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United States8476 Posts
On September 27 2017 20:45 Failfail wrote:
Thank you for the guide. However, as a player in co-op, I believe that commanders who can protect the base should defend the base first as some maps like Rifts to Korhal, Scythe Of Amon, enemy attack wave arrives the base before 4 mins. The build you recommend is very, very greedy, just as the Raynor Guide. Some maps which require a lot of early objective controls like Malwarfare or Scythe of Amon cannot do these greedy starts. When you do this greedy builds, you actually rely so much on your ally. But what if your ally also use greedy starts? There will be no defense for the bases until 4 mins. So I suggest that for the following guides, try not to be so economic efficient, as each game your ally commander is different, and some commanders cannot actually support you until his economy is fully saturated.
Kerrigan and Raynor both are good commanders in the early-mid game, sometimes you should help your ally to survive the early game,like help them to break the rocks at the expansion, not just be greedy at every start of the game.
First of all, we should have been more clear that the build is only for maps with natural expansion rocks. Thus, we don't recommend this build on maps like Malwarfare or Scythe of Amon. In addition, there is a specific note for Rifts to Korhal in the map-specific section.
On all other maps (L&L, VT, VL, MO, OE) we recommend this build. It is not greedy at all, because you can defend any wave with this build and still execute it. The replays provided in the replay pack demonstrate this proof of concept.
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I am a bit surprise u want to build the hatch next to the rock. I assume you will have three hatch in total.
For me, the key in early game is to get Hive tech asap so i can get upgrades for Kerrigan (Ability Efficiency and Chain Reaction). My composition is ultras/hydras so i don't need so much larvae for the third hatch.
My BO is something like this.
17 pool
17 double gas
when pool done, get queen.
When Queen is done, get Lair and Evo
When lair is done, get chain reaction.
Then upgrade Hive
....
When Kerrigan comes out, take out the first wave and then take out the rocks, get natural.
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13 or 14 ovie (with or without single/double extractor trick)?
It's better to 13 ovie in 1v1, but since 14 ovie gives you 14 drones on minerals in co-op immediately, I imagine it would be the more optimal BO.
Has anyone done any testing?
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Is staying for so long on one base that efficient wtf ? I just always went pool before overlord grabbed an expo and it felt natural.
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On September 26 2017 17:25 Zzzapper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 11:54 seemsgood wrote:
Both Zagara and Kerrian are very weak without extra base.Which means in some mutiation missons they are not viable at all.Beside Air terran her army also very weak against HTs and she cannot remax as fast as Jimmy.
Despite lacking mobility brood lords and queens combo is probadly the safest option. I strongly disagree: both have strong heroes (Kerrigan more so obviously) that don't care how much economy you have. Zagara also gets 600 resources/minute worth of free banelings as soon as you finish the baneling nest which you should do early on anyway.
You should play mutation map which has hail storm.I get POP'ed everytime.
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United States8476 Posts
On September 28 2017 11:58 EngrishTeacher wrote:
13 or 14 ovie (with or without single/double extractor trick)?
It's better to 13 ovie in 1v1, but since 14 ovie gives you 14 drones on minerals in co-op immediately, I imagine it would be the more optimal BO.
Has anyone done any testing?
14 >13 Overlord with the build suggested since you won't be making an extra Drone for a while. In our tests, single Extractor trick came out slightly ahead of no Extractor trick, but we're not confident enough to recommend it since it complicates the build for newer players.
On September 28 2017 12:36 MyiPtitDrogo wrote:
Is staying for so long on one base that efficient wtf ? I just always went pool before overlord grabbed an expo and it felt natural.
Yea, it turns out distance mining from your natural isn't so bad.
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Cool guide, excited to try these things out. Thanks!
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On September 29 2017 13:17 monk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2017 11:58 EngrishTeacher wrote:
13 or 14 ovie (with or without single/double extractor trick)?
It's better to 13 ovie in 1v1, but since 14 ovie gives you 14 drones on minerals in co-op immediately, I imagine it would be the more optimal BO.
Has anyone done any testing? 14 >13 Overlord with the build suggested since you won't be making an extra Drone for a while. In our tests, single Extractor trick came out slightly ahead of no Extractor trick, but we're not confident enough to recommend it since it complicates the build for newer players. Show nested quote +On September 28 2017 12:36 MyiPtitDrogo wrote:
Is staying for so long on one base that efficient wtf ? I just always went pool before overlord grabbed an expo and it felt natural. Yea, it turns out distance mining from your natural isn't so bad.
Thanks for the knowledge from your extensive in-game testing! 14 ovie with single extractor trick from now on then.
Much gratitude to you, cheers.
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This is a great guide. Kerrigan is my favorite to play but I felt she wasn't quite as powerful as some others. now I see the issue was partly me not knowing how to use her fully.
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Nice guide, thank you guys for your amazing work 
Something that I've lately discovered about nydus network and I think in not mentioned in your guide :
I was playing Abathur with a Kerrigan ally and when I spawned a nydus network, I was surprised that it was actually an omega one ! So Abathur seems to benefit from Kerrigan nydus tech.
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Actually, what's the difference between Omega and normal nydus? Can't remember normal one anymore.
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On November 11 2017 03:42 DSh1 wrote:
Actually, what's the difference between Omega and normal nydus? Can't remember normal one anymore.
The normal nydus worm takes some time to pop up and only 1 unit at a time can slowly come out whereas the omega worm pops up instantly and unload units much quicker. I think the omega worm has more HP too.
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Little late to the party here, but I disagree entirely with the bit about Karax & Kerrigan having few synergies; he's always one of my favorites to play with when I play her.
Apart from the mouthwatering 15% passive (larva production from hatcheries and the egg morph rate both get it, so it's better than for non-Zerg commanders), if the Karax is willing to micro a bit, he can perfectly complement Kerrigan's face-wrecking early game. Specifically, a single Energizer turns Kerrigan into even more of a machine gun than she already is, and orbital strikes can snipe off Void Rays, Carriers, Brood Lords, Battlecruisers, and any other assorted clods in the clouds, all without having to risk any units or sacrifice his early game. A particularly good one can obviate Kerrigan's need for Hydralisks entirely. Plus, Kerrigan's assimilation aura can help out a lot with Karax's high early-game Vespene demands. One Protoss mob is usually enough to pay for most of the first Lance of Adun energy upgrade.
N.B. he has to control the energizer manually. With Kerrigan's short range, queuing/flagging her will get it killed very quickly.
On the defensive side, Kerrigan gets an infinite, low-recharge supply of gigantic body-blocking monsters that you can place directly in front of Karax's photon pile. Omega Worms take an absolute eternity to kill if there's a stack of Cannons and Monoliths on the other side. They inhibit the range of the cannons, so you'll only want one layer, but Monoliths easily make up for it, and on certain maps, it's not even a concern (e.g. the Temple map has wings around the chokepoints, so you can put cannons up there, unimpeded by the Great Wall of Nydus). Plus, if you're fighting Zerg or Nemesis hybrid, Spore Crawlers can slot between cannons to shred air units with energizer support, way faster than any of his buildings can.
Oh, and Kerrigan can pop out of the worms to help with whatever's howling at the gates.
It's an unconventional pairing, and it relies a lot on Kerrigan being aggressive and Karax bothering to support her, but it's quite effective. Hardly a bad matchup.
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Completely disagree with her "lack of anti-air".
The only time Air Terran gets tough is near the end of the game. Then, you have Malignant Creep + Immobilization Wave + Hydras with Frenzy.
EVERYTHING melts.. doesn't even matter what AI comp it is.
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The problem/weakness is you are relying solely on immobilization wave a lot of times.
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On February 07 2018 01:24 DSh1 wrote:
The problem/weakness is you are relying solely on immobilization wave a lot of times.
Except it isn’t a problem. With Expeditious Evolutions and her cooldown upgrade you have immobilization for every enemy wave or any time that it matters.
And why wouldn’t you rely on it? It has a fast cooldown and it’s her best ability. That’s what it’s there for.
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The cooldown is decent, that's why Kerrigan despite this weakness is a good commander.
Relying on it is a weakness because of the cooldown.
Because if you for example misclick once, you are screwed.
If you have to fight on two different sites, you are also screwed.
Mutations can also screw you over.
If Kerrigan is dead you are ultra screwed.
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On February 07 2018 20:22 DSh1 wrote:
The cooldown is decent, that's why Kerrigan despite this weakness is a good commander.
Relying on it is a weakness because of the cooldown.
Because if you for example misclick once, you are screwed.
If you have to fight on two different sites, you are also screwed.
Mutations can also screw you over.
If Kerrigan is dead you are ultra screwed.
No, no and no.
If you misclick, so what. An army with Ultras/Hydras can stomp basically anything. If it's a Mutation and you misclick, yeah sure that would suck. But the same could be said with many commanders.
Fight at two different sites you're screwed? Huh? She has Nydus. Trying to think of a time when you have to fight at two sites anyway.. can't think of anything really except Mist Opportunities near the end.. but those are small waves attacking the bots.. just use Nydus.
Yeah some Mutations might not be the best for her, same as any commander though.
If Kerrigan dies, she's revived in a SHORT time. That's what your army and ally is for.
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I think we basically agree, but have different definitions of anti-air. You are saying that there is a way to play the game so that you can deal with air which is true. I am arguing that anti-air is not reliable because it requires a larger amount of "no mistakes" (robustness) than other anti-air mechanics (aka units).
I personally I don't count a 2-3min cooldown ability as a very reliable anti-air.
For me: Making sure it is available is playing around that weakness, not deleting that weakness entirely. But then that's a matter of perspective. If you play a perfect game you can always win with any commander, so going by that logic you could also argue that no commander has any weaknesses.
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Now with the new kerrigan changes, it seems better to put mastery points in unit gas cost reduction instead of augmented immobilization wave. Stun them, then finish them off with your mutas, which should be nearby.
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EPT
