EPT#removeswarmhost,liberator,tempest.
David Kim interview @ DH Montreal: What's the end game for…
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
#removeswarmhost,liberator,tempest. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
United States257 Posts
The game is already complex, its already well-designed at its core, they just need to stop going for all this overkill bs. | ||
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On August 20 2016 08:52 seemsgood wrote: If i remember correctly blizzard did say they might remove some units and add new units(can't find source ).Not just adding new units and got overlapped. #removeswarmhost,liberator,tempest. Lurkers/infestors/broodlords will be imbalanced without tempests. Void rays aren't good. Carriers take too long to build. | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
On August 20 2016 13:09 My_Fake_Plastic_Luv wrote: They really need to simplify the game. Removed some of the active abilities and gimmicky things that kill you in less than a second. Let the complexity and mastery come out of how the players engage and pull apart their opponents, not how well they defend adept shades or shoot disrupter balls or pick up and drop tanks or micro a warp prism. Open up the maps, slow down the game a bit, decrease backstabbing, increase defenders advantage, let the skills be based on map control and positioning rather than a player's ability to dodge things. The game is already complex, its already well-designed at its core, they just need to stop going for all this overkill bs. I agree with this very much. RTS shouldn't need to be so dominated by spells / extras on every single unit you might have in the army composition. | ||
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Kerence
Sweden1817 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On August 20 2016 21:43 BaneRiders wrote: I agree with this very much. RTS shouldn't need to be so dominated by spells / extras on every single unit you might have in the army composition. And this is what Blizzard keeps doing for protoss. It's so annoying. | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
On August 20 2016 23:29 goswser wrote: Just watched Bisu play a 30-40 minute PvZ on his stream. The only active unit ability he used in the entire game was psi storm. All of the micro was done controlling his archons, shuttles, reavers, dragoons, zealots, observers, etc. Obviously in a lot of brood war games there are more abilities to cast, for instance in a PvT the terran will be sieging/unsieging, laying spider mines with vultures, and using science vessels, for example, but the amount of units with abiltiies you have to activate in fights is far greater in sc2 than in brood war. Because they let the early player base scream about the need for "cool micro like in BW!" Thing is the BW micro is player created and SC2 could have the same thing if they just made quality dynamic units and then let the players create the micro. See that's what Blizzard doesn't get right now. You shouldn't try to force cool play or micro and you can't get that by just adding a million abilities. What Blizzard hopes people watching SC2 will say is "wow that player can use so many abilities I can't do that!" Instead of just letting the spectator organically appreciate what the player is doing(positioning, pulling units back, flanking). What the side effect has been of so many abilities is that it has simply frustrated the casual player. Back in BW you wanted to just mass dragoons or hydras have at it, you'll win some BGH games. Will you go pro? Of course not but it offered a fun and easy way to enjoy the game. You can't do that in SC2. Hell even just making gateway units is an absolutely confusing situation. Explain to a new player, "see you first make units like Terran but that's not good you have to get this upgrade then you can warp in units anywhere but sometimes it will be faster and sometimes it will be slower and to be faster the pylon must touch a warpgate or the nexus if not the warp in time is longer or you can make a warp prism which is good too but if it dies you need to probably pull back." Umm... Yeah I'm good I'll go play LoL. We don't even know what cool things people could do with the units in SC2. The game could have neat unit interactions like BW but everyone is too busy trying to use all these abilities to make the game seem harder. Artificially hard. The reality is the skill ceiling of any RTS is infinite. You'll never macro or micro perfectly, we know that because we've seen those Bot programs do splits and micro a player could never do but it's possible. I bet if they made the game simpler, made the units serve real purpose, reduced the extreme hard counters, you'd see a really beautiful game at the highest level and at the lower levels people could enjoy the game much more. Start by getting rid of warpgate and buffing gateway units. That alone would make this game so much better. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Yes, that's how SC2 should be designed. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On August 21 2016 00:32 RKC wrote: Less is more. Complexity in simplicity. Yes, that's how SC2 should be designed. Agreed, but I doubt Blizzard will do it. They're too stubborn. Maybe this is what Koreans are telling Blizzard by saying the game is too hard. | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
On August 21 2016 01:24 Shield wrote: Agreed, but I doubt Blizzard will do it. They're too stubborn. Maybe this is what Koreans are telling Blizzard by saying the game is too hard. They do, Canata did so explicitly | ||
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
Ahhhh that was my first thread. BTW, according to JYP, he said everything which Koreans concern at the summit; most of`em are ignored tho. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
And I think for active abilities, I don't think it's right to say just because there’s an active ability it makes the game harder. For example, it really depends on the active ability. For example, the Disruptor shot is very hard to master versus Void Ray attack. Anyone can do it. A bronze-silver level player, I think their favorite unit, especially in team games, through what we see in stats, is the Void Ray. It’s definitely not hard to use, because all you do is: engagement started, press one button, everything powers up, and I can kill everything. So it really depends. No, it's a cumulative effect when many active abilities from many kinds of units lower the effective micro possible. Hold off on army positioning, just amove I got two spellcaster groups to micro and a third group of specialty units to protect! His answer is a dodge by deflecting to single units and how the complaint doesn't apply to every active ability. In pursuit of more exciting spectator games, they've lowered the more RTS-flavored feel of bulk army management (for the Kim proteges, lowered not completely removed is the intent here). You're not the battlefield commander of an army, but a personnel manager of the 10% Marvel superheroes in the army. | ||
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
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rrrzzz
48 Posts
On August 20 2016 13:09 My_Fake_Plastic_Luv wrote: They really need to simplify the game. Removed some of the active abilities and gimmicky things that kill you in less than a second. Let the complexity and mastery come out of how the players engage and pull apart their opponents, not how well they defend adept shades or shoot disrupter balls or pick up and drop tanks or micro a warp prism. Open up the maps, slow down the game a bit, decrease backstabbing, increase defenders advantage, let the skills be based on map control and positioning rather than a player's ability to dodge things. The game is already complex, its already well-designed at its core, they just need to stop going for all this overkill bs. Agree 100% | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
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Fran_
United States1024 Posts
On August 19 2016 07:14 realityyy wrote: The reason why I lost interest in SC2 after LotV is because you can get punished so bad with a single mistake, that you just cannot come back. You can lose the game in a matter of seconds, when you miss a single thing on the minimap. That is just not appealing, cause on some games you get the feeling you lost undeservingly. For me, the game would be way more enjoyable, if you win by getting a lot of small victories. Imo, they should not have introduce units that have a very strong focus on harassement like the oracle, early adepts, reapers, speedivacs even widow mines when combined with medivacs. All those force you to go off a standard build, instead of having units ready to fend it off. in WoL, you could harass, but the units werent especially designed to harass. This is also the incredible beauty of the most difficult game to master. | ||
Waxangel
United States33668 Posts
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