EPTi almost forgot that idra played in it.
And it's so amazing that taeja, maru and byun who played in this, are still playing today.
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Kaizor
Singapore909 Posts
i almost forgot that idra played in it. And it's so amazing that taeja, maru and byun who played in this, are still playing today. | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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Comedy
461 Posts
On September 29 2020 22:41 SamirDuran wrote: tasteless looks really passionate in that video. back then tasteless (everyone really) still had hope that sc2 would be as good as bw thanks for this thread, loved watching that again lol | ||
zatic
Zurich15355 Posts
And holy shit these maps were bad hahaha. Fucking desert oasis. OMG and second series Artosis calls the "zatic build" from Maka <3 | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Vision_
870 Posts
On September 29 2020 23:37 zatic wrote: Unbelievable how slow and ... bad WoL was hahaha. How did I enjoy this game so immensely in 2010? And holy shit these maps were bad hahaha. Fucking desert oasis. OMG and second series Artosis calls the "zatic build" from Maka <3 Maybe it s also unbelievable to take two gas without thinking in LotV | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
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Chemist391
United States366 Posts
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
They themselves would have been casting and observing either from their own, or the other's screen. That was probably just a prolonged moment of one watching the other's screen and forgetting his was the broadcast PC. The big screen in the studio would have been from the Korean observer's perspective and in-studio cameras to show audience members, like when the crowd cheers for MM, but the foreign broadcast is watching an AFK observer. All I can say is I'm glad they decided to switch over to the Korean observer screen eventually. | ||
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ytherik
199 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 30 2020 04:59 phodacbiet wrote: Man, I forgot how slow WoL was. Say what you will about LotV, the sped up version is 1000x better than Wol's iteration. I wonder if SC2 would still be big in korea if lotv was the iteration we got instead of wol. Granted players now are so much better than they were back then. Too fast, IMO hots was the best considering the speed of the game. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
On September 30 2020 04:59 deacon.frost wrote: Is the little cute Maru inside or not? This is the one you want. EDIT: HOLY CHECK! | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 30 2020 05:56 dUTtrOACh wrote: This is the one you want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8VN6Dd6oNs EDIT: HOLY CHECK! Yay, Maru! Thanks. | ||
Highwinds
Canada955 Posts
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On September 30 2020 09:27 Highwinds wrote: I remember watching these live. No twitch chat so everyone spammed these team liquid threads as if it was twitch chat There used to be 15-20 pages of pre-show material pretty regularly. opterown, Lorning, Shellshock, and Darkhorse put together some incredible LR threads. | ||
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Also guys to be fair these are early WoL matches. Very early. Look at matches in 2011 or 2012 and you'll se more difference. For example, the legendary MVP vs NesTea BlizzCon finals on shakuras plateu. Or also MMA vs DRG in the same map at the Blizzard Cup finals (one of the best games ever). You can see some difference, like very little creep spread (though to be fair it used to spread slower and people didn't build 10 queens at the time). But the game is much more dinamic and closer to what we have today, compared to the literal first season of GSL. | ||
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ssg
United States1774 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10682 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6992 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 30 2020 11:38 ssg wrote: What level ladder player today would win gsl 2010? Above masters, everything bellow doesn't have the mechanics. e.g. Idra, not the best player, was able to play without any substantial supply blocks. This is nearly impossible for any diamond player NOW. While it looks rough the players actually had solid mechanics. They were lost in the game(I mean c'mon, high ground warping?) or maps(hey, look at me, i am in your base with marauders before you can build stalkers! and I have concussive shells already! (that's a beta build, but still )) but mechanically they would be comparable to m2/m1 players nowadays. Strategy/tactics of LotV is a different thing. | ||
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Kotreb
Croatia1392 Posts
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
On September 30 2020 17:23 deacon.frost wrote: Above masters, everything bellow doesn't have the mechanics. e.g. Idra, not the best player, was able to play without any substantial supply blocks. This is nearly impossible for any diamond player NOW. While it looks rough the players actually had solid mechanics. They were lost in the game(I mean c'mon, high ground warping?) or maps(hey, look at me, i am in your base with marauders before you can build stalkers! and I have concussive shells already! (that's a beta build, but still )) but mechanically they would be comparable to m2/m1 players nowadays. Strategy/tactics of LotV is a different thing.Yeah the players look a lot worse than they actually are due to the meta forcing one base builds due to awful maps and broken rushes (hello proxy 2 rax) at the time. If you're some random Master 3 player and think you have better mechanics than 2010 IdrA or NaDa you are out of your goddamn mind. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15355 Posts
The biggest factor are the godawful maps that just force the game to be terrible and slow no matter the player. | ||
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Vision_
870 Posts
On September 30 2020 20:27 zatic wrote: That being said you can spot a lot of things that today even a mid Dia player would do better. The A-moving of baneling and marine-marauder into each other was painful to watch. The biggest factor are the godawful maps that just force the game to be terrible and slow no matter the player. You have just the feeling that the game is faster... In reality the only thing faster is the build process; indeed timings attacks aren t faster in LotV than WoL, in other term, if you found annoying SC2 at the beginning of a game in WoL, you find it annoying now as well. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 30 2020 20:27 zatic wrote: That being said you can spot a lot of things that today even a mid Dia player would do better. The A-moving of baneling and marine-marauder into each other was painful to watch. And the point that dia players today are getting supply blocked is off too. There is way more shit going on in a dia ladder game today than in those Ro64 games in 2010. The biggest factor are the godawful maps that just force the game to be terrible and slow no matter the player. Well, you don't watch Winter's angry coaching videos, do you? Anyway, sure, the diamond player will execute the attack better. At the same time he's not producing anything, building anything nor starting anything(upgrades, hello?) When some say, that you can get to masters with anything as long as your mechanics are on point, it means mostly don't get supply blocked, expand at the right time, build the right units and have the proper eco(e.g. don't build 3rd and 4th extractor on 40 drones) There isn't that much more going on in Diamond. Trust me, my Protoss is diamond, my Zerg is diamond and it gets really bad when my Random chooses Terran(barely plat ). In the first 5 minutes I can get supply blocked when all that was happening was a scouting scv | ||
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UncleClimax
18 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
Nonetheless, my experience as a BW player is that people almost invariably underestimate how good esports pros are. People think they can beat pros as long as the pro is using a very suboptimal opening. In my honest opinion, I think high master to lowest GM level is like 1800-2050 mmr (let's say roughly 1900 on average). I don't really know but that is my hunch based on some players I know in BW who came from SC2. I am not insulting them, as I consider 1900 mmr to be pretty good. Rather, I am using this to make a point. I'm also not trying to say SC2 is easier than BW. At non-pro level I do think so but I think SC2 is probably around as high level as BW at pro level. In reality for BW, a 300-400 mmr gap is usually sufficient for the stronger player to do "clown builds" on their opponent (eg, mass scout PvZ, vulture-wraith against protoss, mass hydra against terran) and win like 50/50. The amazing thing is that this phenomenon seems to persist even in higher mmr (although I'll admit the gap probably needs to be somewhat bigger for the :"clown builds" to work). For example, a 2200 mmr player can beat a 1900 mmr player with mass scout PvZ and a 2700 player (basically pro) can likely do the same to a 2200 mmr player. So basically a BW pro can clown on a player who can clown on a BW player with roughly high master or low GM skill level. In fairness, I only started watching SC2 since Legacy of the Void but it would shock me if top players were truly that low skill back then that they would lose to Diamond/Master level. Anyway, I get they were lower skill than kespa players but it can't be THAT low. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
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Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
I've always loved this <3 On September 30 2020 20:27 zatic wrote: That being said you can spot a lot of things that today even a mid Dia player would do better. The A-moving of baneling and marine-marauder into each other was painful to watch. And the point that dia players today are getting supply blocked is off too. There is way more shit going on in a dia ladder game today than in those Ro64 games in 2010. The biggest factor are the godawful maps that just force the game to be terrible and slow no matter the player. I remember at the time thinking how bad those maps were going to look in a few years and I'd say that more or less held true, I think at one point Blizzard said something about how they released it with simple/small maps to keep things easier to approach for new players? But man Dessert Oasis and Blistering Sands.. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
That heavy thor composition should have worked if not for that balance patch. It was reverted almost immediately, but it really did screw TOP. He played a hell of a series. EDIT: Other than that one series, Fruitdealer was definitely operating with a very shitty version of Zerg and an absolutely atrocious map pool. | ||
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