EPTIf you’re interested in trying it out you can find it here. I may decide to shut it down if it gets too toxic so enjoy it while you can.
Cheers.
TCGM - A bot to combat backseat gaming
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
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feardragon
United States970 Posts
If you’re interested in trying it out you can find it here. I may decide to shut it down if it gets too toxic so enjoy it while you can. Cheers. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Diamond protoss or terran in chat explaining how game balance works is a plague. Balance whining even looks good on paper *theorycraft chat*, and it's only in actual games where maybe the right comp doesn't come early enough, or you end up not having enough minerals/gas to hit the proposed timing or defense. It's the player that play it at the top level that have meaning behind their words. Ideas together with execution. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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alpenrahm
Germany628 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Jealous
10108 Posts
This is a brilliant idea. Anyone who says otherwise is an underappreciated strategic genius who would be GM if they only had more APM/time to play. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
And it's not because you are GM that you're balance whine is more legitimate, Contentgaga for example. That's just a terrible idea, imagine if TL.net had to ban every single account under 199th' GM mmr in "In defense of the Widow Mine" post just because, you know, you can't talk about widow mines since you are not GM. It's a really bad, insecure and childish idea in my opinion. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On May 19 2020 01:58 ZigguratOfUr wrote: There's certainly potential for misuse there, but it's quite a nice concept. The natural follow-up would be to mute people until they provide their sc2replaystats to prove they aren't a mech player. I feel attacked. What do you have against Mech players? It's not that I don't UNDERSTAND how to play Bio, I just have more success with Mech since I don't have the ridiculous fucking speed required to play Bio effectively. | ||
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XaMaXaM
Germany113 Posts
Is this really your solution? | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Like any tool, this would be vulnerable to abuse, as is true with streamers that are too itchy on the ban button, period. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On May 19 2020 06:02 Vindicare605 wrote: I just have more success with Mech since I don't have the ridiculous fucking speed required to play Bio effectively. That's why. Mech is generally easier to play than bio, which is why most bio players are upset when they lose to mech, I guess, because most of the time they're mechanically superior, but less used to certain types of situations, like when you're facing a canon rush as Z for example. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On May 19 2020 06:21 Danglars wrote: Just use it sparingly to make people stop the “trust me, I’m masters, and my opening destroys it.” Like any tool, this would be vulnerable to abuse, as is true with streamers that are too itchy on the ban button, period. Streamers like that are only hurting themselves since it hurts their viewer numbers. It's in a streamer's best interest not to abuse these tools. Some do anyway but hey, hurting themselves. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On May 19 2020 06:30 DieuCure wrote: That's why. Mech is generally easier to play than bio, which is why most bio players are upset when they lose to mech, I guess, because most of the time they're mechanically superior, but less used to certain types of situations, like when you're facing a canon rush as Z for example. I don't get this argument at all especially in TvT. If I'm meching, I'm pretty much yielding tempo and map control to the Bio player, I do my best to put what pressure I can but Bio has the advantage there. If they can't take proper advantage of that before I move out and crush them then that's their problem not mine. Also, nothing stopping people from playing Mech in TvT if they think it's easier, same reason I don't go late game vs Protoss if I can avoid it. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On May 19 2020 06:40 DieuCure wrote: It's easier but annoying to play for a lot of T players, you tell it yourself, you get better results playing because you are not fast enough to keep the pace with bio. Like, a diamond could easily get a much higher mmr spamming 4rax but it's just annoying, and we are playing a game, and in this game, most of terrans get fun playing bio, I didn't say there is something wrong playing mech, just that it's an heterodox terran playstyle that is good up to a certain level, and it's obvious that some people have more fun in mech than in bio, Avilo is a nice example. Don't misunderstand me, when I say I don't have the speed, I mean SPECIFICALLY against Zerg. Against Protoss I mostly use Marine/Tank timings, and if it does go Late Game I do play Bio/Ghost/Viking like everyone else. I just don't open straight Bio comps. Against other Terrans honestly most of those matches are over in the early or midgame due to whose opener does what. I honestly only get to play late game mech like I want to in like 25% of my games if that. The only match up that you could say I'm exclusively a Mech player is TvZ. I can't do all of the drop harass and marine splitting shit without suffering hard on my macro. but yea Bio vs Zerg? Fuck that. Too hard to play, Zerg can just a-move Banelings and I lose. I'd rather take my chances with Mech and make them beat me other ways. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On May 19 2020 07:01 Vindicare605 wrote: I'd rather take my chances with Mech and make them beat me other ways. Well, I would go for the same answer then, but TvT -> TvZ, you play mech because it's the easiest way, and it can annoy people, it's not that hard to understand. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On May 19 2020 07:05 DieuCure wrote: Well, I would go for the same answer then, but TvT -> TvZ, you play mech because it's the easiest way, and it can annoy people, it's not that hard to understand. I don't see how they can possibly be annoyed honestly. Why do Protoss players use Storm? That's fucking annoying, but it's effective so they do it. Why do Zergs use Swarm Hosts? That's annoying, they shouldn't play that way! People that get annoyed with people for playing an effective style honestly have the wrong attitude. Starcraft is great partly because there's so many different ways and styles to play. The game would be super boring if there was only ONE way to play each match up. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 19 2020 06:02 Vindicare605 wrote: I feel attacked. What do you have against Mech players? It's not that I don't UNDERSTAND how to play Bio, I just have more success with Mech since I don't have the ridiculous fucking speed required to play Bio effectively. I was half joking. I was a reference to the at least handful of low GM mech exclusive players who have some truly myopic opinions about balance and the game. As an aside the comment: "It's not that I don't UNDERSTAND how to play [...]. I don't have the ridiculous fucking speed required" is truly the crux of the whole backseat gaming debate. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On May 19 2020 07:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I was half joking. I was a reference to the at least handful of low GM mech exclusive players who have some truly myopic opinions about balance and the game. As an aside the comment: "It's not that I don't UNDERSTAND how to play [...]. I don't have the ridiculous fucking speed required" is truly the crux of the whole backseat gaming debate. Ah in that case you could have answered with a one word answer: avilo. He makes the rest of us look bad. | ||
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Jealous
10108 Posts
Maybe if you're trash at the game and have garbage understanding you shouldn't speak with authority about the game's balance? Just a thought. For example, there are two ways to go about an issue. Let's say you struggle against BattleCruiser rush because you're bad. You can either have the humility necessary to say, "hey, I'm really bad and what are the basic things I can do to stop dying to quick BattleCruisers?" Or you can say "BCs are bullshit unit please nerf game is literally unplayable omgbbq." At that point, using MMR as a measurement by which to determine whether the person's opinions have merit is actually just a formality instead of some oppressive maneuvre that insidiously silences players just below some cut-off. Can this feature be abused? Sure. But if my understanding is correct, it simply gives context for whatever drivel is being spilt out of uneducated mouths. A kindergartner crying about math being too hard should not be given equal platform in a discussion about calculus. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 19 2020 07:53 Vindicare605 wrote: Ah in that case you could have answered with a one word answer: avilo. He makes the rest of us look bad. Well it's not just avilo, though obviously he's a prime example of that. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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Jealous
10108 Posts
On May 19 2020 12:58 brickrd wrote: imagine getting angry about the idea of not being able to tell superior players how they should play on their own streams Sadly that is the entitled environment that we live in on the internet. | ||
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On May 19 2020 12:58 brickrd wrote: imagine getting angry about the idea of not being able to tell superior players how they should play on their own streams Also imagine getting angry on a project, wich is most likely just some messing around on Feardragons side. If you watched his other rediculus projects like hands free SC2 or the clap bot, you know, that he just likes coding rediculus bots for SC2. | ||
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stilt
France2746 Posts
 Anyway I don't think it will be very useful, the majority of sc2 streamers have a very good levels, they are pro or close to this level which makes the backseat gaming very bad regardless of the mmr. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On May 19 2020 07:56 Jealous wrote: "MMR shaming" oh lawd Maybe if you're trash at the game and have garbage understanding you shouldn't speak with authority about the game's balance? Just a thought. For example, there are two ways to go about an issue. Let's say you struggle against BattleCruiser rush because you're bad. You can either have the humility necessary to say, "hey, I'm really bad and what are the basic things I can do to stop dying to quick BattleCruisers?" Or you can say "BCs are bullshit unit please nerf game is literally unplayable omgbbq." At that point, using MMR as a measurement by which to determine whether the person's opinions have merit is actually just a formality instead of some oppressive maneuvre that insidiously silences players just below some cut-off. Can this feature be abused? Sure. But if my understanding is correct, it simply gives context for whatever drivel is being spilt out of uneducated mouths. A kindergartner crying about math being too hard should not be given equal platform in a discussion about calculus. There are genuinly people who are good at understanding the game yet they don't have the mechanics. This doesn't apply to everyone but these people exist. This tool is a great idea to be used against really stupid things (hey, my 4 rax 2 facs 3 startport opening from 1 base rox!!!!) but it can be abused against a good idea because why not? There's a reason why many people avoid bnet because many legitimate replies are ignored because of - oh, but you're not GM, GTFO. While "it will only hurt streamers" applies, does it though? Considering how popular is the Angry Coach from Winter, I genuinly doubt that. (nothing against that, I enjoy it too )e.g. #1 - I know what's the proper response to the widow mine drop, yet I cannot pull the probes on time. e.g. #2 - I know that I can load templars into the prism to avoid EMP yet it's easier for me to make more templars, space them out because it's less APM heavy. (FYI I don't watch streams on Twitch(like any) and I watch only GSL live, so it doesn't affect me )Your example with math is bad, as there's no mechanical barrier to practice it while SC2 has this mechanical barrier. Which is true and which is why it's misused by so many Replace SC2 with physics and imagine Stephen Hawking not getting from Bronze and thus being disqualified from discussion because he's too slow in doing stuff while he's one of the greatest minds in thinking stuff. (eh, probably not a great example either)Like I know where this tool comes from and I honestly believe it will be abused by some people. (I have my guesses) Just my 2c, the only SC2 content I watch is the Youtube of Winter and AfreecaTV, so for all I care abuse it ad infinitum | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On May 19 2020 16:39 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote: this seems like the most precious snowflake starcraft idea ever ??? the snowflakes are the low level players who can't handle being told to shut up | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On May 19 2020 20:22 brickrd wrote: ??? the snowflakes are the low level players who can't handle being told to shut up Or are the snowflakes the streamers who can't handle their audience? I wonder why not directly give mutes/bans instead of MMR shaming Why is this solution so much better as this requires the response anyway. | ||
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feardragon
United States970 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19214 Posts
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WhiteSPiriT
France19 Posts
Bronze mechanics Sure buddy  | ||
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Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
On May 19 2020 22:51 feardragon wrote: I’m enjoying reading the many dumb responses overreacting to a dumb meme I made. Please continue to explain to me how I’m a snowflake. I’m listening, really. It's the perfect meme for this crowd, as we can see from the responses | ||
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