Perhaps it is just me, but it seems that with the current new display of units that the "style" of a Protoss player is about to change.
Whenever I looked at the races, in terms of mobility and response time, I always saw Zerg at the top and Terran and Protoss vying for the second place. The extreme flexibity of the Zerg in terms of their larvae system coupled with their all-seeing overlords and the occasional nydus canal really gives them a distinct "feel". However, with the new units and buildings for the Protoss...the warping units, the warping gateways, and the new "mobile pylon"-type thing, I feel like they might become the next mobile, flexible race.
While this isn't necessarily a bad thing...as a Zerg player, I feel...jealous? I really hope that the flexibilty and the mobility of the Zerg forces remains at the top of the three races...it makes them fun and unique to play.
Of course we haven't even seen the other two races...and I trust Blizzard to balance them all. But still, the new Protoss "style" leaves me bothered...
On May 20 2007 15:22 XCetron wrote: Zerg doesnt need mobility anymore, theyre already taking up like 2/3 of the map due to their numbers anyway. Look at all those lings massing.
As a Zerg player...and after seeing the new Protoss abilities...I fully expect to be able to make any unit at any time...anywhere. I want to be able to click on any point on the map and instantly have 2421531513 zerglings rip through the ground. I want to also see the entire map, and be able to make hatcheries for 25 minerals.
But I also feel that starcraft 2 is going to have a much more "realistic" feel to it. The zerg were always referred to as "the swarm", but they just didn't feel like it to me. The new footage of hundreads of zerglings unburrowing, popping out of nydus worms all over the place, gives the race a far more refined and awsome look/style.
I also really like the new protoss look with the unit warping. I know we had Arbiters, but they just felt kind of rediculous. They were a top tier unit that cost a bunch of resources. The ability to warp was/is a huge part of protoss culture/society/etc, and the new abilities shown in starcraft 2 appear to be far more 'realistic' in terms of what the protoss are capable of.
Terran still appears to have that 'backwater colonist' feel about their race. I'm really looking forward to playing wtih them when the game is released. Seeing the new starcraft 2 terran gave me the same chills the Brood War intro cinematic gave me; (remember the terrans in the trench? "Where's the air support!?!?!?" *other marine points upwards, huge battle cruiser*. I also loved the shot in the new cinematic with the marines lined with dead zergs/smoke/dust all around them, framed by a city skyline and a huge nuclear explosion.
Hell, they should redue all the old starcraft campaignes with this new engine.
On May 20 2007 15:22 XCetron wrote: Zerg doesnt need mobility anymore, theyre already taking up like 2/3 of the map due to their numbers anyway. Look at all those lings massing.
As a Zerg player...and after seeing the new Protoss abilities...I fully expect to be able to make any unit at any time...anywhere. I want to be able to click on any point on the map and instantly have 2421531513 zerglings rip through the ground. I want to also see the entire map, and be able to make hatcheries for 25 minerals.
I'm pretty sure one of the main purposes of the nydus worm will be to harass mineral lines and such. But they'll balance that; the protoss will warp in units with their new ship, and the terrans have their jetpack marines.
Let me also add that the races appear to be more refined: The zerg seems to be this endless suicidal swarm; using their numbers and relentlessness to win.
The protoss seem more 'technique' orientated, valueing individual units more, and carefully choosing times/places/support units when attacking (ie, the power of a colossus against certain units, yet the vulnerability at the same time)
I'm not sure about terran yet. They still seem to be the same as they were in original games; a small mixture of both protoss and zerg in terms of style.
Omg people at least wait till we see the other two races... don't you guys realize this is an entirely new game? If you want to play starcraft then play starcraft. Stop trying to make starcraft II into I.
On May 20 2007 15:32 boghat wrote: Omg people at least wait till we see the other two races... don't you guys realize this is an entirely new game? If you want to play starcraft then play starcraft. Stop trying to make starcraft II into I.
I mentioned that...I'm just talking about the "style" change of each race.
And I do suppose that the Zerg were supposed to have more of a "Swarm" feel to them...and yes, I loved using recall whenever I could but was somewhat disappointed with the costs and feasibility of actually using an arbiter in a normal melee game.
Nydus worms will be my savior....(crosses fingers)...
On May 20 2007 16:01 PJA wrote: I don't think it's even remotely possible to talk about the style of each race without even knowing all of the units/buildings.
I'm so pumped to devour every little new bit of info from Blizzard!!!!!!!!
Well, Protoss really should be able to teleport units around and be mobile, in general. Just like the Eldar in Warhammer 40k. I don't like the "feel" of the SC1 Protoss at all, they're just too standard. I think that SC2 is going to change that so they'll have fewer but stronger units with more abilities so that they can deal with any situation efficiently.
As for Zerg, their mobility is simply a result of their speedy units. Which should stay this way. Zerg should be a race which is about fast attacks, flexibility (changing units/tech quickly), and simply massing and quickly taking over the whole map to be able to overrun the enemy with TONS of units.
Protoss should have very "advanced" (and expensive) units with special features. They should have specialists (perfect counter units) for *all* situations. No more masses of zealots/goons. This just doesn't do justice to their advanced technology if you play them like Zerg.
On May 20 2007 15:32 boghat wrote: Omg people at least wait till we see the other two races... don't you guys realize this is an entirely new game? If you want to play starcraft then play starcraft. Stop trying to make starcraft II into I.
I mentioned that...I'm just talking about the "style" change of each race.
And I do suppose that the Zerg were supposed to have more of a "Swarm" feel to them...and yes, I loved using recall whenever I could but was somewhat disappointed with the costs and feasibility of actually using an arbiter in a normal melee game.
Nydus worms will be my savior....(crosses fingers)...
I'd estimate I've built at least one arbiter (lol like I'd settle for one :D!! mass arbiters gogo) per PvT on average, for the past.. 1.5 years at least.
On May 20 2007 16:01 PJA wrote: I don't think it's even remotely possible to talk about the style of each race without even knowing all of the units/buildings.
Not possible? Watch us!! it is clear that protoss also has a new hand of god in the two air units specialised agianst respectively 1) many units 2) few units So whatever you throw at them, you loose. Then add the mothership that owns any bigger attack with the black hole if it's in air, or with the time thingy if it's from ground. I call imba!!!!!
But I'm really looking forward to have 5 control groups of lings, only now groups of 24! gogo swarm!!
On May 20 2007 16:24 PissedOffEmo wrote: from this video it looks like 5 goons can take out so many tanks
those goons >> tanks it seems, but the videoclip shows that if you bring the jump-pack infantery, then np. So terrans will have to build more than one barracks aginst protoss in sc2 it seems.
On May 20 2007 16:01 PJA wrote: I don't think it's even remotely possible to talk about the style of each race without even knowing all of the units/buildings.
Not possible? Watch us!! it is clear that protoss also has a new hand of god in the two air units specialised agianst respectively 1) many units 2) few units So whatever you throw at them, you loose. Then add the mothership that owns any bigger attack with the black hole if it's in air, or with the time thingy if it's from ground. I call imba!!!!!
But I'm really looking forward to have 5 control groups of lings, only now groups of 24! gogo swarm!!
There's no cap on unit selection. Also presumably the War3 features will remain intact, such as Subgroups, limited Autocast (Zealot charge ability is automatic, for example), and hotkeying multiple buildings to a control group.
I wonder what specifically triggers the Immortal shield. Is it hard-scripted against certain units, or is there a damage threshold? If it's the latter, perhaps upgrading can work against you. For example, say the damage threshold is 35. If you reach 2/2 upgrades your Siege Tank in Tank Mode now triggers the shield, whereas ordinarily perhaps that's an effective way of dealing with Immortals.
The damage threshold would probably be easier to program but I think it being hardcoded against certain types of attacks makes more sense. I have no idea how they've actually done it.
On May 20 2007 16:01 PJA wrote: I don't think it's even remotely possible to talk about the style of each race without even knowing all of the units/buildings.
Not possible? Watch us!! it is clear that protoss also has a new hand of god in the two air units specialised agianst respectively 1) many units 2) few units So whatever you throw at them, you loose. Then add the mothership that owns any bigger attack with the black hole if it's in air, or with the time thingy if it's from ground. I call imba!!!!!
But I'm really looking forward to have 5 control groups of lings, only now groups of 24! gogo swarm!!
There's no cap on unit selection. Also presumably the War3 features will remain intact, such as Subgroups, limited Autocast (Zealot charge ability is automatic, for example), and hotkeying multiple buildings to a control group.
I wonder what specifically triggers the Immortal shield. Is it hard-scripted against certain units, or is there a damage threshold? If it's the latter, perhaps upgrading can work against you. For example, say the damage threshold is 35. If you reach 2/2 upgrades your Siege Tank in Tank Mode now triggers the shield, whereas ordinarily perhaps that's an effective way of dealing with Immortals.
It seems more logical to have it be triggered by attack type, eg; the 'Explosive' attack of the Siege Tank would trigger the shield, whereas the 'Piercing' attack of the Reapers would not.
On May 20 2007 15:26 Zeenix wrote: It would be really imba if the zerglings could make tunnels underground and just pop up anywhere and rape a mineral line or two.
._.' Then they'd be like demon moles or something. The advertisement for demon mole-killer would be to hire a Marine.
While protoss have new ways of deploying their forces, I still think zerg are gonna be able to cover the map faster. Those mobile pylon things look fairly slow. I loved the fact that zerg could expand faster and consume the map in BW so hopefully they can do that in SC2 as well
i'm sure that zerg will still have ovvi's and be VERY mobile. There's a long way untill the game is out. So there isn't really any idea in discussing thing like this yet, since we've only seen protoss so far - And not even all the units.
On May 20 2007 18:43 XCetron wrote: They need to give Terran CC a minigun on top or something so it can defend it self.
2dmg per sec or something. Doesnt make sense to have a giant floating freaking "command center" and no auto D of its own.
maybe even 1 damage per sec, just give it something.
Why do they need that? Anti-rush? Blizzard already basically said "Fuck anti-rush, noobs".
From SC2 Panel discussion on gameplay:
Pardo suggests that "with Starcraft II, [Blizzard is] really going back to its roots to make a true sequel to Starcraft"--a sequel where resource management will be much more central to gameplay, with less micromanagement of different units with special abilities, and in which full-on early-game "rushing" (making an all-out assault at or near the beginning of a new game session) will be much more viable. In fact, the VP goes on to state that the game will probably offer more early "tech tree" optons--different development paths players can take by building different structures and researching different upgrades--which will make early-game scouting more important, and will make early-game rushing a more-diverse and deeper strategy.
Baneling sneak ftw. You can just sneak lings in, die because the zealots charged at you and owned you before you could sneak in but still sneak in a few lingers and pray to god he forgets so you can make some BANELINGS! Esplode his probies! MWHAAA
Pardo suggests that "with Starcraft II, [Blizzard is] really going back to its roots to make a true sequel to Starcraft"--a sequel where resource management will be much more central to gameplay, with less micromanagement of different units with special abilities, and in which full-on early-game "rushing" (making an all-out assault at or near the beginning of a new game session) will be much more viable. In fact, the VP goes on to state that the game will probably offer more early "tech tree" optons--different development paths players can take by building different structures and researching different upgrades--which will make early-game scouting more important, and will make early-game rushing a more-diverse and deeper strategy.
Rushing should be part of the game, no problem. But this quote about less micromanagement of diff units with special abilities... ehh, I don't like the sound of that. So no reaver micro? Colossi aim better without intervention? No need to stim your marines and run circles around other units? No spider mine micro? No hit and run vulture vs Zealot? I hope I'm just not understanding what he's trying to say.
On May 20 2007 18:43 XCetron wrote: They need to give Terran CC a minigun on top or something so it can defend it self.
2dmg per sec or something. Doesnt make sense to have a giant floating freaking "command center" and no auto D of its own.
maybe even 1 damage per sec, just give it something.
Why do they need that? Anti-rush? Blizzard already basically said "Fuck anti-rush, noobs".
From SC2 Panel discussion on gameplay:
Pardo suggests that "with Starcraft II, [Blizzard is] really going back to its roots to make a true sequel to Starcraft"--a sequel where resource management will be much more central to gameplay, with less micromanagement of different units with special abilities, and in which full-on early-game "rushing" (making an all-out assault at or near the beginning of a new game session) will be much more viable. In fact, the VP goes on to state that the game will probably offer more early "tech tree" optons--different development paths players can take by building different structures and researching different upgrades--which will make early-game scouting more important, and will make early-game rushing a more-diverse and deeper strategy.
Rushing should be part of the game, no problem. But this quote about less micromanagement of diff units with special abilities... ehh, I don't like the sound of that. So no reaver micro? Colossi aim better without intervention? No need to stim your marines and run circles around other units? No spider mine micro? No hit and run vulture vs Zealot? I hope I'm just not understanding what he's trying to say.
Not at all what he is trying to say...like FA said:
Warcraft III 5% Macro 95% Micro
Starcraft 50% Micro 50% Macro
Thats what they will try to go for in Starcraft 2 as well (hopefully)
Protos in SC2 seem to have a role reversal thign going on. SC1: Zealot > Siege Tank > Goon SC2: Immortal > Siege Tank > Zealot
SC1: Slow build, hard to tansport in numbers SC2: Build anywhere with power
The toss will play completely differently in SC2 because of these changes.. but don't forget we know next to nothing about the Terran and the Zerg. You can expect to see changes to their abilities and tactics just as large as the changes we are seeing to the toss.
I think the new ideas for Protoss are entirely unique, original, and a fantastic creation. If they can come up with equally brilliant ideas for the other races, as well as balance it all out, the game will be one step closer to legendary.
Is it just me or did the ghosts not move before decloaking. The must be nuke proof now lol. Maybe I should watch the video again (how many more excuses can i make to watch the video again)
On May 21 2007 03:41 DeCoup wrote: Is it just me or did the ghosts not move before decloaking. The must be nuke proof now lol. Maybe I should watch the video again (how many more excuses can i make to watch the video again)
Since they can't be seen when they're cloaked it would be impossible to tell.
On May 20 2007 21:26 DeCoup wrote: Protos in SC2 seem to have a role reversal thign going on. SC1: Zealot > Siege Tank > Goon SC2: Immortal > Siege Tank > Zealot
SC1: Slow build, hard to tansport in numbers SC2: Build anywhere with power
The toss will play completely differently in SC2 because of these changes.. but don't forget we know next to nothing about the Terran and the Zerg. You can expect to see changes to their abilities and tactics just as large as the changes we are seeing to the toss.
From what I've seen and read protoss don't build their units anywhere, however they can teleport any unit to any part of their power grid. When they selected the teleport feature of the pylons it showed the numbers of each unit type that could be transported.
Either that is the number of units that are currently in the power grid or the protoss now build units like mercenaries are recruited in Warcraft.
Upon looking closer at the gameplay video:
It seems you were correct that they actually build their units anywhere they want, each zealot teleportation cost the protoss player 100 minerals. For the record this makes the whole "It's imba and skillless to select more then one production building at a time" completly null and void since protoss doesn't use them anymore at all.
This teleport recruitment thing is very different indeed. The toss were very slow to build any unit. But now they all seem to warp in at the same 1 secondish rate. I wonder if they have to 'build' units somewhere but then deploy them with the teleport function... or if they are planning on putting a delay on porting stronger units. However if the units were pre built that would make it strange that the minerals were extracted during the porting phase of deployment....