• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:20
CEST 07:20
KST 14:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes71BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch2Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
Soulkey on ASL S20 ASL20 General Discussion BW General Discussion ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D NaDa's Body
Tourneys
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2312 users

Inject v extra base which gives you more minerals?

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
BabelFish1
Profile Joined September 2015
186 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-10 02:56:23
October 10 2019 02:37 GMT
#1
I don't even know where to begin in order to calculate this but what I want to do is figure out which gives the most minerals;

Creating a second hatchery and continuously producing Drones or building a queen and waiting for Inject to finish before creating an explosion of drones.

I suspect that while Inject gives more larvae than a second hatchery, creating drones for the entire time Inject cycle and drone production time lasts leads to significantly more minerals in the bank.

Now you're probably asking "Why would you worry about such an odd thing...Queens are just...better" and while I normally agree there is one build in ZvP which may be the exception and that's 12 pool expand with an extractor trick to get out the 6 lings. In this build you double expand, skip queens until your 4th and rely entirely on constant drone production generating minerals rather than waiting for Inject to finish to get an explosion of drones.

Whenever I play normally I often notice that my expands are much more sluggish and my bank doesn't increase nearly as fast but this is just anecdotal evidence.

Can someone please help me figure out how many minerals you get by using a hatchery for drone production, constantly making drones as larvae appear vs the minerals you get from using Inject for drone production in say, 29+36+12=77 seconds? The 77 seconds is reflective of the Queen build time, the Inject duration and the Drone build time?
pzlama333
Profile Joined April 2013
United States277 Posts
October 10 2019 03:01 GMT
#2
Hatchery cost 350, spawns one larva every 15 seconds. Max: 3 without inject. It takes 100 seconds to build a hatchery.
Queen cost 150, 50 seconds. Injecting larva will create 3 larva every 40 second. Hatchery can store as many as 19 larva with injecting.
2 drones per mineral patch give 78-90 mineral per minute based on mineral distance. 3 drones give 102 mineral per minute per patch. One base has 8 mineral patches.
Basic math.
BabelFish1
Profile Joined September 2015
186 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-10 03:47:23
October 10 2019 03:21 GMT
#3
On October 10 2019 12:01 pzlama333 wrote:
Hatchery cost 350, spawns one larva every 15 seconds. Max: 3 without inject. It takes 100 seconds to build a hatchery.
Queen cost 150, 50 seconds. Injecting larva will create 3 larva every 40 second. Hatchery can store as many as 19 larva with injecting.
2 drones per mineral patch give 78-90 mineral per minute based on mineral distance. 3 drones give 102 mineral per minute per patch. One base has 8 mineral patches.
Basic math.


That doesn't account for 1/2 the important variables here. Thank you for the effort but I might need another user with a better understanding of the situation.

Specifically, you list a lot of variables that have no play here or aren't framed with proper context. Like A Hatcheries build time doesn't matter as much because the minerals you gain can be used to build another hatchery, well before you'd build one with a Queen.

It's hardly basic math when you have compounding variables so I ask you to keep the snark to yourself. TY.
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6259 Posts
October 10 2019 04:36 GMT
#4
I think the best way to approach this problem is to just do the builds yourself and then compare the amount of minerals at the end. I think trying to do maths on this would be too difficult.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
October 10 2019 05:21 GMT
#5
i'm not against you exploring the math and getting your answer, but how are you going 12 pool double expand with no queens and not getting torched by a zealot/2 adept counterattack?
TL+ Member
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-10 05:29:22
October 10 2019 05:28 GMT
#6
Ironically enough, 12pool is the one ZvP build where you should 2 base, so you can defend your bases with 3 queens and slowlings.
If you double expand after 12pool and don't lose the game to an adept counter, your opponent has done something wrong.

Not to mention that queens are necessary as anti your mobile anti-air.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
October 10 2019 07:23 GMT
#7
I think something is off if you can double expand after 12 pool and not die. By the time the adepts get to your base, you'll have around what... 22-24 drones, and 6 slow lings with no queens? Yeah that's insta death.

Not sure if I understand you correctly, but are you asking if we can just hatch everytime instead of getting the queen? So say, instead of 2 base 2 queens, you're thinking of 3 hatch 1 queen? There is a build for that. It's a bit of a gamble though because you'll be open to a lot of early aggro builds . But I think anymore than three hatch open any you'll be super open. As you expand, you'll have more bases to defend, and without queens and being capped for larva, you'll bank more mineral, sure, but you won't be able to spend it.

With the standard 17 pool -> hatch or 16/17 hatch opening, you'll have enough money to build queens AND to drone at the same time. So you will be able to spend all your larva and build up minerals. Without queens, your hatches will cap out at 3 larva since they stop naturally producing, so it doesn't matter if you make more minerals if you can't spend it. It's not just a balance of mineral, but you have to factor in larva as a resource as well.
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6259 Posts
October 10 2019 07:50 GMT
#8
I can see all the advantages of queens but in reality, what is the question in the OP? It's to compare which build produces more minerals, extra hatch vs queen.

We all can come up with math but I think the best way is to simply perform both builds over and over and then compare which comes out ahead.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 40m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft651
Nina 141
ProTech0
StarCraft: Brood War
PianO 751
soO 43
Noble 39
Sacsri 23
JulyZerg 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
HiyA 13
SilentControl 9
Icarus 7
League of Legends
JimRising 649
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv1372
Stewie2K453
Coldzera 201
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King62
Other Games
summit1g7558
C9.Mang0374
ViBE169
Hui .120
NeuroSwarm73
RuFF_SC238
Trikslyr30
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH289
• Sammyuel 12
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1000
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
4h 40m
Zoun vs Classic
Map Test Tournament
5h 40m
Korean StarCraft League
21h 40m
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 4h
Reynor vs Cure
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.