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On August 06 2018 02:02 sneakyfox wrote:
Very impressive by Serral. This proves that he is on the same level as the top Koreans, truly significant for a foreigner. But he has definitely NOT proved that he is the best in the world. One premier tournament does not do that. It is ridiculous to hold Serral to a different standard than other top (Korean) players.
Also, this was not GSL! No more than the Super Tournaments are (which, by the way, are more competitive than this was).
It is quite ironic that TL, which recently complained about overhyping by casters, would write these things.
People are just too excited which is fully understandable since Serral has made history here by becoming the first ever foreigner to contest for the BEST player in the world title. Unlike Neeb (poor guy people almost forgot him)he didn't just win a premier tournament on Korean soil but did so by beating the best Korean players from all 3 races in convincing fashion (in straight-up macro games).
I do feel tho he's being overrated by some people right now, we can say he's at the SAME level as top Koreans, but saying he's already better than them is going too far. It's only one tournament, Korean players haven't given him full attention yet and Stats came very close to beating him. Personally I'd rather view him as just one of the world's top players (along with Stats, Maru, Rogue etc.). Foreigner bias and Korean elitism are both harmful attitudes.
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On August 06 2018 02:13 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 01:55 Fango wrote:On August 06 2018 01:13 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 01:08 Fango wrote:
Is there a case for Stats being a kong now? No I dunno. He's lost to literally everyone who isn't known for choking in finals. So there's only people who are kongs and people who aren't kongs and there's literally nothing in-between? Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 02:13 Fango wrote:
And it's literally liquipedia's fault that people call this a GSL.. Afreeca literally called Inno's GSL vs the World win a GSL title last year so don't blame Liquipedia.
Did they? Well They didn't give him a pin and when he loads into GSL games he has 3 gold medals under his name. So I'm suprised at that, although they likely put GSL on every event to attract attention anyway.
As far as Kongs go, I just think it's funny how Stats has a similar number of second places/ro4 finishes to guys like soO and Dark. With his only actual wins being when he meets them in finals and they characteristically underperformed.
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Winning an invitational and being non-korean is more skilled than winning 2 GSLs and a WESG while being korean guys! Dont you see?
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I was a Serral skeptic in terms of comparing him to top Koreans, but not anymore. I don't know if I'd call him the best player in the world, but he's up there in my opinion.
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Korea (South)157 Posts
Well, one things certain; Serral has certainly silenced all the doubters who said he could NEVER match up to top level Koreans. But another thing is also certain; Serral is now undoubtedly on the warning radar for Koreans, who will DEFINITELY prepare harder next time they meet. So its all up in the sky as to whether Serral will continue to thrash koreans with ease or if he'll have a tougher mountain to climb next time. Lets just wait and see 
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Congrats to Serral!
Wish it was Maru vs Serral strictly because of how much more entertaining ZvT is than ZvP
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On August 06 2018 02:16 yht9657 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 02:02 sneakyfox wrote:
Very impressive by Serral. This proves that he is on the same level as the top Koreans, truly significant for a foreigner. But he has definitely NOT proved that he is the best in the world. One premier tournament does not do that. It is ridiculous to hold Serral to a different standard than other top (Korean) players.
Also, this was not GSL! No more than the Super Tournaments are (which, by the way, are more competitive than this was).
It is quite ironic that TL, which recently complained about overhyping by casters, would write these things. People are just too excited which is fully understandable since Serral has made history here by becoming the first ever foreigner to contest for the BEST player in the world title. Unlike Neeb (poor guy people almost forgot him)he didn't just win a premier tournament on Korean soil but did so by beating the best Korean players from all 3 races in convincing fashion (in straight-up macro games). I do feel tho he's being overrated by some people right now, we can say he's at the SAME level as top Koreans, but saying he's already better than them is going too far. It's only one tournament, Korean players haven't given him full attention yet and Stats came very close to beating him. Personally I'd rather view him as just one of the world's top players (along with Stats, Maru, Rogue etc.). Foreigner bias and Korean elitism are both harmful attitudes.
SC2 is not consistent enough for there to ever be a top player but Serral is indisputably top tier.
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On August 06 2018 02:21 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 02:13 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 01:55 Fango wrote:On August 06 2018 01:13 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 01:08 Fango wrote:
Is there a case for Stats being a kong now? No I dunno. He's lost to literally everyone who isn't known for choking in finals. So there's only people who are kongs and people who aren't kongs and there's literally nothing in-between? On August 06 2018 02:13 Fango wrote:
And it's literally liquipedia's fault that people call this a GSL.. Afreeca literally called Inno's GSL vs the World win a GSL title last year so don't blame Liquipedia. Did they? Well They didn't give him a pin and when he loads into GSL games he has 3 gold medals under his name. So I'm suprised at that, although they likely put GSL on every event to attract attention anyway. As far as Kongs go, I just think it's funny how Stats has a similar number of second places/ro4 finishes to guys like soO and Dark. With his only actual wins being when he meets them in finals and they characteristically underperformed.
Stats has less 2nd places in his entire career than soO has just in GSL. And if we start using the term Kong this loosely we may as well start with sOs and his stellar 0/2 record in GSL finals.
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On August 06 2018 02:39 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 02:21 Fango wrote:On August 06 2018 02:13 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 01:55 Fango wrote:On August 06 2018 01:13 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 01:08 Fango wrote:
Is there a case for Stats being a kong now? No I dunno. He's lost to literally everyone who isn't known for choking in finals. So there's only people who are kongs and people who aren't kongs and there's literally nothing in-between? On August 06 2018 02:13 Fango wrote:
And it's literally liquipedia's fault that people call this a GSL.. Afreeca literally called Inno's GSL vs the World win a GSL title last year so don't blame Liquipedia. Did they? Well They didn't give him a pin and when he loads into GSL games he has 3 gold medals under his name. So I'm suprised at that, although they likely put GSL on every event to attract attention anyway. As far as Kongs go, I just think it's funny how Stats has a similar number of second places/ro4 finishes to guys like soO and Dark. With his only actual wins being when he meets them in finals and they characteristically underperformed. Stats has less 2nd places in his entire career than soO has just in GSL. And if we start using the term Kong this loosely we may as well start with sOs and his stellar 0/2 record in GSL finals.
How many losses to do need? People called MKP, Dream, ByuL etc kongs. Stats has 5 losses and 10 ro4 finishes. A lot of them being matches he was favoured to win.
I just feel like if Stats didn't win those finals against soO and Dark (the pair who choke almost every time including those against Stats), he'd be well established as a kong.
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On August 06 2018 02:43 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 02:39 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 02:21 Fango wrote:On August 06 2018 02:13 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 01:55 Fango wrote:On August 06 2018 01:13 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 01:08 Fango wrote:
Is there a case for Stats being a kong now? No I dunno. He's lost to literally everyone who isn't known for choking in finals. So there's only people who are kongs and people who aren't kongs and there's literally nothing in-between? On August 06 2018 02:13 Fango wrote:
And it's literally liquipedia's fault that people call this a GSL.. Afreeca literally called Inno's GSL vs the World win a GSL title last year so don't blame Liquipedia. Did they? Well They didn't give him a pin and when he loads into GSL games he has 3 gold medals under his name. So I'm suprised at that, although they likely put GSL on every event to attract attention anyway. As far as Kongs go, I just think it's funny how Stats has a similar number of second places/ro4 finishes to guys like soO and Dark. With his only actual wins being when he meets them in finals and they characteristically underperformed. Stats has less 2nd places in his entire career than soO has just in GSL. And if we start using the term Kong this loosely we may as well start with sOs and his stellar 0/2 record in GSL finals. How many losses to do need? People called MKP, Dream, ByuL etc kongs. Stats has 5 losses and 10 ro4 finishes. A lot of them being matches he was favoured to win. I just feel like if Stats didn't win those finals against soO and Dark (the pair who choke almost every time including those against Stats), he'd be well established as a kong.
The original definition of a Kong is someone who gets 2nd places in Starleagues but can win weekend tournaments (AKA YellOw). Stats absolutely doesn't fit this definition, not one bit.
Dream and ByuL didn't win a single tournament, only 2nd places, and MarineKing won weekenders while getting 2nd places in GSL. They fit a lot better.
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Big congrats to Serral! Whatever the future may bring, Serral has certainly left his mark in 2018 so far and will always be considered one of the best foreigners in SC2 because of that.
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On July 16 2018 00:10 AgonySC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2018 19:38 Gurbak wrote:On July 15 2018 17:45 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
i am scared to think that if Serral wins Montreal he'll set the bar for best foreigner on unreachable level. only if he can win tournaments with koreans like stephano Yep. Winning tournaments in which Koreans are banned means nothing. He won all these foreigner tourneys yet didnt win IEM or WECG... surprise surprise. Casters hype him up so much, wonder what they'll say when hes swept at GSL vs The World.
I'm literally smiling so much now.
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On August 06 2018 02:46 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 02:43 Fango wrote:On August 06 2018 02:39 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 02:21 Fango wrote:On August 06 2018 02:13 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 01:55 Fango wrote:On August 06 2018 01:13 Elentos wrote:On August 06 2018 01:08 Fango wrote:
Is there a case for Stats being a kong now? No I dunno. He's lost to literally everyone who isn't known for choking in finals. So there's only people who are kongs and people who aren't kongs and there's literally nothing in-between? On August 06 2018 02:13 Fango wrote:
And it's literally liquipedia's fault that people call this a GSL.. Afreeca literally called Inno's GSL vs the World win a GSL title last year so don't blame Liquipedia. Did they? Well They didn't give him a pin and when he loads into GSL games he has 3 gold medals under his name. So I'm suprised at that, although they likely put GSL on every event to attract attention anyway. As far as Kongs go, I just think it's funny how Stats has a similar number of second places/ro4 finishes to guys like soO and Dark. With his only actual wins being when he meets them in finals and they characteristically underperformed. Stats has less 2nd places in his entire career than soO has just in GSL. And if we start using the term Kong this loosely we may as well start with sOs and his stellar 0/2 record in GSL finals. How many losses to do need? People called MKP, Dream, ByuL etc kongs. Stats has 5 losses and 10 ro4 finishes. A lot of them being matches he was favoured to win. I just feel like if Stats didn't win those finals against soO and Dark (the pair who choke almost every time including those against Stats), he'd be well established as a kong. The original definition of a Kong is someone who gets 2nd places in Starleagues but can win weekend tournaments (AKA YellOw). Stats absolutely doesn't fit this definition, not one bit. Dream and ByuL didn't win a single tournament, only 2nd places, and MarineKing won weekenders while getting 2nd places in GSL. They fit a lot better.
Yeah but in sc2 starleagues mean a bit less and weekenders mean a lot more.
I was just saying it's quite funny that Stats has lost to everyone other than soO and Dark, who are the biggest kongs we have right now. If he didn't beat the guys who choke more than anyone else in sc2, he'd be well known as a kong by now.
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oh i lost 11 drones to 6 adepts, whatever im gonna just win with roaches.
how do u stop that as protoss idk
User was warned for this post
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On August 06 2018 02:37 TentativePanda wrote:
Congrats to Serral!
Wish it was Maru vs Serral strictly because of how much more entertaining ZvT is than ZvP
Entertaining o_O ? Not as entertaining as ZvT!? Have you taken a look at the highlight above ^ or *that* game 5?
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/293320065?t=04h48m50s
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Is Kong meant as an insult or just tough luck, like soO?
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On August 06 2018 03:39 Torvaltz wrote:
oh i lost 11 drones to 6 adepts, whatever im gonna just win with roaches.
how do u stop that as protoss idk
scouting the all in? serral didnt build a single drone since... attacked on 44 drones, while stats went up on like 60. if he had immediately put down the shield batterys, he hold this and win the game.
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On August 06 2018 03:39 Torvaltz wrote:
oh i lost 11 drones to 6 adepts, whatever im gonna just win with roaches.
how do u stop that as protoss idk
Identify sooner and build army instead of economy/tech? Cannons, shield batteries? He had no defense to this, he failed to identify it early.
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will they release replays?
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On August 06 2018 03:43 dicey wrote:
Is Kong meant as an insult or just tough luck, like soO?
It's a bad thing meant in a loving way.
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WCS
