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France12888 Posts
I feel less bad for losing to him in a WoL clanwar after seeing his success in both HotS and LotV (he had a good resurgence during/after Nation Wars no matter what some people seem to think on this thread :o).
I'm also glad he didn't waste too much time practicing for a match against a match fixer, being 3-0ed out of a tournament by a -albeit top performer- cheater isn't a worse offense for this game than what his tormentor did. His emotional response to this match, even if it wasn't very classy, shows that he actually cared.
Thank you for what you brought to France and other foreign countries in Starcraft 2, and for all the training you put in order to achieve that, and for showing us exciting, agressive and intense games, be it in losing or winning.
Hopefully you'll find success in Overwatch even though it's a team FPS game.
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I always tell my friends to visit TL because people here are more grown up than in many other forums. This is a poor example though and I really think people should calm down and rather say nothing than posting insults and the same "jokes" over and over again.
I don't follow the scene as much as I did a few years ago and I didn't catch 100% of the drama, but I remember times where the whole community was excited when foreigners showed good results and tried to compete at the top. Despite not agreeing with every decision made we could still respect people who made it far. You have to give up a lot to make it to this point and switching can only make things better for him now I guess.
GL HF in Overwatch
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On July 06 2016 02:07 Shield wrote:
Brain alert, I'm not a fanboy of Lilbow at all. I barely know him how he plays. It's the attitude of Blizzard which I criticise.
Look, maybe blizzard had bad moves. I admit that. But you can't blame Blizzard, because someone couldn't deliver good results, while others could.
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I wouldn't say that Lilbow has a chance to reach top world level in Overwatch but what's make the big difference between a random player and these guy is that they can try hard as hell. They can focus 12hours a day and practice effectively for hours and i have no doubt that he'll reach a very good level (ie Mlord who is a heartstone legend player , top euro sc2 player and has a veeeeery decent CS:GO level )
Plus he'll be surrounded by pro players which is a big advantage.
I can understand lilbow's decision as Sc2 community is decreasing quickly and if you want to make a correct living out of it you have to be part of the top 10 euro players and the game has become way too competitve.
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Blows my mind how this "new" generation of gamers jumps onto the hype train of Overwatch. It's like UT or Quake III Arena had sex with LoL or DotA and everybody's like "CRAZY, this is the next level shit" when it's just another arena shooter lmao.
Better for Lilbow to switch the game, there's nothing left here but burned soil - Although I fear he will eventually fuck up there, as well, he's got an attitude problem.
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On July 06 2016 20:26 Creager wrote:
Blows my mind how this "new" generation of gamers jumps onto the hype train of Overwatch. It's like UT or Quake III Arena had sex with LoL or DotA and everybody's like "CRAZY, this is the next level shit" when it's just another arena shooter lmao.
Before you get any more edgy, have you played it?
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On July 07 2016 02:09 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 20:26 Creager wrote:
Blows my mind how this "new" generation of gamers jumps onto the hype train of Overwatch. It's like UT or Quake III Arena had sex with LoL or DotA and everybody's like "CRAZY, this is the next level shit" when it's just another arena shooter lmao. Before you get any more edgy, have you played it?
Yes, I've tried it during the open beta weekend before launch, that's not much I admit, but from what I experienced it's nothing special, certainly a well-made shooter, but not groundbreaking as many people apparently think it is. Probably also factors in that it doesn't appeal as well to my age group (around 30) as it's getting pretty hard to find a group of people to play on a regular basis. Solo queueing wasn't much fun for me, all this eye candy and constant achievement bling-bling wasn't fun, all felt pretty "meaningless" (I know, weird term to use for a game).
TL;DR I'm just devolving into a grumpy old man, I guess.
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On July 07 2016 04:01 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 02:09 NewSunshine wrote:On July 06 2016 20:26 Creager wrote:
Blows my mind how this "new" generation of gamers jumps onto the hype train of Overwatch. It's like UT or Quake III Arena had sex with LoL or DotA and everybody's like "CRAZY, this is the next level shit" when it's just another arena shooter lmao. Before you get any more edgy, have you played it? Yes, I've tried it during the open beta weekend before launch, that's not much I admit, but from what I experienced it's nothing special, certainly a well-made shooter, but not groundbreaking as many people apparently think it is. Probably also factors in that it doesn't appeal as well to my age group (around 30) as it's getting pretty hard to find a group of people to play on a regular basis. Solo queueing wasn't much fun for me, all this eye candy and constant achievement bling-bling wasn't fun, all felt pretty "meaningless" (I know, weird term to use for a game). TL;DR I'm just devolving into a grumpy old man, I guess.
I'm not saying you have to like it, but the game has more polish than any game I've ever played, and people are responding to it. I know you say it doesn't really break new ground, but it really does take a fresh approach that most shooters don't. When you think of a FPS, you think of assault rifles and grenade launchers, but with characters like Reinhardt, Hanzo and Winston, that clearly break away from the idea that guns are a given, it has fresh new ideas that are all executed very well. When you play as Reinhardt you really feel like a giant hammer-swinging shield, there's a great sense of embodiment for whatever character you play. If that's not your thing, that's ok, but people really enjoy that kind of thing.
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This guy has a bad history as of late in SC2 but Starcraft has been bleeding players for a long time now. I just want a new RTS to invigorate the scene.. don't really like MOBA's.
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sc2 is simply behind every other game. money is gone, magic is gone, fans are gone
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On July 11 2016 13:03 BlackGosu wrote:
sc2 is simply behind every other game. money is gone, magic is gone, fans are gone
its still the hardest competitive game and has the best players in the world playing top shit. ill take that over whatever fad comes around.
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On July 06 2016 16:20 Sewi wrote:
I always tell my friends to visit TL because people here are more grown up than in many other forums. This is a poor example though and I really think people should calm down and rather say nothing than posting insults and the same "jokes" over and over again.
I don't follow the scene as much as I did a few years ago and I didn't catch 100% of the drama, but I remember times where the whole community was excited when foreigners showed good results and tried to compete at the top. Despite not agreeing with every decision made we could still respect people who made it far. You have to give up a lot to make it to this point and switching can only make things better for him now I guess.
GL HF in Overwatch
Okay, I respect what you mean here but if you were around a few years ago you KNOW things were exactly the same when people talked about Idra, and then Naniwa after that.
The way people and the community talk about players they don't like the actions of has not changed a bit.
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On July 11 2016 13:19 Hexe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2016 13:03 BlackGosu wrote:
sc2 is simply behind every other game. money is gone, magic is gone, fans are gone its still the hardest competitive game and has the best players in the world playing top shit. ill take that over whatever fad comes around.
thats what we call elitism
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8748 Posts
On July 15 2016 06:36 BlackGosu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2016 13:19 Hexe wrote:On July 11 2016 13:03 BlackGosu wrote:
sc2 is simply behind every other game. money is gone, magic is gone, fans are gone its still the hardest competitive game and has the best players in the world playing top shit. ill take that over whatever fad comes around. thats what we call elitism
literally not what elitism is. definitely not the word you're looking for. or if you're sure it is, then you've learned it from people misusing it too.
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On July 15 2016 07:24 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 06:36 BlackGosu wrote:On July 11 2016 13:19 Hexe wrote:On July 11 2016 13:03 BlackGosu wrote:
sc2 is simply behind every other game. money is gone, magic is gone, fans are gone its still the hardest competitive game and has the best players in the world playing top shit. ill take that over whatever fad comes around. thats what we call elitism literally not what elitism is. definitely not the word you're looking for. or if you're sure it is, then you've learned it from people misusing it too.
I think there's nothing wrong with preferring SC2 to other games because of the skill component, but there is an elitist undertone when you say that other games are, as a result, a fad. A game's level of accessibility is something that should be respected, because it's very important to a game's success. Leveraging accessibility towards a claim that said game is inferior or a "fad" is simply not true. Such a statement simply doesn't mean anything, it doesn't add anything to a real discussion about competitive games and how they succeed.
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8748 Posts
I don't want to just be a stickler and quote a reference text to prove a point, but honestly it'd just be easier to communicate the idea by starting with that. Look how Wikipedia describes elitism:
Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality or worth, high intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes—are those whose influence or authority is greater than that of others; whose views on a matter are to be taken more seriously or carry more weight; whose views or actions are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities, or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.[1]
Alternatively, the term elitism may be used to describe a situation in which power is concentrated in the hands of a limited number of people. Oppositions of elitism include anti-elitism, egalitarianism, populism and political theory of pluralism. Elite theory is the sociological or political science analysis of elite influence in society: elite theorists regard pluralism as a utopian ideal.
Someone expressing the opinion that SC2 players have superior skills/ability or that SC2 fans have superior taste would, first of all, only be claiming that such people are eligible to be the elite. The claim is that they're superior, and we also know that they're the smaller group, but do they actually have more power and influence? If yes, then they're the elite and the scene is affected by elitism. But Hexe admits to the opposite! The SC2 scene is in a weaker spot despite being superior in some ways. The bigger groups dominate. There's no elite using their advantages to leverage the scene for more than their share.
So anyway the exchange went "sc2 is worse in every way" and a guy says "no this is one way that sc2 is still better and it's the reason i watch it." The guy makes a fair point. I mean "sc2 is simply behind every other game" is a really extreme statement that's hard to defend anyway. SC2 is still the best for certain things that other games lack. But then to call Hexe's claim elitism? The concept of elitism doesn't even apply.
I'm still not sure how calling other games fads has anything to do with elitism. Calling a game a fad has nothing to do with having the attributes that set you apart from the masses and into the elite and it has nothing to do with using the attributes that placed you into the elite to gain advantages over everyone else. Whether those games are fads or not, they're more powerful, more influential, more accomplished than SC2 at this point. In fact when I think about it, the existence of fads is a sign that there is no elitism. Unless the elite control which fads are becoming popular, then the existence of fads is a demonstration of the elite's impotence. There are things out of their control that are able to massively influence the people.
Calling those games fads is just an opinion that maybe has some condescension or arrogance behind it. I feel like "elitism" is part of the word cloud that pops up in minds when thinking about these concepts and then it gets misapplied.
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