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Since there are so many people complaining about the strength of air armies (not just in this thread, but all over) I think giving late game upgrades to ground units would be best. Have fusion core as a requirement for upgrades in a tech labs on barracks and/or factory:
a) Upgrade the marauder so it has 1 shot 10 (20 vs armoured) damage instead of 2 shots 5 (10 vs armoured) damage. The protoss ground army and the ultralisks would not be as strong vs bio terran with that upgrade.
b) Give hellbats more tankiness with +2 armour.
c) A speed boost simular to the medivac's for the hellions. Make it easier to flee engagements.
d) A general movement speed bonus to cyclones.
e) Give the old anti-structure grenades to reapers. Making them a late game harass menace.
f) Give reapers the ability to dogde one projectile every 15 seconds. "Fear the reaper man". In combo with e) this would be even scarier harassment.
g) Widow mines back to always cloaked while burrowed. Overseers, observers or oracles should be available when terran has fusion core.
Those are a few ideas. The intent is not to implement them all. Giving terran access to everything would make the race OP. Just give them a couple of these.
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On March 09 2018 17:18 MockHamill wrote:
The problem with improving BC is that it might turn into another Carrier. Carriers are bad for the game since they are good against almost anything.
Another way to go is to nerf Carriers and parasitic bomb. Then Terran needs no changes and the game will be in an overall better shape.
I like this suggestion.
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Battlecruiser buff:
Change the attack to how it was in Brood War. Single powerful shots, rather than rapid fire weak shots.
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+15 HP buff would be enough to make terran lategame competitive.
A BC buff would be terrible for the game because lategame then would be just both players sitting back and massing capital ships.
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Terran late game is already over the top, this is apart from the obvious imbalanced Seeker Missile that outranges everything and instantly shoots. BC's beat Carriers and or Tempests. Anti-armour missile + Liberator + Vikings and later incorperating BC's beats Protoss air. Ghosts are super buffed and takes care of the Protoss ground. Liberators produce so insanely fast it's ridiculous. I don't mind this minor Viking buff since it would be cool to see more Terrans go Ghosts/Vikings again, but it seems more like a buff to the defence of Void Ray allins, rather than a late game buff. Speaking off.. Void Rays are so terribly bad now and with buffed Vikings, they will get even worse. I don't want Shield Batteries + Voids to end every game, but it would be nice if Protoss had some air unit that would deal with the Liberator spam.
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I'm not against BC buff if they remove the tactical jump ability because that's a joke.
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Make the AAM damage non-stackable. There's no need to nerf the damage
BC should get a buff. It's a tier 3 unit so it should be good. Buff the air attack damage but reduce the attack speed so it behaves like the BW counterpart. Add an new upgrade in fusion core where it can move and shoot at the same time.
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The viking buff is good, but not near enough to compensate for the AAM having its damage removed. I actually agree with PiG that they could wack it up to 155 or something.
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Just nerf parasitic bomb/fungal.
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1. Make Widow Mine invis again when burrowed
2. Nerf Carrier stats
3. Parasidic Bomb to be made a projectile like seeker missile
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Definitely a BC buff, would be nice for this tier 3 unit to be actually used more. You see plenty of carriers, colosus, broodlords and ultralisk, but hardly any battlecruises.
Aside from balance point of view, imho it's just bad design as well.
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On March 09 2018 19:26 ilikeredheads wrote:
Make the AAM damage non-stackable. There's no need to nerf the damage
can you explain that a little bit further? the anti-armor debuff of the the missile has a 21s duration. Does your suggestion mean that the missile can only deal dmg every 21s?
I like the proposed change to the Raven, it removes the unwanted use of the AAM as a seeker-missile but still allows mid game Raven play. (Maru vs sOs Game 3 at IEM is a good example for mid game Raven usage)
The thing is, we haven't really seen how impactful the -3 armor alone is in late game engagements.
pre 4.0 we saw Terrans go successfully for lategame in TvZ and TvP, most of the time without even building more than one or two Ravens (remember those TY games) and the lategame composition haven't really changed with 4.0, so even with the nerfed raven lategame will be at least a little bit better than pre 4.0.
The reason why we almost never see macro games in TvP is not because Terran late game is weak, no the reason is that the Terran player is either dead or super far behind before reaching the late game.
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On March 09 2018 11:39 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +Also this poll's options seem rather narrow and unrepresentative of what people have been talking about. It doesn't even include some of the most discussed options (for example removing the stacking on anti-armor missile instead). This is under the assumption that the damage nerf is going through. Removing the stacking is functionally the same as nerfing the damage---it removes missile spam from play so it still calls for a buff elsewhere (or a nerf to other races (but Blizz is proposing a buff so that's what I went with). If you think that Terran doesn't need a buff, or that the better approach is nerfing, that's fine, but I'd like to keep this poll focused on what Blizzard is most likely to implement in the next two weeks.
Since you base your poll on mere assumptions on your part there‘s no reason to take it more seriously than his stance.
Problem with Terran is that, opposed to the other two races, it lacks reliable splash damage coming from a spell caster.
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570 Posts
On March 09 2018 22:34 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 11:39 Athenau wrote:Also this poll's options seem rather narrow and unrepresentative of what people have been talking about. It doesn't even include some of the most discussed options (for example removing the stacking on anti-armor missile instead). This is under the assumption that the damage nerf is going through. Removing the stacking is functionally the same as nerfing the damage---it removes missile spam from play so it still calls for a buff elsewhere (or a nerf to other races (but Blizz is proposing a buff so that's what I went with). If you think that Terran doesn't need a buff, or that the better approach is nerfing, that's fine, but I'd like to keep this poll focused on what Blizzard is most likely to implement in the next two weeks. Since you base your poll on mere assumptions on your part there‘s no reason to take it more seriously than his stance. Problem with Terran is that, opposed to the other two races, it lacks reliable splash damage coming from a spell caster.
The assumption is based on Blizzard what actually said:
The Anti-Armor Missile is intended to combo with core units such as Marines, Marauders, Liberators, and Cyclones—not to be massed purely for damage, as is currently the case
and
At the same time, since Terrans are currently relying on the Raven for their late-game power, reducing the Anti-Armor Missile’s damage would help rein that strategy in. We think this would provide a good opportunity to give Terrans a bit more late-game help in the form of a buff to the Viking.
But hey, feel free to keep tilting at that windmill! I'm sure if you whine hard enough Blizzard will totally do an about-face on their intended role for the Raven for the last six months.
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On March 09 2018 22:54 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 22:34 Creager wrote:On March 09 2018 11:39 Athenau wrote:Also this poll's options seem rather narrow and unrepresentative of what people have been talking about. It doesn't even include some of the most discussed options (for example removing the stacking on anti-armor missile instead). This is under the assumption that the damage nerf is going through. Removing the stacking is functionally the same as nerfing the damage---it removes missile spam from play so it still calls for a buff elsewhere (or a nerf to other races (but Blizz is proposing a buff so that's what I went with). If you think that Terran doesn't need a buff, or that the better approach is nerfing, that's fine, but I'd like to keep this poll focused on what Blizzard is most likely to implement in the next two weeks. Since you base your poll on mere assumptions on your part there‘s no reason to take it more seriously than his stance. Problem with Terran is that, opposed to the other two races, it lacks reliable splash damage coming from a spell caster. The assumption is based on Blizzard what actually said: Show nested quote +The Anti-Armor Missile is intended to combo with core units such as Marines, Marauders, Liberators, and Cyclones—not to be massed purely for damage, as is currently the case and Show nested quote +At the same time, since Terrans are currently relying on the Raven for their late-game power, reducing the Anti-Armor Missile’s damage would help rein that strategy in. We think this would provide a good opportunity to give Terrans a bit more late-game help in the form of a buff to the Viking. But hey, feel free to keep tilting at that windmill! I'm sure if you whine hard enough Blizzard will totally do an about-face on their intended role for the Raven for the last six months.
On March 09 2018 11:39 Athenau wrote:
If you think that Terran doesn't need a buff, or that the better approach is nerfing, that's fine, but I'd like to keep this poll focused on what Blizzard is most likely to implement in the next two weeks.
What windmill? What the hell are you talking about? Blizzard nowhere stated they would potentially buff BCs or any other unit apart from Vikings, which your poll suggests anyway, so please stop talking out of your ass while trying to sell it as "likely to be implemented in the next two weeks".
Having multiple nerfs across a bunch of units across all races might be WAY more benefical to the game than just plain buffing, you just chose to exclude this completely by labelling these suggestions "unlikely" on your part... That's mostly what rubs me the wrong way, but yeah, try to further pat yourself on the back for being so pro-active and "constructive" here...
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I am not sure why there is a need for terran late game buff...just looking at the all ZvT late games, terran seems strong enough.
There might be some buff for PvT..but making BC stronger won't help PvT
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570 Posts
On March 10 2018 01:04 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 22:54 Athenau wrote:On March 09 2018 22:34 Creager wrote:On March 09 2018 11:39 Athenau wrote:Also this poll's options seem rather narrow and unrepresentative of what people have been talking about. It doesn't even include some of the most discussed options (for example removing the stacking on anti-armor missile instead). This is under the assumption that the damage nerf is going through. Removing the stacking is functionally the same as nerfing the damage---it removes missile spam from play so it still calls for a buff elsewhere (or a nerf to other races (but Blizz is proposing a buff so that's what I went with). If you think that Terran doesn't need a buff, or that the better approach is nerfing, that's fine, but I'd like to keep this poll focused on what Blizzard is most likely to implement in the next two weeks. Since you base your poll on mere assumptions on your part there‘s no reason to take it more seriously than his stance. Problem with Terran is that, opposed to the other two races, it lacks reliable splash damage coming from a spell caster. The assumption is based on Blizzard what actually said: The Anti-Armor Missile is intended to combo with core units such as Marines, Marauders, Liberators, and Cyclones—not to be massed purely for damage, as is currently the case and At the same time, since Terrans are currently relying on the Raven for their late-game power, reducing the Anti-Armor Missile’s damage would help rein that strategy in. We think this would provide a good opportunity to give Terrans a bit more late-game help in the form of a buff to the Viking. But hey, feel free to keep tilting at that windmill! I'm sure if you whine hard enough Blizzard will totally do an about-face on their intended role for the Raven for the last six months. Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 11:39 Athenau wrote:
If you think that Terran doesn't need a buff, or that the better approach is nerfing, that's fine, but I'd like to keep this poll focused on what Blizzard is most likely to implement in the next two weeks. What windmill? What the hell are you talking about? Blizzard nowhere stated they would potentially buff BCs or any other unit apart from Vikings, which your poll suggests anyway, so please stop talking out of your ass while trying to sell it as "likely to be implemented in the next two weeks". Having multiple nerfs across a bunch of units across all races might be WAY more benefical to the game than just plain buffing, you just chose to exclude this completely by labelling these suggestions "unlikely" on your part... That's mostly what rubs me the wrong way, but yeah, try to further pat yourself on the back for being so pro-active and "constructive" here...
Do I really need to spoon feed this to you? The windmill you're tilting at is keeping Raven damage intact, unless you mean something different by:
Problem with Terran is that, opposed to the other two races, it lacks reliable splash damage coming from a spell caster.
That ship has sailed. You can screech all you want, but it's not what Blizzard intended and they made that clear from the beginning. It's going away. Get over it.
Judging from history, they'll most likely make a numbers tweak to what they've proposed. There's a smaller chance that they'll implement some other buff because they've already said they're open to a buff. The BC buff is there because that seems to be one of most common suggestions both here and on reddit.
It's much less likely they'll implement wider-ranging nerfs, especially those that affect PvZ, even if the long term outcome might be better. They've targeted this patch for March 19th. You're out of your mind if you think there's any chance of getting "multiple nerfs across a bunch of units across all races".
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570 Posts
On March 10 2018 01:31 BigRedDog wrote:
I am not sure why there is a need for terran late game buff...just looking at the all ZvT late games, terran seems strong enough.
There might be some buff for PvT..but making BC stronger won't help PvT
Then choose option #1.
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570 Posts
I've added a second poll for nerfs even though I think it's the least likely possibility.
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I think they should buff either BCs or Ghosts.
For BCs it makes the most sense to have them fire while moving. For Ghosts, snipes should be energy free if they are cancelled by enemy fire.
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EPT
