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Here’s the community update on behalf of the SC II balance team:
Next Patch
Based on the feedback that we have been hearing, it sounds like the Liberator change will be a good one. Early next week, we will be patching the live game to change the Liberators Concord Cannon base damage from 85 to 75.
Map Bug Fixes
We made some bug fixes to certain maps which will go live early next week, at the same time as the Liberator change.
Cactus Valley LE
• Units can now reach and defend against enemy Liberators at base locations.
Abyssal Reef LE
• Doodads were removed near certain ramps to prevent confusion and clipping issues.
• Map description was updated.
Tropic Shores
• Creep will now spread and behave properly at base locations.
Refinery XJ-17
• Smoke stack heights were updated on the map.
Testing Matchmaking
We will also be testing out a few other changes. These will be placed in the Testing Matchmaking queue as they are more experimental.
Widow Mine +shield impact damage changed from +35 to +20 and +shield splash damage changed from +40 to +25.
Hydralisk health changed from 80 to 90.
Carrier Interceptor cost changed from 10 to 15.
Like all public tests, these numbers, and the changes themselves, are not final and will be subject to debate over the course of testing. We are looking to set up the testing matchmaking queue early next week as well. Thank you for your continued support, and let’s start discussing and testing the impact of these new changes!
Those carrier nerfs are becoming the new bunker changes.
If my maths are correct the number of mines required to one shot several adepts/zealots/stalkers actually won't change, so this is definitely a big nerf vs oracles and single targets, but the interaction vs many gateway units remains the same, which was the goal right? Right?
A simple removal of the bonus to splash vs shields while keeping the 125+35 single target would make more sense imo.
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Wait, shield impact damage is lower than shield splash damage?
Impact damage is the damage on the primary target unit right?
Anyway, the changes seem pretty good to me. Not sure about the Widow mine though.
Edit: Let's have some first impression polls:
Poll: Widowmine change (less shield damage)?Bad (292) 49% Good (253) 42% Neutral (52) 9% 597 total votes Your vote: Widowmine change (less shield damage)? (Vote): Good
(Vote): Neutral
(Vote): Bad
Poll: Hydralisk health changed from 80 to 90?Good (253) 46% Bad (241) 44% Neutral (60) 11% 554 total votes Your vote: Hydralisk health changed from 80 to 90? (Vote): Good
(Vote): Neutral
(Vote): Bad
Poll: Carrier Interceptor cost changed from 10 to 15?Good (358) 71% Bad (97) 19% Neutral (47) 9% 502 total votes Your vote: Carrier Interceptor cost changed from 10 to 15? (Vote): Good
(Vote): Neutral
(Vote): Bad
Edit 2: Bonus poll:
A popular suggestion is to leave the single target damage of Widowmines at 160, so an Oracle as well as Zealots, Adepts and Stalkers would still die in one shot. Only decrease the splash shield damage instead (exact value would have to be tested), which can be compensated by the new tanks defensively. See aLive vs MyungSiK  .
Poll: Leave + shield impact dmg at 35, only reduce + shield splash dmg.Good (232) 63% Bad (97) 26% Neutral (39) 11% 368 total votes Your vote: Leave + shield impact dmg at 35, only reduce + shield splash dmg. (Vote): Good
(Vote): Neutral
(Vote): Bad
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Widow Mine +shield impact damage changed from +35 to +20 and +shield splash damage changed from +40 to +25.
Hydralisk health changed from 80 to 90.
Carrier Interceptor cost changed from 10 to 15.
+ Show Spoiler +
Finally -. -
I still would favor an overhaul of Zerg AA among other massive changes, but in terms of keeping it realistic I at least like that the hydra is not getting swept under the rug.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
Welp, there were 3 pro players on Wardi's Natural Expansion talk show this last week. 2 of them Protoss players. Not one of them thought the liberator nerf was a good idea. And mines not one-shotting oracles is just sad.
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On January 28 2017 04:31 Musicus wrote:
Wait, shield impact damage is lower than shield splash damage?
Impact damage is the damage on the primary target unit right?
Anyway, the changes seem pretty good to me. Not sure about the Widow mine though.
mines had 125+35 vs shield, and 40+40 splash
that means it is now 125+20 and 40+25
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On January 28 2017 04:34 Elentos wrote:
Welp, there were 3 pro players on Wardi's Natural Expansion talk show this last week. 2 of them Protoss players. Not one of them thought the liberator nerf was a good idea. And mines not one-shotting oracles is just sad.
Yeah feels like 80 damage on libs + mine nerf would have been enough
And oracles are gonna be so annoying, i'd rather mines keeping 125+35 single target damage and remove the bonus to shield for splash.
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On January 28 2017 04:35 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:31 Musicus wrote:
Wait, shield impact damage is lower than shield splash damage?
Impact damage is the damage on the primary target unit right?
Anyway, the changes seem pretty good to me. Not sure about the Widow mine though. mines had 125+35 vs shield, and 40+40 splash that means it is now 125+20 and 40+25
Thanks!
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On January 28 2017 04:35 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:34 Elentos wrote:
Welp, there were 3 pro players on Wardi's Natural Expansion talk show this last week. 2 of them Protoss players. Not one of them thought the liberator nerf was a good idea. And mines not one-shotting oracles is just sad. Yeah feels like 80 damage on libs + mine nerf would have been enough And oracles are gonna be so annoying, i'd rather mines keeping 125+35 single target damage and remove the bonus to shield for splash.
I can't wait for the sickest new micro trick where you purposely fly the oracle over the mine in the mineral line, drag the splash onto the SCV's and one-shot 10 of them with the oracle.
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I think they should leave the single target widow mine damage as it is and instead only reduce the + shield splash damage.
Or they could reduce Oracle health to compensate, would even help zergs .
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just nerf carriers into state of complete unviability, the worst unit to play against in the entire game
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So, mines wont kill an oracle, the new cyclone tickles the oracle. 1 base all ins will be harder to hold without the mine as well. Nice times ahead.
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On January 28 2017 04:47 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
So, mines wont kill an oracle, the new cyclone tickles the oracle. 1 base all ins will be harder to hold without the mine as well. Nice times ahead.
It takes 5 marines to kill an Oracle. You act like they have 200 health and are invisible.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37124 Posts
Nerf widow mine? Okay, fine. But nerf the oracle too. Otherwise, terran is screwed... Give Cyclone AA a buff please...
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On January 28 2017 04:47 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
So, mines wont kill an oracle, the new cyclone tickles the oracle. 1 base all ins will be harder to hold without the mine as well. Nice times ahead.
They should just also increase mothership core vision to 14, reduce the blink cooldown and be done with it 
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A simple removal of the bonus to splash vs shields while keeping the 125+35 single target would make more sense imo.
Exactly the proposed changes will make it not 1 shot Zealots, Adepts, Stalkers and Oracles. This is just broken x) also the other changes suck as well.
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On January 28 2017 04:50 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:47 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
So, mines wont kill an oracle, the new cyclone tickles the oracle. 1 base all ins will be harder to hold without the mine as well. Nice times ahead. It takes 5 marines to kill an Oracle. You act like they have 200 health and are invisible.
The problem here is that the intent was to nerf mines vs gate units. This is a nerf to terran early game with 1-2 WM, but it barely changes anything to the mid-lategame
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On January 28 2017 04:43 Musicus wrote:I think they should leave the single target widow mine damage as it is and instead only reduce the + shield splash damage. Or they could reduce Oracle health to compensate, would even help zergs .
Honestly, I don't see it as that outlandish to consider removing pulsar beam entirely from the game. It's one of the most uninspired abilities there is.
Maybe reduce the oracles cost and balance around stasis ward instead so it becomes a non-lethal harassment/support unit as was originally intended. Stasis ward was one of the better ideas added to LotV imo. It adds more strategy and uncertainty in the midst of army engagements.
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Remove Oracle attack already! Terran openers HAVE to account for it (and thus limits our builds), and now since Widow Mines don't one shot them, it's even worse.
There is no reason a unit like Oracle should have an anti-worker attack when they can already do so many other great things that don't involve just killing players outright like vision and Stasis.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On January 28 2017 04:50 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:47 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
So, mines wont kill an oracle, the new cyclone tickles the oracle. 1 base all ins will be harder to hold without the mine as well. Nice times ahead. It takes 5 marines to kill an Oracle. You act like they have 200 health and are invisible.
A widow mine kills an oracle. A group of marines just keep it away from your mineral line for a bit.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM809rKWoAAiV0C.jpg)
