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On May 11 2020 18:03 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2020 17:33 BerserkSword wrote:On May 11 2020 16:15 deacon.frost wrote:On May 11 2020 05:38 BerserkSword wrote:On May 11 2020 01:46 deacon.frost wrote:
So, with Stats out and his army nigh, we just lost 3 top protoss players with no replacement. Protoss entusiasts have hard seasons in front of them(herO, Classic, Stats) The seasons were probably hard enough even with them. The last time a Protoss player won a Code S was over 3 years ago. We had finalists, Classic, Stats or Zest. It's not like Protoss cannot reach finals, it's more about winning it. Issue is we just lost 2 top S players and 1 who could have gone there had he wanted(herO) Which is big because unless Dear finds his long lost mojo and Trap finds out how to play PvZ there's nobody who can replace Classic or Stats. I don't think sOs will ever go back to his HotS levels. Edit: it's like losing Maru, Inno and TY in 2 consecutive seasons.(more or less) I'd assume that protoss enthusiasts would care about protoss players winning finals instead of nonstop losing to terran and zerg players in code S finals for over 3 years lol. The New York Knicks losing every finals I've seen them play in in didnt make it easy for me to be a Knicks fan lol But yea I agree - losing those 4 are huge as they are the only ones who won any kind of GSL event in LotV. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2020 16:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
Well Protoss would have a better chance of winning a finals if they'd run up against someone other than Maru. You can blame Maru for Protoss not winning a finals in several years. This is not true. Since protoss last code S win, Protoss players HAVE went up against someone other than maru. Innovation, Maru, Rogue, and Dark have all beaten protoss players in the Code S finals since the race's Code S win On May 11 2020 16:01 Vindicare605 wrote:
Considering he couldn't even qualify for TSL.... yea I wouldn't hang on to hope of his being the Protoss hope for the world. Yea neeb isnt looking too hot this year. It's possible that it's just a temporary slump though, especially since he's young. In 2018 he was a code S quarterfinalist I'm just throwing out names of possible protoss talent for the future lol. They truly are taking a huge hit in terms of elite talen t The thing is that before the Protoss had a chance. While losing to the best who are currently on fire all the time is painful to watch(Especially when Maru was on fire), at least they got to the finals and had a chance. Now we have to hope that Trap won't meet Zerg on the way or that Dear will finally make it. Protoss fans are left exactly with 2 players unless I am missing anyone. Compare this with Classic or the usual Stats(this year Stats made some unusual plays which may be connected with his military departure, or meta not good for him as somebody already mentioned).
Oh yea I definitely agree that it will be worse for protoss enthusiasts after stats and zest leave. no doubt about it in my mind
On May 11 2020 18:04 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2020 17:51 BerserkSword wrote:On May 11 2020 17:43 Vindicare605 wrote:On May 11 2020 17:33 BerserkSword wrote:On May 11 2020 16:15 deacon.frost wrote:On May 11 2020 05:38 BerserkSword wrote:On May 11 2020 01:46 deacon.frost wrote:
So, with Stats out and his army nigh, we just lost 3 top protoss players with no replacement. Protoss entusiasts have hard seasons in front of them(herO, Classic, Stats) The seasons were probably hard enough even with them. The last time a Protoss player won a Code S was over 3 years ago. We had finalists, Classic, Stats or Zest. It's not like Protoss cannot reach finals, it's more about winning it. Issue is we just lost 2 top S players and 1 who could have gone there had he wanted(herO) Which is big because unless Dear finds his long lost mojo and Trap finds out how to play PvZ there's nobody who can replace Classic or Stats. I don't think sOs will ever go back to his HotS levels. Edit: it's like losing Maru, Inno and TY in 2 consecutive seasons.(more or less) I'd assume that protoss enthusiasts would care about protoss players winning finals instead of nonstop losing to terran and zerg players in code S finals for over 3 years lol. The New York Knicks losing every finals I've seen them play in in didnt make it easy for me to be a Knicks fan lol But yea I agree - losing those 4 are huge as they are the only ones who won any kind of GSL event in LotV. On May 11 2020 16:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
Well Protoss would have a better chance of winning a finals if they'd run up against someone other than Maru. You can blame Maru for Protoss not winning a finals in several years. This is just wrong. Since protoss last code S win, Protoss players HAVE went up against someone other than maru. Innovation, Maru, Rogue, and Dark have all beaten protoss players in the Code S finals since the race's Code S win Of the players you've listed, I can't name a Protoss that is objectively, definitively better than any of them. If the best in the world is who is holding Protoss back, I can't think that's a bad thing. Well whether or not the Protoss GOATs are simply "objectively, definitively" worse than their Terran and Zerg counterparts is a completely different conversation, one that I won't partake in here. I wasn't comparing Protoss legends to Terran and Zerg legends. I was just having a discussion about how hard Protoss enthusiasts might have been having it and might continue to have it in the future. We don't need to have that particular conversation, we just need to ask a simple question. Do you believe that any of the above results were a result of racial imbalance?
You already know what my answer to that is. You can stop trying to bait me
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I 'd love to hear your reasoning though, I think it would be enlightening for all of the people that read these threads.
If you don't want to though I can understand.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On May 11 2020 18:29 Vindicare605 wrote:
I 'd love to hear your reasoning though, I think it would be enlightening for all of the people that read these threads.
If you don't want to though I can understand.
IMO it doesn't matter. if we don't have enough good P players for over a long time Blizzard will have to react anyway.
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True enough. If it's worth anything I've made posts talking about how and why Protoss should be buffed on reddit and on b.net.
I just dont like the idea of dismissing the wins of Dark, Maru or Rogue because of racial imbalance. If you're gonna make that argument I want to see some specifics, that's all.
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i mean tournament after tournament the statistics are showing the same result where protoss is not performing as well as the other 2 races. as long as i remember the pattern has been. protoss finds something to abuse, wins for a bit. players figure it out pvx win rate goes down. there is a patch. protoss finds something new to abuse rinse repeat. Consistency seems to be the bane of protoss pro players.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On May 11 2020 19:20 SwiftRH wrote:
i mean tournament after tournament the statistics are showing the same result where protoss is not performing as well as the other 2 races. as long as i remember the pattern has been. protoss finds something to abuse, wins for a bit. players figure it out pvx win rate goes down. there is a patch. protoss finds something new to abuse rinse repeat. Consistency seems to be the bane of protoss pro players.
Can you like provide some numbers?
What you can provide to show this:
- prize money per race (the last time I checked the order was Z, P, T)
- links to the said statistics
Like, you know, cite the sources.
Let's check it for 2 years:
Premier tournaments quick sum up of victors and runner ups for 2019 and 2018:
2018: 6T, 12P,12Z
2019: 5T, 7P, 20Z
If something, these numebrs show Terrans are struggling.
Linkz:  Premier Tournaments
Edit> I may have missed some considering I am working and did this really fast.
Edit2> we can add 2020: 1T, 1P, 2Z. So far the trend of Zerg supreme overlords while the other 2 races trail behind seems to stick to this year but that's 2 tourneys with most of the top players representation so it's questionable at best. I don't have the time to go through RO8+ which would be more telling)
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There is no way Dark and Rogue are objectively above Zest, Stats, sOs and the rest of the Protoss gang when we consider their career; they are in the same tier.
Nobody could ever say Maru's victories are due to racial imbalance; if anything, he seems stronger when Terran is weak. The same can't be said of Rogue and Dark.
In 2018, balance was quite good for Protoss but no player could match Serral and Maru who singlehandedly kept denying Protoss finals; Stats was very close but ultimately fell short to his tendency of losing finals.
In 2019, Protoss had a brief moment in which they appeared op being ahead of the meta with Warp Prism/Immortals abuse and people reacted savegely and constantly whining, resulting in (over)nerfs of the race.
After that, ZvP became the least balanced matchup in the game and, paired with the very good shape of a good number of top tier Zerg, which lead to the Swarm onslaught so many like to complain about.
Protoss is looking like the weakest race in 2020(low PvZ win ratio, struggling in online tournaments; did fine in Katowice, to be honest) and buffs are on the way.
What's worrying, tho, is that so many top Protoss have retired or are going to(Zest will follow Stats) and the new Protoss talents don't seem to be as promising or as mature as their Terran or Zerg counterpart.
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Barracks float is great. If you don't like that, you are not a true starcraft fan. Barracks float is a BoxeR homebrew.
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Weavel Profile PM Joined January 2010 Finland8903 Posts
May 09 2020 15:55 EDT #6
TY vs Stats saved this group from utter boredom.
Vindicare605 Profile Blog PM Joined August 2011 United States12527 Posts
May 09 2020 17:59 EDT #12
What an awful group to watch. The two players advanced who I thought were going to advance, but it wasn't fun to watch. Didn't at all live up to the group of death moniker that people were giving it.
Tbh I am totally digging all the wonky quick games; this round has been absolutely silly in them. My least fav matchup of the round so far was the painfully standard Dark vs Taeja series. All the other games have been a jolly good time!
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BisuDagger Profile Blog PM Joined October 2009 Bisutopia17400 Posts
21 hours ago #32
On May 11 2020 10:58 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
Show nested quote +
You get banned for stating your opinion?
Unfortunately seeing the ban text doesn't tell the whole story. This person, in particular, has been warned 4 times and banned twice for posts with very blatant balance whining. This ban is a culmination of the user's posting history and not just this post.
And thank you for the context on this, I was wondering the same thing myself.
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TY vs Dark in Ro8. Again and always in a rivalry 
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On May 12 2020 15:46 Veluvian wrote:TY vs Dark in Ro8. Again and always in a rivalry
What's the word for when a rivalry is disgustingly one-sided?
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On May 12 2020 20:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2020 15:46 Veluvian wrote:TY vs Dark in Ro8. Again and always in a rivalry What's the word for when a rivalry is disgustingly one-sided?
One sided?
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The TY proxy 4 rax was awesome! The rest of the games weren't very exciting for the hype this group had. It's been a fun GSL so far though.
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On May 11 2020 19:30 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2020 19:20 SwiftRH wrote:
i mean tournament after tournament the statistics are showing the same result where protoss is not performing as well as the other 2 races. as long as i remember the pattern has been. protoss finds something to abuse, wins for a bit. players figure it out pvx win rate goes down. there is a patch. protoss finds something new to abuse rinse repeat. Consistency seems to be the bane of protoss pro players. Can you like provide some numbers? What you can provide to show this: - prize money per race (the last time I checked the order was Z, P, T) - links to the said statistics Like, you know, cite the sources. Let's check it for 2 years: Premier tournaments quick sum up of victors and runner ups for 2019 and 2018: 2018: 6T, 12P,12Z 2019: 5T, 7P, 20Z If something, these numebrs show Terrans are struggling. Linkz: Premier TournamentsEdit> I may have missed some considering I am working and did this really fast. Edit2> we can add 2020: 1T, 1P, 2Z. So far the trend of Zerg supreme overlords while the other 2 races trail behind seems to stick to this year but that's 2 tourneys with most of the top players representation so it's questionable at best. I don't have the time to go through RO8+ which would be more telling)
yeah protoss has not won a trournament since way before zealot nerf 9 months now?. and its never the same toss winning while terran and zerg have consistent players winning. current gsl protoss is least represented. Protoss just seems to be struggling the most atm.
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EPT
