Near the end when they introduce the 3 ghosts, they didn't have to clone to snipe, or clone to launch 3 droppods.
For anyone that doesn't know what cloning is, its using shift + click on the unit portraits of a group to spread the use of its special abilities quickly. Imagine selecting all 12 sci vessels and casting irridiate all at once.
In the video it seems like that special abilities can be auto split depending on how many there are in the group. In this case 3 ghosts mean you can hit "S" for snipe and can then just click on 3 targets. You can also hit "C" to call down drop ships and then it automatically queues up 3 seperate call commands for each ghost. I'm guessing now we can see 12 battlecruiser fights to turn into 12 fast yamato cannon -> normal fire and so on.
Personally I think cloning adds a factor of skill to the game, this would just make 12 sci vessel irridiate seem much less impressive, or 12 ghost lockdown unimpressive.(Not saying that sc2 has sci vessels or lockdown)
There is a degree of smart cloning in BW for example darchons with mind control. For high speed mass mind control you don't need to queue. Simply hold shift and tell them all to mind control each of the targets and they work it out themselves. I see no reason why they'd not extend this to other units, it would just be simplification of the interface.
On August 06 2007 17:20 Kwark wrote: There is a degree of smart cloning in BW for example darchons with mind control. For high speed mass mind control you don't need to queue. Simply hold shift and tell them all to mind control each of the targets and they work it out themselves. I see no reason why they'd not extend this to other units, it would just be simplification of the interface.
I think DA is a special case because it the other 11 archons cannot mind control something that is already controlled, then it skips to its next target. I think every other spell would stack all on one if you use shift+click.
I think this smart( or easy) cloning mode is probably a nice thing for all the wc3 players, since smart cloning was part of wc3. But psy storms will be made so much easier to use, even for nubs. I'm afraid this will make micro of that sort less important, and maybe even the game too easy to master, thus not as interesting as it could be.
Ugh, why don't we all walk around with our hands tied behind our backs? This will only make it so the pros can pull more spectacular moves. I think SC is a far superior game to WC3 but I hate it when people bash on improvements from the WC3 interface just because they got used to the "skill" of having to wrangle with the SC interface.
I'm a wc3 player so I'd prefer an improved interface I don't think it will make pros make more spectacular moves, it will make the spectacular moves more common as it will be easier to do.
It'd would make 6 irradiates less impressive, but 12 or 18 would still demand a lot of hand speed.
There will always be difficult moves to pull of. The interface is still not perfect in the sence that all units are doing exactly what you want at all times. The difference is that the wow-moves that the pros will pull of will be even more spectacular, and just as impossible for us mortals! I expect the pros to invent micro-stunts that noone else can pull of. after all, that is what they are (will be) payed for, right? That is at least what I think, and hope.
There is a certain amount of appreciation when watching Boxer lock down 10 carriers so fluidly, knowing that only a pro can execute it so proficiently. There is also a certain amount of pride you have when you perfectly execute a complicated micro/clone/cast moment. Now that everyone who picks up the game at future shop can go home ad perform that, really irks me. I've been as optimistic as anyone about SC2, but I keep hearing how easy macro is now, it just bothers me. People with 80 apm will have just as much control as Nada if they make the game too easy. Now Micro is super easy? Starting to get uncomfortable.
Different skill sets will adapt from the interface improvements. I wouldn't worry about them. An example: while before it was amazing to be able to use all your templars storms really quickly and accurately now it will be expected and the gosus will be able to do this while multitasking a drop or something like this. I wouldn't worry about interface improvements for the most part. As long as they don't go overboard and take control out the players hand completely. That was probably really awkardly written
Its really nice in wc3 how with a group of raiders to ensnare all u do is hit e click for each one while selecting the whole group. Now the fast become faster, the micro stars no longer lack in units, and the macro gorillas hardly look away from their army.
Im willing to be one of the first to stand up and say: A + click will wither and die in sc2
On August 06 2007 17:56 MindpLay- wrote: I don't think it will make pros make more spectacular moves, it will make the spectacular moves more common as it will be easier to do.
And therefore no longer spectacular, just standard.
If you go out and watch a warcraft 3 match, youll note that nothing is spectacular. This is due to a few reasons, however one of them is due to the fact that spellcasting was made very easy in that game due to the smartcasting system.
I believe that its very important for people to easily distinguish between a good player and a great player just by watching them play. Its what makes spectator sports soo interesting. Seeing things that you know that you couldnt possibly pull off yourself is what makes spectator sports. With the new smartcasting system, we will see mass destruction of units, however it wont be as spectacular due to the fact that the move itself wasnt very hard to execute in the first place.
EDIT: This is a common video floating around the net, however it shows exactly what I mean. Im not a street fighter player, but I can tell this is really hard to pull off and the crowds reaction is what spectator games are all about.
On August 06 2007 17:56 MindpLay- wrote: I don't think it will make pros make more spectacular moves, it will make the spectacular moves more common as it will be easier to do.
And therefore no longer spectacular, just standard.
If you go out and watch a warcraft 3 match, youll note that nothing is spectacular. This is due to a few reasons, however one of them is due to the fact that spellcasting was made very easy in that game due to the smartcasting system.
I believe that its very important for people to easily distinguish between a good player and a great player just by watching them play. Its what makes spectator sports soo interesting. Seeing things that you know that you couldnt possibly pull off yourself is what makes spectator sports. With the new smartcasting system, we will see mass destruction of units, however it wont be as spectacular due to the fact that the move itself wasnt very hard to execute in the first place.
EDIT: This is a common video floating around the net, however it shows exactly what I mean. Im not a street fighter player, but I can tell this is really hard to pull off and the crowds reaction is what spectator games are all about.
On August 06 2007 17:20 Kwark wrote: There is a degree of smart cloning in BW for example darchons with mind control. For high speed mass mind control you don't need to queue. Simply hold shift and tell them all to mind control each of the targets and they work it out themselves. I see no reason why they'd not extend this to other units, it would just be simplification of the interface.
Well i don't think that is intentionally made "smart" but it is because mind control cannot work on your own units so by definition mind control has to be one unit per spell cast because the additional MC on already MCed unit will be counted as null.
But I'd like to see some smart cloning, it sounds great. Now you can just hold down this one key and put in repetitive commands and see them clone.
For instance, you select 10 marines. Then you hold down "c" key for Clone, then you spam click 10 places on the map, release "c" key, and the units will walk to those 10 diff spots. would be cool
On August 06 2007 19:08 oshibori_probe wrote: Autoclone rocks
Its really nice in wc3 how with a group of raiders to ensnare all u do is hit e click for each one while selecting the whole group. Now the fast become faster, the micro stars no longer lack in units, and the macro gorillas hardly look away from their army.
Im willing to be one of the first to stand up and say: A + click will wither and die in sc2
well then theres gonna be no differnece between 'micro stars' and 'macro gorillas' then
On August 06 2007 19:29 Fen wrote: And therefore no longer spectacular, just standard.
If you go out and watch a warcraft 3 match, youll note that nothing is spectacular. This is due to a few reasons, however one of them is due to the fact that spellcasting was made very easy in that game due to the smartcasting system.
I believe that its very important for people to easily distinguish between a good player and a great player just by watching them play. Its what makes spectator sports soo interesting. Seeing things that you know that you couldnt possibly pull off yourself is what makes spectator sports. With the new smartcasting system, we will see mass destruction of units, however it wont be as spectacular due to the fact that the move itself wasnt very hard to execute in the first place.
EDIT: This is a common video floating around the net, however it shows exactly what I mean. Im not a street fighter player, but I can tell this is really hard to pull off and the crowds reaction is what spectator games are all about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtuA5we0RZU
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I AM LIMING THIS ENTIRE POST. I AGREE WITH IT THAT MUCH.
On August 06 2007 20:20 fusionsdf wrote: On August 06 2007 19:29 Fen wrote: And therefore no longer spectacular, just standard.
If you go out and watch a warcraft 3 match, youll note that nothing is spectacular. This is due to a few reasons, however one of them is due to the fact that spellcasting was made very easy in that game due to the smartcasting system.
I believe that its very important for people to easily distinguish between a good player and a great player just by watching them play. Its what makes spectator sports soo interesting. Seeing things that you know that you couldnt possibly pull off yourself is what makes spectator sports. With the new smartcasting system, we will see mass destruction of units, however it wont be as spectacular due to the fact that the move itself wasnt very hard to execute in the first place.
EDIT: This is a common video floating around the net, however it shows exactly what I mean. Im not a street fighter player, but I can tell this is really hard to pull off and the crowds reaction is what spectator games are all about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtuA5we0RZU
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I AM LIMING THIS ENTIRE POST. I AGREE WITH IT THAT MUCH.
I've played both sc and wc3, although im much better at wc3 i still prefer watching sc vods since the pro moves are so much cooler and the game so much more exciting. I have about 220 apm and i can pull off almost all the same moves as pros, and believe me, im not that good.
With sc wich i have been playing a lot more lately (with sc2 announced) , i noticed that things i saw on vods were almost impossible for me ever to understand how they could possible pull thing like that off.
SC is harder wich makes more room for spectacular moves, with sc2 looking more like wc3 AOE spellwise, im affraid it WILL be less spectactular. Though I have a lot of faith in blizzard, I still fear that balancing the interface will be hard.
EPT
