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On June 29 2020 17:59 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2020 17:53 LennX wrote:
I'm confused at South West Asia being a place and thus asking for clarification.
There is no such region of "South West Asia". Such a place is as real as Atlantis. Unless you consider the tiny islands between Australia and Madagascar to be that.
Imo, there needs to be more clarity with future DH events that involves the SEA/Oceanic region. It's pretty clearly laid out in the rulebook, where they've sub-divided the various world regions for the sake of server selection. The rules are actually QUITE clear. What the vocal group of Australian nationals are saying is that they think the rules are bad  https://eslgfx.net/media/lo/ESL_Pro_Tour_SC2-Structure_Regulations.pdf• OC (Oceania): Australia, New Zealand and Oceania • CN (China): Mainland China • NEA (North-East Asia): Japan, Korea, Mongolia • SWA (South-West Asia): All Asian countries that extend further west than the western-most part of India • SEA (South-East Asia): Rest of Asia (including India) • EUE (Europe East): All European countries that do not extend further west than the western-most part of Poland • EUW (Europe West): Rest of Europe • AF (Africa): All African countries • LA: All American countries except USA and Canada • NAC (North America Central): Manitoba, Ontario, Saskatchewan (Canada) & Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Texas, Wisconsin (USA) • NAE (North America East): East of those • NAW (North America West): West of those
Got it. Thanks!
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On June 29 2020 18:56 fastr wrote:
I based my earlier post on the wrong assumption that Risky was playing his matchs on the AU server. While I maintain that it's wrong to blame anyone for benefiting from the advantages of dual citizenship, I agree that we can and should examine the current rules and make necessary changes if the situation seems unfair.
In that case I do empathize with AU players having to play on a shitty server because of one particular and complex case.
If it were up to me, Risky would have to play on AU since he voluntarily decided to play on this region despite the distance, but I understand that it could create a dangerous precedent in different circumstances.
I mean, Singapore is still meant to be better for Australians. It should be 70-100 ping vs 200, then we have normal cross server rules playing "fairest ping" for these online events, which is how its basically done for any other region. But the problem is Singapore is problematic for a bunch of people so they get worse ping than they should?
RiSky also played Singapore vs Blysk, who is from Singapore, so is the issue not just that there are too many regions lumped into this one region?
Idk I'm a bit biased because RiSky is my friend, but trying to take the bias out of it the current rules make sense from a tournament organizers point of view.
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A few things i want to clear up:
I did express to the admins that i thought seithers "lul" was bad mannered and unsportsmanlike when they brought it up in our group chat (they didn't seem to be quite clear on whether it was BM or not) but i wouldn't say i "complained to them", i didn't go out of my way to get seither "punished" or anything like that.
i didn't "force" singapore, they never asked to play any other servers / i made sure they were okay with playing singapore.
they never played on 300-400 ping to singapore, if they did get a bad singapore server they immediately rehosted and the ping returned to the normal 50-110ms range.
I played on a consistent 180-210 ping throughout the tournament.
As to whether it's fair that they only get a 100-150 ping advantage, that's down to personal opinion. I believe it's absolutely correct that i should get some disadvantage for playing in a region that i don't reside in, that makes sense. As to how much of a disadvantage? not sure, if australia was the only server i could play on that would be a 350-400 ping to 0 disadvantage. is that fair? i don't know, it's up to ESL to decide.
I also would like to comment on "contributing to the scene":
I tried to contribute to the ANZ scene. I played in some leagues and a teamleague for the region and spent quite a bit of my own money to travel to the offline finals of that team league and an offline tournament. At this tournament i was told straight to my face that they hated me. To be clear, some people were nice, and i appreciate those people for being welcoming (they know who they are), but the majority obviously didn't want me there, and didn't make much effort to hide it.
After the offline tournament, they said that i just came to the event to "steal more of their money" even though the event most likely was going to be a loss for me financially. Going into the event i was expecting to lose money on it, i went anyway because i wanted to reach out and try and be part of the scene i was competing in.
They have never asked me for practice, i even extended an offer to them for practice but of course, they never contacted me. Whenever anyone in the scene has messaged me asking for advice i have always given them as much as i could.
So what am i meant to do? i've made the effort and it's been rejected.
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On June 29 2020 20:37 RiSkysc2 wrote:
i didn't "force" singapore, they never asked to play any other servers / i made sure they were okay with playing singapore.
By choosing SWA as your "out of region" sub-region, you are ONLY playing SG server, with no exceptions or server swapping.
The whole "sub-region" rulings are nuts for a region as diverse and large as SEA (RiSky situation notwithstanding), with rules that can be abused in other situations to disadvantage the regional players.
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On June 29 2020 20:37 RiSkysc2 wrote:
A few things i want to clear up:
I did express to the admins that i thought seithers "lul" was bad mannered and unsportsmanlike when they brought it up in our group chat (they didn't seem to be quite clear on whether it was BM or not) but i wouldn't say i "complained to them", i didn't go out of my way to get seither "punished" or anything like that.
i didn't "force" singapore, they never asked to play any other servers / i made sure they were okay with playing singapore.
they never played on 300-400 ping to singapore, if they did get a bad singapore server they immediately rehosted and the ping returned to the normal 50-110ms range.
I played on a consistent 180-210 ping throughout the tournament.
As to whether it's fair that they only get a 100-150 ping advantage, that's down to personal opinion. I believe it's absolutely correct that i should get some disadvantage for playing in a region that i don't reside in, that makes sense. As to how much of a disadvantage? not sure, if australia was the only server i could play on that would be a 350-400 ping to 0 disadvantage. is that fair? i don't know, it's up to ESL to decide.
I also would like to comment on "contributing to the scene":
I tried to contribute to the ANZ scene. I played in some leagues and a teamleague for the region and spent quite a bit of my own money to travel to the offline finals of that team league and an offline tournament. At this tournament i was told straight to my face that they hated me. To be clear, some people were nice, and i appreciate those people for being welcoming (they know who they are), but the majority obviously didn't want me there, and didn't make much effort to hide it.
After the offline tournament, they said that i just came to the event to "steal more of their money" even though the event most likely was going to be a loss for me financially. Going into the event i was expecting to lose money on it, i went anyway because i wanted to reach out and try and be part of the scene i was competing in.
They have never asked me for practice, i even extended an offer to them for practice but of course, they never contacted me. Whenever anyone in the scene has messaged me asking for advice i have always given them as much as i could.
So what am i meant to do? i've made the effort and it's been rejected.
I like you Risky, when I had twitter i hearted everything you posted and believe you're doing nothing wrong.
I don't think it's a coincidence Probe, which looks like a really decent guy, gg wp you at the end of the match.
Just that, i think you could use a bit of support. Have a nice week.
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On June 29 2020 20:37 RiSkysc2 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
A few things i want to clear up:
I did express to the admins that i thought seithers "lul" was bad mannered and unsportsmanlike when they brought it up in our group chat (they didn't seem to be quite clear on whether it was BM or not) but i wouldn't say i "complained to them", i didn't go out of my way to get seither "punished" or anything like that.
i didn't "force" singapore, they never asked to play any other servers / i made sure they were okay with playing singapore.
they never played on 300-400 ping to singapore, if they did get a bad singapore server they immediately rehosted and the ping returned to the normal 50-110ms range.
I played on a consistent 180-210 ping throughout the tournament.
As to whether it's fair that they only get a 100-150 ping advantage, that's down to personal opinion. I believe it's absolutely correct that i should get some disadvantage for playing in a region that i don't reside in, that makes sense. As to how much of a disadvantage? not sure, if australia was the only server i could play on that would be a 350-400 ping to 0 disadvantage. is that fair? i don't know, it's up to ESL to decide.
I also would like to comment on "contributing to the scene":
I tried to contribute to the ANZ scene. I played in some leagues and a teamleague for the region and spent quite a bit of my own money to travel to the offline finals of that team league and an offline tournament. At this tournament i was told straight to my face that they hated me. To be clear, some people were nice, and i appreciate those people for being welcoming (they know who they are), but the majority obviously didn't want me there, and didn't make much effort to hide it.
After the offline tournament, they said that i just came to the event to "steal more of their money" even though the event most likely was going to be a loss for me financially. Going into the event i was expecting to lose money on it, i went anyway because i wanted to reach out and try and be part of the scene i was competing in.
They have never asked me for practice, i even extended an offer to them for practice but of course, they never contacted me. Whenever anyone in the scene has messaged me asking for advice i have always given them as much as i could.
So what am i meant to do? i've made the effort and it's been rejected.
Thank you for clearing things up. I believe you did nothing wrong.
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On June 29 2020 16:56 RPR_Tempest wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2020 16:52 GTR wrote:
Speaking of people living here and playing in the ANZ tournaments... what happened to ButAlways? He dominated the scene for that brief period of six months where he was here studying then just disappeared? It happened before with Pigeon, a Chinese player literally nobody had ever heard of who did really well in an ACL, vanished for a year, came to another ACL, won it, then disappeared again.
He was still in aus as of late 2018, I caught up with him at Huts lan in Sydney, he said he doesn't play anymore but still watches the pro stuff
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If you have citizenship you can represent that country. End of story.
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Whether he can represent that country isn't the question. The question is whether it is fair for the matches to be played on the Singapore server, which due to cable damage between Aus and Singapore often causes severe ping issues and spikes for Aussies and with ~100-150 ping vs 250 ping, on the Australia servers which have 400 ping vs 40 ping, or US West servers which would have fairly even ping without the spikes for Aussie players.
My opinion, personally, is that the matches should just be played on the Aus servers - Risky is choosing to play in a region across the world rather than the region he is in, because the competition isn't as stiff. He is a citizen of NZ, so I have no issue with him being allowed to play, but I do have a problem with both players having a disadvantage because Risky made that decision. To me, the Singapore servers with the ping spikes for Aussie players is completely unfair, and in practice ends up putting Aus players at a *disadvantage*, which is absolute bullshit for them. I've seen a lot of Aussie players saying that US West would be fine for them with even ping, so if that's okay with them, it's okay with me. I just think that the current situation is completely unfair to the Aussie players and needs changes.
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On June 29 2020 15:05 Waxangel wrote:
However, I don't recall there being a player in RiSKy's specific situation, of using dual citizenship to compete in a region where they did not reside, and being good enough to immediately become the #1 player of that region.
WESG and Stephano !
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On August 05 2020 21:23 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2020 15:05 Waxangel wrote:
However, I don't recall there being a player in RiSKy's specific situation, of using dual citizenship to compete in a region where they did not reside, and being good enough to immediately become the #1 player of that region. WESG and Stephano !
Heromarine as well iirc?
WESG was full of "abuse" regarding the nationality rule.
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On August 05 2020 21:44 imre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2020 21:23 DieuCure wrote:On June 29 2020 15:05 Waxangel wrote:
However, I don't recall there being a player in RiSKy's specific situation, of using dual citizenship to compete in a region where they did not reside, and being good enough to immediately become the #1 player of that region. WESG and Stephano ! Heromarine as well iirc? WESG was full of "abuse" regarding the nationality rule.
Yeah, he played for Italy in the pre-Reynor era I think.
Also there are going to be more Players with dual citizenship playing the RoA/Oceania Section of DH:
and appearently also Teebul:
Edited the OP with that
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On June 29 2020 17:53 LennX wrote:
I'm confused at South West Asia being a place and thus asking for clarification.
There is no such region of "South West Asia". Such a place is as real as Atlantis. Unless you consider the tiny islands between Australia and Madagascar to be that.
Imo, there needs to be more clarity with future DH events that involves the SEA/Oceanic region.
Does this help?
+ Show Spoiler +
While there are things that, from some perspectives, may be more South and more West than Southwest Asia, that does not preclude its existence. Similarly, you would not say "There is no Southern United States, such a place is as real as Hogwarts, unless you consider Mexico to be that."
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United States33475 Posts
Just lower the points/prize money of OCE until equilibrium point is reached so the 40th-50th ranked EU players stop trying to get in; problem solved without affecting the top 4 players of LATAM or NA 
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It's all British players too. The sun truly never sets on the British Empire.
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Can someone remind me who risky is again?
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France12904 Posts
People wanted a villain in sc2, they have it. Playing zerg and stealing Australian players money by forcing them to play on a bad server, while training in Europe with good ping!
I feel for those players but the main problem are the rules that allow this.
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I think Risky didn't do anything wrong, however I think the rules for regional tournaments/qualifiers should generally be designed to support regional players more. Same with the weekly ESL cups. Somehow it doesn't feel right to see EU/KR players winning most AM cups for example.
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Dude has an NZ citizenship, this is literally a non-issue.
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On August 06 2020 00:57 SpaceBoar wrote:
I think Risky didn't do anything wrong, however I think the rules for regional tournaments/qualifiers should generally be designed to support regional players more. Same with the weekly ESL cups. Somehow it doesn't feel right to see EU/KR players winning most AM cups for example.
The weeklys are actually Server bound to Na, Eu and Kr respectivly.
And Risky (and Teebul and Razerblader) are going to Play on Singapure Server, wich is part of the Rest of Asia/ Oceania region
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/33Wy4YV.png)
