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GuMiho: Pandemonium in a Bottle - Rank 9 - Road to BlizzCon

Forum Index > SC2 General
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GuMiho: Pandemonium in a Bottle - Rank 9 - Road to BlizzCon

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byshiroiusagi
October 17th, 2017 14:32 GMT
Photo Credit: Shayla
GuMiho
Koh Byung Jae
PSISTORM Gaming


Pandemonium in a Bottle


by Zealously


Meticulous. Medivacs and MM pushes pick apart the world’s best players and end a tournament in a stunning sweep, a symphony of annihilation. Explosive. Gumiho goes out in a blaze of glory, the game as out of control to him as it is to his opponent. Unpredictable. Unusual compositions, timings bordering on the bizarre and an unmatched potential for streaks inject a dose of fear into the bloodstream of the Korean competitive circuit. Affable. A seven-year career goes unmarred by controversy. Resilient. The ceiling of a booth collapses during a match and hits him in the head, and he proceeds to win the game after a break. Timeless. He neither burns out nor fades away.

"For a player of so many defining characteristics and fabled moments, Gumiho is a perpetual shadow over the world of competitive StarCraft."
For a player of so many defining characteristics and fabled moments, who has been praised in as many ways as he, Gumiho is a perpetual shadow over the world of competitive Starcraft. From GSL playoffs in 2011 to jaw-dropping GSTL sweeps in 2012, through his nailbiters against Losira on repeated occasions and all the way through Heart of the Swarm into the game’s current iteration, Gumiho has maintained that tinge of alacrity that sometimes fade from players that iron out their mechanical identities. Some players – most, in fact – can only thrive in the microcosm they create for themselves in-game, in which they dictate the terms. INnoVation has often been a good example, matched in the foreign scene by the 2010-2011 boneheaded game plans of IdrA. There are players who excel in their zones, who will push the boundaries when left to their own devices. Gumiho, on the other hand, has neither feared the nitty-gritty multitasking that so defined early Terran play nor shied away from the carefully planned mech play that became an almost mandatory skill once Swarm Hosts became talk of the town in Korea. Left to his own devices, Gumiho has tended to make something new for himself each time.

No, Gumiho’s shtick has always been that he has no devices. At least, none that so bind him that he becomes crippled in an unfamiliar scenario. If bio play would not do the trick and mech proved to unwieldy, Gumiho mastered the degrees in between. When nothing formulaic would cut it, Gumiho levelheadedly abandoned the algebra altogether. Instead of mastering the predictable, he has found his greatest successes in metagame flux and in games that spiral way out of control. In games that are too strict and detail-oriented, Gumiho possesses a battering ram of a playstyle that cracks anything more rigid than he. There is something a little comical in a player who gets his nickname from sweating profusely (see: hyperhidrosis) – something typically associated with nervousness or significant stress – being at his very best in panicked situations. But when a game spirals out of control, Gumiho takes the reins, and very few players have ever been able to stop him.



Winrate


66.78% vs. Terran
65.82% vs. Protoss
64.10% vs. Zerg

Rank


Circuit Standings
6

WCS Points


6800



He has been pinned as a future champion not once or twice or a dozen times over the years but countless, as revered for his adaptability as he is respected for his mechanics. That he finally joined the ranks of GSL champions in 2017 might have felt overdue for how good he has been at many points in his career, but it is also endemic to the small subset of players to which Gumiho belongs: a category that he, with his trophy and his longevity, now headlines. It is of course impossible to claim that he has always done everything better than everyone else – that Gumiho has suffered long bouts of insignificance is hardly a secret. But it is similarly impossible to claim that Gumiho has ever been helpless, or out of contention completely. Like a lightning bolt let free of its mystical bottle, he can surge skyward at a moment’s notice, only to bend over the horizon in the next. That his GSL victory came almost six years later than many of us expected was surprising, but also an incredibly fitting conclusion to his long hunt for a Starleague trophy.

All of this said, no fantastical story or unique identity pays the bills. A moderately successful stint on a CJ Entus that never lived up to its theoretical potential puts no dent in the history books. If Gumiho is characterized by his perseverance and brilliant moments burned onto our collective retina by the light of a star, then he has need for the second occurrence to cement the first. Gumiho is a champion now, and his place in the annals of the GSL can no longer be disputed, but this is rarely enough. There is need for expansion, for the next step on the perilous ladder of tournament merit. The title of champion gives Gumiho undeniable cred, but opens a door to much greater glory that might close at a moment’s notice. Each year added to the final tally of a Starcraft player’s career makes the continued investment difficult, both physically/mentally and motivationally. There is no indication that Gumiho would throw in the towel here and now, but “the next year” always tastes of unknowing and risk. What if 2017 is his best opportunity, and the Global Finals presents Gumiho with the best opportunity at immortalizing himself?

Gumiho must strike now. Not because he is at immediate risk of fading away, or because his wrists carry the immutable signs of Carpal Tunnel that seem to strike all Terrans, or because his skills are deteriorating past the point where they allow a revival.

No, this is the best opportunity for Gumiho because of who he is – lightning in a bottle, a wild storm sweeping in over land, the wild fluctuation inherent to a scene so cutthroat as to defy long-term prediction. He is the Starcraft embodiment of the double-edged sword, the equivalent of a kamikaze with a taste for survival. Gumiho was always capable of winning, always possessed the skillset necessary to do it. That it has taken him so long to get here is a byproduct of what has also given him this opportunity: the capacity for streaks, the ability to break barriers. Ask anyone what defines this player, and the answers will be polarizing. For bridging gaps between playstyles, for achieving success in Korea as well as overseas, in offline settings and online. For doing the unthinkable in one moment, falling far short of the simple in the next.

Gumiho might not be a favorite to take this trophy. Unquestionably, there are at least several players whose current forms seem better than his. But he has demonstrated championship form this year, as he has every year, and if we have learned anything from his blitzes, it is that he could very well do it again. After all, the player to eliminate him the season after his own championship victory later went on to win the event. The score between them at the time was 3-3.

Blizzcon is, in essence, year-long form pulled tight into a week-long event. Is this a boon or a hindrance for the most historically unpredictable player in the field? It will depend entirely on who shows up; whether he unleashes the lightning or leaves it locked in its bottle.








Writer: Zealously
Editor: Olli, munch
Photo Credit: DreamHack, Shayla
Statistics: Aligulac
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TL+ Member
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
October 17 2017 14:37 GMT
#2
This placement is a disgrace.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Powerfoe
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada167 Posts
October 17 2017 14:38 GMT
#3
Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.
NOW YOU SEE?
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
October 17 2017 14:45 GMT
#4
He beated Neeb's ass hard enough this year and he is still 9! Are you fcking kidding? NO NO NO NO NO.

#9! Gumiho is #9! This is so dead. I don't care too. fck it!
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15900 Posts
October 17 2017 14:48 GMT
#5
cool read. wonder if soO or Neeb comes next.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
October 17 2017 14:48 GMT
#6
I knew this would be where the fun in the comments begins.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
October 17 2017 14:53 GMT
#7
so much fun, as my quote, but so much fun and disrespectful.
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
CynicalDeath
Profile Joined January 2012
Italy3303 Posts
October 17 2017 14:53 GMT
#8
...my ocd and those Gumihos...
ModeratorSC2 LP Admin - My Life for Aiur - Let the Metal flow - @Cynical_Death
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13319 Posts
October 17 2017 14:53 GMT
#9
On October 17 2017 23:37 Ej_ wrote:
This placement is a disgrace.

http://aligulac.com/results/search/?search=&after=&before=&players=Neeb 4495
GuMiho 44&event=&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=

:D
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 14:54:34
October 17 2017 14:54 GMT
#10
It's not disrespectful to rank him here. He's fallen off a lot as of late and that factors in.

As for head to head, it remains the worst indicator of skill.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7099 Posts
October 17 2017 14:56 GMT
#11
Why do you guys feel like losing your sleep over Gumiho being lower in a pre-ranking than Neeb? Why would you care so much about a random ranking before a tournament. :D It's just a ranking, i don't think you should take it so seriously. In the end, it means nothing, only the actual tournament games. Just wait for the games to begin and we'll see who does well and who doesn't. :D
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
October 17 2017 14:56 GMT
#12
On October 17 2017 23:54 Olli wrote:
It's not disrespectful to rank him here. He's fallen off a lot as of late and that factors in.

My newest quote.
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 15:04:44
October 17 2017 15:02 GMT
#13
Actually he is right. Gumiho, he is fallen off a lot, escpecially SHOUTcraft Kings September 2017 (8 games in a row, sick 8 games!), Ballistix Brawl Finals (against Rogue and Byun? <- losers), oh, and Gosu_PvP Cup (4:0 Neeb), and Master's Coliseum 1 and TaKe's Penthouse Party 2 (3:2 Neeb, and then 4:0 Showtime). Right, so bad.
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
October 17 2017 15:05 GMT
#14
On October 17 2017 23:37 Ej_ wrote:
This placement is a disgrace.


Rofl no, it was really predictable between him and Neeb.
TL+ Member
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
October 17 2017 15:10 GMT
#15
On October 18 2017 00:05 DieuCure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 23:37 Ej_ wrote:
This placement is a disgrace.


Rofl no, it was really predictable between him and Neeb.

GSL winner vs a guy who placed lower than NoRegret.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Avicularia
Profile Joined February 2012
540 Posts
October 17 2017 15:11 GMT
#16
It does not matter what's the score in Neeb vs Gumiho. It's more about their overall form lately.
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
October 17 2017 15:14 GMT
#17
On October 18 2017 00:11 Avicularia wrote:
It's more about their overall form lately.

okay, show us the real overall from lately.
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7099 Posts
October 17 2017 15:16 GMT
#18
On October 17 2017 23:56 Luolis wrote:
Why do you guys feel like losing your sleep over Gumiho being lower in a pre-ranking than Neeb?

Re-asking my question xd
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 15:17:00
October 17 2017 15:16 GMT
#19
On October 18 2017 00:10 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 00:05 DieuCure wrote:
On October 17 2017 23:37 Ej_ wrote:
This placement is a disgrace.


Rofl no, it was really predictable between him and Neeb.

GSL winner vs a guy who placed lower than NoRegret.


Gumiho had the run of his life, then nothing in offline tournaments compared to the top top, sure they are near for the powerrank and maybe a little biaised because it's the best foreigners etc
TL+ Member
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
October 17 2017 15:19 GMT
#20
Not losing but respect. His games, it's an art style. He did so many this year, so much addictable. He rediscovered mech, tons of builds, and so much crazy things in GSL! RESPECT HIM! god damn.
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
October 17 2017 15:20 GMT
#21
Neeb would 3-0 Gumiho while being able to wear a different warchest portrait of himself every game
Neosteel Enthusiast
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7099 Posts
October 17 2017 15:22 GMT
#22
On October 18 2017 00:19 engesser1 wrote:
Not losing but respect. His games, it's an art style. He did so many this year, so much addictable. He rediscovered mech, tons of builds, and so much crazy things in GSL! RESPECT HIM! god damn.

You know you can respect him even though he was placed under neeb on a list that has no impact on what is about to come. I'm not getting my panties in a twist even though i think Serral > Elazer, because it really does not matter. Just see how the games go and chill.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
React42
Profile Joined August 2017
United States12 Posts
October 17 2017 15:23 GMT
#23
Well, I sort of figured we'd see at least one Korean (not counting True) placed below Neeb. I'll be damned if Neeb isn't next on the list though.
NyuBPrime
Profile Joined January 2017
22 Posts
October 17 2017 15:24 GMT
#24
If ranking were only defined by head to head results they would be fucked up by any "triangle" situation^^
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
October 17 2017 15:24 GMT
#25
It looks like he has been humiliated in the public square for engesser1 ...
TL+ Member
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
October 17 2017 15:25 GMT
#26
Give the opportunity to KR pros play again WCS and we'll see the real meaning of your words.
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 15:27:48
October 17 2017 15:25 GMT
#27
Gumiho is the obvious pick as the last korean, and I also think he is a better player than Neeb.

But you can look at blizzcon groups and argue that Neeb has a better shot at reaching the ro8, so putting Neeb>Gumiho can be justified in that sense
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
React42
Profile Joined August 2017
United States12 Posts
October 17 2017 15:29 GMT
#28
On October 18 2017 00:25 engesser1 wrote:
Give the opportunity to KR pros play again WCS and we'll see the real meaning of your words.


Well that's exactly what's going to happen in 10 days or so.
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
October 17 2017 15:42 GMT
#29
Code A player better than GSL winner confirmed.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
LtCalley
Profile Joined March 2011
United States244 Posts
October 17 2017 15:52 GMT
#30
On October 18 2017 00:42 Morbidius wrote:
Code A player better than GSL winner confirmed.


gumiho didn't even make it to the quarterfinals of the qualifier of the kespa cup that Neeb won. i completely fail to see your point here.
"No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you" - Homer Simpson
franzji
Profile Joined September 2013
United States581 Posts
October 17 2017 15:52 GMT
#31
stay mad TL lul
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
October 17 2017 15:54 GMT
#32
On October 18 2017 00:52 LtCalley wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 00:42 Morbidius wrote:
Code A player better than GSL winner confirmed.


gumiho didn't even make it to the quarterfinals of the qualifier of the kespa cup that Neeb won. i completely fail to see your point here.

Why isn't Mvp #1 in this power rank? I heard he was the best in the world in 2011.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
October 17 2017 15:55 GMT
#33
On October 18 2017 00:16 DieuCure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 00:10 Ej_ wrote:
On October 18 2017 00:05 DieuCure wrote:
On October 17 2017 23:37 Ej_ wrote:
This placement is a disgrace.


Rofl no, it was really predictable between him and Neeb.

GSL winner vs a guy who placed lower than NoRegret.


Gumiho had the run of his life, then nothing in offline tournaments compared to the top top, sure they are near for the powerrank and maybe a little biaised because it's the best foreigners etc

This is wrong to the point of being a straight up lie.

Neeb and GuMiho's winrates versus opponents from South Korea, starting from the day after the GSL final GuMiho won:
http://aligulac.com/players/4495/results/?after=2017-06-24&before=&event=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=
http://aligulac.com/players/44/results/?after=2017-06-25&before=&event=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=

GuMiho has higher winrate across twice as many games.
Now, let's check what happens if we remove players with 0 broadcasted offline appearances in Korea in that period from both players' records:
Neeb:
-(3-0 Natural)
-(2-0 gyulzzing)
-(2-0 Billowy)
-(10-0 TRUE)

GuMiho:
-(6-1 Billowy)
-(2-0 MyuNgSiK)
-(1-0 SuperNova)
-(2-0 Natural)
-(2-0 HerO)
-(2-0 Spear)
-(2-0 블랙맘바)
-(2-0 gyulzzing)

Neeb's record goes from 61-46 to 44-46. Yes, that's below 50%. 48,9%, to be precise.
GuMiho's record goes from 143-102 to 124-101. That is 55,1%.

I don't know when Neeb was in Korea and when in the NA so I don't have the expertise to filter his Olimoleague games where obviously he had to deal with high ping (not that playing from Europe stopped Nerchio from 2-0ing Classic).

The only 2 offline tournaments they both played in was GSL Season 3 where Neeb was eliminated in winners and losers bracket by Hurricane and GuMiho advanced from his ro32 group over Elazer twice and then lost to Solar and a rematch to INnoVation in ro16.

I know I'm just being baited by a troll that's been banned countless on reddit, but somehow barely gets actioned on this website, but this is more food for thought for anyone who thought Neeb and GuMiho were close, even excluding their lopsided H2H.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
LtCalley
Profile Joined March 2011
United States244 Posts
October 17 2017 15:56 GMT
#34
On October 18 2017 00:54 Morbidius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 00:52 LtCalley wrote:
On October 18 2017 00:42 Morbidius wrote:
Code A player better than GSL winner confirmed.


gumiho didn't even make it to the quarterfinals of the qualifier of the kespa cup that Neeb won. i completely fail to see your point here.

Why isn't Mvp #1 in this power rank? I heard he was the best in the world in 2011.


nice straw man, and a completely idiotic response to my post. but thanks for your contribution
"No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you" - Homer Simpson
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
October 17 2017 15:58 GMT
#35
On October 18 2017 00:56 LtCalley wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 00:54 Morbidius wrote:
On October 18 2017 00:52 LtCalley wrote:
On October 18 2017 00:42 Morbidius wrote:
Code A player better than GSL winner confirmed.


gumiho didn't even make it to the quarterfinals of the qualifier of the kespa cup that Neeb won. i completely fail to see your point here.

Why isn't Mvp #1 in this power rank? I heard he was the best in the world in 2011.


nice straw man, and a completely idiotic response to my post. but thanks for your contribution

God forbid i value results from 2 months ago more than what happened a year ago when judging form.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 16:02:46
October 17 2017 16:02 GMT
#36
So soO is going to be higher than Gumiho despite not winning anything in the whole year?
I think number 9 should be soO, then Gumiho/Neeb
Faker is the GOAT!
jy_9876543210
Profile Joined March 2016
265 Posts
October 17 2017 16:06 GMT
#37
OMG Neeb > Gumiho confirmed.
Phase 1: F2    Phase 2: A   Phase 3: Profit!
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
October 17 2017 16:07 GMT
#38
No, #8 is for soO, then #7 is Stats (for sure), #6 some guy who was called Dictator, #5-#2 dudes from Korea, and #1 is Neeb. Very clear.
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 17 2017 16:13 GMT
#39
I can accept Neeb ahead of GuMiho, but what in the hell has soO done to deserve being ranked ahead of him? GuMiho won the 1st Master's Coliseum since winning GSL season 2 and that's more impressive than anything soO has done since those finals.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 17 2017 16:19 GMT
#40
Now I want to see some other Korean be number 8 rather than Neeb just to see how much whining that engenders.
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
October 17 2017 16:21 GMT
#41
On October 18 2017 01:13 Boggyb wrote:
I can accept Neeb ahead of GuMiho, but what in the hell has soO done to deserve being ranked ahead of him? GuMiho won the 1st Master's Coliseum since winning GSL season 2 and that's more impressive than anything soO has done since those finals.

I heard it's all because that is someone from present writers in love (hidden) with soO.
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4903 Posts
October 17 2017 16:31 GMT
#42
Neeblet rank 1 confirmed
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Jasper_Ty
Profile Joined July 2017
101 Posts
October 17 2017 16:35 GMT
#43
I disagree with GuMiho being ranked this low.

I wanted to read Neeb's article today.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13970 Posts
October 17 2017 16:45 GMT
#44
On October 17 2017 23:48 Olli wrote:
I knew this would be where the fun in the comments begins.

Just wait until you rank Innovation above stats....
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
October 17 2017 16:57 GMT
#45
I can still see herO, soO and TY below Neeb so this should make for some fun drama.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
D-light
Profile Joined April 2012
Finland7364 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 17:18:53
October 17 2017 17:18 GMT
#46
On October 18 2017 01:57 Morbidius wrote:
I can still see herO, soO and TY below Neeb so this should make for some fun drama.

And luckily that won't be happening.
why even
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13970 Posts
October 17 2017 17:24 GMT
#47
On October 18 2017 01:57 Morbidius wrote:
I can still see herO, soO and TY below Neeb so this should make for some fun drama.

herO and TY yes, soO no way
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
October 17 2017 17:26 GMT
#48
On October 18 2017 02:18 D-light wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 01:57 Morbidius wrote:
I can still see herO, soO and TY below Neeb so this should make for some fun drama.

And luckily that won't be happening.

Or so we hope.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
dankobanana
Profile Joined February 2016
Croatia237 Posts
October 17 2017 17:26 GMT
#49
to all who link head to head on aligulac, bare in mind that Taeja deserves his all time rank by that metric :D
Battle is waged in the name of the many. The brave, who generation after generation choose the mantle of - Dark Templar!
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
October 17 2017 17:33 GMT
#50
On October 18 2017 02:26 dankobanana wrote:
to all who link head to head on aligulac, bare in mind that Taeja deserves his all time rank by that metric :D

Taeja as the GOAT? I have no problems with that.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 17 2017 17:35 GMT
#51
On October 18 2017 02:24 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 01:57 Morbidius wrote:
I can still see herO, soO and TY below Neeb so this should make for some fun drama.

herO and TY yes, soO no way

Uh, soO is the weakest of those 3 in terms of form over the previous 3 or so months.
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28465 Posts
October 17 2017 17:38 GMT
#52
poor Gumi

again
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
October 17 2017 17:42 GMT
#53
I am not sure if I would define Gumiho as being sort of bland and without particular characteristics, which it seems like the article is doing, because for me Gumi has a lot of character and flair in his play. His aggressive mech, his crazy but clever strategies. He's actually fun which seems to be totally contrary to how Terran players like to play. And he's smart, which Terrans are hardly known for.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 17:52:41
October 17 2017 17:44 GMT
#54
So it is Gumiho who brings disgrace upon his country! I figured he would be the one to rank below a foreigner.

Lmao at all this controversy though. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO. Will Gumiho's disgrace be shared with his countrymen or will he bear it all alone?
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 17 2017 17:52 GMT
#55
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
Sakat
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
Croatia1599 Posts
October 17 2017 17:55 GMT
#56
Can't wait for GuMiho to be eliminated by Serral and TRUE
My boy Ptak defeated two GSL champions!
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 17 2017 17:56 GMT
#57
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.

TY made the Ro8 of every season of GSL. Gumiho did not. Throughout 2017, TY has been second only to INnoVation in the "best Terran" conversation.

And I did say that TY could very well be ranked next.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 18:28:39
October 17 2017 18:24 GMT
#58
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?

Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
October 17 2017 18:25 GMT
#59
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 17 2017 18:30 GMT
#60
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 17 2017 18:35 GMT
#61
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.

At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
October 17 2017 18:37 GMT
#62
On October 17 2017 23:38 Powerfoe wrote:
Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.


i mean, neeb also won a gsl like touranment, probably a slightly easier one, but he didnt took as many tries as gumiho.

i totally agree with this placement. wouldn't be surprised to see soO next.
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13319 Posts
October 17 2017 18:41 GMT
#63
On October 18 2017 03:37 KalWarkov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 23:38 Powerfoe wrote:
Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.


i mean, neeb also won a gsl like touranment, probably a slightly easier one, but he didnt took as many tries as gumiho.

i totally agree with this placement. wouldn't be surprised to see soO next.

KeSPA Cup is nothing like GSL, just ask soO.
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
DSh1
Profile Joined April 2017
292 Posts
October 17 2017 18:42 GMT
#64
On October 18 2017 01:13 Boggyb wrote:
I can accept Neeb ahead of GuMiho, but what in the hell has soO done to deserve being ranked ahead of him? GuMiho won the 1st Master's Coliseum since winning GSL season 2 and that's more impressive than anything soO has done since those finals.


Soo wrote an article saying he will practice more for BlizzCon and have GSL Season 1+2 form.

Also: Personally I tend to think TY a tad below Gumiho though since WESG was so far back then. But overall I find this power rank so far quite okay.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15900 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 18:44:46
October 17 2017 18:43 GMT
#65
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
October 17 2017 19:04 GMT
#66
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
rrrzzz
Profile Joined February 2016
48 Posts
October 17 2017 19:11 GMT
#67
He might be not the strongest terran player, but his game is most fun to watch! Love gumiho's mech games!
Toudeleski
Profile Joined August 2011
United States66 Posts
October 17 2017 19:35 GMT
#68
Just more fanfiction
glhf
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 17 2017 19:48 GMT
#69
On October 18 2017 03:37 KalWarkov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 23:38 Powerfoe wrote:
Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.


i mean, neeb also won a gsl like touranment, probably a slightly easier one, but he didnt took as many tries as gumiho.

i totally agree with this placement. wouldn't be surprised to see soO next.


Firstly, that was a year ago. The amount that a single victory can indicate current form decreases over time. Results from before the big patch last year hold no value.

And secondly, Neeb did not win a GSL-like tournament. He did indeed take korean PvP by storm with his superior expirience of disruptor-stalker control, and he did indeed win a korean tournament with it. And while that is an incredible achievment, it's not on the same level as winning GSL. In fact it's not even close.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Mun_Su
Profile Joined December 2012
France2063 Posts
October 17 2017 19:59 GMT
#70
Gumi just beat down neeb when they meet I really dont agree with this ranking.

But what a great read ! Especially the first paragraph Zealousy. Gratz
INno <3 - TY - Maru - Taeja - Rain <3 - Classic <3 - Stephano <3 - soO <3 - Soulkey - Dark - SERRAL =O / END REGION LOCK
Loccstana
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States833 Posts
October 17 2017 20:18 GMT
#71
We were so close to having Ryung take Gumiho's place.
[url]http://i.imgur.com/lw2yN.jpg[/url]
Divain
Profile Joined November 2014
France17 Posts
October 17 2017 20:31 GMT
#72
TL rankings have always been wrong anyway...
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 17 2017 20:57 GMT
#73
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
October 17 2017 20:59 GMT
#74
On October 18 2017 05:57 pvsnp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.


Classic pvsnp Liquid bias
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24192 Posts
October 17 2017 21:01 GMT
#75
Don’t agree with that. See Ej’s posts for a lot of good reasons. Neeb is getting overhyped imo.
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 21:07:15
October 17 2017 21:05 GMT
#76
On October 18 2017 05:31 Divain wrote:
TL rankings have always been wrong anyway...


I can't hear you over the sound of Naniwa > INnoVation

On October 18 2017 04:35 Toudeleski wrote:
Just more fanfiction


In the interest of quality for next year, I'm interested in what you would have liked to read about. What focus?
AdministratorBreak the chains
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 17 2017 21:15 GMT
#77
On October 18 2017 05:57 pvsnp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.


TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Rob-Zero
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany454 Posts
October 17 2017 21:21 GMT
#78
Oh man, thanks guys, that 4 pages i read were pure fun. Maybe just calm down a bit about a Ranking that has absolutely nothing to say. I like Gumiho and i think that was a great read, thanks for that. I personally dont think Neeb is better, but hey, its okay, the ro8 will be 8 koreans most likely anyway.
Dark Age of Camelot - I miss you
Zzzapper
Profile Joined September 2011
1791 Posts
October 17 2017 21:24 GMT
#79
I don't know about this one, I still think TvZ is Gumi's only real achilles heel. His TvT is great, maybe only second to Inno and his TvP is up there too.
That said, Gumi is in a group with Serral who's looked great vT lately and Inno who's obviously gonna be a challenge so there's a real chance that he doesn't make it out.
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
October 17 2017 21:33 GMT
#80
soO or Neeb next I think, probably not fair to rank Neeb higher than anyone else other than soO even if he has been completely dominant in WCS and is number 1 on aligulac.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 21:55:48
October 17 2017 21:48 GMT
#81
On October 18 2017 06:15 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 05:57 pvsnp wrote:
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.


TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh

Clearly another case of egregious Liquid bias.

TRUE is the one true GOAT. The throne is his by rights. All those who deny that are my foes.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
DBooN
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2727 Posts
October 17 2017 21:58 GMT
#82
On October 18 2017 06:33 Zaros wrote:
soO or Neeb next I think, probably not fair to rank Neeb higher than anyone else other than soO even if he has been completely dominant in WCS and is number 1 on aligulac.

I mean ... soO wasn't even in all GSL finals this year and neeb was only one game away from qualifying for it, so it's only fair to rank him higher.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
October 17 2017 22:00 GMT
#83
honestly I have neeb at #3 in my power rankings so it doesn't bother me too much for him to be ahead of gumiho
xongnox
Profile Joined November 2011
540 Posts
October 17 2017 22:04 GMT
#84
Don't understand the popular #8 place prediction for soO, he should obviously get the #2 rank :D

However, still a good read for a fabulous player.

LtCalley
Profile Joined March 2011
United States244 Posts
October 17 2017 22:22 GMT
#85
On October 18 2017 04:48 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 03:37 KalWarkov wrote:
On October 17 2017 23:38 Powerfoe wrote:
Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.


i mean, neeb also won a gsl like touranment, probably a slightly easier one, but he didnt took as many tries as gumiho.

i totally agree with this placement. wouldn't be surprised to see soO next.


Firstly, that was a year ago. The amount that a single victory can indicate current form decreases over time. Results from before the big patch last year hold no value.

And secondly, Neeb did not win a GSL-like tournament. He did indeed take korean PvP by storm with his superior expirience of disruptor-stalker control, and he did indeed win a korean tournament with it. And while that is an incredible achievment, it's not on the same level as winning GSL. In fact it's not even close.


i'd argue that it's on the same level as winning a GSL, just different format. "In fact," it's an opinion.
"No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you" - Homer Simpson
scoo2r
Profile Joined December 2015
Canada90 Posts
October 17 2017 22:26 GMT
#86
Gumiho is saving his best builds for blizzcon.
Another day, another depot.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 17 2017 23:08 GMT
#87
On October 18 2017 07:22 LtCalley wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 04:48 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:37 KalWarkov wrote:
On October 17 2017 23:38 Powerfoe wrote:
Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.


i mean, neeb also won a gsl like touranment, probably a slightly easier one, but he didnt took as many tries as gumiho.

i totally agree with this placement. wouldn't be surprised to see soO next.


Firstly, that was a year ago. The amount that a single victory can indicate current form decreases over time. Results from before the big patch last year hold no value.

And secondly, Neeb did not win a GSL-like tournament. He did indeed take korean PvP by storm with his superior expirience of disruptor-stalker control, and he did indeed win a korean tournament with it. And while that is an incredible achievment, it's not on the same level as winning GSL. In fact it's not even close.


i'd argue that it's on the same level as winning a GSL, just different format. "In fact," it's an opinion.


Go ahead and argue it, I'm yet to see any reason other than "they're both in korea".
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 23:15:01
October 17 2017 23:13 GMT
#88
On October 18 2017 00:56 LtCalley wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 00:54 Morbidius wrote:
On October 18 2017 00:52 LtCalley wrote:
On October 18 2017 00:42 Morbidius wrote:
Code A player better than GSL winner confirmed.


gumiho didn't even make it to the quarterfinals of the qualifier of the kespa cup that Neeb won. i completely fail to see your point here.

Why isn't Mvp #1 in this power rank? I heard he was the best in the world in 2011.


nice straw man, and a completely idiotic response to my post. but thanks for your contribution

I'm going to be honest, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who defaults to just saying inane things like 'nice straw man.' Why don't you try explaining your point instead of being even more awful than the person you chastise?
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
leublix
Profile Joined May 2017
493 Posts
October 17 2017 23:23 GMT
#89
On October 18 2017 03:35 pvsnp wrote:
They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.

At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.


Well, the power ranking should be more about current form then overall season achievements. TY clearly (imo) had a better year than gumiho but he didn't look particularly strong lately.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 23:43:19
October 17 2017 23:40 GMT
#90
On October 18 2017 08:23 leublix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 03:35 pvsnp wrote:
They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.

At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.


Well, the power ranking should be more about current form then overall season achievements. TY clearly (imo) had a better year than gumiho but he didn't look particularly strong lately.

Gumiho's most recent offline trophy was winning GSL Season 2. Since then he has gotten no further than the Ro16 of any big tournament.

TY's most recent offline trophy was way back in March. But while Gumiho's been dropping out in the Ro16, TY has gotten to the quarterfinals of GSL S3, the semifinals of IEM Shanghai, and the finals of GSL vs the World.

Gumiho plays some online stuff, but TY basically never does, so it's hard to draw any conclusions from that. On the balance, I would put TY > Gumiho more than the other way around.

On October 18 2017 07:22 LtCalley wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 04:48 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:37 KalWarkov wrote:
On October 17 2017 23:38 Powerfoe wrote:
Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.


i mean, neeb also won a gsl like touranment, probably a slightly easier one, but he didnt took as many tries as gumiho.

i totally agree with this placement. wouldn't be surprised to see soO next.


Firstly, that was a year ago. The amount that a single victory can indicate current form decreases over time. Results from before the big patch last year hold no value.

And secondly, Neeb did not win a GSL-like tournament. He did indeed take korean PvP by storm with his superior expirience of disruptor-stalker control, and he did indeed win a korean tournament with it. And while that is an incredible achievment, it's not on the same level as winning GSL. In fact it's not even close.


i'd argue that it's on the same level as winning a GSL, just different format. "In fact," it's an opinion.

You would be wrong.

It is most certainly a fact that a KeSPA Cup takes place over a few days while a GSL Season spans a few months. Starleagues outrank any weekender for that exact reason. It's far more difficult to stay in top form for several months than it is for several days.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
barcodeno1
Profile Joined October 2017
20 Posts
October 18 2017 00:14 GMT
#91
code A > code S champion lol
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 18 2017 00:34 GMT
#92
On October 18 2017 08:40 pvsnp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 08:23 leublix wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:35 pvsnp wrote:
They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.

At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.


Well, the power ranking should be more about current form then overall season achievements. TY clearly (imo) had a better year than gumiho but he didn't look particularly strong lately.

Gumiho's most recent offline trophy was winning GSL Season 2. Since then he has gotten no further than the Ro16 of any big tournament.

TY's most recent offline trophy was way back in March. But while Gumiho's been dropping out in the Ro16, TY has gotten to the quarterfinals of GSL S3, the semifinals of IEM Shanghai, and the finals of GSL vs the World.

Gumiho plays some online stuff, but TY basically never does, so it's hard to draw any conclusions from that. On the balance, I would put TY > Gumiho more than the other way around.

-TY's ro16 GSL S3 was by far the easiest of the 4, so getting one round further than GuMiho isn't that impressive.
-That IEM Shanghai semifinals came off the back of beating Dark and nobody else of note. (Yes, he beat iAsonu which GuMiho didn't, but he had the benefit of being able to watch his ZvT before the series which GuMiho did not)
-TY beat absolutely nobody of note at GSL vs The World and that tournament was a complete joke due to being a popularity contest. (Scarlett and Showtime at an event that is supposedly pitting the top non-Koreans against the top Koreans? Scarlett brings world class whining and nothing else. Showtime isn't close to the player he was in 2016)

TY does play in some online tournaments. Take a look at one of the only major online tournaments: Master's Coliseum.
-GuMiho won the 1st which included eliminating TY in the group stages.
-GuMiho made the ro8 in the 2nd while TY was eliminated in the group stages though TY's group was by far the hardest. (he went 2-6 in maps though and finished last...)
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
October 18 2017 00:55 GMT
#93
I feel pain for those pros players who've tried to read this ranking. Probably it gives some dismoral for them.

Neeb is cool lil dude, no questions. I respect him, as like others. But from another side I can't say this is right thing to put him above Gumiho. Gumiho has a style. Unique style. And it's fair to say it. He got his nickname gumiGOD no just because it was a lame joke. Look what have he done. Created so many things for us and he won GSL. People copy him and calling him gumiGOD. While Neeb is just copying someone the whole year. And can't beat terran's ass on ladder. I watched so many ladder games with him against Maru (5-0 one day) or Cure (9-3 another day). It was a disaster for him. But somehow people saying, hey, he is better then Gumiho. It's wrong not to say from community to Gumiho that he is doing it right for so long time, and finlally he made it, he is on top.
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
starkiller123
Profile Joined January 2016
United States4030 Posts
October 18 2017 00:59 GMT
#94
On October 18 2017 09:55 engesser1 wrote:
I feel pain for those pros players who've tried to read this ranking. Probably it gives some dismoral for them.

Neeb is cool lil dude, no questions. I respect him, as like others. But from another side I can't say this is right thing to put him above Gumiho. Gumiho has a style. Unique style. And it's fair to say it. He got his nickname gumiGOD no just because it was a lame joke. Look what have he done. Created so many things for us and he won GSL. People copy him and calling him gumiGOD. While Neeb is just copying someone the whole year. And can't beat terran's ass on ladder. I watched so many ladder games with him against Maru (5-0 one day) or Cure (9-3 another day). It was a disaster for him. But somehow people saying, hey, he is better then Gumiho. It's wrong not to say from community to Gumiho that he is doing it right for so long time, and finlally he made it, he is on top.


yup this article is clearly saying that Gumiho is a lame joke

please try harder
onPHYRE
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria892 Posts
October 18 2017 01:07 GMT
#95
I think so much is dependent on match ups/the groups - that it is pointless to get too hung up on 1-2 spot differences in power rankings. I get it.. they are fun, but in the end the players that can perform in the moment will be made clear in the next couple of weeks.
Livin' this life like it was written.
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
October 18 2017 01:14 GMT
#96
On October 18 2017 05:57 pvsnp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.


Some nice liquid bias you got going there. Otherwise you'd go to the next logical step that Flash beats Taeja H2H.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-18 01:28:15
October 18 2017 01:22 GMT
#97
On October 18 2017 09:34 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 08:40 pvsnp wrote:
On October 18 2017 08:23 leublix wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:35 pvsnp wrote:
They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.

At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.


Well, the power ranking should be more about current form then overall season achievements. TY clearly (imo) had a better year than gumiho but he didn't look particularly strong lately.

Gumiho's most recent offline trophy was winning GSL Season 2. Since then he has gotten no further than the Ro16 of any big tournament.

TY's most recent offline trophy was way back in March. But while Gumiho's been dropping out in the Ro16, TY has gotten to the quarterfinals of GSL S3, the semifinals of IEM Shanghai, and the finals of GSL vs the World.

Gumiho plays some online stuff, but TY basically never does, so it's hard to draw any conclusions from that. On the balance, I would put TY > Gumiho more than the other way around.

-TY's ro16 GSL S3 was by far the easiest of the 4, so getting one round further than GuMiho isn't that impressive.
-That IEM Shanghai semifinals came off the back of beating Dark and nobody else of note. (Yes, he beat iAsonu which GuMiho didn't, but he had the benefit of being able to watch his ZvT before the series which GuMiho did not)
-TY beat absolutely nobody of note at GSL vs The World and that tournament was a complete joke due to being a popularity contest. (Scarlett and Showtime at an event that is supposedly pitting the top non-Koreans against the top Koreans? Scarlett brings world class whining and nothing else. Showtime isn't close to the player he was in 2016)

TY does play in some online tournaments. Take a look at one of the only major online tournaments: Master's Coliseum.
-GuMiho won the 1st which included eliminating TY in the group stages.
-GuMiho made the ro8 in the 2nd while TY was eliminated in the group stages though TY's group was by far the hardest. (he went 2-6 in maps though and finished last...)

So, what I take from this is that....TY doesn't have the best results, but they are still better than Gumiho's. Offline > Online every day of the week.

Beating Dark in a series is quite the achievement, given that Dark is either the greatest or second-greatest Zerg currently playing. It's also something that Gumiho has never managed to do–Dark 8-0 Gumiho in career records. Also, TY beat Neeb and soO to get to the GSL vs the World finals. If you want to call soO, outside of a finals no less, "absolutely nobody of note" then I think it's safe to discount Gumiho's GSL Season 2 trophy as well.

Ergo, TY > Gumiho.

On October 18 2017 10:14 Phredxor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 05:57 pvsnp wrote:
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.


Some nice liquid bias you got going there. Otherwise you'd go to the next logical step that Flash beats Taeja H2H.

Sorry friend, but Fango beat you to the party:

On October 18 2017 06:15 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 05:57 pvsnp wrote:
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.


TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh


On October 18 2017 06:48 pvsnp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 06:15 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 05:57 pvsnp wrote:
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.


TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh

Clearly another case of egregious Liquid bias.

TRUE is the one true GOAT. The throne is his by rights. All those who deny that are my foes.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
October 18 2017 01:25 GMT
#98
Rats. I'll allow it though.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 18 2017 01:30 GMT
#99
On October 18 2017 10:25 Phredxor wrote:
Rats. I'll allow it though.

Tbh I only embraced TRUE for the puns. Also because I couldn't resist slipping in that shoutout.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
blind429
Profile Joined September 2010
37 Posts
October 18 2017 02:54 GMT
#100
GuMiGoaT
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
October 18 2017 05:00 GMT
#101
On October 18 2017 10:22 pvsnp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 09:34 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 08:40 pvsnp wrote:
On October 18 2017 08:23 leublix wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:35 pvsnp wrote:
They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.

At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.


Well, the power ranking should be more about current form then overall season achievements. TY clearly (imo) had a better year than gumiho but he didn't look particularly strong lately.

Gumiho's most recent offline trophy was winning GSL Season 2. Since then he has gotten no further than the Ro16 of any big tournament.

TY's most recent offline trophy was way back in March. But while Gumiho's been dropping out in the Ro16, TY has gotten to the quarterfinals of GSL S3, the semifinals of IEM Shanghai, and the finals of GSL vs the World.

Gumiho plays some online stuff, but TY basically never does, so it's hard to draw any conclusions from that. On the balance, I would put TY > Gumiho more than the other way around.

-TY's ro16 GSL S3 was by far the easiest of the 4, so getting one round further than GuMiho isn't that impressive.
-That IEM Shanghai semifinals came off the back of beating Dark and nobody else of note. (Yes, he beat iAsonu which GuMiho didn't, but he had the benefit of being able to watch his ZvT before the series which GuMiho did not)
-TY beat absolutely nobody of note at GSL vs The World and that tournament was a complete joke due to being a popularity contest. (Scarlett and Showtime at an event that is supposedly pitting the top non-Koreans against the top Koreans? Scarlett brings world class whining and nothing else. Showtime isn't close to the player he was in 2016)

TY does play in some online tournaments. Take a look at one of the only major online tournaments: Master's Coliseum.
-GuMiho won the 1st which included eliminating TY in the group stages.
-GuMiho made the ro8 in the 2nd while TY was eliminated in the group stages though TY's group was by far the hardest. (he went 2-6 in maps though and finished last...)

So, what I take from this is that....TY doesn't have the best results, but they are still better than Gumiho's. Offline > Online every day of the week.

Beating Dark in a series is quite the achievement, given that Dark is either the greatest or second-greatest Zerg currently playing. It's also something that Gumiho has never managed to do–Dark 8-0 Gumiho in career records. Also, TY beat Neeb and soO to get to the GSL vs the World finals. If you want to call soO, outside of a finals no less, "absolutely nobody of note" then I think it's safe to discount Gumiho's GSL Season 2 trophy as well.

Ergo, TY > Gumiho.

Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 10:14 Phredxor wrote:
On October 18 2017 05:57 pvsnp wrote:
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.


Some nice liquid bias you got going there. Otherwise you'd go to the next logical step that Flash beats Taeja H2H.

Sorry friend, but Fango beat you to the party:

Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 06:15 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 05:57 pvsnp wrote:
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote:
Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.

Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.

A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.


TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh


Show nested quote +
On October 18 2017 06:48 pvsnp wrote:
On October 18 2017 06:15 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 05:57 pvsnp wrote:
On October 18 2017 04:04 Heartland wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:30 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:25 Olli wrote:
On October 18 2017 03:24 Fango wrote:
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote:
[quote]
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.


You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win


2 wins, WESG too.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason

he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho


bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill

Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.

It is known.


TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh

Clearly another case of egregious Liquid bias.

TRUE is the one true GOAT. The throne is his by rights. All those who deny that are my foes.

Gumiho beat TY in his GSL win
Faker is the GOAT!
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-18 07:13:17
October 18 2017 07:11 GMT
#102
"kamikaze with a taste for survival"

excellent, good job

gumiho had such an unique career, this guy winning so few (tournaments) is an anomaly
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
Divain
Profile Joined November 2014
France17 Posts
October 18 2017 08:25 GMT
#103
Throughout all his career, Neeb has never defeated a Korean Terran player in an offline tournament.
YamiRi
Profile Joined September 2015
152 Posts
October 18 2017 09:10 GMT
#104
Raise your towels!... I hope Gumiho could take down Inno to deny him for winning Blizzcon..
I don't see anyone with better chance than Gumiho
Mun_Su
Profile Joined December 2012
France2063 Posts
October 18 2017 09:11 GMT
#105
On October 18 2017 17:25 Divain wrote:
Throughout all his career, Neeb has never defeated a Korean Terran player in an offline tournament.



At first you make me laugh but then I checked...
INno <3 - TY - Maru - Taeja - Rain <3 - Classic <3 - Stephano <3 - soO <3 - Soulkey - Dark - SERRAL =O / END REGION LOCK
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
October 18 2017 11:09 GMT
#106
On October 18 2017 17:25 Divain wrote:
Throughout all his career, Neeb has never defeated a Korean Terran player in an offline tournament.

GOAT foreigner boys.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
IArako
Profile Joined June 2015
Germany195 Posts
October 18 2017 11:58 GMT
#107
On October 18 2017 17:25 Divain wrote:
Throughout all his career, Neeb has never defeated a Korean Terran player in an offline tournament.


He didnt have many opportunities to play vs koreans offline during his prime tho because of region lock
Special Tactics
zealotstim
Profile Joined February 2015
United States455 Posts
October 18 2017 12:47 GMT
#108
lol I had a feeling...
Still, (T)GuMiho is going to be in form for blizzcon. It's too important not to be.
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 18 2017 13:54 GMT
#109
On October 18 2017 21:47 zealotstim wrote:
lol I had a feeling...
Still, (T)GuMiho is going to be in form for blizzcon. It's too important not to be.

Tell that to the Koreans who showed up to WCS Global Finals last year and played like garbage.
Yo_Man
Profile Joined May 2017
43 Posts
October 18 2017 19:56 GMT
#110
is this ranking so we could put a TRUE korean below Neeb and save face ?
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
October 18 2017 20:06 GMT
#111
On October 19 2017 04:56 Yo_Man wrote:
is this ranking so we could put a TRUE korean below Neeb and save face ?


"True Korean" is such a hilarious thing to say
AdministratorBreak the chains
Veluvian
Profile Joined December 2011
Bulgaria256 Posts
October 18 2017 20:31 GMT
#112
Neeb has a good chance in his group with zergs. Probably he will never be solid like soO /or anyone else/, but soO never got enough energy left for the end of the years and worlds championsihps. Rogue is on fire. Still, Neeb looked so unreal and above all non-koreans this year.
In order to be the best or one of the very very top in this game, you have to cross three phases. In the first phase you are just a very good and achieved player, like idra, huk, Stephano and etc. in the second phase is where Neeb stands right now. He knows how to fight with koreans and beats them. The third phase is where he must DOMINATE against korreans and he hasn't proved this yet. So Neeb holds his future and we shall see what is really made of. Winning Kespa cup is an achievement that we cannot compare it with anything else, I mean even Grrr.... is from another age of e-sports while metagame was still on its origin. Still Neeb misses the dominance and this is what is the next step of the evolution for him, because still no non-korean made it possible. Need only made something that Naniwa and Jinro couldn't in Code S.

This chat in the previous article with the rankings of Gumiho and Neeb was surprising. I am sure that both of them don't care that much. But who is more achieved? A Code S champion, and ALL-Kill in GSTL against all Slayers? Yeah, Gumiho was a shadow for all of those 7 years in Korea, but he is far more successful than Neeb, who still has a lot to prove. And he has the potential, but we will see.
Oz; MMA; Rain; sOs; Classic, Soulkey, TY, Dark
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-19 06:50:03
October 19 2017 06:48 GMT
#113
All im saying is. Now that Life is gone and sOs is watching from home, Gumiho is the best player in the game in chaotic low econ situations. Gumiho is an agent of chaos and if he can introduce a little anarchy [image loading]

He can win this thing.

User was warned for this post
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-19 14:35:05
October 19 2017 14:31 GMT
#114
I feel like Gumiho is this year's Neeb. He won a single tournament with amazing bracket luck, and then everyone overhyped him despite most of his results being mediocre (he only reached ro8 3 times in the whole year)

+ Show Spoiler +

Just kidding, Neeb is this year's Neeb
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
SHODAN
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom1060 Posts
October 23 2017 21:18 GMT
#115
bookmarked this thread. I'll be back to make fun of people when GuMi wins blizzcon. smell ya later
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
October 23 2017 22:49 GMT
#116
I wonder if Gumiho is still in top form for Blizzcon
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
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