“What I really love about SC2 is the people I met through it”
Intro Jessica “Zombiegrub” Chernega is probably best known through her work as a Caster / Commentator for SC2 with Basetrade.tv. She hails from the US (most of the time). I reached out to her to catch up a bit.
1. You have been actively involved with SC2, the community and the professionals nearly since the beginnings in 2010. What do you love most about SC2 after all these time?
I still love what I did when I started - how interesting and ever- changing the game is. But, after all this time, what I really love about SC2 is the people I met through it, and all the friends I have.
2. Was there a conscious moment when you realised: I can actually make a living of this casting gig?
I actually had a pivotal moment in early 2015 where I was seriously considering going to Korea to teach abroad for a year. I could either do that, or go full-time into e-sports. I realized that I had a rare opportunity that no one else did, and decided to stay with casting and streaming. That's about when I did the math and made the tough decisions that led me to believe I could make a living.
3. You went to college and have a degree. Does it help you in your current line work?
Minimally. My degree is in animation, so I learned the basics of Adobe software. Otherwise, I just have a common interest with many others in my love of video games, just with a little more technical knowledge.
4. How did your family support you through all these crazy years up until now?
I've thought about this a lot, and I'm not sure when I told my parents I cast. Maybe in 2013 I had to tell them not to come into my room at certain times, but it must have been 2014 or later that I explained to them what I was doing. My family has always been supportive, but were of course hesitant to think it could be a career...I mean, even I was hesitant to believe that. But since then, they've recognized it as my job. My father helps me keep a career mindset (always suggesting to take classes to improve, how to network, etc) and my mother lets me vent. I have a very good relationship with my parents, and that's certainly helped with all the unsteadyness that is e-sports.
5. Let's put it out there: you are a woman. Nonetheless a woman in an environment that is unfortunately very hostile to female gamers and females in general. (twitch-chats and Overwatch, I'm looking at you…). How do you deal with all the sexist crap that is coming at you?
To be honest, SC2 is used to me and I'm used to SC2. That is to say, I remember in 2013 when I was 'coming up' - the amount of terrible comments and sexist shit and negativity was, well, what you hear about all the time. I've always been pretty good at ignoring it though - I think my goals and expectations are not influenced by outsiders, so I've always been comfortable with my work. Nowadays, with BasetradeTV mods being so good, and the fact that SC2 isn't growing that quickly, I have a lot of people that will do the dirty work for me..banning people, responding on reddit, etc.
Occasionally, I'll be thrown back to what it was like before. If I do a more casual event where no one really knows the scene but knows I'm a girl, there's a lot of that stupid stuff...like in Mean Girls when the guy asks 'do you want your muffin buttered' and all the other guys were snickering? Yeah, it's dumb, but it's that type of stuff. And then if people get angry at you, say I beat them in SC2, it's incredibly easy for them to throw out insults based on my gender. 6. Do you think there is need for more action from the involved parties in that regard? To educate everybody and protect female gamers? If so, any suggestions?
I'm not sure I'm a good person to ask...there are so many activists that I'm sure they would have a better response. I like to say I combat negativity with action instead of words, but I'm also not that type to believe words are useless. I think words, actions, discussion, spotlighting, articles, female-only tournaments are all very important and should be supported.
7. I think it's fair to say that you casted quite a lot these last years You and Rifkin often cast long hours and talk a lot of things, on and off topic, jokes and private stuff as well. We know a bit about your cat and your family. Is there a difference between Jessica and Zombiegrub? Do feel that you sometimes expose yourself to much or do you feel it is still balanced?
I really don't think there's a difference. I have to remember Jessica is my real name when I hang out with old friends, though. I don't overshare and talk about everything in my life, and I'm not involved in enough drama to even potentially overshare, I think. I actually really like my balance.
Of to lighter stuff
8. You stated that you like to create art (that you also studied in a way). Is there a game that you find aesthetically the most pleasing?
Yeah, I majored in Media Arts & Animation with a focus on 3D environment and prop modeling. But I always loved storytelling more than I loved art. Anyway, a game I feel is most aesthetically pleasing...hmmm...I've rarely looked at a game and said 'that is so pretty, I love it'. Like people really liked Okami, but I played it and it was okay, yknow? So when I think of a pleasing game, I think of sound first, in which case Final Fantasy 8 always puts me in such a good mood because of the sound. In terms of visuals, Shadow of the Colossus gave me feels and was a very pretty game. Oh, and Katamari Damacy was so fun and goofy, it appealed to me a lot with its silly art.
9. You recently traveled a lot and stayed in Korea for a while. Could you name one highlight of each trip?
Each trip I've taken for SC2? That would be a lot, but I do have a special highlight for each one. I'll stick to the highlights of the highlights, I guess. MLG Anaheim was my first real SC2 tournament that I attended live, and I got to meet Rifkin, Feardragon, Tempo, Livibee, etc for the first time. IEM Toronto I got to watch Flash win his first tournament in SC2. WCS Toronto's highlight was placing in the Redbull Archon tourney with Rif. Homestory cup was a big deal - first time we traveled for doing a cast, first time to Germany, HSC is always just so cool. But it's also where I became friends with Scarlett, and she's been a bff since. HIAT's highlight was getting ice cream mid-cast. Blizzcon 2015's highlight was attending the after-after party and playing poker with Boxer. I watched the Proleague finals live with Feardragon for Korea 2015. At DH Austin 2016 I celebrated my birthday Thursday with all my friends...and felt the pain of it that entire weekend. WCS Montreal 2016 had the best after-party ever. NationWars let me make awesome new friends...the trip was so long I don't have a highlight moment, all of it was highlight. And finally Korea 2016's highlight is probably eating chicken and drinking beer with everyone the first week I was there. Sorry that was long qq
10. Do you still run and weightlift? Could you lift Rifkin? ;-)
I don't run so much, I hate the cold. I still weight lift. I cannot lift Rifkin haha.
11. Over the years you have been interviewed quite a lot. What's the one question that annoys you the most and that you wish people would stop asking you?
I dunno if I've been interviewed a lot, but sometimes it seems to come in waves haha. I don't have a question I'm annoyed at, actually...I think people have gotten a lot better at interviewing since the early days.
12. You discover that all your co-casters were replaced by aliens. Which SC2 Character should help you fight them?
I'll always choose Kerrigan, because Tricia Helfer is da bomb.
13. If you could magically be really good at another game outside of SC2, which game would that be?
Brood War. I'd get so much nerd cred.
14. Any last shout-outs and comments?
Shout out to all my fans and make sure to watch my stream and when I cast on BTTV. :D
Thank you ZombieGrub for taking the time and answering a fans questions All the best wishes and glhf!
Great interview! Love ZG, great caster! All important question tho - does she have a bf ^_^? Just saying, I'm single : p. Keep up the good work BasetradeTV!
On March 04 2017 16:24 Arghmyliver wrote: Great interview! Love ZG, great caster! All important question tho - does she have a bf ^_^? Just saying, I'm single : p. Keep up the good work BasetradeTV!
Thanks! Yey for ZG
Well, maybe that falls under the topic of "keeping things private that are private"
I think the interview could do without the astonishing realisation that ZG is female and questions on how females could be protected and males educated. There's no gene that makes women incapable of standing up for themselves and the notion that men need to tread around them like delicate little flowers is more sexist than construction workers howling at the sight of some hot passerby ass.
On March 05 2017 07:16 Saechiis wrote: I think the interview could do without the astonishing realisation that ZG is female and questions on how females could be protected and males educated. There's no gene that makes women incapable of standing up for themselves and the notion that men need to tread around them like delicate little flowers is more sexist than construction workers howling at the sight of some hot passerby ass.
Nice interview otherwise.
Hi! Thank you for your comment and reaction. I knew that these questions would maybe get some critical reactions. You give a good example of the fine line that there is regarding the question of sexism in gaming. Yes, obviously women can stand up for themselves.
SC2 is a wonderful opportunity for female gamers to just play a game without regards to their gender.
The problem for me arises as soon as the male gamers realise that they maybe got their asses wooped by a *gasp* "grill". As soon as women are visible as women in gaming, then the problem starts.
Two times in my life I was in a proper fight, with fists and all. Both times the attackers outnumbered me and my friends at least 2 to 1 and there was no obvious reason for them to attack us. They did it just for fun or just because they thought we were "good" victims. It was terrifying and traumatic.
In my perception, women in gaming experience often times the same situation. It has nothing to do with the fact that they can or cannot defend themselves. It has to do with the sheer numbers of assholes that arise and gang up on the statistically smaller percentage of female gamers in every game. They cannot win the fight by standing up to this sexism alone. And for that, I asked the questions. It is no topic to be glossed over at all, like any form of sexism and racism there is.
I hope it is more transparent why I felt I needed to ask that question. Thank you.
@Korakys
Thank you very much. Do you have some specific suggestions? That would be helpful.
I'd have to disagree with you on this. Hear me out. The problem isn't that they get attacked, because all of us who play competitive games ONLINE get the same crap. To say they get more crap because they're girls is something very speculative. How do you make the distinction and who are you to make that distinction? If a girl isn't able to take the abuse and toxicity that comes with the territory, she shouldn't be playing at all.
In fact most of my female friends online don't have a problem being treated like crap, because they understand all of us experience that. The real problem women face is that they aren't taken as seriously as the other male competitors. This is a more subtle and in my opinion painful form of sexism. Where most guys are taken seriously by default, women need to work hard to prove themselves and even then there's this one retard who is like "its a girl hurr durr".
So obviously there are things to be improved here, but lets not make it out to be something more than it actually is. Both men and women get treated like crap online and its kind of insulting asking such a question, because with the question comes the base assumption that it's harder for women to deal with this kind of thing which is really demeaning.
And honestly saying stuff like - "Nonetheless a woman in an environment that is unfortunately very hostile to female gamers and females in general" - is disrespectful to gamers in general. There are trolls online, there are ragers online, but gamers in particular are FAR less hostile to women in general than almost any other mediums out there. So lets respect each other and not throw out such far reaching statements.
On March 05 2017 20:30 Kaewins wrote: I'd have to disagree with you on this. Hear me out. The problem isn't that they get attacked, because all of us who play competitive games ONLINE get the same crap. To say they get more crap because they're girls is something very speculative. How do you make the distinction and who are you to make that distinction?
In fact most of my female friends online don't have a problem being treated like crap, because they understand all of us experience that. The real problem women face is that they aren't taken as seriously as the other male competitors. This is a more subtle and in my opinion painful form of sexism. Where most guys are taken seriously by default, women need to work hard to prove themselves and even then there's this one retard who is like "its a girl hurr durr".
So obviously there are things to be improved here, but lets not make it out to be something more than it actually is. Both men and women get treated like crap online and its kind of insulting asking such a question, because with the question comes the base assumption that it's harder for women to deal with this kind of thing which is really demeaning.
And honestly saying stuff like - "Nonetheless a woman in an environment that is unfortunately very hostile to female gamers and females in general" - is disrespectful to gamers in general. There are trolls online, there are ragers online, but gamers in particular are FAR less hostile to women in general than almost any other mediums out there. So lets respect each other and not throw out such far reaching statements.
"If a girl isn't able to take the abuse and toxicity that comes with the territory, she shouldn't be playing at all." I'm just gonna put this out there for ya dude: You are completely out of line. Girls getting attacked for being girls is a problem (and is sexist, btw). Men being oppressive toward and attacking women in online (and, especially, gaming) communities is a problem, and that line of thinking is part of it. So let's respect the other people around us, not throw out such ridiculous statements, and be as positive and inclusive as possible.
So when I'm getting attacked and abused, I don't have the girl card and it's okay because I'm a guy and I have to deal with it same all other guys out there. But if a girl gets the same treatment, it has to be because she is a girl and the evil male gamers are out there to get her. Double standard much?
You could be right though, I mean ewww those nasty sexist gamers are so mean and scary...
On March 05 2017 20:30 Kaewins wrote: In fact most of my female friends online don't have a problem being treated like crap, because they understand all of us experience that. The real problem women face is that they aren't taken as seriously as the other male competitors. This is a more subtle and in my opinion painful form of sexism. Where most guys are taken seriously by default, women need to work hard to prove themselves and even then there's this one retard who is like "its a girl hurr durr".
women not being "taken as seriously" happens in other walks of life, not just gaming. My #3 customer is a telemarketing company that renews subscriptions for Magazines and the female sales people are not taken as seriously. Their calls are shorter and less involved and their sales are higher. No one worries really about the $30 or 1 year subscription renewal when its a female sales person. When its a guy calling the request for renewal is taken more seriously. In the setting i'm discussing there are advantages to not being taken as seriously. These are all tendencies it does not mean every single call a female is on does the customer instantly pulls out their credit card and buy after 10 seconds. Every call is different and these are the over all tendencies. The owner of the business prefers to hire females because of the sales stats that have been gathered and accumulated over the last 21 years of his business. In the 6 years i've been making custom apps for the place its been about 2/3's female and 1/3 male.
so a negative in one setting can be a positive in another setting.
@Kaewins I take your point, I formulated some strong sentences.
Nevertheless - The argument is not that gamers are all sexists, the argument and the experience of many female gamers is that they get harassed more and treated differently. There is, I believe, even some research regarding that.
You make a valid point - the fact of the rude, racist and otherwise negative attitude and language overall in gaming, especially online, is a problem in it self.
That just doesn't counter the problem that women experience these thing double or triple just because they are female.
I also would like to point out what blunderfulguy said: the fact the the environment of many gaming communities is toxic against all kinds of people should never ever be taken as a given or "normal".
The word says is all - something toxic is never good and should be cleaned and taken care of.
In this Interview I also made a point on not only talking about that, but I felt it would be good to ask a woman about it. Because the other problem that we have here is, that women in the community are very cautious to engage, because they get so much crap about it. Here for example, I m pretty sure we are all men discussing a problem that we cant fully comprehend...
But, to not let this get out of hand - Thanks for all your contributions. Lets just remember that this is about the Interview with Zombiegrub
Yes, sexist talk happens more often in the video game world than "irl". But so does all other forms of disparaging talk and trolling. I don't think the environment in e-sports, in general, is any more toxic for women than for men. At least among games with more mature audiences - so not necessarily say, some xbox FPS game. I am not talking about 11 year old kids here.
But anyways, if anything, my personal experience from observing chat on many mediums is that male gamers generally seem to be very accepting and welcoming towards female gamers (I mean.. why wouldn't they be... use common sense.). That isn't to say there aren't shocking exceptions and horrible behavior, but it certainly doesn't stand out as something that is more prevalent than shocking or horrible treatment towards other features of gamers.
Unless you're already looking to confirm something. Then I am sure that you will see whatever you want to see.
Regarding Zombiegrub, I have always thought she is one of the best casters for sc2. Her knowledge of the game, and rationality when casting, has impressed me for a long time. I feel that the community is very accepting of her and appreciative of the work she does.
You know what is a problem in today's society right now? In particular in the USA? Glorifying victimhood.
Your point about victimhood maybe true, but as somebody that doesn't live in the US I cant say a lot about it.
Regarding the interview questions and the topic of sexism in gaming:
I was not fishing for confirmation of my own ideas: as an regular viewer of Basetrade.tv I see it happen all the time in twitch-chat. That is also what led to my strong questions. Just take IEM at the moment - The comments about Smix in twitch-chat are just plain terrible. I m not saying its the majority, but it is happening continuesly... so it is there, it is visible and it is not really being taken care of a lot of times.
Im not talking about e.sports, its about the behaviour of many people in the community.
Although luckily, there is a lot of positive attitude too: for example in the basetrade.tv chat but also here on TL in the Forums. So if I m trying to accomplish anything at all, it is this: dont tolerate this type of things. Nothing about this is normal! And hopefully down the line it will not be necessary to ask these type of questions anymore.
ya, i know members of my race who go on twitch and twitter and make racist comments against my race; they do this so that racism gets talked about more. any anonymous person can say anything for their own reasons. you'll never stop the members of my own race from making disparaging remarks on anonymous platforms like twitter and twitch. In fact, you talking about how terrible it is will only encourage them to keep going. they do it just to stir the pot.
there is no way to know how many of these twitch and twitter trolls have the same motive and no way to know how they truly feel. one thing is for sure they are taking advantage of their total anonymity.
Your point about victimhood maybe true, but as somebody that doesn't live in the US I cant say a lot about it.
Regarding the interview questions and the topic of sexism in gaming:
I was not fishing for confirmation of my own ideas: as an regular viewer of Basetrade.tv I see it happen all the time in twitch-chat. That is also what led to my strong questions. Just take IEM at the moment - The comments about Smix in twitch-chat are just plain terrible. I m not saying its the majority, but it is happening continuesly... so it is there, it is visible and it is not really being taken care of a lot of times.
Im not talking about e.sports, its about the behaviour of many people in the community.
Although luckily, there is a lot of positive attitude too: for example in the basetrade.tv chat but also here on TL in the Forums. So if I m trying to accomplish anything at all, it is this: dont tolerate this type of things. Nothing about this is normal! And hopefully down the line it will not be necessary to ask these type of questions anymore.
That's fair. We shouldn't tolerate poor behavior towards any group. Thanks for the interview. I did not know she had a degree in animation.
I keep forgetting to use the feedback sandwich, y'know say something nice first, then the negative feedback, then finish on something nice. People get less hurt with that.
I will finish on something nice though, I am quite the fan of BTTV and thoroughly enjoyed the interview, despite the white knighting.
A quick question though, I noticed she plays Terran on her stream, but I always thought she was a Zerg player, did she switch for LotV or am I completely wrong?
On March 05 2017 20:30 Kaewins wrote: I'd have to disagree with you on this. Hear me out. The problem isn't that they get attacked, because all of us who play competitive games ONLINE get the same crap. To say they get more crap because they're girls is something very speculative. How do you make the distinction and who are you to make that distinction?
In fact most of my female friends online don't have a problem being treated like crap, because they understand all of us experience that. The real problem women face is that they aren't taken as seriously as the other male competitors. This is a more subtle and in my opinion painful form of sexism. Where most guys are taken seriously by default, women need to work hard to prove themselves and even then there's this one retard who is like "its a girl hurr durr".
So obviously there are things to be improved here, but lets not make it out to be something more than it actually is. Both men and women get treated like crap online and its kind of insulting asking such a question, because with the question comes the base assumption that it's harder for women to deal with this kind of thing which is really demeaning.
And honestly saying stuff like - "Nonetheless a woman in an environment that is unfortunately very hostile to female gamers and females in general" - is disrespectful to gamers in general. There are trolls online, there are ragers online, but gamers in particular are FAR less hostile to women in general than almost any other mediums out there. So lets respect each other and not throw out such far reaching statements.
"If a girl isn't able to take the abuse and toxicity that comes with the territory, she shouldn't be playing at all." I'm just gonna put this out there for ya dude: You are completely out of line. Girls getting attacked for being girls is a problem (and is sexist, btw). Men being oppressive toward and attacking women in online (and, especially, gaming) communities is a problem, and that line of thinking is part of it. So let's respect the other people around us, not throw out such ridiculous statements, and be as positive and inclusive as possible.
Tangent on sexism, don't read if you're not as easily triggered as I am and just liked the interview, sorry for derailing your thread OP.
I wonder whether we're really helping the female cause by "protecting" them and pushing a "don't be mean to girls" agenda. Online bullying isn't gender exclusive. I regularly get told to kill myself. Perhaps they'd tell me to stay in the kitchen if they thought I was female. Perhaps they'd tell me I was a fat fuck if they thought I was fat. Maybe they'd tell me to get a life if they thought I played too many games.
What seems sexist to me is to look at those insults and start a crusade over the one targeted at females. A slap doesn't hurt a woman more than it does a man, neither do insults. So why are we so eager to ride our white horses into battle to protect the maidens?
I was bullied as a kid, white male, tall, good looking (by society's standards), good at sports. Insecure also, combined with my niceness that could only mean I was gay. And so people called me gay and I was offended because at that age being called gay was some serious shit. I couldn't fathom that people would purposely say means things to me while I tried so hard to be nice. Then one day there was this other guy in my year, similar to me plus freckles. He didn't partake in bullying others and was generally a nice person, a group of guys called him gay in passing. He stopped, smiled and said, yeah, you want some? That day I learned.
In male culture (and I believe human culture in general) everyone is subject to bullying. It's not as much about having the right arbitrary physical attributes as it is about your reaction to provocation. Bullying is a way of improving ones' social status by means of pushing others down. People naturally bully because gaining a higher social status has been proven to be a useful evolutionary trait. The wrong way to look at bullying would be to see it as something personal. For me to conclude that I was targeted because I am <insert attribute> would be me giving way too much credit to the malicious intent of my bullies. I wasn't bullied because those kids hated me or because I had an attribute that deserved it. Bullying is simply a human behaviour and I was the easiest target.
In the same vein we shouldn't conclude females get bullied because they're female. Rather they're bullied because people bully and being female is the easiest distinction to make in an online game. The movement against sexism is only proportional to the insecurity associated with the female gender and I can't help but find it embarassing that we're collectively so offended by what is essentially a form of school yard bullying.
Everyone gets provoked, it's your reaction that makes the distinction between being a victim (fugly freckles) and I want to sit on your face freckles.
Sometimes there's positive sexism. E.g. when girls make mistakes in CS: GO, others ignore their mistakes and sometimes even flirt with them. Because I'm a guy, I get insults if I don't shoot properly. What about that?
On March 06 2017 04:13 Shield wrote: Sometimes there's positive sexism. E.g. when girls make mistakes in CS: GO, others ignore their mistakes and sometimes even flirt with them. Because I'm a guy, I get insults if I don't shoot properly. What about that?
o.o
This thread is supposed to be about ZombieGrub, and giving her some props for contributing to StarCraft. Can you all just let this go for once?
On March 06 2017 03:30 Kaewins wrote: I keep forgetting to use the feedback sandwich, y'know say something nice first, then the negative feedback, then finish on something nice. People get less hurt with that.
I will finish on something nice though, I am quite the fan of BTTV and thoroughly enjoyed the interview, despite the white knighting.
A quick question though, I noticed she plays Terran on her stream, but I always thought she was a Zerg player, did she switch for LotV or am I completely wrong?
The "feedback" sandwich tends to lose its effect when people see/hear it all the time, and even all the more so when the listener even uses the feedback sandwich him/herself on others too!
Especially on forums where people often don't read. They skim, and skim over your feedback sandwich completely, and only read what they want to read, in many cases only the negative content and none of the positive.
ZG has been a Terran player as long as I have followed her. I'm sure like many of us she's done off-racing, but her knowledge of Terran really showcases how she's truly a Terran main.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/729oLSS.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IzqvWKr.jpg)
You and Rifkin often cast long hours and talk a lot of things, on and off topic, jokes and private stuff as well. We know a bit about your cat and your family. Is there a difference between Jessica and Zombiegrub? Do feel that you sometimes expose yourself to much or do you feel it is still balanced?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1O25Hyn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ysa5Ve1.jpg)
