• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:21
CEST 14:21
KST 21:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !7Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Tulbo's ASL S21 Ro8 Post-Review Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps?
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Path of Exile OutLive 25 (RTS Game)
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1203 users

Community Feedback Update - October 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
98 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-15 07:50:19
October 14 2016 17:19 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Source


Tempest Ability Removal + New Ability Add

For the Tempest ability, we agree that the current state isn’t working out. In response, our process is to first identify the issue (which we believe our community has done well), and then to make changes accordingly. In this case, the current ability was functioning more as worker line harassment, but that wasn't the intention, and we agree with your points that Protoss already has enough worker harass options. With that in mind, we’ve been testing a few different abilities instead of the current one. This ability is the one that we’re leaning towards: Tempest targets ground, has a 5 second cast time, and then blasts the target location with electricity, stunning enemy ground units in the target area for 10 seconds (these numbers are obviously subject to change). Enemy will be able to see where the Tempest has targeted when the cast starts, and will also hear an under attack warning.

This change should keep Tempests focused on the front lines rather than on harassment. In combat, we are thinking something like this is more interesting because the correct response for both players will vary in different engagements. An ability like this will be stronger against units like Siege Tanks or Lurkers, which is what we need to target more so than the mobile units or worker lines. We’re hoping to start testing this right away, so we’ll get the changes out as soon as possible if you agree with this direction.


Tuning Changes

We’ve also been testing other changes, but for now we’d like to focus on the changes that we can begin testing out as early as next week.

First, we’d like to test a slightly slower attack speed for the Siege Tank. We agree with everyone in that the damage is quite powerful right now, and we suspect it’s better to adjust the attack speed here rather than nerfing the damage. We’re thinking something like 2.8 to 3.

Second is a slight damage nerf to the Swarm Host. We agree that the buff has been too much in the current pass, and lowering the cost barrier was a good change. However, the effectiveness especially after we upped the swoop range seems too high right now.

For both of these changes, we will be moving in small steps so that we can make sure both of units are in a much more powerful state than in the live game.


Cyclone

We’re seeing a lot of discussion regarding how the Cyclone currently in the live game (on ladder) is turning out much better than before, and players are figuring out cool ways to micro them and they’re seeing more usage than they previously have. Unsurprisingly, this has led to feedback indicating that we should just revert the cyclone back to live, and instead discuss numbers buffs to the unit. This is definitely a possibility, but we do see the pros and cons of the live Cyclone vs. the Cyclone being tested. Therefore, we’d like to ask you to focus your discussions around which Cyclone would be the best for the game especially when considering all the other changes with this major patch.

This is an important topic at the moment, so let’s get constructive discussions going so that we can decide the best direction going forward.


Discussions Within the Community

We’d like to encourage everyone to try your best at working towards having productive discussions. Being negative towards something you don’t like is fine, but contributing no ideas and just being negative for the sake of being negative isn’t helpful. We’re definitely seeing good conversations, but also some of the less useful conversations as well.

Another thing we’d like to mention is that we totally agree with the feedback that we should be making tuning changes more often towards these last couple months of testing, so we’ll aim for patching at least once per 2 weeks at the latest.

We’d like to remind everyone is that working on in progress changes is difficult, but continuing to work at it together with the goal of making the game better will feel extremely rewarding once we get there. Let’s always keep this goal in mind when we get frustrated with some of the details and we already know the huge upside of the heavy community collaboration we’ve been working at for the past 1-2 years, so let’s just keep focused and work at it as one team!


Edit: I'm adding a poll to focus the discussion and make the feedback clearer for Blizzard. Remember the numbers can still be adjusted, this is about design.

Poll: Which Cyclone design is better?

New Cyclone (test map). (86)
 
65%

Old Cyclone (current live version). (46)
 
35%

132 total votes

Your vote: Which Cyclone design is better?

(Vote): New Cyclone (test map).
(Vote): Old Cyclone (current live version).



Facebook Twitter Reddit
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
October 14 2016 17:24 GMT
#2
I love the Tempest ability change, not sure about the rest, haven't been playing enough of the test map tbh.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55572 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-14 17:34:02
October 14 2016 17:25 GMT
#3
I really don't want them to revert the cyclone. The live one just isn't a nice unit to play with, or against for that matter (just ask the poor Protoss players who get cheesed out now more than ever). The newer one can still be fine tuned later if it's too strong or weak. The one we have now will always be one or the other (or rather it will always have a strange role) because its entire strength is the lock-on.

I like the tempest change but 10 seconds seems kinda long. If this ever hits units that need to be microed in a fight you just outright lose if you can't do anything for 10 seconds. Although I guess the long activation time makes up for it.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 14 2016 17:29 GMT
#4
So the new Tempest ability provides area control, and pushing power. With a 5 second cast time it will probably only seldom hit anything but it doesn't really need to.
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
October 14 2016 17:52 GMT
#5
Does the Tempest stun ability just immobilises the units or also prevents them from attacking?
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
October 14 2016 17:53 GMT
#6
Cant believe they want us TO DISCUSS THE LIVE CYCLONE VS THE PTR CYCLONE.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
October 14 2016 17:58 GMT
#7
So Tempest get a stun storm instead of a psistorm...

Honestly I don't think the Tempest needs any ability. Keep the nerfed ground range and leave it. Anything else and we're just going to see mass tempest late game against since its objectively better than the carrier.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-14 18:03:27
October 14 2016 18:02 GMT
#8
On October 15 2016 02:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So Tempest get a stun storm instead of a psistorm...

Honestly I don't think the Tempest needs any ability. Keep the nerfed ground range and leave it. Anything else and we're just going to see mass tempest late game against since its objectively better than the carrier.


The existence of turtle mech disagrees. Protoss needs some sort of anti-turtle tool, and while the tempest isn't an elegant solution, it is a solution.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5219 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-14 18:11:28
October 14 2016 18:03 GMT
#9
On October 15 2016 02:19 Blizzard wrote:

For the Tempest ability, we agree that the current state isn’t working out. In response, our process is to first identify the issue (which we believe our community has done well),


The community has done well?

Starcraft 2 would probably be on top of the world if the customers weren't solely responsible for identifying issues. The design team should be at the helm and leading. Blizzard should be explaining to us why the Tempest should have X ability, how it makes the game better, but they can't (actually, I'd still like an explanation of why the Tempest needs to exist, since it overlaps so much with the Carrier). Just like how they thought the original Swarm Host was going to be this sick mid game units that would allow Zerg to end the game if they got way ahead. How did that work out?

That isn't to say the community shouldn't have a say, but Blizzard's approach of throwing out random units and ideas and then backing off when/if there is a community outcry is an awful approach. And yet we continue to do that.

How much money in development costs were sunk into the Warhound? How much beta time was used to test that ridiculously bad idea?

People at Blizzard need to be held accountable for the terrible ideas that are ruining this game. And that is a productive discussion that needs to be had.
Fran_
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1024 Posts
October 14 2016 18:05 GMT
#10
This is a very constructive update.
hellokitty[hk]
Profile Joined June 2009
United States1309 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-14 18:23:10
October 14 2016 18:22 GMT
#11
How is this not a good harass spell?
People are imbeciles, lucky thing god made cats.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24238 Posts
October 14 2016 18:25 GMT
#12
An update I can get behind. Good.
WeddingEpisode
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States356 Posts
October 14 2016 18:26 GMT
#13
Very few people want proposed new Cyclone.
Still diamond
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
October 14 2016 18:26 GMT
#14
I like the tank changes BECAUSE I DEMANDED THEM SINCE WOL!
I dont know what is more frustrating: Not getting the changes for so long or finally getting them after all this time. I always said: Make the tank stronger but lower the attack rate but people kept calling that a bad idea for some reason. Now they do it and suddenly people seem to like the idea...
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
October 14 2016 18:28 GMT
#15
Tankivac : 2 ROF, 50 damage => 25 DPS
Test map tank : 2,8 or 3 ROF, 70 damage => 25 DPS or 23,3 DPS

What's even the point David? So we'll have a tank that has no tankivac to reposition, that deals less DPS with more lost damage per shot, what is the fucking point?
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
October 14 2016 18:30 GMT
#16
Yeah...pretty much everyone identified from the very beginning that the tempest spell would be ridiculous and/or op from the beginning.

But other than that, I like the idea for the Tempest. Regardless of whether you can kill the units stunned or not, this will be a nice counter to the siege style of both mech and lurkers.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
October 14 2016 18:33 GMT
#17
What kind of a sorry excuse for a game design team is this?

It seems to me like they're not even thinking things through anymore, just trying random shit and letting the community decide if they like it or not. Except the problem is that the squeakiest wheel gets the oil and in this case the loudest trolls get their way with the game.

Community Feedback is one thing, but actively relying on a crowd of gamers to design your game for you is bad and lazy.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3301 Posts
October 14 2016 18:40 GMT
#18
Thank you for not lowering the siege tank damage. Tuning the attack rate is the far better choice.
T P Z sagi
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 14 2016 18:46 GMT
#19
On October 15 2016 03:28 JackONeill wrote:
Tankivac : 2 ROF, 50 damage => 25 DPS
Test map tank : 2,8 or 3 ROF, 70 damage => 25 DPS or 23,3 DPS

What's even the point David? So we'll have a tank that has no tankivac to reposition, that deals less DPS with more lost damage per shot, what is the fucking point?


Blizzard time vs actual time dude. 2 is the equivalent of 2.8.

So live DPS vs armored is 25, current test map DPS vs armored 35, and they're considering reducing it to 32.7.
petro1987
Profile Joined May 2009
Brazil374 Posts
October 14 2016 18:49 GMT
#20
I actually think this is the best community update in a long while.

The tempest ability was a long duration weaker psistorm and it would be a nightmare to balance. In the current form, it's very very strong. The new ability seems to have a more defined purpose and also offers a better counterplay.

About the cyclone, I think people just rather have a stronger AA in factory. That's why some people are advocating in reverting the design to the current live version. I'm almost indifferent to the ground attack (between the test map and live version), but I like the live version AA much more. My suggestion is either revert the design and keep the being reactorable buff, along with a minor hp buff, like +20, or keep the test map design, but lower the ground DPS, but buff the AA DPS.

About the swarmhost, as DK stated, definitely deserves a nerf. The dmg is too high for the price.
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
Wardi Spring Cup
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
WardiTV425
LiquipediaDiscussion
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 5: Group C
SHIN vs ByuNLIVE!
Shameless vs TBD
Tasteless1178
IntoTheiNu 767
Ryung 385
Rex118
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Sea Duckling Open #145
CranKy Ducklings45
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 1178
Ryung 385
Lowko297
Rex 118
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 47624
Sea 14915
Calm 8581
Horang2 1461
BeSt 535
Mini 502
EffOrt 471
firebathero 418
Soulkey 261
Zeus 222
[ Show more ]
Sharp 199
Last 187
PianO 117
Mind 102
ToSsGirL 99
HiyA 92
Pusan 84
ggaemo 82
Backho 59
Hyun 42
Aegong 38
Noble 30
Shinee 24
hero 23
sorry 21
Sacsri 16
yabsab 15
GoRush 14
scan(afreeca) 9
Rock 9
JulyZerg 7
Dota 2
Gorgc1798
XcaliburYe467
BananaSlamJamma91
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
fl0m2782
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor126
MindelVK9
Other Games
gofns12825
singsing2545
B2W.Neo557
DeMusliM267
monkeys_forever136
Mew2King94
Livibee93
ArmadaUGS24
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL29032
Other Games
gamesdonequick1086
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 544
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 10
• Dystopia_ 3
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2915
• Jankos1238
Upcoming Events
SC Evo League
39m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2h 39m
BSL
6h 39m
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
11h 39m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
21h 39m
RSL Revival
21h 39m
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
22h 39m
BSL
1d 6h
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
1d 19h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 21h
Soma vs Leta
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
1d 23h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W6
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.