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Hi, first off, what’s your name?
Hello, my name is Dahye Kang and I go by the nickname Leimmia on Twitch.
How long have you been following Korean starcraft?
I first started watching StarCraft 2 in 2012, but took a break during 2013 and much of 2014. I came back in the middle of Heart of the Swarm. So it’s fair to say I really started following Starcraft around mid-2014.
Who are your favorite players?
My favorite players are the ex-T1 players, especially soO, INnoVation and Classic.
You're a fan of soO, but you missed his first few runs to the finals. You started watching when soO was already really good, how did that impact your opinion of him?
I’ve known about soO since he debuted in Brood War, but back then I didn’t think he was anything special. I thought he had potential but I didn't think he, or many of the Brood War players for that matter, would transition to SC2.
When I got into SC2 I found more familiar faces from BW than I expected, soO being one of them. I actually got back into SC2 after the finals he played against INnoVation, so my perception of him wasn’t affected by his level of play around that time. I was just pleasantly surprised and thankful that someone I recognized was still playing. I can’t pinpoint exactly why I came to be a fan of soO in particular, I think a lot of factors built up to make me cheer for him. I think what touched me the most was the fact that an up-and-coming player from BW had managed to reach such heights in a completely different game through hard work. soO made me see that anyone could succeed if they tried hard enough and I really respect him for that.
You’ve spent a lot of time in soO’s Twitch channel and even mod for him. Overall, the foreign audience tends to be very supportive of the players. They troll and argue with each other instead of bashing the streamer. What is the dynamic like among Korean viewers?
I think the Korean viewers are pretty much the same. Most of us are here to see the pros stream, so we mostly talk about what’s going on in the the current game or something related like balance. We also discuss topics from the community or even things completely unrelated to SC2. When another pro appears in the chat we sometimes talk to them. I’d say in general, the Korean chat has a very relaxed atmosphere.
Just like the foreign viewers, people sometimes bring up subjects that are taboo among SC2 fans, such as matchfixing. It could just be someone trying to troll, but the other viewers oftentimes get swept up in it. It’s the mod’s job to take care of things from there.
How would you describe the general view on streamers among Koreans? Just like foreign fans, this is the first time Korean fans get to see their favorite KeSPA players from their perspective.
Now that most players are teamless, I think the primary purpose of streaming is to help motivate them and give them a sense of purpose.
Since there’s no team, no one is telling them what to practice. They have to take care of everything themselves, whether it be practice or personal upkeep. Nowadays, the progamers are more like freelancers because they need to make a living from tournament earnings. Everything is determined by their own efforts. If they can’t produce results it’s hard for the players to remain active.
Overall, I think streaming is valuable in that it gives the players motivation to practice even if they don’t feel like it. I suppose each player would have differing views on this, but this is my personal opinion.
You talked about streaming, income and motivating players. Many fans tend to forget that the price players paid for streaming was the loss of their salaries and team house. Do you think Korean fans are more or less mindful of that?
We can’t help but be mindful of why the streams began in the first place even if they are enjoyable. The biggest reason players didn’t stream when they were on KeSPA teams was to avoid revealing builds or practice strategies. After all, for the teams, Proleague results were the highest priority. The Korean fans do enjoy the streams though. We can keep up-to-date with how the players are doing and get a closer look at their gameplay. But considering how we reached this point, there’s a bitter undertone. We think that if the teams were still here, there wouldn’t be a reason for the pros to stream. So I think it’s a bittersweet experience for the Korean fans.
About the financial aspects, I personally don’t think streaming would make a significant impact on the players’ income. The bottom line is they’re StarCraft 2 pros. They haven’t studied or done any research into streaming, so it makes sense they’d be lacking as entertainers. It’s good for the pros to practice and use the stream to interact with the fans, but I personally don’t think it’s ideal for them to focus too much on streaming, or stream professionally. If they plan on being StarCraft 2 progamers, I think it’s best for the players and the fans to focus more on tournament results.
Now let’s move on to real life Starcraft. Like I said earlier, the Korean scene has changed a lot since the dissolution of Proleague. What was it about Proleague that fans loved so much, compared to individual leagues?
Proleague isn’t about one person. It’s about the teams. I think this sense of camaraderie and belonging passed onto the fans as well. It felt very meaningful when our team performed well, because you know it’s not about one person doing well, but everyone working together.
In individual leagues, only the players who were performing well would advance, so they were the only ones you’d see. But every member of the team would be there during Proleague, even if they weren’t playing that day. Also, you could see the players interacting with each other, trading jokes and acting like a family. The fans could be a part of this too. We bonded by supporting them. Individual leagues might have their own charm, but this is why Proleague was well-loved by Korean fans for so long. It was a chance for every StarCraft 2 fan to cheer for all of the players together. Personally speaking, I have more memories related to Proleague than individual leagues.
One of the reasons people attribute the loss of Proleague to is matchfixing. Stork was even translated as having said matchfixing played a critical role in sponsors pulling out of Proleague in an interview. Is this a common view among the Korean fan community?
If the scandal hadn’t happened we might have gotten another sponsor, or the current sponsor might have considered continuing the sponsorship for another season. Matchfixing is a huge blow to the sponsor’s image though. I think all the fans would agree it had a critical role to play in what happened.
Life is without a doubt the most noteworthy matchfixer in Starcraft 2 history. Among foreign fans there are a lot of people who defend him. Is this a position ever taken by Korean fans?
Not anyone I’ve encountered. The Korean fans experienced a large matchfixing scandal back in Brood War, and we’ve been determined to learn and grow from that mistake, and make sure that nothing like this happens again. We were terribly shocked that it happened all over again. A small difference between Life’s case and the matchfixing cases in BW was that they were once great players who weren’t performing as well as they used to. But Life had been recently gotten second place at BlizzCon. He wasn’t lacking in results or form, and the fact that he would resort to such a thing despite doing well was very shocking. He had a promising career ahead of him and was popular with the fans.
So that’s why Korean fans are very decisive when speaking about matchfixers, and not just Life, but everyone else involved. We have a zero-tolerance policy regarding matchfixing. Maybe there are people who try to defend him, but I don’t know anyone who would. If someone were to try and maintain that position other fans would be heavily critical of them.
There are those who say he was young when he made his choices and others would argue that he only cheated at a video game, and does not deserve to be banned for life. What would you say to those people?
First off, I don’t think being young can excuse a crime. As a StarCraft 2 player who knew how matchfixing had damaged Brood War, he should never have tried to cheat for personal gain. I think it’s only fair that there should be consequences for his actions.
Many in the Korean StarCraft 2 scene called 2015 a renaissance. Proleague as well as both individual leagues were flourishing. But Life’s actions, as well as the actions of the other people who were involved in matchfixing, actually made the prospects of the scene bleaker. Considering this, I think there is no reason to defend anyone who was involved. A lifetime ban should be an obvious measure. I understand there might be differences of viewpoints in Korea as opposed to abroad, but as far as the Korean fans who really love StarCraft 2 are concerned, we don’t think that his punishment was undeserved.
This viewpoint seems similar to the hardcore foreign fans of the Korean scene. It’s usually the more casual fans, like who only tune in for BlizzCon or the bigger events, who defend Life. What is the situation like among casual Korean fans?
Matchfixing is considered a crime in Korea, so it’s rare to see anyone defend matchfixing in any way.
The matchfixing scandal during BW had been so highly publicized that even Koreans who didn’t follow esports knew about it. This was much in the same vein. Most people would say something like, ‘it’s very shocking that something like this would happen again,’ or ‘I heard this player was very good, why would he do something like this?’ if they heard about another matchfixing incident. Even among those who only watch StarCraft 2 casually, I don’t think there are many people who would view matchfixing as defensible.
Early on in 2017 it looked like GSL was going to be the only Korean tournament of the year. Now there are three running at the same time. How would you compare 2017 to 2015 when SSL, GSL and Proleague were all running simultaneously?
Compared to back then, it feels a little like walking on thin ice, maybe? To be honest, I didn’t expect to be so busy watching tournaments in 2017. I’m incredibly grateful that so many tournaments are being organized, both online and offline. It’s a testament to how many people love StarCraft 2 and how dedicated the organizers are. That said, it does feel less stable compared to the Proleague system where the sponsors were large companies.
But the players have a chance to participate in all the events and the established fans are following them consistently. On top of that, the Afreeca Onpoong Studio [GSLTV] has been holding amateur tournaments. The SC2 scene can’t survive without an influx of new players and, while I’m not sure if this will have a significant effect, this will promote participation among amateurs. If all goes well, it could produce at least one more aspiring SC2 pro. I hope that with GSL at its center, these smaller tournaments could grow more popular in 2018 and that SC2 can reach a wider audience in Korea.
SSL was a last-minute addition, but a very welcome one. Now that Season 1 is over, do you think the fans are happy with how it went? Are they are less or more excited for Season 2 than they were for Season 1? Was there disappointment that Blizzard didn’t support the event the same way they do GSL?
I don’t think anyone was disappointed by the lack of support from Blizzard. We initially thought there wouldn’t even be an SSL because it was excluded from the WCS announcement. We’re all very thankful that it’s back. There was some criticism about the round robin format, though, and how the players who qualified for Season 1 Premier were getting too many privileges. For Season 2, the qualifiers only offer six of the ten Challenge spots. And even if you make it to Challenge, no one knows whether or not SSL will be back next year, so there's no guarantee there will even be a Premier division to participate in next season.
Some people think SSL isn’t as favorable for the Challenge players, especially the ones advancing through the qualifiers in Season 2. Challenge takes place at 10PM on Saturdays and the studio isn’t even open to audiences, so some people wonder if there’s any reason to hold the Challenge offline at all. I thought about that as well, because there are players who live far away. Considering the transportation fees or lodging expenses and the fact that the players have to travel back and forth every week, naturally some Korean fans think it would have been easier for the players if it was held online.
There’s a thrilling tension that’s unique to the round-robin format, though. You can’t be sure who’s going to advance until the very last moment. At the same time, in the earlier stages of the tournament the Premier players weren’t as enthusiastic as they were in the later stages. In the first couple sessions you feel like it doesn’t really matter whether who wins or loses. But as the tournament advanced, it seemed like the players started preparing harder. Personally I thought the round-robin format wasn’t all that bad.
You can attend VSL, SSL, and GSL live. You’ve been going to these events for a while, is it the same people all the time, or are there newer faces you’ve noticed since there are more events?
There are a lot of familiar faces. I see the regulars at pretty much every tournament.
And what about new faces? Have you noticed any new regulars?
Well, there are quite a lot of people in the audience so there will probably be new faces, but I didn’t really observe them closely. In the case of GSL there are many visitors, so most of the crowd are unfamiliar. SSL has a relatively small audience, and the VSL even more so since it requires a sign-up prior to visiting. Plus, the VSL studio isn’t in a convenient location even for viewers who live in Seoul. So the viewers who do attend VSL are mostly the familiar faces that I see all the time.
A lot of foreign fans, myself included, dream about coming to Korea and watching GSL live. That’s something you have been able to do for years. Do you feel fortunate in that regard, to have so much StarCraft so close by?
It's true that SC2 isn't at the height of popularity at the moment, but many fans still follow it. The Korean players are the best in the world, and I think it's very fortunate that I can attend their games in person and share the experience with other fans.
That said, attending BlizzCon is a completely different story. I really want to go to BlizzCon!
You know, very few people actually manage to get the BlizzCon ticket. They get bought up instantly.
I tried to book a ticket once but wasn’t able to. The demand is so high since people come for all kinds of Blizzard games.
Being a fan in Korea is a very different dynamic than being a foreign one. The intimacy and size of the scene as well as the frequency of events allows you to connect with or at least get exposure to players in ways a foreign fan might not be able to. What is that like being a part of the Korean scene where you can see players all the time?
I do live in Korea, but not in Seoul, so I can’t attend events as frequently as I’d like because work gets in the way. Watching events live is a unique experience with a different feel and tension. As Korean fans we’re given the opportunity to visit the players directly and ask them about in-game questions, or get their autographs. It’s true that all the tournaments are centered in Seoul, but it’s not like other countries where the cities are so far apart that you can’t attend a tournament unless you really make up your mind to go. So in that respect, it’s great to be an SC2 fan here because it’s possible to attend events with minimal planning.
When talking about interacting with players, the practice of giving gifts seems to be a big thing in Korean culture. Whether it’s a fan giving soO a Twice CD, or a Twice member getting a box of meat, it seems like fans give their favorites a lot of gifts. How do you think that dynamic influences the fan-to-player interaction and how fans view the players as a person or professionals?
There’s not much influence, I would say. Giving gifts is just a way for the fans to support the players. It doesn’t really make them more accessible as a person.
It’s an established culture in Korea to convey messages in the form of gifts. Gift giving isn’t exclusive to Korea, but I understand it’s not as widespread in other countries. Some League of Legends fans I’ve spoken to seemed surprised by the gift-giving culture. The gifts are meant to be a message of encouragement and support, and they’re not taken as a personal interaction. The fans try to support the players and the players in turn express gratitude to receive such support.
That said, I think the feelings of support are the same for foreign or Korean fans. We just send the message in different ways. I think the fact that it takes a lot of time and money to even attend an event in foreign countries would also play a part. It’s a huge investment to just go and watch the players in person.
You participated in the some Afreeca promo material that aired during the Season 1 Final. This must be above and beyond a normal fan experience. How did it feel to be able to support one of your favorite players in that way?
The Season 1 interview was filmed right after the semifinals ended. The sub-writer was filming a video to use for the finals. I tried to refuse but I couldn’t get out of it. I guess it was coincidence. It might not have been broadcast television, but it was a very new experience to have my message heard by so many people. I’m still really embarrassed by it, so I couldn’t rewatch the video just yet. Still, I was able to send a word of support for the player I was cheering for in the grand finals. I feel like I was able to convey everything I wanted to say to soO, so I think the interview will always mean a lot to me.
This sort of personal connection—such as asking questions directly to players—and even a little relatability with Korean players is something foreign fans were missing for a long time. In fact, it was the reason many people used to rationalize their disinterest in the Korean scene. The term that was used was “faceless Koreans”. A player like Maru was very exciting, but his blandness in interviews turned a lot of viewers off. How aware were Korean fans of this practice and the term?
Yes, I was aware of it to a certain extent, but I didn’t expect it to go as far as ‘faceless.’ That said, I think it’s only natural, since the ways of getting exposure to the players are limited and one-sided. All we have access to is the gameplay, the broadcast interviews, and occasionally a talk show such as the talk show ‘공허의 유채꽃,” + Show Spoiler +. So I think it’s a fair criticism, since it wasn’t possible to see the other sides of the players. You used Maru as an example, but he’s much better at interviews now than he used to be. The players might be shy in interviews, but it can be challenging for them.
I hope people understand that the players don’t show every part of themselves in interviews. They’re all very different from each other and can be very funny. I think helping people get to know these sides of the players is one way in which streaming can be meaningful. For example, before INnoVation started streaming I expected him to be very quiet, terse and boring, but I was pleasantly surprised to see that he was actually quite funny. So I think the perception can change going forward. I hope that streaming can make a positive impact in that respect.
As for foreign players, Scarlett played in Season 1 of GSL and Scarlett and MajOr played in Season 2. Neeb is coming to Korea for Season 3. Are these players viewed seriously? And are any of them popular among Korean fans?
[Note: This question was asked prior to the Season 3 qualifier. Sorry Neeb. TT]
I think we can see foreign players reach the Round of 16 assuming they practice on the Korean server and get a favorable group. For instance, I understand that Scarlett and Neeb are both very strong in their respective mirror matchups, so if they get a lot of mirror matchups they could both advance. MajOr looks very strong in tournaments and in streams. He’s regarded as having a ‘funny’ image because of his obsession with TY, but I hear he’s helped a lot of pros practice and that he’s very good. If he gets a group with a lot of Zerg players it’s realistic to see him move on. There might be an element of luck involved, but I think all the foreign players have a good chance to advance if they practice hard.
As for foreign players who are popular in Korea… well, there are no players who have reached meme status yet. Well, I think Nerchio is famous here, or rather infamous, because of his comments on Twitter.
You’ve watched these players play for a long time, so I’m gonna throw some love to Lichter, who went on a lengthy tirade after not being credited last time, and ask the famous TL pirates question... Your family/loved ones have been kidnapped by pirates. You can recruit three progamers to take with you on a rescue mission. Who do you select, and why?
[laughs] Disregarding personal preferences? Well, based on talent alone I would pick INnovation, Classic and because of race balance, soO.
Hm, what’s the reason I need to take three pros? Assuming that the progamers are facing off in a SC2 battle against the pirates, INnoVation is a top player, you can’t discuss Terran without him. Classic is also one of the best players in his race. As for soO, I guess his race might be a liability, but in my experience it’s not a good idea to skew the race distribution like No Toss did in VSL. On top of that, the three of them are close, so I think they’ll work well together to resolve the situation.
Well it was great to talk to you, Leim. If there’s anything you would like to say to cheer on your favorite players, or to foreign fans, feel free to do so!
To the players I’m cheering for, I know you’ve always been working hard, and that you’re working hard now as well. I’m confident that if you keep at it, you will achieve the results you hope for. I’ll be cheering for you along with all the other fans.
To the foreign fans, the StarCraft 2 players are working very hard, thank you for your support and interest in the Korean scene, and I hope you will continue to follow the Korean scene in the future as well!
Thank you for reading this interview, and thank you to Mizenhauer for providing this opportunity.
For photos of Korean pros at live events you can follow Leimmia on Twitter @ Monotonesoo.
You can follow Mizenhauer on Twitter @ Mizenhauer.
Translator: Verecunda
