• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:13
CEST 06:13
KST 13:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202512Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder2EWC 2025 - Replay Pack2Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced27BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins EWC 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Shield Battery Server New Patch BW General Discussion [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 514 users

Elazer: The Unending Rebellion - Rank 10 - Road to BlizzCon

Forum Index > SC2 General
43 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

Elazer: The Unending Rebellion - Rank 10 - Road to BlizzCon

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byshiroiusagi
October 16th, 2017 13:24 GMT
Photo Credit: DreamHack
Elazer
Mikołaj Ogonowski
Team Qlash


The Unending Rebellion


by Soularion


The current implementation of the WCS Circuit came too late. That was the opinion lurking in the shadows of the scene as 2016 reared up, with world-class stars such as Stephano and NaNiwa so far past their primes as to be rendered irrelevant. Even when 2015 came, look at the list of foreigners who made it to a quarterfinal in a WCS competition that year: Kane, TLO, ShoWTimE, Snute, Bunny, Lilbow, MarineLorD, Zanster, GunGFuBanDa, Petraeus, MaNa. If you told someone from that year that only two or three of those players would continue to be relevant at an elite level even a year later, they'd be dumbfounded. It becomes even sillier when one realizes that the two players who have replaced this breed of players as championship stars in 2017 were Neeb and Elazer. Neeb, who had been a borderline Ro.16 player for enough years to become predictable, and Elazer, who was thoroughly dissected by Hitman's brand of protoss cheese in the Round of 32, and only advanced due to what was effectively a miracle. But here Elazer is. One of three foreigners to win a WCS championship in the post-Schism era, and the only zerg. Not Snute. Not Nerchio. Not Serral. Not Zanster, who was a game away from being the favorite in the finals of 2015. It's Elazer.

"Elazer at his greatest embodies this sense of boundless ambition more than most foreigners ever could."
What's happened in a year to shift opinions so drastically? There's nothing quite as severe as a changing of calendars to make perfectly valid opinions seem so utterly inane. One year, Zanster is a borderline superstar in the foreign scene, and MaNa is on the verge of rediscovering the dominant protoss he once was. The next, both are irrelevant at the highest tier of competition. Elazer has known this more than almost anyone; in 2014, he didn't exist at all. He played matches, surely, and was even signed to a team, but did anyone bother to learn his name? Yet, hardly two years later, it was the taste lingering on people's tongues as he ascended to the semifinals of BlizzCon over the well-decorated and overwhelming favorite ShoWTimE. But even then, it was all so easy to discredit. He only beat foreigners, people squeaked. He was crushed by Dark. It wasn't even close. He won't make it there again, anyway.

But the changing of years came again, and it was merciless. Elazer has never been gifted a golden road. He lost in the qualifiers of WCS Austin to Bly, and one could almost taste the validation in the air; he didn't even attend the event. He was just another fading star. Just another dying breath. But Elazer's played too many games to be only that. He's tried too hard. To put their difference in mentalities into perspective, Elazer has already played twice as many games as NaNiwa in his young and largely fruitless career; the youth of now cares deeply about taking advantage of the deepened tournament scene, online and otherwise, and Elazer embodies the youth of now more than anyone. When he returned to the qualifiers for Jönköping, it was with the winds of glory in his lungs. He came back against ShoWTimE. He crushed Nerchio, and qualifier star Namshar. Elazer at his greatest embodies this sense of boundless ambition more than most foreigners ever could, of unstoppable dreams and unhalted victories. It's interesting to see Kelazhur and Elazer end up in the same group as, for all of his great play, Kelazhur has never quite been able to win the battle against fate. Yet it is Elazer who triumphs, over and over again, in the face of the worst odds and the most heart-aching of matchups. It is Elazer who eliminated Nerchio when the Blizzcon quarters are on the line. It is Elazer who doomed ShoWTimE to failure, both at Blizzcon and at Jönköping qualifiers. It is Elazer who stole Nerchio's thunder at WCS Valencia.



Winrate


67.66% vs. Terran
69.89% vs. Protoss
61.39% vs. Zerg

Rank


Circuit Standings
2

WCS Points


5245



It is Elazer who crushed the heart and soul of the foreign scene, Snute, coming back from being 3-1 down in his first ever finals. With nerves of steel and a heart of iron, it was Elazer who stood on that stage and lifted that trophy. Even at WCS Montreal, he took revenge on Serral, who had eliminated him from Austin and often dominated him early in the year. Even with all of this success, though, Elazer finds himself in the shadows. Sure, he is king within the shadows; he is the second-most accomplished foreigner of the year. But there is a 'second' next to the title he's so diligently sought. Without a single match played against Neeb, Elazer has been held back by him; he's been relegated to a rebel. Because that is the way of the StarCraft scene. Your accomplishments last year do not matter. Elazer was the last foreigner standing; last year. People are not loyal to the past, and only become less loyal as it grows with distance. People are loyal to tyranny, and tyranny only. Only by being absolutely dominant can one win over trust, the way Neeb has - and not Elazer. Never Elazer. Regardless of his unrelenting effort, of his trips to Korea, of his upsets of GuMiho and Stats online- he is the rebellion. It is in his blood. It was in his blood ever since he upset all those the audience loved to become the Dark Horse at Blizzcon - he was not Dark Horse because people adored him. He was not Dark Horse because he was favored, but people were too shy to say it. He was Dark Horse because every other horse was dead. In hindsight, it's been his birthright for much longer than just the Global Finals; he shouldn't have been at that BlizzCon at all, with many rooting for uThermal to make the upset over him in the dying moments. But that was never to be.

In 2016, Elazer learned that a peasant's only claim to fame is by being a rebel; in 2017, he learned that rebels can never be King. He won WCS Valencia, and Neeb still won three tournaments in the year and utterly dwarfed his accomplishments, without a single head to head between them. Serral arguably gets more claim to fame, because he was the promised prince; Elazer was promised nothing. If anything, he was promised irrelevance, and through sheer persistence has overcome the promises of fate to ascend to a mere false king. A fluke. That word stains everything he's done - the HomeStory Cup semifinals, the WCS Winter quarterfinals, WCS Global Finals run, the WCS Valencia victory, it was all one long fluke. One fever dream where a borderline WCS Premier zerg ascended to become somehow greater than players such as Nerchio and Snute, who were always going to be destined for the Hall of Fame. The only way for Elazer to seize the crown is to surpass it. If he does as he did last year - squeeze an upset over herO, draw some crowd favorite foreigner in the Quarters, then get 3-0'd in the semis - nobody would care. Sure, they'd say now that they would care, but that has already come and gone. In order to be King, Elazer needs to ascend even further. He would need to gather his vengeance against Dark, the Slayer of Foreigners and Tyrant in Korea. It is then, in that moment, that Elazer would have the strength of the entire foreign scene behind him. All of those men Dark has 3-0'd over the past couple of years. All of those crowd favorites. The heat and energy of a dozen dead men at Elazer's fingertips. It is then, with burning hatred, that Elazer could seize his throne.

It's a wish. A daydream. But none more grandiose than last year's miracle was. Elazer originally didn't deserve to be at BlizzCon; he tied with viOLet, and many assumed the Korean would edge out in their matchup. But then Hydra cancelled, and he was moved up to eighth seed. A cancellation from Polt moved him to seven, and now in a group of death featuring his idol Nerchio, a path was forged. An informal prophecy. As we have learned since, there is nothing that could stop Elazer from fulfilling a grandiose dream. Facing off against his idol, the favorite of the foreign scene, at the biggest tournament of the year. Down 2-1 against ShoWTimE with both player's years on the line. Down 3-1 against Snute in his first ever finals. It is Elazer who plays the role of the rebel, no matter how precarious. It is Elazer who is the peasant, forever rising to become a King. It is Elazer who fulfills his dreams.

And what dream more sweet than defeating the Dark?








Writer: Olli
Editor: Zealously, munch, Olli
Photo Credit: DreamHack
Statistics: Aligulac
Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
October 16 2017 13:31 GMT
#2
Now, who will be the first korean to appear on these? (other than True ofc.)
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
October 16 2017 13:38 GMT
#3
Gumiho i think or neeb
TL+ Member
Artanis[Xp]
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Netherlands12968 Posts
October 16 2017 13:52 GMT
#4
Talk about a dark horse, even his liquipedia link sends you to Snute's page :O
Rob-Zero
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany459 Posts
October 16 2017 14:28 GMT
#5
The Liquipedia link goes to Snute
Dark Age of Camelot - I miss you
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
October 16 2017 14:34 GMT
#6
On October 16 2017 23:28 Rob-Zero wrote:
The Liquipedia link goes to Snute


I fixed it even before this was posted!
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
October 16 2017 14:38 GMT
#7
So who is next Neeb or a Korean?
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
October 16 2017 14:39 GMT
#8
"That words stains everything he's done - the HomeStory Cup semifinals, the WCS Winter quarterfinas"
Small typo - quarterfinas -> quarterfinals
Great read as usual
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 15:20:25
October 16 2017 15:18 GMT
#9
I'm guessing Gumiho is next, then either Neeb or TY.

And Elazer better start praying if he wants to beat Dark.

For the night is Dark and full of terrors.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 16:17:53
October 16 2017 16:16 GMT
#10
I don't see a reason to put Elazer as the second highest foreigner tbh, I feel like his acheiments (although great) have been carried by ZvZ. Wouldn't give him a good chance against the terrans and protoss at blizzcon, not compared Snute and Serral at least
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Avicularia
Profile Joined February 2012
540 Posts
October 16 2017 16:38 GMT
#11
Snute's ZvP is pretty bad comparing to Elazer's. However his ZvT is probably best in EU.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4939 Posts
October 16 2017 16:41 GMT
#12
Result wise Im ok with the order, maybe elazer doesnt have the veteran feel of Snute and Nerchio, but result wise he should be this high, you may argue about bracket luck and that he was hitting ZvZ a lot in tournaments, but given the amount of Zergs there are outside of korea is kinda imposible to not play 2 or 3 ZvZ in the playoffs of az tournament.
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
October 16 2017 16:47 GMT
#13
Just a minor complaint...but Neeb was not a borderline ro16 Terran in 2013; he was strongly a ro32 player. He was a ro16 Terran in 2014, with two ro16 and a ro32, and he switched to Protoss in 2015 with only one ro32 result.

The reason this is annoying is that he was a good enough Terran in 2013-2014 that he could have been a strong foreign Terran had he continued, and he had a meteoric rise in 2015-2016 after just switching to Protoss. In other words, he wasn't one of the perpetually ro16 players who could get near or just to the ro16 and then get eliminated. He was someone who was seen as having a lot of potential if he continued playing. If I recall correctly, it was big surprise that he beat Stardust in challenger.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
IArako
Profile Joined June 2015
Germany195 Posts
October 16 2017 16:50 GMT
#14
Gumiho, SoO, TY, herO will be below Neeb
Special Tactics
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
October 16 2017 16:51 GMT
#15
On October 17 2017 01:16 Fango wrote:
I don't see a reason to put Elazer as the second highest foreigner tbh, I feel like his acheiments (although great) have been carried by ZvZ. Wouldn't give him a good chance against the terrans and protoss at blizzcon, not compared Snute and Serral at least


He had some great result online against Korean lately beating Zest, Stats, Gumiho and tying vs Classic and Rogue, that probably boost him a bit.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
rafaliusz
Profile Joined December 2009
Poland482 Posts
October 16 2017 17:10 GMT
#16
This read was so epic it gave me nerd chills.
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
October 16 2017 17:58 GMT
#17
On October 17 2017 01:50 IArako wrote:
Gumiho, SoO, TY, herO will be below Neeb


TY? ok
Gumiho? sure
soO? may be

but I would definitely put herO above Neeb!
LtCalley
Profile Joined March 2011
United States244 Posts
October 16 2017 18:04 GMT
#18
i knew it was gonna be like this, but it's still funny to see nothing but foreigners at the bottom of the power rank xD
"No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you" - Homer Simpson
frazzle
Profile Joined June 2012
United States468 Posts
October 16 2017 18:20 GMT
#19
On October 16 2017 22:24 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
All of those men Dark has 3-0'd over the past couple of years.

TBF, Nerchio merely got 3-1'd in GSL vs the World. He can take damage from mortal foreigners after all.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 18:49:48
October 16 2017 18:46 GMT
#20
On October 17 2017 03:20 frazzle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2017 22:24 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
All of those men Dark has 3-0'd over the past couple of years.

TBF, Nerchio merely got 3-1'd in GSL vs the World. He can take damage from mortal foreigners after all.

It's just a flesh wound.

Foreigners can make Dark bleed, but only ichor. It takes a Korean to draw real blood.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Vanillatoss
Profile Joined May 2016
76 Posts
October 16 2017 18:58 GMT
#21
On October 17 2017 03:04 LtCalley wrote:
i knew it was gonna be like this, but it's still funny to see nothing but foreigners at the bottom of the power rank xD


Im kind of OK with it tho.. cause.. how many times TL Power rank was wrong....
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 19:12:18
October 16 2017 19:12 GMT
#22
imo serral > elazer, probably > soO/Gumiho too.

also nerchio > snute, you will see
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
Kafka777
Profile Joined December 2015
361 Posts
October 16 2017 19:30 GMT
#23
I think that the skill difference between these 16 players is marginal right now, at least much smaller than many people believe. Each player can take down any other player. Innovation perhaps stands out a bit. Its all down to form on a given day and bracket luck.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 20:56:24
October 16 2017 20:44 GMT
#24
On October 17 2017 04:30 Kafka777 wrote:
I think that the skill difference between these 16 players is marginal right now, at least much smaller than many people believe. Each player can take down any other player. Innovation perhaps stands out a bit. Its all down to form on a given day and bracket luck.


I disagree. Even within the WCS circuit the difference between Neeb and Kelazhur or Neeb and TRUE feels absolutely massive. While there are other factors that come into play such as races, some players just look hopelessly outclassed. Of the opening matches MajOr beating Stats, Kelazhur beating Dark, or TRUE beating INno are results I wouldn't bet on given 10 to 1 odds.

edit: On second thought at 10:1 I might bet on MajOr beating Stats. It's pretty close. I wouldn't take anything shorter though.
scoo2r
Profile Joined December 2015
Canada90 Posts
October 16 2017 20:54 GMT
#25
Age is a key factor, looking at overall esports earnings a player is in their prime between 19-22 years old which predicts good runs for players like Elazer and Neeb.
Another day, another depot.
Soularion
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Canada2764 Posts
October 16 2017 21:00 GMT
#26
On October 17 2017 05:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 04:30 Kafka777 wrote:
I think that the skill difference between these 16 players is marginal right now, at least much smaller than many people believe. Each player can take down any other player. Innovation perhaps stands out a bit. Its all down to form on a given day and bracket luck.


I disagree. Even within the WCS circuit the difference between Neeb and Kelazhur or Neeb and TRUE feels absolutely massive. While there are other factors that come into play such as races, some players just look hopelessly outclassed. Of the opening matches MajOr beating Stats, Kelazhur beating Dark, or TRUE beating INno are results I wouldn't bet on given 10 to 1 odds.

edit: On second thought at 10:1 I might bet on MajOr beating Stats. It's pretty close. I wouldn't take anything shorter though.

I'd bet on MajOr > Stats at 5:1 comfortably. He took him to five games at GSL vs the World, and it's only a Bo3. Upsets will come a lot easier than you might expect, ie. ShoWTimE > ByuN or Solar collapsing
Writermaru pls
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 21:05:48
October 16 2017 21:01 GMT
#27
On October 17 2017 05:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 04:30 Kafka777 wrote:
I think that the skill difference between these 16 players is marginal right now, at least much smaller than many people believe. Each player can take down any other player. Innovation perhaps stands out a bit. Its all down to form on a given day and bracket luck.


I disagree. Even within the WCS circuit the difference between Neeb and Kelazhur or Neeb and TRUE feels absolutely massive. While there are other factors that come into play such as races, some players just look hopelessly outclassed. Of the opening matches MajOr beating Stats, Kelazhur beating Dark, or TRUE beating INno are results I wouldn't bet on given 10 to 1 odds.

edit: On second thought at 10:1 I might bet on MajOr beating Stats. It's pretty close. I wouldn't take anything shorter though.

Dark vs Kelazhur and True vs Inno are by far the most onesided opening matches. The (arguably) two weakest players at Blizzcon against the (arguably) two strongest. Barring a complete meltdown from the Koreans, they will take it effortlessly.

MajOr at least has some semblance of a chance against Stats, albeit not a great one.

The Blizzcon groups as a whole aren't very good for the foreigners. I would guess one (Serral or Neeb) makes it to the Ro8, two at most, and wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be zero.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 16 2017 21:08 GMT
#28
On October 17 2017 06:00 Soularion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 05:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On October 17 2017 04:30 Kafka777 wrote:
I think that the skill difference between these 16 players is marginal right now, at least much smaller than many people believe. Each player can take down any other player. Innovation perhaps stands out a bit. Its all down to form on a given day and bracket luck.


I disagree. Even within the WCS circuit the difference between Neeb and Kelazhur or Neeb and TRUE feels absolutely massive. While there are other factors that come into play such as races, some players just look hopelessly outclassed. Of the opening matches MajOr beating Stats, Kelazhur beating Dark, or TRUE beating INno are results I wouldn't bet on given 10 to 1 odds.

edit: On second thought at 10:1 I might bet on MajOr beating Stats. It's pretty close. I wouldn't take anything shorter though.

I'd bet on MajOr > Stats at 5:1 comfortably. He took him to five games at GSL vs the World, and it's only a Bo3. Upsets will come a lot easier than you might expect, ie. ShoWTimE > ByuN or Solar collapsing


Fair enough. Both MajOr and Stats have been looking worse since then which also which adds some uncertainty. Ignoring specific numbers though I still wouldn't call skill differences between the top 16 players marginal.
Sakat
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
Croatia1599 Posts
October 16 2017 21:18 GMT
#29
On October 17 2017 05:54 scoo2r wrote:
Age is a key factor, looking at overall esports earnings a player is in their prime between 19-22 years old which predicts good runs for players like Elazer and Neeb.

I always wonder why people never bring that up
My boy Ptak defeated two GSL champions!
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 16 2017 21:29 GMT
#30
On October 17 2017 06:18 Sakat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 05:54 scoo2r wrote:
Age is a key factor, looking at overall esports earnings a player is in their prime between 19-22 years old which predicts good runs for players like Elazer and Neeb.

I always wonder why people never bring that up


Most players peak in skill when around that age, and it's because they are most skilled that they earn more. So people don't discuss the age of the players as much since their age is subsumed by discussing their skill.
Sakat
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
Croatia1599 Posts
October 16 2017 21:38 GMT
#31
On October 17 2017 06:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 06:18 Sakat wrote:
On October 17 2017 05:54 scoo2r wrote:
Age is a key factor, looking at overall esports earnings a player is in their prime between 19-22 years old which predicts good runs for players like Elazer and Neeb.

I always wonder why people never bring that up


Most players peak in skill when around that age, and it's because they are most skilled that they earn more. So people don't discuss the age of the players as much since their age is subsumed by discussing their skill.

I guess so.

In most sports age is discussed regularly so I thought it was weird
My boy Ptak defeated two GSL champions!
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 16 2017 21:47 GMT
#32
On October 17 2017 06:38 Sakat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 06:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On October 17 2017 06:18 Sakat wrote:
On October 17 2017 05:54 scoo2r wrote:
Age is a key factor, looking at overall esports earnings a player is in their prime between 19-22 years old which predicts good runs for players like Elazer and Neeb.

I always wonder why people never bring that up


Most players peak in skill when around that age, and it's because they are most skilled that they earn more. So people don't discuss the age of the players as much since their age is subsumed by discussing their skill.

I guess so.

In most sports age is discussed regularly so I thought it was weird


I wouldn't be surprised if it got to that point eventually assuming that a single eSport exists for long enough in a stable form for several generations of players exist.
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8304 Posts
October 16 2017 22:01 GMT
#33
On October 17 2017 01:16 Fango wrote:
I don't see a reason to put Elazer as the second highest foreigner tbh, I feel like his acheiments (although great) have been carried by ZvZ. Wouldn't give him a good chance against the terrans and protoss at blizzcon, not compared Snute and Serral at least


I felt the same way until I read the article. I think the article makes a good argument for why Elazer is second best foreigner.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 16 2017 22:38 GMT
#34
On October 17 2017 01:50 IArako wrote:
Gumiho, SoO, TY, herO will be below Neeb

herO just made it to the finals of an offline Korean tournament and lost 4-3 to the best ZvP player in the world. In terms of current form, that's more impressive than winning a WCS Circuit event.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 23:41:31
October 16 2017 23:38 GMT
#35
On October 17 2017 07:01 TheDougler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 01:16 Fango wrote:
I don't see a reason to put Elazer as the second highest foreigner tbh, I feel like his acheiments (although great) have been carried by ZvZ. Wouldn't give him a good chance against the terrans and protoss at blizzcon, not compared Snute and Serral at least


I felt the same way until I read the article. I think the article makes a good argument for why Elazer is second best foreigner.


The article is good at building hype and stories sure. But it terms of the actual games he's been showing, I can't put him higher than Snute or Serral (except maybe in ZvZs against eachother, but even then it's close)
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 17 2017 00:43 GMT
#36
Blizzard released his WCS Signature Series video today:



Good to see they're doing the Signature Series again this year, I really liked the ones last year.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
October 17 2017 03:05 GMT
#37
Cool signature. I don't know why but Elazer he is like Desireless (Claudie Fritsch-Mentrop).
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
October 17 2017 03:12 GMT
#38
On October 17 2017 12:05 engesser1 wrote:
Cool signature. I don't know why but Elazer he is like Desireless (Claudie Fritsch-Mentrop).


Hahahahahahaha
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
October 17 2017 04:14 GMT
#39
On October 17 2017 08:38 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 07:01 TheDougler wrote:
On October 17 2017 01:16 Fango wrote:
I don't see a reason to put Elazer as the second highest foreigner tbh, I feel like his acheiments (although great) have been carried by ZvZ. Wouldn't give him a good chance against the terrans and protoss at blizzcon, not compared Snute and Serral at least


I felt the same way until I read the article. I think the article makes a good argument for why Elazer is second best foreigner.


The article is good at building hype and stories sure. But it terms of the actual games he's been showing, I can't put him higher than Snute or Serral (except maybe in ZvZs against eachother, but even then it's close)


I would say Elazer has some of the best ZvP in the foreign scene and probably better than Snute's or Serral's (Serral is more of a tossup but he did say he's been struggling in the matchup during his time in Korea). Stats kept getting destroyed by Elazer on his stream (and then lost a series to him in a tournament the next day), and in general Elazer has always expressed confidence in that matchup. Ofc, these are just ladder games and online tournaments but I don't think it's a big stretch to say Elazer has the best ZvP outside of Korea, and his ZvZ is very much up there too.

Elazer's ZvT has always been super shaky and his recent wins (and loss) against Gumiho were fun to watch but ultimately not too convincing. Both Snute and Serral probably have his number in that regard. Personally I would probably put Serral ahead of Elazer, but I think Elazer's rank over Snute is fair.
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-17 07:12:00
October 17 2017 07:08 GMT
#40
On October 17 2017 12:05 engesser1 wrote:
Cool signature. I don't know why but Elazer he is like Desireless (Claudie Fritsch-Mentrop).

lmfao, I can't unsee :D



And yes, that signature video was great.

Elazer has a really cool dad!
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
October 17 2017 07:10 GMT
#41
On October 17 2017 13:14 blooblooblahblah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 08:38 Fango wrote:
On October 17 2017 07:01 TheDougler wrote:
On October 17 2017 01:16 Fango wrote:
I don't see a reason to put Elazer as the second highest foreigner tbh, I feel like his acheiments (although great) have been carried by ZvZ. Wouldn't give him a good chance against the terrans and protoss at blizzcon, not compared Snute and Serral at least


I felt the same way until I read the article. I think the article makes a good argument for why Elazer is second best foreigner.


The article is good at building hype and stories sure. But it terms of the actual games he's been showing, I can't put him higher than Snute or Serral (except maybe in ZvZs against eachother, but even then it's close)


I would say Elazer has some of the best ZvP in the foreign scene and probably better than Snute's or Serral's

Rather mild statement, considering that Snute can't ZvP fot his life.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
October 17 2017 07:34 GMT
#42
On October 17 2017 16:10 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2017 13:14 blooblooblahblah wrote:
On October 17 2017 08:38 Fango wrote:
On October 17 2017 07:01 TheDougler wrote:
On October 17 2017 01:16 Fango wrote:
I don't see a reason to put Elazer as the second highest foreigner tbh, I feel like his acheiments (although great) have been carried by ZvZ. Wouldn't give him a good chance against the terrans and protoss at blizzcon, not compared Snute and Serral at least


I felt the same way until I read the article. I think the article makes a good argument for why Elazer is second best foreigner.


The article is good at building hype and stories sure. But it terms of the actual games he's been showing, I can't put him higher than Snute or Serral (except maybe in ZvZs against eachother, but even then it's close)


I would say Elazer has some of the best ZvP in the foreign scene and probably better than Snute's or Serral's

Rather mild statement, considering that Snute can't ZvP fot his life.


lol very mild statement but maybe it magically got better while in Korea so i thought id give him some chance
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10077 Posts
October 26 2017 01:50 GMT
#43
really nice read! thanks Olli
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
MyLovelyLurker
Profile Joined April 2007
France756 Posts
October 30 2017 07:49 GMT
#44
Prophetic closing line. Go Mikolaj !
"I just say, it doesn't matter win or lose, I just love Starcraft 2, I love this game, I love this stage, just play like in practice" - TIME/Oliveira
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 47m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 312
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4856
PianO 545
Leta 525
Zeus 427
zelot 86
Sexy 63
Noble 44
Bale 32
Aegong 30
Sacsri 26
[ Show more ]
JulyZerg 24
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever758
League of Legends
JimRising 853
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 256
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox656
Other Games
summit1g15733
shahzam1261
WinterStarcraft249
Maynarde180
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1359
BasetradeTV7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta77
• practicex 6
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift6667
• Rush1457
• Stunt567
Other Games
• Scarra1021
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5h 47m
WardiTV European League
11h 47m
PiGosaur Monday
19h 47m
OSC
1d 8h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 11h
The PondCast
2 days
Online Event
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Online Event
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.