EPTpotential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that.
edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.
[WCS] Spring Championship 2016 - Preview - Page 3
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
potential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that. edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments. experience matters a lot in those situations snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
They're on opposite sides of the bracket, so that would be rather hard | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On May 13 2016 23:58 Charoisaur wrote: scarlett is pretty much a wildcard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets far in this tournament but she basically has no results in LotV so far so there's no reason to rank her higher. potential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that. edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments. experience matters a lot in those situations snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol. Snute already won a tournament in LotV. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Now i know what to do at least  | ||
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rotta
5589 Posts
Maybe he counts Premiers only? | ||
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Hider
Denmark9391 Posts
edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments. experience matters a lot in those situations snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol. Nerchio was a much worse player in HOTS than in LOTV. People tend to confuse correlation with causation. Hydra winning Austin had nothing to do with mentality and knowing how to win. People who talk like are people who cannot actually analyze games and instead need to spam buzzwords to explain results. inb4 Iaguz 3-0s Scarlett Couldn't care less who wins. What I care about are bad arguments. And in every single way you compare Scarlett to Iaguz, the former comes out as the better player. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On May 14 2016 02:23 Hider wrote: Nerchio was a much worse player in HOTS than in LOTV. People tend to confuse correlation with causation. Hydra winning Austin had nothing to do with mentality and knowing how to win. People who talk like are people who cannot actually analyze games and instead need to spam buzzwords to explain results. Couldn't care less who wins. What I care about are bad arguments. And in every single way you compare Scarlett to Iaguz, the former comes out as the better player. Like it or not but mentality is part of competing and is part of the reason championship calibre players are who they are. Pure skill isn't everything you need to be a tournament winner. So no, people who actually take that into consideration too aren't too dumb to analyze whatever you think is important, there are a lot of factors which play into the "total skill" of a player in any given situation. | ||
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Cluster__
United States328 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24203 Posts
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deus.machinarum
Austria658 Posts
Could not disagree more on Scarlett's placement but that's because I'm a huge fanboy Guess we'll find out demain! | ||
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Hider
Denmark9391 Posts
Like it or not but mentality is part of competing and is part of the reason championship calibre players are who they are. Pure skill isn't everything you need to be a tournament winner. Problem is when you reason tournament wins with better mentality without actually looking and analyzing the games nor basing your assesment from statistical data. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Hydra has any type of "winning mentality" that means we should credit him further than his actual skill level. This is the same type og logic that made an esport-journalist rank Neeb as a tier-2 player below Violet and Harstem at Dreamhack Austin. And it's also the same type of flawed logic that made TL predict Ptitdrogo as the 3rd best player in one of the last tournaments when he clearly wasn't anywhere no there. It's just bad analysis from people confusing correlation with causation. ' Anyway, with regards to Hydra's actual skill level, he is ranked as the best player along with Nerchio according to Aligulac, so there is no problem there. But please stop with the goddamn lazy buzzword-spamming pseudoanalysis. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9391 Posts
Because right the bookmakers imply that Scarlett is favored against Firecake. Yes the rank 27 player is favored against the rank 17 player, so that must be an incredible investment opportunity. And its also worth noting that Huk (rank 25) is perceved as 72-28 favourite against Iaguz (rank 26). So that must also be an opportunity for a great value bet if one really believes those two players are even in skill. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On May 14 2016 05:24 Hider wrote: Problem is when you reason tournament wins with better mentality without actually looking and analyzing the games nor basing your assesment from statistical data. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Hydra has any type of "winning mentality" that means we should credit him further than his actual skill level. This is the same type og logic that made an esport-journalist rank Neeb as a tier-2 player below Violet and Harstem at Dreamhack Austin. And it's also the same type of flawed logic that made TL predict Ptitdrogo as the 3rd best player in one of the last tournaments when he clearly wasn't anywhere no there. It's just bad analysis from people confusing correlation with causation. ' Anyway, with regards to Hydra's actual skill level, he is ranked as the best player along with Nerchio according to Aligulac, so there is no problem there. But please stop with the goddamn lazy buzzword-spamming pseudoanalysis. Well yes i agree that it cannot be the only argument, sure. I just thought you wanna neglect this factor completely, which apparently isn't the case. | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
After all the false predictions, it looks like 2016 might finally be the Year of Harstem™. This sure cracked me up! :D Good writing overall, can't wait for the matches! | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 14 2016 05:36 Hider wrote: If one continues to believe that Scarlett and Iaguz are ranked fairly, then I suggest that one put money on where their mouth is. Because right the bookmakers imply that Scarlett is favored against Firecake. Yes the rank 27 player is favored against the rank 17 player, so that must be an incredible investment opportunity. And its also worth noting that Huk (rank 25) is perceved as 72-28 favourite against Iaguz (rank 26). So that must also be an opportunity for a great value bet if one really believes those two players are even in skill. It's a power rank, not an analysis of their chances in a head to head against any other player, or their chances in the tournament given the bracket. | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
Which one was that? I must have missed it... | ||
munch
Mute City2363 Posts
On May 14 2016 05:36 Hider wrote: If one continues to believe that Scarlett and Iaguz are ranked fairly, then I suggest that one put money on where their mouth is. Because right the bookmakers imply that Scarlett is favored against Firecake. Yes the rank 27 player is favored against the rank 17 player, so that must be an incredible investment opportunity. And its also worth noting that Huk (rank 25) is perceved as 72-28 favourite against Iaguz (rank 26). So that must also be an opportunity for a great value bet if one really believes those two players are even in skill. Arguing that a rank X player should beat a lower ranked player / lose to a higher ranked player is a complete fallacy. Take Drogo for instance, who's had OK PvP and PvZ when I've watched him this year, and garbage PvT since the adept nerf. Clearly just because he's ranked below a couple protoss / zerg doesn't mean he should be expected to lose to them; nor necessarily does it mean that he should be expected to beat lower ranked terrans. As with everything, there has to be compromise. That's not to say I agree with the list; even though I did some of the writing I can't stress enough that it's Soularion's personal list and we've all had plenty of arguments about it prior to posting. Personally I feel that top 5 is mostly correct, even though I'd bump Nerchio to #5, and that there's too little data and too much inconsistency in the scene to be fully confident of anything below that. Sure, you can tier things, but there will always be arguments and counterarguments, especially when there are 10 or so people qualified here yet to attend any meaningful tournaments in LotV. It's all a guessing game really at the low end. Personally, I'm really not arguing either way here; I put no faith in online results at all since I don't watch them. On May 13 2016 22:55 Hider wrote: Sounds like a cool story, but I don't remember that this is actually true. If anything I remember Polt as someone who always shows up at a high consistency. His atrocious performance vs Firecake is not something that I remember having seen before. Also given that Polt has lots the last few series vs Neeb and the last series vs Puck, I don't believe you can justify him at #1. I am not sure I would even have him at top 5. RBNA into MLG is one of the best examples I can think of. 1-6 against Scarlett in one day playing pretty ineffective standard bio vs muta / ling / bane after the mine nerfs; next day mixes it up (albeit playing one incredible standard game iirc). It's the mentality and willingness to change when things are going wrong that I respect | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On May 14 2016 06:13 BaneRiders wrote: Which one was that? I must have missed it... Can't remember the name but it was a chinese one with JD and Lilbow. Plus archon mode stuff. JD/FlaSh archon hype! | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 14 2016 06:23 Phredxor wrote: Can't remember the name but it was a chinese one with JD and Lilbow. Plus archon mode stuff. JD/FlaSh archon hype! This event:  GPL 2015 International Challenge | ||
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