David Kim interview @ DH Montreal: What's the end game for…

On August 19 2016 06:01 Barrin wrote:
Running out of ways to improve SC2... it's never been better!

And I feel that's the difference between SC2 and BW. SC2 has too many balls, BW has less. SC2 games end fast and anti-climatically because it forces so many required actions on the players, hence likely for a player to drop a ball within the first minute. But BW can go on and on, back and forth, because the game takes on more depth as it stretches on.

On August 19 2016 08:29 sc2chronic wrote:


Exactly how I feel. Just because ur passionate about something doesn't make you good at it. He's a typical CEO type who thinks he knows what's best and does something just to exercise his power. 4 teenagers balancing StarBow blows his idea of a competent design team out of the water.

Reminds me of the classic Skinner mindset:
+ Show Spoiler +

But what can we do? We are all consumers of his product and in the end he gets the last word. Lucky kid.

On August 19 2016 14:39 BronzeKnee wrote:


I find it odd that you think the game has never been better but it has a smaller player base, smaller prize pools and less tournaments than in WOL...

The very definition of the word better contradicts what you say.

David Kim: What’s funny is that it’s not just the Korean community that says that, it’s also the pro players. When we meet with KeSPA—for example, our producer just went to Korea to meet with KeSPA around last week. I wanted to go also, but I had this event so I couldn't. One of the main feedback there from the KeSPA coaches was that the game is too hard [for pros].

We thought that was very interesting, because that’s not what the WCS pros say, right? Because they say the game should be HARDER so that no one can master it, in which case I think we're in a pretty good state there, but… ...I think the main goal for us is to have that game that is the most impossible to master in the world in StarCraft 2, because that’s what we’ve been working toward. And obviously there will be people who think, "I spent this much time as a pro player, maybe I should have perfectly mastered it." But the fact that they haven’t I think is kind of a cool factor. At the same time we don’t want to make it more difficult.

On August 19 2016 17:48 LaLuSh wrote:


This sentiment from koreans gets brought up from time to time. I think their perception of "hardness" does not necessarily directly have to relate to mechanics.

A game can also be perceived as hard because your attention is constantly interrupted by harassment. A game can feel very hard because the control and attention required to differentiate yourself from another player is super intense. A game can be perceived as hard because you need to respond in fractions of a second to every threat, lest you lose the game immediately.

Usually I argue for the notion that macromanagement should made "harder" or rather a more prevalent aspect of Starcraft 2. I'm not sure whether David Kim views that position as equal to "wanting to make the game harder", but I suspect he does.

But I do not think it's as simple as saying "more macro" = "harder game".

The perceived difficulty for professionals in a more macro focused game may be less than in an micro-intense game. I've always felt that macro focused gameplay has a bit more of a "preparatory" aspect attached to it. You can prepare and train the macro aspect -- because there is not as much interaction involved in macro. You cannot to as large of a degree "automate" the process for how you're gonna respond to high intensity micro situations.

So I'd wish David Kim and that producer would try to clarify exactly what those koreans perceive makes the game "feel" hard. Personally I do not think it's as easy as "less macro" = "easier game".

I think that's looking at the issue in a shallow way. LotV is much more micro intense than previous iterations of the game. But micro intense action is very very disruptive to one's attention and very difficult to rote memorize, in contrast to macro play. That may be perceived as "hard" in comparison to something which can be trained and memorized.

I read an interesting post by an Overwatch designer where he talked about the "perception" of balance. This might just be me reading between the lines, but do you feel like you're forced to manage the community's perception of balance versus what the stats are telling you?

On August 19 2016 14:39 BronzeKnee wrote:


I find it odd that you think the game has never been better but it has a smaller player base, smaller prize pools and less tournaments than in WOL...

The very definition of the word better contradicts what you say.

On August 19 2016 14:39 BronzeKnee wrote:


I find it odd that you think the game has never been better but it has a smaller player base, smaller prize pools and less tournaments than in WOL...

The very definition of the word better contradicts what you say.