVP, so yeah sorry but you make no valid point to me. | ||
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Drahkn
201 Posts
On September 16 2021 16:48 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Since the last patch Protoss has won more premier finals against Zerg than vice-versa, and there have been 2 PvP finals. I promise you, Zerg knew about making lots of queens in that time. Hmm is this true? The only Protoss to win a tournaments is Trap and you must be talking about 2021 because 2020 was a even worse time for protoss. In 2021 so far Trap won 3 BO7 vs zergs and he won them all 4-3, one of them vs Solar in a tournament I would not put as a premier tournament, and they were extremely close, the last two finals he got destroyed by Zergs Dark and Serral 4-1 and 4-0. Reynor beat Zest 4-2 in 2021 in the IEM Katowice world finals ( biggest tournament we have). So you have bad data, but that does not even matter because the results over the entire lifespan of sc2 and this latest patch has been zerg domination over protoss at the highest levels of play, Protoss will win a tournament every now and then but it remains T and Z dominated. Especially the major premier tournaments with the most prestige. But its just sad to see the most skilled player in sc2 atm can not get consistent results because of the race he plays. Trap in my opinion is the best player in the world easily. Protoss has yet to win one of the major premier tournaments for years now, they only win smaller premier tournaments. Remember this post when you will see Zerg dominate in the near future unless Maru steps up it will be Zerg domination from here on out. The only way Protoss will do well I think is if Protosses can dodge enough Zergs and Terran eliminates them and we get PVTs. As for Queens, you are most likely talking about queen walks , Serral uses queens more defensively to easily get to a good spot in any ZVP because he can hold anything even with bad late scouting. Other Zergs have used them for all inns which has sometimes cost them games because they mess up the attack. This will sound arrogant but I don't think you have the game understanding to see what I see. To understand balance you must put yourself in the position of the players understand the matchup and the thought process and understand each race and their capabilities. I don't make these opinions based on what most of you people base balance on, you just feel like it looks OP and make a statement. I can tell you the reason Serral is so consistent in ZVP, Serral is good at scouting vs Protoss in general, he is very good at reading Protoss builds. But a lot of his games he scouts things to late, does not scout at all or scout gets shut down. I have seen him caught with his pants down by super commited 3 base allinns from protoss which are more 2 base tbh. Queens buy him the time he needs to get out enough units to hold, while he has overdroned heavily but because queens cost no larvae it is not a problem. Queens are OP because he does not have to respect P builds and not be greedy he can be greedy and hold any all inn with minimal scouting. This is why queens are OP and this is why Serral is so dominant in the matchup. He knows the power of defensive queens and constant scouting. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27480 Posts
On September 25 2021 20:16 Drahkn wrote: Serral is really good but he is not a god tier above his piers, he performs like a god in one matchup specificly and that is ZVP, so yeah sorry but you make no valid point to me. Maybe not a tier above but he’s one of the top Zergs in all three matchups. His vZ isn’t untouchable like in 2018 but he’s still up there and his vT is bloody excellent too. It’s only really Maru and Clem for the last period that give him consistent beatings there. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4300 Posts
sick play-off run GGs WP | ||
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