Oh man... Now I'm mad. Zironic... Radagast... I wish i could use that new protoss blink ability to warp in front of your computer, punch you in the mouth for speaking such blasphemy, and then warp back into Denver and continue writing this post.
I can't do that. So I'll use my words to crush you. But first, watch this video. Watch it the whole way through.
Shall i go further? You called it button mashing. Wow. You know what i call button mashing? when that newbie never learned how to play Marvel vs capcom 2 or Soulcalibur in the arcade. They just sat there violently hitting buttons like some lunatic not even looking at their hands. Meanwhile i was blocking and watching his moves becuase i had a bad ass combo ready to fuck him up when his useless and illogical mashing gave me the room to start attacking. Maybe it was something you had to get comfortable with at first, some newbie mashing keys and beating you in a fighter. But then you learn how to play the game. Ask Justin Wong.
I wonder if he was just mashing that game... i bet you would think so. Did you hear that clicking amongst the cheers? that was the sound of his music crushing his opponent. Alot like i'm crushing you.
Then there are counterstrike players (i'm talking more about 1.6, i don't like the randomness of the bullets in source, source is beautiful but cs 1.6 i think has proven to be a more sucessful esport. I'm also not a fps expert, i just love watching CS). They have patterns memorized in their brains aswell. Just watch when they buy, look at how they bind their keys. There are so many patterns there aswell. You know they actually map out the locations they're going to stay in right? They don't just randomly run around shooting guns at each other. They have a plan! Did you think when 3D starts up the game and Volcano says "Ok guys i'm just going to buy this gun, i don't care what gun, just whatever i feel like, and kill everyone, try not to get shot though because if too many of us die we might be TOTALLY FUCKED." No... Ofcourse not. This is why newbies who cry camper in CS need to be shot. They almost always are in the game anyways.
I get the impression that you suck at chess. I bet you went crazy the first time you were checkmated in four moves because you didn't know to look at all those pieces on the board before moving again. The good chess player watches carefully, but he have vision of the whole map, he doesn't have to scout... Guess what! In chess your only allowed to play with one hand. In starcraft you play with both hands. You even use all your fingers to play. Five fingers on the keyboard (and don't even tell me you don't use your thumb, you use it on the right ctrl key to hotkey keys like 0 and 9, but i bet you were too stupid to take the keys off.) Five fingers to hold the mouse (use your thumb, pinky and ring finger to hold the mouse correctly during intense micro, use your other two fingers to click).
You know what else makes you newbie? You know how i know you've never played chess competitively? Because you didn't know the rules about touching the pieces or you would never have brought up this argument in the first place. In chess if you touch the wrong piece, you HAVE to move it. Those are the rules. If you touch your opponents piece you have to capture it (assuming this is possible, but even then it's still completely illegal to touch other pieces). Technically those two players in the video are microing their pieces. Watch the video again, they move their pieces so elegantly because they don't want to lose because of their own sloppy errors... micro. By the way, pausing is illegal in the Korean proleagues, just watch that video of nal ra getting disqualified. It's illegal because it's unfair to stop the game and think for more time then the rules would allow for. Don't worry, I'm not even finished destroying you yet.
hm... wow... those sure look similar. I wish Alexandra Kosteniuk was here so she could slam dunk you in a game of chess. There's more though. But it's based off of what your opponent is doing. First there was Chess, Now there is Starcraft. If you have a better method of understanding strategy games please tell me. Please stop crying about how hard the keyboard is to use. Kids like you were the ones i always wanted to play in tournaments first; kids like you are free wins. At every lan tournament i ever showed up at, i would watch all the other players hands. There was always a group of people not using their hands. They also always had alot of money and cried about how the game is stupid because some people just get a whole bunch of units too fast.
The problem is that these poor people were too stupid or lazy to learn how this game is ment to be played. They didn't win much. Serves them right. Strategy games have logical rules like i already said. Because logical concepts are built off math. Not off a bunch of fruity intangible concepts that can't be understood or explained. There has to something like this so the game itself doesnt become random like gambling. We don't want the winner of the game to be some doushebag who got lucky. If you want esports to get big it must but be skill based maybe you should go play poker. That game has skill and luck (like warcraft 3 rofl). I don't like feeling lucky, i like feeling elite.
Look man, I'll be honest. Not everything is easy to learn. On a personal note i was born dyslexic and i see many letters backwards. I just misspell often (thank you spellchecker^^). I was conscious enough to use it on my posts, if you check other posts by me on this thread, you'll see that there are several words periodically misspelled. But god damnit! I still taught myself how to read. Now i read fucking books all the time. I just had to teach myself different methods of reading that suited my eyes. I love reading philosophy the most. I think I've explained the metaphysics of starcraft enough here. And my philosophies > yours.
But just like i was dyslexic with reading and writing, YOU are dyslexic with starcraft. YOU have failed to see how the game is played and YOU can't read starcraft very well at all. Perhaps all people are disabled in one way or another. What's important is that you overcome whatever was disabling you before. Stop crying about how you don't want to use the keyboard. If you don't like it why don't you go pick up another newbie RTS game where keyboards. I Don't know what starcraft 2 is like, new features are fine! I just don't want blizzard to screw this up and avoid using the tool that was used to make the game so perfect.
Also, i apologize for my rudeness and profanity earlier. But newbies like you make me so mad because your not taking the time to learn the game yourself. I'm also not talking shit on Blizzard because i want to see this game first before i start judge it. Until then I'm going to attack what i see about the interface, because that's all i have to do. Look at your keyboard and start to practice your instrument so that at your next concert or performance you could awe your audience and bring joy to your fans. You wont have any if you've never played it before.ore.
Attacking my skill level at either game doesn't make for a sound or convincing argument Tasteless, I'm sorry. You made a ton of assumptions about what I know and don't know about these games in your post, and most of them were wrong. The rest of the content isn't worth replying to.
I understand where you're coming from and see the validity of this mindset of yours, however much it conflicts with my own understanding/ideals/interests/whatever. You on the other hand, seem to be entirely uncapable of acknowledging my side of the argument. You can't really get past the Newbie name-calling phase.
EDIT: I re-read your post and realized you are basically IN LOVE with hacking away at the keyboard as the ultimate meaning of RTS gameplay and/or life in general. It doesn't seem you can analyze the subject matter rationally.
On May 25 2007 16:37 MyLostTemple wrote: Oh man... Now I'm mad. Zironic... Radagast... I wish i could use that new protoss blink ability to warp in front of your computer, punch you in the mouth for speaking such blasphemy, and then warp back into Denver and continue writing this post.
On May 25 2007 13:03 Tal wrote: Wow...great post from Tasteless....I finally can actually understand the ''keep the interface shit'' school of thought. Good to see it written so passionately, and now I finally feel some sympathy for everyone seeing Starcraft 2 as a step in the wrong direction (as the interface will obviously be changed from the SC one). You've finally conveyed why SC is seen as so special in those ways.
But...I'm still with radagast et al....I don't want to play the starcraft that Tasteless and you guys love. I have no desire to develop those mechanical skills on a computer game- I'd rather devote that time to playing guitar, and play computer games with more user friendly interfaces. Like Radagast I want to play a strategy game in real time, with the oppurtunity to act simultaneously to and decieve my opponent- engage in a battle of wills. The whole total focus of mechanical skills + brain just doesn't appeal to me- I'd rather just need 100apm to compete at top level, even if I know that won't happen. And to be honest, most gamers I talk to are on the same side. Its too much to have to devote so much time to mastering an interface- even for your favourite game. I've played games all my life, and I agree SC is the best RTS ever made. But with improvements to interface, it could be so much better by my (and other gamers standards). I don't want the same intense experience- I want a different one- focused on planning and thinking (under pressure), instead of executing multiple commands under pressure of interface (and trying to think too). Hopefully starcraft 2 will have it.
Just one question though- if they made starcraft 2 with the option to either play with a great super user-friendly interface (no unit select limit, select multiple buildings, sophisticated hot key system, even auto build/ orders for troops like retreat on sighting enemy etc) or to play with a SC1 replica interface, would many of you really choose to play on the server with the old style interface? I guess tasteless would (and fair play to him), but what about the rest of you?
thanks, but... look man, you don't need high apm necessarily to play starcraft. obviously i did 0p once when i made my first probe, but in between that time i hit: 0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p 0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p0p that many times before i had the money for my next probe. I do that all the time and don't even realize I'm doing it. But those are logged as 'Actions' in APM. This is where you get a bunch of stupid newbies saying 'omg but i will never have 600 apm like nada.'
Look at the legitimate movements in the game. How many times do i BUILD something in the game. There are other reasons for high apm too. Remember me saying talking about the action 4d5d6d7d8d9d0d many protoss players can do in .5 seconds? Well while those dragoons are buildings i hit 4567890 and watch the bottom of the screen, i make sure i made my first motion correctly. I know if i did it right because i can see all the dragoons buildings at the same time at the same rate. imagine i did this a few times while microing and clicking. Wow i would have some very high apm.
Starcraft is only bursts of APM. Only small explosions of quick actions. The problem is we measured them in minutes instead of every 5 seconds. That's my theory at least. If starcraft 2 had 100 apm required to be good, i still think a player who's checking to make sure his shit is building and constantly microing his troops would end up with more apm, just in a different manner. I once saw an old rep of fisheye beating nada. Nada had 400 apm, fisheye had 130 i believe. Fisheye was also a very careful and precise player. APM isn't everything, it's a factor. And at least in my opinion, Koreans go a little crazy on it.
Sometimes i see Koreans do weird builds that make no sense to me, maybe some (not all) focus on getting their apm so high because they hear that other players have high apm as well. I don't know. If blizzard wants to deal with that. It would be interesting, but it's not going to happen unless they learned from their mistakes. I suppose you could penalize the player for actions that have no purpose. But just remember what actual actions that occur in the game are versus actions that are spammed because the player knows what motion to preform next.
On May 25 2007 16:56 EmS.Radagast wrote: I understand where you're coming from and see the validity of this mindset of yours, however much it conflicts with my own understanding/ideals/interests/whatever. You on the other hand, seem to be entirely uncapable of acknowledging my side of the argument. You can't really get past the Newbie name-calling phase.
EDIT: I re-read your post and realized you are basically IN LOVE with hacking away at the keyboard as the ultimate meaning of RTS gameplay and/or life in general. It doesn't seem you can analyze the subject matter rationally.
if this were true, nal ra wouldn't be my favorite player. because he's the smartest korean in my opinion. i'm simply saying keep the keyboard man. keep the gameplay aspect of the game. keep something about starcraft in the next starcraft. your acting like i don't know that psychology is part of the game. i do, there is psychology in all of those games i showed you. we havn't even begun to tal about the mouse. All the tricks a player can use to trick his opponent. To out menuver him. That's why boxer was my first starcraft hero. again, more features. Do you really think i want starcraft 2 played on a giant piano? that's an interesting thought. But anyone who thinks Starcraft was PURELY a combination of hotkeys is silly to. Have you watched pimpest plays? Damn there is some crazy stuff in that. However the hotkeys seem to have this massive role in the game.
If they nurf hotkeys that's fine, I lose to Day[9] more than i beat him. His hands are quite fast. He took piano lessons as a child. I just don't want this oversimplified building selection to be filled with good graphics and nothing more. I want to see new ways of microing, new techniques for diffrent brains to utilize. I want to see the next level or RTS gaming.
And again i apologize. Most of my comments are sarcastic. But prehaps you don't find a little trash talk fun. I always did. But i wasn't really talking to you necessarily, i was talking to all the starcraft players on tl.net who have refused to learn the hotkeys. Who thought that this wasn't part of the game. IT WAS. Your input is valid, but i am flustered with you aswell for not learning the techniques (your earlyer post only just brought up that you are starting to get it).
I love all people who love starcraft. Just understand that i'm also sitting here fighting for something i believe in. That esports can become just like real sports. Just as big everywhere. As long as we are moving forward and not backwards. I don't want to play Starcraft and only Starcraft for my entire life. Although i will always go back to it for nostalgia. I intend to play starcraft 2 and cast for it aswell.
New things can be scary, and this has always been the favorite of my favorite games.
truce? <3
and by the way, is trev right about the new system? if he is i'll drop this hotkey discussion. I just havn't heard about this.
On May 25 2007 16:37 MyLostTemple wrote: Oh man... Now I'm mad. Zironic... Radagast... I wish i could use that new protoss blink ability to warp in front of your computer, punch you in the mouth for speaking such blasphemy, and then warp back into Denver and continue writing this post.
LOL
Nice post. But it's like talking to a wall
It's like one of those endless politics debates in that people have established opinions and nobody seriously intends to reconsider their opinion, but argue anyway. But I think towards the end several good points were made by both sides. It was a good discussion overall, I seriously think somone at blizzard should email the development team a summarized version of it
On May 25 2007 16:37 MyLostTemple wrote: Oh man... Now I'm mad. Zironic... Radagast... I wish i could use that new protoss blink ability to warp in front of your computer, punch you in the mouth for speaking such blasphemy, and then warp back into Denver and continue writing this post.
LOL
Nice post. But it's like talking to a wall
It's like one of those endless politics debates in that people have established opinions and nobody seriously intends to reconsider their opinion, but argue anyway. But I think towards the end several good points were made by both sides. It was a good discussion overall, I seriously think somone at blizzard should email the development team a summarized version of it
That's quite a beautiful song you have there, and you still get to play like that with an improved interface. You just have to adjust it, and you actually will have enough hotkeys to continue playing it later in the game when you have more buildings. Here's how your beginning build order would change with MBS:
What I hope is that with a new improved interface we will see more composers, and less people playing other people's notes
Interesting... did they say they were going to do this?
They didn't say it with words no. But judging from
how the mechanics of all of Blizzard's games are streamlined, yet they include different playing styles
how the Protoss production was shown in the gameplay video twice, mildly different from eachother
my belief that Blizzard listens to their audience and wants to correct some of their mistakes from the release of Warcraft 3
I find it quite probable.
I also think it would be a good middle ground between those that are totally against MBS and those that want production to work exactly like in Warcraft 3.
Another possibility is that the order 4ddd can also be done with 4[ctrl/shift/alt]d. But we'll just have to wait and see. (4=select group of gateways, d=warp in dragoon, [ctrl/shift/alt]=give next order to all selected units/buildings (watch closely the difference between warping in Stalkers and Zealots in the gameplay video to see what I mean))
Of course I may be totally utterly wrong, and that only warp gates has this flexible functionality.
(sorry, looks like this discussion is nearing an end. But damn it, i typed up a crapload this afternoon, so here it goes)) ((and my new pc doesnt have word on it yet... note to self, don't edit a post in wordpad. yuck. sorry for the \\\ ) Part 1
I also loved the post from Tasteless. Very nice post... very clear and fun to read. I can agree with a large portion of what was said. There have been several good posts pro-MBS and anti-MBS. I have some stuff on my mind that is related... so if you don\\\'t mind a really long post go ahead and read.
My concern is micro vs macro late game. I have a great deal of beef with what I see happen with micro at even the pro levels of the game and I think MBS would change it for the better... and perhaps I just realized this particular thing on the last two VODs I watched of some recent pro matches. The sloppiness. The sloppiness just irks the crap out of me. The fans are probably calling me insane ... the pros aren\\\'t sloppy in Starcraft- that\\\'s more than ridiculous!!! And that\\\'s my exact point.
The beautiful game becomes an ulgy mess. Chaos is my friend... but sloppiness in Starcraft KILLS me. What sloppiness? Read on.
I\\\'ll just never get over the fact that even the pros make so many small sloppy mistakes... not because they don\\\'t know better, not the ones where they were attacked in three places and couldn\\\'t keep up, but the little sloppy errors because they had to manage their base/production. And I\\\'m not talking about the baby pros... I\\\'m talking about the guys at the top of their game. How often have I seen VODs where there are 4 or 5 SCVs on a 3 gas mine in late game? How often have I seen control groups 1,2, and 3 contain high templar... and they are also attack moved into the fray before casting and only half of the templar get to cast storm before they die? How often do you see lurkers die before they even burrow (ok hopefully not much, but it made me really sick)? How often do you see a nice tricky strat by Boxer lose him the game because, perhaps, he didn\\\'t build units while executing the strat?
I am all for mistakes made (losing more units than not) because you were busy macroing and not watching the battle by choice. But I am 100% against mistakes made WHILE you were microing the battle because you knew you had to macro, and macroing took up 70%-90% of your time at the end of the game.
I guess this is where people take their sides and things get tricky. As time goes on (game goes to late game), macro takes more effort. As time goes on the SAME things happens for microing a battle. Generally, as time goes on, macro becomes much more important than micro (until money is ran up or perhaps until mutual base destruction becomes the goal). I\\\'d like to see a bit more micro late game.
To decide whether MBS is bad you have to weigh the pros and cons. Where does MBS fit in exactly... and I mean in the SC world, not the War3 world?
1. Does it hurt Micro and Macro both... equally? Hard to say.
2. Does it benefit the newb only? Don\\\'t think so.
3. Does it actually make the game more battle and maneuver based? Probably.
4. Would being more battle and maneuver based mean all the players that rely on APM would become much worse players? I seriously doubt it.
5. Would some pro players be hurt by MBS? Probably... but only those that didn\\\'t master every aspect of the game.
6. Does MBS take away from the beauty of the game of SC2? We can\\\'t answer this, because there may be so much more to do... we won\\\'t know till we play. And really play... not just 1 month of alpha testing.
I will say this. Don\\\'t be so sure of why you didn\\\'t enjoy Warcraft 3. The design sounded like it\\\'d be fun for me, but for whatever reason I just couldnt stick with it. It wasn\\\'t as fun as SC. So i won\\\'t take a hard stance on MBS. The situation for SC2 and MBS isn\\\'t clear until the game is played. It could be for the better... it could be for the worse. But I will stand by my distinct preference that sloppy micro, when you are trying to micro, is just a travesty to see.
------
MBS would take away from one large luck factor in SC. Those every so present moments at fastest play games (it wasn\\\'t always fastest in the old days) where you decide to go back to your base to build men during a battle... and then because of that 2 second delay, you lost half of your force due to something that you totally could have prevented if you had watched the battle. Sometimes you are able to avoid these simply due to good scouting and not being surprised... but sometimes you don\\\'t know what\\\'s in the back of that tank push because you don\\\'t have a comstat (toss/zerg) to get past the turrets, tanks, and mines. Well, perhaps you can\\\'t take your eyes off a tank push, but late game that means death. With MBS, you could keep fighting when you knew it was important and not take your eyes off the battle at that point in time.
MBS frees up more hotkeys and will allow for more hotkeying of groups of units... for fancier flanks and attacking more areas at once.
As some have pointed out, for maximum mechnical and dexterity you could actually take away some of the UI features like hotkeying units, etc. There is a balance to be made, for sure. I don\\\'t think anyone would argue that being able to hotkey units is a bad thing... yet in the old days of RTS you couldn\\\'t do it and it required more actions to do the same thing you can do in Starcraft. This hardly makes Starcraft a less skillful game.
MBS would fix something that would make me happy. A pet peeve of mine is rallying production facilities one at a time. it\\\'s fine when you have two gates. When you have 10+ gates it\\\'s more than a little annoying to do them one at a time without hotkeys and just about impossible to have all 10+ of them hotkeyed.
-Realizations-
Realization: After thinking on this more, I\\\'m actually leaning to MBS being a good thing.
Realization2 (slightly off topic, but while we\\\'re on design): Going back to the \\\"fast speed\\\" vs \\\"fastest speed\\\"... gamers will gravitate to fastest, but I think fast speed games typically emphasize early game balance, whereas fastest speed games typically emphasize late game balance. Early game balance being more critical in design so that late game can even be achieved. I hope to see fast speed (or faster) played in the SC2 beta.
Realization 3: i take back what i said in other post a little. Perhaps not all races in SC are micro/macro equal. Terran must be more macro friendly despite Boxer\\\'s micro fame. i say this because (correct me if i\\\'m wrong) there are more terran pros making it to higher levels of tournaments and more of their styles usually revolve around late game macro. And Terran, perhaps, has the easiest chance to defend against early aggressive micro/harrass and even late game harrass... early vs. zerg is probably the trickiest but that\\\'s 1 out of 3 matches (or 1 out of 4 now with Terran\\\'s large presence).
Conclusion?
Blizzard will do what they think is right. They are smart, lucky, and stubborn. I think they\\\'ll get it right.
I agree with the above post, mbs = better gameplay. Besides lots of times when i play zerg I have 80+ units and to keep re hotkeying them as they die/different units are added to my army and attacking 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a (which isnt' hard but often one or more groups will get missed, whether my fault or just battle.net missing a command). Mainly with zerg do I think this is a good idea, its too difficult to run around selecting really small units and grouping them properly while expanding/building drones/building more units/attacking/haraassing/defending. If you take out the trediousness of building drones/building more units there is still alot of shit to do. But then again nobody outside blizz really knows what sc2 is all about.
Good multitasking and speed does not take physical speed or coordination. ANYONE can have 300 apm, but very few people can have 300 effective apm.
The ability to constantly be controlling so many aspects is a mental challenge, not a physical one. Maybe good micro takes great accuracy and hand speed, but its generally not worth it if you can't multitask well enough.
I don't see why you guys are so against macro as opposed to micro. The MBS doesn't take away from micro, instead the attention of micro gets moved elsewhere instead of building selection.. better unit control.. better resource management, better scouting.. etc. MBS just displaces the uneccessary micro there.. and allows you to focus more on the action at hand.. that is combat and recourses.
The pros, to play efficiently, will probaly still use individual building selection.. its not like they're forced to use MBS only. You can't compare MBS with fighter button smashing.. thats a little bit of a far fetched comparisn. MBS just makes the game more newb friendly ON START up.. they still have a long way to go to reach expert levels. I played WC3 a lot, which featured MBS, a newb will lose 100% of the time garuanteed.. I've played against enough of them to know.
On May 25 2007 20:16 yangstuh wrote: I don't see why you guys are so against macro as opposed to micro. The MBS doesn't take away from micro, instead the attention of micro gets moved elsewhere instead of building selection.. better unit control.. better resource management, better scouting.. etc. MBS just displaces the uneccessary micro there.. and allows you to focus more on the action at hand.. that is combat and recourses.
The pros, to play efficiently, will probaly still use individual building selection.. its not like they're forced to use MBS only. You can't compare MBS with fighter button smashing.. thats a little bit of a far fetched comparisn. MBS just makes the game more newb friendly ON START up.. they still have a long way to go to reach expert levels. I played WC3 a lot, which featured MBS, a newb will lose 100% of the time garuanteed.. I've played against enough of them to know.
If theres a button for every combo, anyone can be great at the game with moderate intelligence.
Now you remove the buttons for combos (mbs) and sudenly, it becomes more competative. You have to...remember orders? utilize the dexterity in your hands? heaven forbid you have to practice!
On May 25 2007 20:16 yangstuh wrote: I don't see why you guys are so against macro as opposed to micro. The MBS doesn't take away from micro, instead the attention of micro gets moved elsewhere instead of building selection.. better unit control.. better resource management, better scouting.. etc. MBS just displaces the uneccessary micro there.. and allows you to focus more on the action at hand.. that is combat and recourses.
The pros, to play efficiently, will probaly still use individual building selection.. its not like they're forced to use MBS only. You can't compare MBS with fighter button smashing.. thats a little bit of a far fetched comparisn. MBS just makes the game more newb friendly ON START up.. they still have a long way to go to reach expert levels. I played WC3 a lot, which featured MBS, a newb will lose 100% of the time garuanteed.. I've played against enough of them to know.
Carlo?
MBS in WC3 is much different, macro does not play a big as a role on WC3 as it does in SC. I don't understand this obsession with micro and how all of a sudden micro is super-strategic while macro is button-mashing. You probably do more (mouse and keyboard)button mashing while microing than macroing.
On May 25 2007 20:16 yangstuh wrote: I don't see why you guys are so against macro as opposed to micro. The MBS doesn't take away from micro, instead the attention of micro gets moved elsewhere instead of building selection.. better unit control.. better resource management, better scouting.. etc. MBS just displaces the uneccessary micro there.. and allows you to focus more on the action at hand.. that is combat and recourses.
The pros, to play efficiently, will probaly still use individual building selection.. its not like they're forced to use MBS only. You can't compare MBS with fighter button smashing.. thats a little bit of a far fetched comparisn. MBS just makes the game more newb friendly ON START up.. they still have a long way to go to reach expert levels. I played WC3 a lot, which featured MBS, a newb will lose 100% of the time garuanteed.. I've played against enough of them to know.
If theres a button for every combo, anyone can be great at the game with moderate intelligence.
Now you remove the buttons for combos (mbs) and sudenly, it becomes more competative. You have to...remember orders? utilize the dexterity in your hands? heaven forbid you have to practice!
Why are you guys trying to turn this game into a fighter game.. its an RTS. Anyways Blizzard is intelligent enough to implement MBS, and I don't think they're going to remove it ever.
>_>
Its like you're trying to force the world to drive manual instead of automatic.
Do you gusy honestly think a newb is going to 'accidentily' win against a pro just because of MBS? Please say no... it just doesn't make sense.
On May 25 2007 20:16 yangstuh wrote: I don't see why you guys are so against macro as opposed to micro. The MBS doesn't take away from micro, instead the attention of micro gets moved elsewhere instead of building selection.. better unit control.. better resource management, better scouting.. etc. MBS just displaces the uneccessary micro there.. and allows you to focus more on the action at hand.. that is combat and recourses.
The pros, to play efficiently, will probaly still use individual building selection.. its not like they're forced to use MBS only. You can't compare MBS with fighter button smashing.. thats a little bit of a far fetched comparisn. MBS just makes the game more newb friendly ON START up.. they still have a long way to go to reach expert levels. I played WC3 a lot, which featured MBS, a newb will lose 100% of the time garuanteed.. I've played against enough of them to know.
If theres a button for every combo, anyone can be great at the game with moderate intelligence.
Now you remove the buttons for combos (mbs) and sudenly, it becomes more competative. You have to...remember orders? utilize the dexterity in your hands? heaven forbid you have to practice!
Why are you guys trying to turn this game into a fighter game.. its an RTS. Anyways Blizzard is intelligent enough to implement MBS, and I don't think they're going to remove it ever.
>_>
Its like you're trying to force the world to drive manual instead of automatic.
Do you gusy honestly think a newb is going to 'accidentily' win against a pro just because of MBS? Please say no... it just doesn't make sense.
Woah, woah, woah, automatic transmission? The reason automatic transmission is so popular is because it takes zero skill to operate. The same reason professional racers have manual transmission. When you make a car for the public, your not trying to encourage innovation and skill, when you make a strategy game you are!
EPT
