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so david kim is at it again did he not learn when he said "mech is too strong" only to realize nobody can play mech against super swarmhosts and tempest ability spam?
mech is 100% unplayable because of this, he has no testing data to go from
he must first enable mech to be viable, then he can balance it if necessary, right now tanks are fine and do not need a fire rate reduction and honestly this is in the exact line of thinking he has had all along which is that he knows best when he clearly has no idea how weak mech is currently.
maybe you should ask mech players for feedback instead of biased zerg and protoss players david kim? if you nerf the tank fire rate the point of increasing the damage is meaningless, make up your mind but dont bullshit us with this
i am losing my patience giving you feedback replays youtube videos and comments not to mention testing the map for you, only to have you ignore everything and do the wrong things
we need ANTI AIR for mech, do not change tanks instead give terran something that can shoot up!
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It boggles my mind how some people are arguing that bio would be used less or would suddenly be underpowered if mech is made good lol.
If mech is made playable...it makes Terran have more options instead of just 16 marine drop 90% of the games or however many that is right now.
Bio will still be the same as it has been for years - ridiculously mobile, a-move, and quite easy to play.
I'm not saying that "bio is easy" to trigger anyone...it's just fact.
Bio play in general is really simple - u make marines/marauder/medivacs then box select to split. The splitting part is the only "tough" part that someone can argue. The rest is you load up medivacs and right click to the enemy base.
Mech has always not been viable to the point it has so many weaknesses and ways to almost auto-lose the game. Bio has never really had that issue of your army supply suddenly becoming worthless.
There are mech games where 10 void rays can push back a 200/200 mech army because there's no anti-air unit on the field or that can trade with air from mech. So mech has to sit back and turtle into viking+raven.
Bio can simply "make more marines" without much thought and it'll always be effective.
Anyways, i really hope they make mech viable, and not overpowered because no one wants overpowered mech either.
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On October 16 2016 19:00 redloser wrote:
Why not increase the supply from 4 to 6 and just leave it be?
That would leave it in the same state as Live Swarm Hosts.
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(disclaimer : I have barely played the test map, one troll game to see how blink DTs looked and that's it)
With buffed tanks/ravens + untouched vs ground libs, how does P deal with mech ?
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On October 17 2016 17:55 [PkF] Wire wrote:
(disclaimer : I have barely played the test map, one troll game to see how blink DTs looked and that's it)
With buffed tanks/ravens + untouched vs ground libs, how does P deal with mech ?
Immortals disruptors carriers blinkstalkers chargelots mass adepts warp prism abuse
i dont think you understand, protoss has no issues with mech its like fighting a protoss with more expensive but weaker units
bio play beats you because they multitask drop/split/micro mech has to "brave the storm" which means that you can easily counter it and crush it very hard
now there is going to be an adjustment phase because youve never had to adapt like zergs have, since mech has never been a thing in tvp, but that doesnt mean anything for balance as long as the gms in each region have zero issues beating mech PvT.
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"Immortals disruptors carriers blinkstalkers chargelots mass adepts warp prism abuse"
what kind of composition is this :D ??
Ah yeah, everything a protoss builds is "abuse"... eheh
Also, it's funny how zerg and protoss feedback is "biased"
while feedback from mech players is not..
Every time a read this thread I just hope Blizzard does NOT listen to feedback from the community..
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Avil, the problem with your statements like: "There are mech games where 10 void rays can push back a 200/200 mech army because there's no anti-air unit on the field or that can trade with air from mech. So mech has to sit back and turtle into viking+raven." suggests that u want to have "answer to everything" composition once u leave your base after 20 minutes of turtling and waiting fo ypir 200/200. Now that's not what starcraft is or should be about. We want dynamic games. If Blizz would do what u suggest it would be like- i'm turtling in my bases, got my 200/200 ans steamroll everything on the map because in that limit i got perfect counter to everything that my opponent could throw at me. It would be itself imba and stupid firdt of all. For example if i max on roach/hydra and go vs Protoss and see that he's got collosus and immortals i must concider follow up or mix my comp. U say that mech shouldn't. That it justt have to have perfect comp vs all once it's out on the map. Ridiculous.
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Jeez, how did we get from "Terran is super hard because bio is extremely powerful but fragile so you have to have 600 APM and broken wrist to play " to "well, bio is easy, no micro, A move across the map "? I leave for a couple of week and I'm already outdated in terran's whine. 
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On October 17 2016 18:30 FoxDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2016 17:55 [PkF] Wire wrote:
(disclaimer : I have barely played the test map, one troll game to see how blink DTs looked and that's it)
With buffed tanks/ravens + untouched vs ground libs, how does P deal with mech ? Immortals disruptors carriers blinkstalkers chargelots mass adepts warp prism abuse i dont think you understand, protoss has no issues with mech its like fighting a protoss with more expensive but weaker units bio play beats you because they multitask drop/split/micro mech has to "brave the storm" which means that you can easily counter it and crush it very hard now there is going to be an adjustment phase because youve never had to adapt like zergs have, since mech has never been a thing in tvp, but that doesnt mean anything for balance as long as the gms in each region have zero issues beating mech PvT.
Chargelot immortal archon was common composition vs mech in hots. Skytoss is an option as well since protons economy starts faster than mech econ
Mech isnt too mobile so harassing with adept is option or out expanding and overwhelming with gateway remax is as well
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On October 17 2016 14:57 avilo wrote:
Anyways, i really hope they make mech viable, and not overpowered because no one wants overpowered mech either.
Except you.
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On October 17 2016 03:48 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2016 03:33 JimmyJRaynor wrote:after additional play-testing with the cyclone i've changed my vote on the Cyclone. On October 15 2016 06:00 Ransomstarcraft wrote:
4. The Cyclone - The new cyclone is much more interesting and better designed than the old one. Terran does not need another unit that has to always be micro'd. Terran is the only race that doesn't have reliable tanking units and therefore is dependent on microing every unit. The live cyclone is so heavily dependent on micro that it's just gimmicky. It doesn't work with too many other units or compositions. These kind of units have a place, but Terran has greater needs in terms of mech and the transition to late game, so it fits better there. The hybrid ground dps and tankiness plus the anti-air potential (raised with micro) is a better design decision for the cyclone. generally speaking, i agree with the above opinion. i vote for the PTR Cyclone. PTR Cyclone > Live Cyclone It a makes early game tvt hell and is really bad against air compositions which old cyclone did decent enough until it could delay to your own air New one doesn't do that at all and dies to oracle whIle being stupid early game. Anti armor stationary unit is already there in tanks and thor
On your "early game tvt" point: if cyclone didn't stop reaper play, tvt openings would be plagued again by reaper vs. reaper play. It's an even trade in this regard.
On your "cyclone needs better AA" point: The new Cyclone simply needs an Anti-Air DPS buff. The design of the unit overall is simply better.
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On October 17 2016 18:44 VHbb wrote:
"Immortals disruptors carriers blinkstalkers chargelots mass adepts warp prism abuse"
what kind of composition is this :D ??
Ah yeah, everything a protoss builds is "abuse"... eheh
Also, it's funny how zerg and protoss feedback is "biased"
while feedback from mech players is not..
Every time a read this thread I just hope Blizzard does NOT listen to feedback from the community..
Bias is when you discriminate absent facts nothing else
as in your desire to dismiss every other opinion but your own.
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DK provided some recent feedback on the Cyclone.
his decision is to wait.
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20749876886
Thanks for all the feedback this week everyone. We want to circle back about the Cyclone.
As many of you have been pointing out, pros have started using this unit more often and it looks to be going to a good place. From your feedback, it sounds like most of you are curious to see what will develop instead of rebooting the unit. Making a call on what's best is tough here, because as we mentioned, we don't quite know what new meta pros may find for the Cyclone.
It sounds like the verdict is to wait - and we're okay with that, but we want to make sure that's what we all want.
Please let us know, and we'll make the necessary adjustments. Thanks!
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On October 15 2016 03:30 FrkFrJss wrote:
Yeah...pretty much everyone identified from the very beginning that the tempest spell would be ridiculous and/or op from the beginning.
Yes... everyone except the design team led by the brilliant David Kim... you know the people that are actually paid to design the game. Somehow the idea came out of one of their heads, and then they were pretty much the only ones who couldn't figure out it was ridiculous, just like they couldn't figure out that the Warhound was a terrible idea after some designer vomited that out of his brain and wasted valuable beta time and money on developing that unit.
Why are they still employed at Blizzard?
On October 17 2016 17:55 [PkF] Wire wrote:
(disclaimer : I have barely played the test map, one troll game to see how blink DTs looked and that's it)
With buffed tanks/ravens + untouched vs ground libs, how does P deal with mech ?
I've just been doing 1 base Adept/Void Ray all-ins with success. The Void Ray buff is fun.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 20 2016 13:12 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2016 03:30 FrkFrJss wrote:
Yeah...pretty much everyone identified from the very beginning that the tempest spell would be ridiculous and/or op from the beginning.
Yes... everyone except the design team led by the brilliant David Kim... you know the people that are actually paid to design the game. Somehow the idea came out of one of their heads, and then they were pretty much the only ones who couldn't figure out it was ridiculous, just like they couldn't figure out that the Warhound was a terrible idea after some designer vomited that out of his brain and wasted valuable beta time and money on developing that unit. Why are they still employed at Blizzard? Show nested quote +On October 17 2016 17:55 [PkF] Wire wrote:
(disclaimer : I have barely played the test map, one troll game to see how blink DTs looked and that's it)
With buffed tanks/ravens + untouched vs ground libs, how does P deal with mech ? I've just been doing 1 base Adept/Void Ray all-ins with success. The Void Ray buff is fun.
The warhound was a goliath with super overpowered haywire missiles against robotic units
if you removed the missiles the unit wouldve been fine
i just balanced your unit that was "ridiculous" in 2 seconds.
what you dont know is "why would anyone build thors when they have cheaper more mobile anti air that costs less supply per dps that deals with swarms of small units better"
the answer is nobody would make thors if there was a goliath type unit and blizzard knows this, it is beyond the point of disagreement, the only way they would redeem the thor would be to increase the splash to the point it win the competition against equal supply in warhounds
so they made up a giant lie about "it stepped on the marauder" which isnt true because they did remove the haywire missiles making it a perfect goliath after their last nerf in the pre beta, and how do i know this?
you can add warhounds in the editor and play with them, and they function exactly like a goliath with no anti robotic unit bs only a mediocre anti ground attack, and a long range anti armored anti air attack.
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These Changes come after BLizzcon or when hit's the major Patch?
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On October 21 2016 09:29 Primelot wrote:
These Changes come after BLizzcon or when hit's the major Patch?
Sometime after blizzcon
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On October 20 2016 13:12 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2016 03:30 FrkFrJss wrote:
Yeah...pretty much everyone identified from the very beginning that the tempest spell would be ridiculous and/or op from the beginning.
Yes... everyone except the design team led by the brilliant David Kim... you know the people that are actually paid to design the game. Why are they still employed at Blizzard?
why you ask? i'll tell you why.
Greg Black and David Kim are employed at Blizzard for so long because their bosses ( Morhaime, Sigaty, Browder ) know how to identify, hire , and nurture top notch game designers. I do not think you know how to nurture, develop and identify top notch game designers. Therefore, I'll go with Blizzard's actions over your words every day and twice on sundays.
I'm really happy with the game ( Artosis says he has never been more excited about Sc2 than right now ). I'm also really happy with Overwatch. Its obvious that the Blizzard products that are not "my kind of game" are great games. Blizzard makes the best games in the world.
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don't worry about the "raynor" puppet BronzeKnee, he's just a blind bully who fancies trying to get a nice reputation by simply always praising the "big guys with the money". He likes provoking people through sheer disdain.
The truth I'm afraid is that Activision-Blizzard knows how to identify, hire, and empower obedient liars.
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EPT
