EPTGuru removed from True Esports - Page 10
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Kashim
Poland1152 Posts
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Ludwigvan
Germany2371 Posts
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Ingvar
Russian Federation421 Posts
But I find recent trend of witchhunting people for their opinion concerning. Yes, "hating muslims" is wrong but forbidding people to express their views doesn't help to discourage said views. | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy830 Posts
"I think xyz are stupid because [...]" is an opinion. "I hate xyz" is not. HATE SPEECH IS NOT FREE SPEECH. | ||
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SKN1995
Japan204 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 11 2016 21:44 HsDLTitich wrote: Can we get a disclaimer in this thread? HATING A GROUP OF PEOPLE IS NOT AN OPINION. It's just bigotry. "I think xyz are stupid because [...]" is an opinion. "I hate xyz" is not. HATE SPEECH IS NOT FREE SPEECH. It's a bigoted opinion mate. He was not stating a fact. On November 11 2016 22:12 SKN1995 wrote: You would think people were smart enough to realize Guru wasn't necessarily speaking on behalf of his team when he was expressing his point of view/trying to be funny but people are not very smart so his team took PR precautionary action. We do realize this. I'm sure his team realizes this. I'm sure if his sponsor was aware of what transpired they would realize this. Should they spend A) untold hours correcting people by telling them they're not anti muslim they just pay people who are or B) just cut ties with someone who is and make it clear through action | ||
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Haukinger
Germany131 Posts
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SKN1995
Japan204 Posts
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Supter
France382 Posts
On November 12 2016 00:41 Haukinger wrote: Actually, stating "I hate <xy>" is just stating a fact about the speaker. Whether or not <xy> is worth being hated or not has nothing to do with it. I don't know what business relation Guru has with True Esports, but any labor court would only laugh at an employer who fires someone just for stating facts. He hasn't been "fired for stating facts". As a team member, he's a public figure, and what he said isn't appropriate when you're representing someone else. I have a hard time understanding on what ground you guys are defending him. His comment was uncalled for and blatant bigotry ; the team he was in decided that it was bad press and fired him. A normal day in a normal world. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On November 12 2016 01:31 Supter wrote: He hasn't been "fired for stating facts". As a team member, he's a public figure, and what he said isn't appropriate when you're representing someone else. I have a hard time understanding on what ground you guys are defending him. His comment was uncalled for and blatant bigotry ; the team he was in decided that it was bad press and fired him. A normal day in a normal world. Exactly, he isn't confessing something when pressed, he is actively spreading his hatred. If he hates muslims (because he's into bigotry and a bad person or whatnot), then the sentence "i hate muslims" is a fact, but stating it is racist bigotry, a provocation, since he not only feels that way but obviously also feels the need to spread his hatred. Not saying racists are ok if they keep it to their private life: I actually prefer them to speak out and getting their punishment. | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On November 12 2016 03:09 Kafka777 wrote: Guru is a clown and everyone who listens to what he says knows that, especially polish viewers. It goes without saying that he does not hate anyone. In this case it was most likely a gaming strategy aimed at tilting TLO. So , if you know the context think what you will. It was inappropriate to make this statement in a public game, very silly, but it would be worse if the statement was serious. Of course actions taken by TLO and True Esports are fully justified and understandable. It isn't silly, it is straight out disgusting. | ||
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
Also I think it is not forbidden to openly state that you hate muslims, IF you are not representing anything but yourself. Because guru represents a team but not only himself I think it is okay to kick him from the team. Edit: I don't hate muslims and think it is not right to do so, but if you do you should be allowed to express yourself in a reasonable fashion | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On November 12 2016 00:41 Haukinger wrote: Actually, stating "I hate <xy>" is just stating a fact about the speaker. Whether or not <xy> is worth being hated or not has nothing to do with it. I don't know what business relation Guru has with True Esports, but any labor court would only laugh at an employer who fires someone just for stating facts. I'd like too see the employer that doesn't fire someone for stating "I hate muslims" in public. lol. can't believe people here are defending him. I mean obviously he was joking but "he is entitled to his opinion" is bullshit. didn't expect to see such primitive people on TL. | ||
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MindForeverBurning
12 Posts
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rotta
5582 Posts
On November 16 2016 12:33 MindForeverBurning wrote: the ACLU defending the right of neo-Nazis to march through Skokie, IL. I hate Illinois Nazis | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
The delicate point about that in fact is if someone would have been removed from a team if he stated to hate christians or not and if it was even carried to the public by the watchers of a stream or the participating players and believed to be meaningful. Would anyone care if I stated to hate science-tologists? It is a bit naive to believe to report such opinions is in any way helping the whole hate thing instead of empowering it. There is alot of hate out there. From muslims and against muslims. It doesn't belong in esports for sure. And forum population is rightfully divided about that whole issue imo. It isn't at all as clear as some white knights want to put it. Religions have brought alot of harm over the world. Still it is wrong to hate them or their believers? Vegetarians have done nothing similar and I bet no team in the world would care if anyone stated to hate vegetarians. | ||
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HoZBlooddrop
Italy324 Posts
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On November 16 2016 12:33 MindForeverBurning wrote: The debate over hate speech vs. free speech is long standing and there are nuances that have produced surprising results, such as the ACLU defending the right of neo-Nazis to march through Skokie, IL. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech and https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie. that's just silly though. You don't have to (and shouldn't) be tolerant towards intolerance. Additionally hes going to be able to say what he said without anybody imprisoning him, however it will have social consequences (because people realize how stupid you are if you say something like that). it fits within free speech fairly well. (If there's even such a thing as "free speech" people have butchered the original meaning of this quite a lot) | ||
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bypLy
757 Posts
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