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Community Feedback Update - October 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
98 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-15 07:50:19
October 14 2016 17:19 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Source


Tempest Ability Removal + New Ability Add

For the Tempest ability, we agree that the current state isn’t working out. In response, our process is to first identify the issue (which we believe our community has done well), and then to make changes accordingly. In this case, the current ability was functioning more as worker line harassment, but that wasn't the intention, and we agree with your points that Protoss already has enough worker harass options. With that in mind, we’ve been testing a few different abilities instead of the current one. This ability is the one that we’re leaning towards: Tempest targets ground, has a 5 second cast time, and then blasts the target location with electricity, stunning enemy ground units in the target area for 10 seconds (these numbers are obviously subject to change). Enemy will be able to see where the Tempest has targeted when the cast starts, and will also hear an under attack warning.

This change should keep Tempests focused on the front lines rather than on harassment. In combat, we are thinking something like this is more interesting because the correct response for both players will vary in different engagements. An ability like this will be stronger against units like Siege Tanks or Lurkers, which is what we need to target more so than the mobile units or worker lines. We’re hoping to start testing this right away, so we’ll get the changes out as soon as possible if you agree with this direction.


Tuning Changes

We’ve also been testing other changes, but for now we’d like to focus on the changes that we can begin testing out as early as next week.

First, we’d like to test a slightly slower attack speed for the Siege Tank. We agree with everyone in that the damage is quite powerful right now, and we suspect it’s better to adjust the attack speed here rather than nerfing the damage. We’re thinking something like 2.8 to 3.

Second is a slight damage nerf to the Swarm Host. We agree that the buff has been too much in the current pass, and lowering the cost barrier was a good change. However, the effectiveness especially after we upped the swoop range seems too high right now.

For both of these changes, we will be moving in small steps so that we can make sure both of units are in a much more powerful state than in the live game.


Cyclone

We’re seeing a lot of discussion regarding how the Cyclone currently in the live game (on ladder) is turning out much better than before, and players are figuring out cool ways to micro them and they’re seeing more usage than they previously have. Unsurprisingly, this has led to feedback indicating that we should just revert the cyclone back to live, and instead discuss numbers buffs to the unit. This is definitely a possibility, but we do see the pros and cons of the live Cyclone vs. the Cyclone being tested. Therefore, we’d like to ask you to focus your discussions around which Cyclone would be the best for the game especially when considering all the other changes with this major patch.

This is an important topic at the moment, so let’s get constructive discussions going so that we can decide the best direction going forward.


Discussions Within the Community

We’d like to encourage everyone to try your best at working towards having productive discussions. Being negative towards something you don’t like is fine, but contributing no ideas and just being negative for the sake of being negative isn’t helpful. We’re definitely seeing good conversations, but also some of the less useful conversations as well.

Another thing we’d like to mention is that we totally agree with the feedback that we should be making tuning changes more often towards these last couple months of testing, so we’ll aim for patching at least once per 2 weeks at the latest.

We’d like to remind everyone is that working on in progress changes is difficult, but continuing to work at it together with the goal of making the game better will feel extremely rewarding once we get there. Let’s always keep this goal in mind when we get frustrated with some of the details and we already know the huge upside of the heavy community collaboration we’ve been working at for the past 1-2 years, so let’s just keep focused and work at it as one team!


Edit: I'm adding a poll to focus the discussion and make the feedback clearer for Blizzard. Remember the numbers can still be adjusted, this is about design.

Poll: Which Cyclone design is better?

New Cyclone (test map). (86)
 
65%

Old Cyclone (current live version). (46)
 
35%

132 total votes

Your vote: Which Cyclone design is better?

(Vote): New Cyclone (test map).
(Vote): Old Cyclone (current live version).



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Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
October 14 2016 17:24 GMT
#2
I love the Tempest ability change, not sure about the rest, haven't been playing enough of the test map tbh.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-14 17:34:02
October 14 2016 17:25 GMT
#3
I really don't want them to revert the cyclone. The live one just isn't a nice unit to play with, or against for that matter (just ask the poor Protoss players who get cheesed out now more than ever). The newer one can still be fine tuned later if it's too strong or weak. The one we have now will always be one or the other (or rather it will always have a strange role) because its entire strength is the lock-on.

I like the tempest change but 10 seconds seems kinda long. If this ever hits units that need to be microed in a fight you just outright lose if you can't do anything for 10 seconds. Although I guess the long activation time makes up for it.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 14 2016 17:29 GMT
#4
So the new Tempest ability provides area control, and pushing power. With a 5 second cast time it will probably only seldom hit anything but it doesn't really need to.
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
October 14 2016 17:52 GMT
#5
Does the Tempest stun ability just immobilises the units or also prevents them from attacking?
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
October 14 2016 17:53 GMT
#6
Cant believe they want us TO DISCUSS THE LIVE CYCLONE VS THE PTR CYCLONE.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
October 14 2016 17:58 GMT
#7
So Tempest get a stun storm instead of a psistorm...

Honestly I don't think the Tempest needs any ability. Keep the nerfed ground range and leave it. Anything else and we're just going to see mass tempest late game against since its objectively better than the carrier.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-14 18:03:27
October 14 2016 18:02 GMT
#8
On October 15 2016 02:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So Tempest get a stun storm instead of a psistorm...

Honestly I don't think the Tempest needs any ability. Keep the nerfed ground range and leave it. Anything else and we're just going to see mass tempest late game against since its objectively better than the carrier.


The existence of turtle mech disagrees. Protoss needs some sort of anti-turtle tool, and while the tempest isn't an elegant solution, it is a solution.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5218 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-14 18:11:28
October 14 2016 18:03 GMT
#9
On October 15 2016 02:19 Blizzard wrote:

For the Tempest ability, we agree that the current state isn’t working out. In response, our process is to first identify the issue (which we believe our community has done well),


The community has done well?

Starcraft 2 would probably be on top of the world if the customers weren't solely responsible for identifying issues. The design team should be at the helm and leading. Blizzard should be explaining to us why the Tempest should have X ability, how it makes the game better, but they can't (actually, I'd still like an explanation of why the Tempest needs to exist, since it overlaps so much with the Carrier). Just like how they thought the original Swarm Host was going to be this sick mid game units that would allow Zerg to end the game if they got way ahead. How did that work out?

That isn't to say the community shouldn't have a say, but Blizzard's approach of throwing out random units and ideas and then backing off when/if there is a community outcry is an awful approach. And yet we continue to do that.

How much money in development costs were sunk into the Warhound? How much beta time was used to test that ridiculously bad idea?

People at Blizzard need to be held accountable for the terrible ideas that are ruining this game. And that is a productive discussion that needs to be had.
Fran_
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1024 Posts
October 14 2016 18:05 GMT
#10
This is a very constructive update.
hellokitty[hk]
Profile Joined June 2009
United States1309 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-14 18:23:10
October 14 2016 18:22 GMT
#11
How is this not a good harass spell?
People are imbeciles, lucky thing god made cats.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24237 Posts
October 14 2016 18:25 GMT
#12
An update I can get behind. Good.
WeddingEpisode
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States356 Posts
October 14 2016 18:26 GMT
#13
Very few people want proposed new Cyclone.
Still diamond
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
October 14 2016 18:26 GMT
#14
I like the tank changes BECAUSE I DEMANDED THEM SINCE WOL!
I dont know what is more frustrating: Not getting the changes for so long or finally getting them after all this time. I always said: Make the tank stronger but lower the attack rate but people kept calling that a bad idea for some reason. Now they do it and suddenly people seem to like the idea...
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
October 14 2016 18:28 GMT
#15
Tankivac : 2 ROF, 50 damage => 25 DPS
Test map tank : 2,8 or 3 ROF, 70 damage => 25 DPS or 23,3 DPS

What's even the point David? So we'll have a tank that has no tankivac to reposition, that deals less DPS with more lost damage per shot, what is the fucking point?
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
October 14 2016 18:30 GMT
#16
Yeah...pretty much everyone identified from the very beginning that the tempest spell would be ridiculous and/or op from the beginning.

But other than that, I like the idea for the Tempest. Regardless of whether you can kill the units stunned or not, this will be a nice counter to the siege style of both mech and lurkers.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
October 14 2016 18:33 GMT
#17
What kind of a sorry excuse for a game design team is this?

It seems to me like they're not even thinking things through anymore, just trying random shit and letting the community decide if they like it or not. Except the problem is that the squeakiest wheel gets the oil and in this case the loudest trolls get their way with the game.

Community Feedback is one thing, but actively relying on a crowd of gamers to design your game for you is bad and lazy.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3301 Posts
October 14 2016 18:40 GMT
#18
Thank you for not lowering the siege tank damage. Tuning the attack rate is the far better choice.
T P Z sagi
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 14 2016 18:46 GMT
#19
On October 15 2016 03:28 JackONeill wrote:
Tankivac : 2 ROF, 50 damage => 25 DPS
Test map tank : 2,8 or 3 ROF, 70 damage => 25 DPS or 23,3 DPS

What's even the point David? So we'll have a tank that has no tankivac to reposition, that deals less DPS with more lost damage per shot, what is the fucking point?


Blizzard time vs actual time dude. 2 is the equivalent of 2.8.

So live DPS vs armored is 25, current test map DPS vs armored 35, and they're considering reducing it to 32.7.
petro1987
Profile Joined May 2009
Brazil374 Posts
October 14 2016 18:49 GMT
#20
I actually think this is the best community update in a long while.

The tempest ability was a long duration weaker psistorm and it would be a nightmare to balance. In the current form, it's very very strong. The new ability seems to have a more defined purpose and also offers a better counterplay.

About the cyclone, I think people just rather have a stronger AA in factory. That's why some people are advocating in reverting the design to the current live version. I'm almost indifferent to the ground attack (between the test map and live version), but I like the live version AA much more. My suggestion is either revert the design and keep the being reactorable buff, along with a minor hp buff, like +20, or keep the test map design, but lower the ground DPS, but buff the AA DPS.

About the swarmhost, as DK stated, definitely deserves a nerf. The dmg is too high for the price.
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