• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:17
CEST 20:17
KST 03:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster11Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation HSC 27 players & groups Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Jumy Talks: Dedication to SC2 in 2025, & more... Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)
Tourneys
$200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series EWC 2025 Online Qualifiers (May 28-June 1, June 21-22) Monday Nights Weeklies
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Preserving Battlereports.com ASL20 Preliminary Maps Where is effort ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - LB Round 4 & 5
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Social coupon sites UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Pro Gamers Cope with Str…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1353 users

[WCS] Spring Championship 2016 - Preview

Forum Index > SC2 General
105 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

[WCS] Spring Championship 2016 - Preview

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byshiroiusagi
May 13th, 2016 02:40 GMT

Attack of the Drones

Power Rank

Brackets and standings on Liquipedia


Season 2: Attack of the Drones



It's only been a couple of months since the WCS Winter Championships, but it's already time for 32 further WCS hopefuls to join up for another crack at the title. $35,000 is up for grabs for the winner, along with a prize that's might be just as valuable to some—a seed to the Global Playoffs this November. So before everything kicks off on Saturday, join us for a breakdown of the contestants. As with last time, this Power Rank was done solely by Soularion, although a couple of us have done some contributory writing, so once more shout at him if you disagree with the rankings.

Power Rank


by Soularion


Complementary writing by munch and banjoetheredskin

32. (Z)JimRising ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: Top 4, NA Server Qualifiers

Coming in dead last is JimRising, a player who qualified with a very easy path—2-1s over MCanning, State, and PandaBearMe, who all rank as low-mid tier NA players—and has neither the results since (eliminated by PiLiPiLi in HSC qualifiers, and failure against Bly and Harstem last week in Austin) nor the home region results (he’s routinely struggled to even be top three) to back him up. There’s practically nothing that gives any hope to JimRising other than CatZ’s recent success against FireCake in Austin, which might inspire him to pick up some cheesy tactics if nothing else.


31. (P)Bails ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: Top 4, NA Server Qualifiers

Bails has forever been one of the mid-tier players in North America, and he's one of quite a few players bubbling under the surface who just hasn’t broken through yet. Recent results (beating KingKong and iAsonu to qualify here, losing 2-3 to puCK in Austin) back him up as someone possible of tossing in an upset, but unlikely to close it out. His in-region results and NA’s historical low position in WCS set him quite low here, and his lack of upset history gives him less power than some of the less certain competitors. Still, he’s far from bad, and with further practice he could join the ranks of NA players pushing for further success.


30. (Z)Cham ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: 1st, Latin America Regional Challenger

Cham’s qualification came as a much bigger surprise than JimRising’s, considering that he 4-3’d Kelazhur in the Copa America finals. It’s a shocking upset, coming alongside a 3-2 against Polt online the week before, but was quickly erased by going 1-4 against the Brazilian terran in qualifiers for DHAustin. Still, he’s had better in-region success than JimRising, and has proven himself possible of getting an upset which Bails hasn’t had in quite some time. His recent performance in the Leifeng Cup, where he beat XY and lost to Jim, might hint at him moving up this list, but it’s really hard to determine considering how little concrete play we’ve seen from Latin America and China.


29. (T)XY ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: 1st, China Regional Challenger

XY quite likely caused the biggest upset to get here, up there with the likes of Cham and puCK. After enjoying years of success as China’s only noteworthy terran, the sudden onslaught of players such as Shana and Coffee started to challenge his throne, and his regional performance dropped. The first GPL season was a disaster, he lost to BreakingGG in the Austin qualifiers, and he even dropped 0-2 to a middle-of-the-pack protoss in Cloudy going into qualifiers here. Then, through the loser bracket, he beat everyone. Jieshi, Chick, BreakingGG, TIME, iAsonu, and then TooDming twice- it was a miracle run in every definition of the word, and it brought XY right up to this tournament. His regional dominance hasn’t been so good other than that single run, which is why he gets placed this low, and he doesn’t have the WCS experience that someone such as iAsonu does. XY’s gotten one miracle, but to come to Tours and find a run would take a second.


28. (P)Jim ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: 5th-6th, NA Server Qualifiers

Jim and XY are largely similar in that they’re Chinese players with good historic results in the region, who have started to struggle in Legacy of the Void. Unlike XY, Jim has significantly better WCS results and a very strong IEM run to his name, alongside a strong sense of cheesing and dirty tricks that he shares with many of his protoss peers. This dirtiness gives him a good advantage going into a single Bo5, but it’s hard to tell whether he has the skill and the experience within the new expansion to really use it.


27. (Z)Scarlett ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: Top 4, NA Server Qualifiers

Scarlett managed to get us all excited for her trip to Korea, but was quickly sent home by a combination of INnoVation, Ryung, Zoun, herO and Bomber. This matches her generally underwhelming performance throughout Legacy of the Void. A win over Elazer at WCS Shanghai was a welcome surprise, but even then, puCK knocked her out and stole the show. Due to her past as a top-tier player it’s hard to say that she’s without potential, but if any other North American player had her results there’d be almost no hype going into Tours for them. If she’ll find success it’ll likely be on the basis of her ZvZ. Considering her bracket, that might make her a bigger threat than this placement dictates.


26. (P)Strange ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: Top 4, EU Server Qualifiers

Strange is, well, strange. He’s actually done quite admirably in Europe’s online scene, beating Bly in a Bo5 before qualifying over solid benchmarks in Dayshi and MaNa. He’s been quite silent since his qualification, which either means that he’s readying some next-level strats or just that he’s preparing extra hard to be the next one-qualifier-wonder. Who knows, really, but any goodwill harvested by his upsets has to be knocked down by lack of experience.


25. (T)iaguz ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: 1st, Oceania / SEA / Japan Regional Qualifiers

iaguz had a good day to qualify for this event. A path of NXZ, Blysk, KingKong (thrice), EnDerr (twice) and Seither means that he beat more or less everyone except for PiG and Probe in his region, and he’s had a good record against Probe as of late. He even beat Bails in a showmatch afterwards, which alongside his good performance in WCS prior pushes him up quite nicely. It’s definitely a stage better set for an Australian to perform than last time, but a harsh loss to viOLet and a double elimination out of ESL ANZ by Seither makes it hard to confirm that iaguz is beyond his region and ready for bigger challenges.

[image loading]

24. (P)HuK ⇗7
Qualification Path: Invite: Top 8 WCS 2016 Standings

Outside of the big three of Neeb, puCK and MaSa, it’s a little hard to tell where North America’s at right now. It seems like it’s those three, and then everyone else. Bails and JonSnow have swapped places as the awkward 4th wheel, with HuK sitting in some odd place in the middle. Going into Dreamhack Austin, I was optimistic for his chances, but he ended up failing out 0-2 to FireCake and 1-3 against Neeb. While a big loss like that and generally poor results within North America make it very easy to doubt him, there’s still a big thing in HuK’s favor—namely, his quarterfinal run last time. Despite the fact that a lot of the field has only improved since, that run makes it clear that HuK’s moving alongside everyone to stay in a similar position for Spring. He’s keeping up, which in and of itself is pretty impressive for someone who’s been around so long, and that perseverance and experience is what pushes me to give HuK the edge over people who have similar results.


23. (Z)iAsonu ⇘ 3
Qualification Path: 5th-6th, NA Server Qualifiers

iAsonu surprised us by beating TLO last time, and since then he’s added a 2-2 trade with eventual WCS Shanghai champion Harstem to his resumé alongside a 3-0 victory against Kelazhur in Austin and some additional regional results. He’s quite far from uniting the Chinese region as one dominant force (unlike, say, Neeb and the NA region) but he’s taken enough steps to justify a raise in his standing. Still, things like his ensuing loss to puCK in Austin or his matches against PandaBearMe, PtitDrogo and Elazer stop him from showing up as a promising force for a region that hasn’t done well in this foreign WCS system. In short, good progress, but not enough yet.


22. (Z)Guru ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: 5th-8th, EU Server Qualifiers

It’s a shame, really. I was all ready to get up here with a list of people he beat to qualify for Dreamhack Austin and this event, say how good he was for beating Nerchio (easily one of the best ZvZers around) and give him a healthy dosage of hype alongside an optimistic placing. Then, Guru was dumped out of the competition by a dismissive Hydra 3-0. It’s a run that shines light on the questionable nature of his experience and his consistency, which are only going to be bigger problems going into an event as big as Tours. While Guru does still have a better online showing under his belt than many of the players around him, he lacks proof that he’ll be able to bring something similar to the stage at the Spring Championship.


21. (P)Has ⇗5
Qualification Path: 1st, Taiwan / Hong Kong / Macau Regional Challenger

The Prince of Darkness has arrived once more. Vengeance was swift against Bunny, as well as in game one against FireCake, but Has still seemed to have the same problems as before. Wonderfully entertaining style, bad macro. However, considering his matches against Harstem in Shanghai and Snute in Austin, he might actually be onto something. Not only has he had previous success in WCS Winter, but he’s also pushed that dominance into further results. As such, Has serves as the barrier between those too inexperienced to be favoritesand those who are honestly promising going forward, largely due to his gimmicky style that doesn’t hold up well to experienced players . Consider anyone below Has a fringe candidate for a decent run and anyone above someone who has legitimate potential that you should watch out for. Has himself? Who the hell knows. Just watch and grin.

[image loading]

20. (Z)SortOf ⇗2
Qualification Path: 5th-8th, EU Server Qualifiers

Similarly to Strange, SortOf’s name seems to reflect his style—he’s always half there. He managed to beat Lilbow at WCS Winter, and even take Nerchio to some pretty odd games, but didn’t even take a game off the Polish zerg before falling out. Since then, he’s managed to become an online staple; consistently a mid-tier player in the scene, but has struggled to do much more. He hasn’t showed up to any tournaments since and lacks the dominance to push himself higher, but at the same time it’s entirely possible to see a repeat of his win over Lilbow . Not that much is expected of him, but it’d be unfair to say that the new top Swede is without potential.


19. (P)PtitDrogo ⇘ 16
Qualification Path: Invite: Top 8 WCS 2016 Standings

Despite his recent shortcoming at Austin, bombing out 0-3 to Neeb, PtitDrogo remains one of the more well respected European Protosses. He has expressed a lack of confidence in his PvT, which may not bode well for his first round match against Bunny. Should he win, he may still have to face MaSa in the second round, who looks to be in solid form at the moment. Although he said he feels good about his PvZ, his part of the bracket does not play well into that strength. We know that on a good day, the Frenchman is good enough to win a tournament on the caliber of DreamHack, but having a good day at Tours will require him to lift his play one step up. In other sports one might point to the home crowd advantage, and the audience very well could provide him a confidence boost.


18. (Z)FireCake ⇘ 4
Qualification Path: 3rd, French Qualifiers (MarineLorD disqualified)

FireCake kicked off Legacy with a bang. 3rd at Dreamhack Winter, and 2nd at HomeStory Cup were laudable results; especially as he was the highest placed foreigner at both events. Since then, though, it’s been a little more shaky. An 0-3 Ro.32 exit to Serral at DH Leipzig was a shock, a 1-3 loss to Polt in the WCS Winter quarterfinals more understandable. His recent reversal over Polt at DH Austin was a step in the right direction, while his loss to MaSa clearly was not. It all adds up to a confusing few months for the Frenchman on LAN. Maybe a convincing display here could cement his status.


17. (Z)Bly ⇘ 5
Qualification Path: Top 4, EU Server Qualifiers

In general, when a new strategy game is released, aggression is always superior to defence. That’s especially true in Legacy of the Void, where the punishing effect of worker harassment, new economies and wide variety of options gave zergs a litany of aggressive openers and all-ins. As the months tick by, and the game is worked out more and more, defensive macro plays become more and more viable as builds are refined and counters honed. Bly stood tall as the most aggressive, most unique zerg in the EU scene in the months after release. He was justly rewarded—a second place at DH Leipzig his best career result, alongside his similarly anomalous silver at DH Bucharest over three years ago. The only question is whether that aggressive style will continue to pay dividends. A 2-3 loss to Elazer at WCS Winter must have been a disappointment, and after admitting that he’s closer to the end than the start of his long career in esports, he’ll be wondering if he can cap it all off with one final triumph.


16. (T)Happy ⇘ 5
Qualification Path: 9th-12th, EU Server Qualifiers (Clem disqualified)

For better or for worse, you always know what to expect with Happy. The methodical Russian has been a stalwart in the EU scene for eternity, and he’s one of the most consistent foreign terrans of the WCS era. From 2013 to 2014, he never missed a Premier League, oscillating from the Ro.32 to the Ro.8. 2015 though, was a different story. While it began predictably, he failed to make Challenger in either Season 2 or 3. That general malaise has carried over to Legacy. WCS Winter is the sole LAN he’s attended in 2016, and a 2-3 loss to Hydra ended that run at the first hurdle. Online, he’s still the same old Happy, but without a significant result in over a year, time is ticking on.


15. (P)Lilbow ⇔ NC
Qualification Path: 1st, French Qualifiers

The spectre of BlizzCon still hangs over the Frenchman. Every lost game; every dropped series; every tournament without that elusive promised trophy. Even if he doesn’t feel the pressure of his statement last November hanging over him, it’s a shadow which follows him around, from the LR threads to twitter and reddit. He’s shown in the past that he can deal fine with pressure in-game—after all, he was the second foreigner after Sen to break the Korean hegemony in Premier titles—but this is a burden of a different sort. Six months after the Legacy launch, Lilbow’s still lacking any truly defining results—Ro.16 / Ro.32 finishes across the board. He’s still racking up results in qualifiers and online events—his 33-9 record in PvZ in the past two months is particularly noteworthy—but the clamouring for an offline win is growing louder and louder.


14. (T)MaSa ⇗15
Qualification Path: Top 4, NA Server Qualifiers

Somehow, someway, MaSa has actually become really good. Across his past three LANs, he’s beaten Neeb to prove that he’s up there with the best in North America, beaten Harstem and FireCake to prove that he’s beyond the constraints of the European-America barrier, and managed to give Snute a good fight in WCS Winter. Of course, his failures to both Hydra and Snute make it hard to get as excited for him as one could for Neeb, but he’s quite clearly one of the most promising North American players and should be watched going forward. Neeb might be the spearhead for the scene, but MaSa (and puCK) are the people who are here to prove that Neeb is part of a larger trend within the scene. He's held back by his lack of online consistency and the fact that he isn’t very proven offline, but a good run here will skyrocket him up without problem.


13. (P)puCK ⇗14
Qualification Path: 2nd, NA Regional Challenger

Quietly, puCK has been one of the more consistent North American Protosses recently. He has flashes of remarkable grit in macro games and an unsung penchant for designing clever builds here and there. Having taken Neeb to five games in the quarterfinals of DreamHack Austin and reached the top 4 at WCS Shanghai, puCK looks to be formidable in every matchup, if inconsistent. If there must be one cliché "dark horse" at Tours, puCK might be it. Unfortunately for him, he's drawn one of the tougher portions of the bracket for the first few rounds with MaSa as his starting opponent and either Bunny or PtitDrogo should he pass that test.


12. (T)Bunny ⇗1
Qualification Path: 5th-8th, EU Server Qualifiers

For years, Bunny was the only foreign terran who performed on LAN. Whether it was his consistently good performances in WCS, culminating in his dual semifinals last year, or his weekender success—notably winning Gfinity G3 over StarDust, TLO, Snute and HyuN in 2014—he’s certainly earnt enough credit for us to dismiss a few crummy events. Even so, there’s no denying that his Legacy campaign has been decidedly mediocre. Poor results at DH Winter and HSC at the end of 2015, and a first round exit at the hands of Has at WCS Winter have been the only tournament results so far for Bunny. That said, his online results have been great (73% map winrate online in 2016), and he’s had a couple of great runs recently in the WCS Spring / HSC qualifiers.


11. (P)Harstem ⇗7
Qualification Path: Invite: Top 8 WCS 2016 Standings

After all the false predictions, it looks like 2016 might finally be the Year of Harstem™. Coming off a stay in Korea during the off season and his first premier tournament win at WCS Shanghai, Harstem may be in close to the best shape he could be to take a massive win at Tours. Although he suffered a disappointing reverse sweep loss to Namshar at DreamHack Austin, after which he expressed frustration with his abilities in PvZ, Harstem seems to be otherwise confident in his chances to win any tournament on the WCS circuit. If PvZ is really his only weakness, the bracket will play greatly into his favor. With only one Zerg opponent guaranteed in the second round, and then a second in the semifinals at the earliest, the Dutch Protoss may have enough time to work out the kinks and round out his play as the top contender from the second strata of players here at Tours.

[image loading]

10. (Z)viOLet ⇔ NC
Qualification Path: Invite: Top 8 WCS 2016 Standings

Coming in at #10 is the lowest ranked Korean in the competition. viOLet is certainly the least effective of the three KR stalwarts left in the WCS system, and his poor performance in 2015 led many to feel that his time had come and gone. Then, the format for WCS was announced. viOLet has always been a weekend warrior. Even in his 2012-13 heyday, viOLet was a far more effective player in some of the most stacked IEMs and MLGs and IPLs in history than in GSL or WCS, and the transition from league-based WCS to the WCS Circuit of 2016 should definitely be to his benefit. His PvZ so far in 2016 has been extremely good (38-7 in 2016 so far), and we’ve seen him clock up a couple of decent results—a top 4 finish at Leipzig over Welmu, Elazer and Serral; a top 8 at WCS Winter over puCK and MarineLorD. That said, if there’s anything like the same desire for glory remaining inside him that drove him to all those results in the past, he’ll still have higher ambitions.


9. (Z)VortiX ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: Top 4, EU Server Qualifiers

VortiX is the biggest unknown in the whole WCS lineup right now. Historically, of course, he’s one of the very best WCS-era foreigners of all time. 2nd in WCS EU 2012 behind Stephano, a top 4 finish in WCS 2013 S3, and multiple top 8 finishes throughout HotS is a record that any foreigner would be proud of. That said, it’s been a whole 18 months since his last Premier tournament—he’s been to Heroes and back in the meantime—and it remains to be seen how he’ll deal with his second debut. He forfeited his spot last time round at WCS Winter, and hasn’t been able to attend any LANs in the meantime, falling to TLO and SortOf in the DH Austin qualifiers. That said, his online form has been solid for the most part (66% win rate online), and his WCS Winter / Spring qualifier runs in particular have been impressive. If there’s one pick on this list which is based more on the past than the present, this is it; he’ll need to deliver results to maintain his position.


8. (Z)Elazer ⇗13
Qualification Path: Invite: Top 8 WCS 2016 Standings

For quite a while now, Elazer’s been ‘that Polish zerg who’s not Nerchio’. He first broke out into the scene in 2015 with a pair of Premier league appearances, falling out in the first group stage both times (although Hitman’s forfeit gave him a reprieve in S3). Legacy’s been a distinct step up—top 12 at DH Winter, top 16 at Leipzig, and an impressive top 4 at HSC. His performance at WCS Winter was more of the same—wins over Bly and iAsonu, before losing to Hydra in the quarterfinals, while WCS Shanghai must have been a disappointment—losing to perennial nemesis Nerchio was understandable; losing to Scarlett perhaps a little more galling. In general, that’s where he’ll be looking to improve next. He’s reasonably consistent against the lower tier players he runs into, while he’s also equally consistent in losing to better players. For lack of a better word, he lacks the ‘X-Factor’ to take upsets over the bigger fish in the WCS pond, and that’ll be an area he’ll need to address to go far here.

7. (T)uThermal ⇔ NEW
Qualification Path: Top 4, EU Server Qualifiers

Much like some other players on this list, uThermal has been a quintessential ‘onliner’ throughout most of Starcraft 2. His career winrate offline of 61% is certainly impressive (with a jump to 68% so far in 2016), but it’s converting that into results at major LANs that’s proved to be the issue. Constant exits from WCS in Challenger or the Ro.32; low finishes in Dreamhacks, HSCs and IEMs. The skill that he demonstrates time and again from the comfort of his home simply doesn’t materialise nearly as often as required at major events, and he’s spoken in the past about his issues with nerves on stage.

That all fell aside at Dreamhack Leipzig, where he stormed to a top 4 finish, beating Tefel, Harstem and ShoWTimE in the playoffs. It remains to be seen if he can keep that level up moving into WCS Spring—while his online form is as good as ever, he hasn’t appeared at a major LAN since—but if he arrives in the same mood, expect to see his unique brand of terran aggression.

6. (P)ShoWTimE ⇗3
Qualification Path: 2nd, EU Regional Challenger

ShoWTimE’s evolution over the past couple of years has been a bit of a rocky road. Starting off as a rather average protoss in Heart of the Swarm, he emerged as a major threat at WCS 2015 Season 1. WCS at the time was suffering from a lack of true macro protosses after NaNiwa’s quasi-retirement; ShoWTimE’s top 4 finish in Poitiers came at a time where no other protoss finished in the top 8. Strong in all three matchups, his PvZ was a particular highlight, blending sharp gateway timings with more traditional defensive lategame play. Then, it all fell apart. Elimination in WCS Challenger in S2 by Elazer; falling to Sen in the group stages in S3. From being the standout protoss of Season 1, to being usurped by a whole host of rising stars at the year’s end.

Legacy came at an opportune time for him, and proved to be the shot in the arm that he needed. A brilliant losers’ bracket run at DH Winter drove him to a 4th place finish; top 8 finishes at HSC and DH Leipzig seemed to suggest that this was not another flash in the pan. Elimination at the very first stage of WCS Winter will have been a huge disappointment, but perhaps the fact that he was seeded against Nerchio makes that loss somewhat excusable. Since then, he’s been quiet—no attempts to qualify for either WCS Shanghai or Dreamhack Austin—although he’s been dominating the German scene along with HeRoMaRinE. It’s probable that all efforts have been focussed on WCS Spring, and hopefully this time, he’ll manage to push on in the second half of the year.


5. (P)Neeb ⇗3
Qualification Path: 1st, NA Regional Challenger

OK Neeb, time to stop now. You’ve had your fun. Online winrates of 70%+ in all three matchups in 2016 (81% in PvP). Regular wins over the American-Korean contingent (7-3 Hydra in 2016, 8-5 Polt, 3-1 viOLet). Consistent domination of his region’s qualifiers, be that DH Austin (10-2 run), WCS Spring NA Regionals (12-4), or his carousel of wins in the regular weekly cups dotted around the schedule. You’re not seriously saying that NA actually has a shot at a Premier title, are you?

Well, everything points in that direction actually. The big wins have come steadily, one by one, week by week, while his silver medal at DH Austin was the culmination of a promising, but unsuccessful patch of LAN appearances. Finally, he’s found success offline, and maybe the nerves that he frequently speaks of will be that much calmer next time he’s sitting in the booth playing for the big prize. During his precipitous rise over the past six months, Neeb has ticked all the boxes one by one—capable of beating the best players in WCS; capable of winning online; consistent beyond reproach. The only thing left to do is raise the trophy.


4. (Z)Hydra ⇘ 2
Qualification Path: Invite: Top 8 WCS 2016 Standings

Hydra was the champion that was promised. The Korean champion, sent to foreignerland to cleanse the masses with his KeSPA training and superior genes. While that’s true to some extent—he certainly was the best performing player of WCS 2015—he’s still been (whisper it) somewhat of a disappointment. Since he moved to the USA and Root Gaming, there’s still a sense of ‘not quite’ about the ex-CJ Entus star. His aforementioned WCS title and 3-4 Season 1 loss to Polt were certainly impressive achievements, but everything else has been a bit below par—a resumé littered in Ro.8s and Ro.16s.

A loss to Snute in the Winter Championships semifinals last time round had been the closest he’s been to those twin season triumphs, until last week’s win in Austin. Dominant play in all 3 matchups drove him to his first title in a year. 3-0 Guru, 3-0 Bly, 3-2 Elazer in ZvZ; 3-0 MaSa in ZvT; 4-2 Neeb in ZvP. His online play is as effective as ever—a map winrate of 72% since WCS Winter. For the first time since WCS Season 2 last year, the threat of Korean domination of WCS is rearing its head. Hail Hydra indeed.


3. (Z)Nerchio ⇘ 2
Qualification Path: 1st, EU Regional Challenger

In the Starcraft world, there’s always been a dichotomy between players who excel online, and those who win the big competitions. Obviously, it’s true that the best of the best find a way in both, but there are a select few who’ve struggled to convert success from the comfort of their home or teamhouse to success in the booth. Clearly, the stigma of the online bonjwa isn’t one that can be attached to Nerchio historically. Wins at HomeStory Cup and Dreamhack Bucharest; high placements at tournaments from Wings of Liberty to Legacy. He’s one of the most proven offline competitors in foreigner Starcraft history.

That said, it’s been a curious six months of Legacy so far for the Pole. On the one hand, he’s cut a swathe through the online EU scene. An online map record of 681-243 (83% match win percentage) is stunning, even considering the lower calibre of player that he often +runs into in the weekly cups that he frequents. Qualifying for WCS Spring by taking first place in his Regionals bracket is just a small example of the consistency he exerts on the rest of the scene, day in, day out.

On the other hand, though, it’s been six months without a signature result. Before WCS Winter, there were encouraging times (Top 6 at DH Winter, Top 8 at HomeStory Cup) and disappointments (Ro.32 exit at DH Leipzig). After WCS Winter, there was a sole appearance at WCS Shanghai (top 8). WCS Winter itself was the closest he’s been to the title he craves, but Polt in fine form swept him with ease in the semifinals. Granted, he’s been stopped on each occasion by impressive players (ShoWTimE at DH Winter, MMA at HSC, Lilbow at Leipzig, Polt at WCS Winter, Snute at WCS Shanghai), but if you want to win, you’ll have to beat the best in the competition. For one of the big hitters of the EU scene, it’s time to start to deliver.


2. (Z)Snute ⇗ 4
Qualification Path: Invite: Top 8 WCS 2016 Standings

Slowly, Snute is creeping towards his goal. For years, he was a solid European, capable of pulling off the odd upset. During HotS, he morphed into a protoss killing machine, taking games and matches off pretty much every player in the world. sOs, Rain, Classic, herO, MC; five of the absolute best players in Starcraft history. All beaten, all on LAN. Since mid-April 2014, he holds a 36-24 map record against Korean protosses offline; a 15-7 record in matches played. PvZ was the matchup that catapulted him into the big leagues; the matchup that made him one of the foreign hope in the lean years of HotS.

It’s strange to see then, in this time of his greatest success, that it’s the matchup that’s abandoned him. Compare and contrast a winrate of 52% in PvZ to 68% in the other two combined in offline LotV. Three of his past four tournament exits have both come at the hand of protosses—Neeb in the DH Austin semifinals, Harstem in WCS Shanghai, herO at IEM Taipei. As he himself states, the matchup is one that is causing him some trouble.

While that weakness may be an issue, it shouldn’t distract from the consistently impressive results he’s put up since Legacy launched. Since losing to Polt at WCS Winter, he’s added a second silver from WCS Shanghai, followed by a top 4 finish at DH Austin. His online form’s not too shabby either—notably taking out Zest 3-0 days before the GSL Finals. There’ve been small missteps, such as being dumped out of EU Regionals by LucifroN and Bunny, or of the DH Austin qualifiers by Guru and MiNiMaTh, but that’s nothing compared to the peaks he’s scaled offline this year. With two silvers and a top four in the bag, it’s time for Snute to push one step higher.


1. (T)Polt ⇗ 4
Qualification Path: Invite: Top 8 WCS 2016 Standings

It’s been a long time since we’ve seen the best of Polt. He did take the trophy home from the first post-KR WCS Season, but only made the semis and quarters of the next two seasons. Sure, only Polt could call the Ro.4 / Ro.8 ‘disappointments’, but in tandem with his limited appearance at foreign LANs during the year, 2015 was definitely not a vintage year for the ex-CM Storm terran.

Swap to 2016 then, and once more history seems to be repeating itself. A smattering of decent online results were neither here nor there when it came to assessing his transition to Legacy of the Void, and were tempered by a poor performance at his sole LAN appearance at IEM Taipei. He arrived in Katowice for the WCS Winter Championships with little fanfare. The respect he was given was purely down to his reputation—three time WCS champion, GSL Super Tournament champion, regular antagonist at MLGs and Red Bulls and ASUS ROGs—and less to any observable results. Then, the tournament kicked off. Wins over Lambo and Dayshi were to be expected; his top 8 run, including convincing wins over FireCake, Nerchio and Snute, perhaps not. At the end of the WCS Winter Championships in Katowice, Polt was once more the king of WCS.

So, what now? Polt’s been relatively quiet in the weeks between WCS Season events. His online form has been merely ‘good’, and in particular it seems that a weakness to zerg has crept in. Since WCS Winter, he’s 16-17 in the matchup, dropping series to Rogue, Nerchio, Cham and XiGua. Most recently, of course, there was the loss to FireCake at Dreamhack Austin, where he couldn’t pick a flaw in the Frenchman’s roach / ravager / infestor turtle to ultralisks strategy.

Then again, if there’s one thing we know about Polt, it’s that he’s at his best when he’s weakest. Famed for his ability to comeback in games when down and out, it’s also true of his general approach to Starcraft. Polt’s shown time and again that he’s one of the very best in the world at fixing his flaws. He’ll be horribly shown up at an event, and blitz his way through the next, having ironed out all the kinks in his strategies. There’s a select band of players in Starcraft history who’ve beaten the odds enough that you simply have to trust that they’ll arrive in form, and Polt is certainly one. He may yet repeat the trophy-less latter half of 2015, but for now, the king still sits on his throne.

[image loading]

Credits:
Writers: Soularion, munch, banjoetheredskin
Editors: munch
Graphics: shiroiusagi.
Photos: Helena Kristiansson, TeSL, TheOneAboveU
Stats: Aligulac

Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
banjoetheredskin
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States744 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 04:09:02
May 13 2016 02:51 GMT
#2
Your rankings are bad and you should feel bad
+ Show Spoiler +
sarcasm, folks
Writer#1 CJ fan | http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/508947-wcs-dreamhack-austin-interviews
BretZ
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1510 Posts
May 13 2016 02:58 GMT
#3
^hahahahaha

I love this power rank though. Really cool to see some fresh names and old heroes mixed around. and as a NA pleb I'm so excited about Neeb's performances. I was blown away at how quickly he seemed to improve his mentality from one event to the next. Stoked to see his first tournament win.
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
May 13 2016 02:59 GMT
#4
guys I just wrote stuff, don't shout at me for rankings pls
WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
May 13 2016 03:07 GMT
#5
Liquid bias.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13972 Posts
May 13 2016 03:27 GMT
#6
On May 13 2016 11:51 banjoetheredskin wrote:
Your rankings are bad and you should feel bad

Savage

Also HuK hype!
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
MiniFotToss
Profile Joined December 2013
China2430 Posts
May 13 2016 03:39 GMT
#7
On May 13 2016 11:51 banjoetheredskin wrote:
Your rankings are bad and you should feel bad

give him a break it's his opinion
Comedy
Profile Joined March 2016
456 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 04:32:26
May 13 2016 04:30 GMT
#8
The comment about scarlett is really odd. She did beat Creator and Seed in her SS qualifier, and only dropped 1-2 to ryung.for GSL.

She's also continuously streamed her ladder games and displayed a high level of play.
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
May 13 2016 04:33 GMT
#9
Nice, another power rank we can mock
Didn't think I'd see the day where NA players are actually relevant (MaSa and Neeb)
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
May 13 2016 04:41 GMT
#10
On May 13 2016 13:30 Comedy wrote:
The comment about scarlett is really odd. She did beat Creator and Seed in her SS qualifier, and only dropped 1-2 to ryung.for GSL.

She's also continuously streamed her ladder games and displayed a high level of play.


And dropped 1-2 to Bomber. I suppose the thing is that while against Koreans, the results are almost there, against foreigners, the results are really not there.

Take Polt, while he's dropped several series recently, his overall results are very good.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
SlammerIV
Profile Joined December 2013
United States526 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 05:26:18
May 13 2016 05:23 GMT
#11
Can we all agree that Scarlett's placement is a complete travesty, Placing Strange and Iaguz over her?! Cmon now.....


Hmm, I feel Polt and Hydra should be switched tbh, hydra looked super solid while polt got wrecked in the ro8......
JmintSC2
Profile Joined May 2016
1 Post
May 13 2016 06:35 GMT
#12
Polt n 1 ???, wtf man, you don't see Austin??, Polt is thinking more in his girlfriend now i think, he is so far that his high level in SC2, Masa in semis, sorry for Neeb, so early Hydra.
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
May 13 2016 06:42 GMT
#13
I am confused by the ranking. Why would you not put the dominant player at the top of it?
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
plasma4
Profile Joined March 2016
123 Posts
May 13 2016 06:50 GMT
#14
how far are these guys from the koreans at GSL and SSL. for example can someone like cure dominate these guys.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
May 13 2016 06:53 GMT
#15
These rankings seem pretty heavily based (though inconsistently) based on past form. Polt for example...
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
May 13 2016 06:56 GMT
#16
On May 13 2016 15:50 plasma4 wrote:
how far are these guys from the koreans at GSL and SSL. for example can someone like cure dominate these guys.


If you put all these guys in the SSL and GSL qualifiers, a couple of them would likely get to Code A/Challenger. Given a couple lucky matchups, I think a couple might make it into SSL or GSL. It's not too likely that foreigners would break into Code S or past the Ro32, but seeing as how Snute has repeatedly beaten GSL winners, I don't think the gap is as big as people might say.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
necrosexy
Profile Joined March 2011
451 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 06:56:41
May 13 2016 06:56 GMT
#17
hydra is 2, neeb is 3
Inflicted
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia18228 Posts
May 13 2016 07:03 GMT
#18
Disgusting, why isn't PtitDrogo #3?
Liquipedia"Expert"
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
May 13 2016 07:05 GMT
#19
So if the player at 27 can be one game away from both GSL and SSL, I wonder how many of these guys could get in. Maybe Strange, Huk and iaguz could do it?
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
May 13 2016 07:19 GMT
#20
Polt is a little high considering his performance in Austin. Hopefully he bounces back though, everyone has ups and downs for sure.
maru lover forever
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
May 13 2016 07:23 GMT
#21
On May 13 2016 16:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So if the player at 27 can be one game away from both GSL and SSL, I wonder how many of these guys could get in. Maybe Strange, Huk and iaguz could do it?

yeah they would totally make it over Bomber
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Diabolique
Profile Joined June 2015
Czech Republic5118 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 08:54:42
May 13 2016 08:54 GMT
#22
Nice to have an entertaining event while waiting for the Proleague finals!

Go HuK! I want many many interviews with HuK!
Go Scarlett! Show how it can be mentally strengthening to try your luck in the hardest competition in the world!
Go Polt! Switch back to your god mode and show everyone who doubts you who you are Cptn.!
And Snute could win it all? :-)
sOs | Rogue | Maru | Trap | Scarlett | Snute | MC
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
May 13 2016 08:58 GMT
#23
Snute so high TL bias fire author immediately fire whole staff Neeb #1 MURICA
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
PtitDrogo
Profile Joined May 2011
France163 Posts
May 13 2016 09:15 GMT
#24
Last time I was way too high now way too low ahah, oh well I guess I should try to not get 3-0ed this time
Progamer
Corvuuss
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Austria354 Posts
May 13 2016 10:56 GMT
#25
Wait I thought snute 1, bunny 2 and vortix 3 not enough liquid bias Pls allow taeja in he would rekt everyone scrubs

Honestly though I think hydra should be 2 not snute
I am a slave of Golden from now on. Obey a supreme leader of StarCraft 2 or you get banned. I am really glad to be citizen of Democratic republic of Golden.
Soularion
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Canada2764 Posts
May 13 2016 11:10 GMT
#26
On May 13 2016 16:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So if the player at 27 can be one game away from both GSL and SSL, I wonder how many of these guys could get in. Maybe Strange, Huk and iaguz could do it?

Unfortunately I rate Scarlett's consistent failures in her region - losing to Semper in Kings of the North, PiLiPiLi/JonSnow in Dreamhack Austin Qualifiers, Drunkenboi in Regionals, puCK in GPL - higher than her relative success in one game out of 3 against Bomber/Ryung and two games out of 3 against Elazer in GPL. I might've bumped her up with SSL results, but by then the article was largely finished and the bump-up wouldn't be significant anyway.

Note that JonSnow was one game away from beating Hydra in Dreamhack Austin. One game matters a lot.
Writermaru pls
atrox_
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom1710 Posts
May 13 2016 11:17 GMT
#27
wow christ nerds about these rankings. write your own if you're so bothered by it
Rehio
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1718 Posts
May 13 2016 11:52 GMT
#28
I gotta say, I don't really get Polt's placement here.

Nice write-up, though.
Taari
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany138 Posts
May 13 2016 12:25 GMT
#29
Agreeing with most of it. i miss the harstem-dayshi-line from winter. now we have the happy-line?
Happy, herO, Neeb, Zest, uThermal, Welmu, Creator, VortiX, ShoWTimE
Soularion
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Canada2764 Posts
May 13 2016 12:49 GMT
#30
On May 13 2016 21:25 Taari wrote:
Agreeing with most of it. i miss the harstem-dayshi-line from winter. now we have the happy-line?

The SortOf line is more of a thing- everyone above SortOf is a person with known potential and everyone below him is pretty fringe/uncertain.
Writermaru pls
ANGELIAS1234
Profile Joined September 2011
United States46 Posts
May 13 2016 13:09 GMT
#31
i know i will not be watching it if them are the only player i want the best and they are not the best
Diabolique
Profile Joined June 2015
Czech Republic5118 Posts
May 13 2016 13:49 GMT
#32
On May 13 2016 22:09 ANGELIAS1234 wrote:
i know i will not be watching it if them are the only player i want the best and they are not the best

Wait! Polt is the best and Snute is among the best!

Somehow, I RegreT that Snute never tried what NoRegreT almost achieved.
sOs | Rogue | Maru | Trap | Scarlett | Snute | MC
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9371 Posts
May 13 2016 13:55 GMT
#33
He’ll be horribly shown up at an event, and blitz his way through the next,


Sounds like a cool story, but I don't remember that this is actually true. If anything I remember Polt as someone who always shows up at a high consistency. His atrocious performance vs Firecake is not something that I remember having seen before.

Also given that Polt has lots the last few series vs Neeb and the last series vs Puck, I don't believe you can justify him at #1. I am not sure I would even have him at top 5.
Diabolique
Profile Joined June 2015
Czech Republic5118 Posts
May 13 2016 13:56 GMT
#34
Captn. America is the best when it matters ...
sOs | Rogue | Maru | Trap | Scarlett | Snute | MC
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9371 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 14:19:21
May 13 2016 14:15 GMT
#35
Are you same its the same author who writes both articles? Let's look at the argument for rating Iaguz over Scarlett

He even beat Bails in a showmatch afterwards, which alongside his good performance in WCS prior pushes him up quite nicely.


Now let's look at the reasoning for Scarlett:

INnoVation, Ryung, Zoun, herO and Bomber. This matches her generally underwhelming performance throughout Legacy of the Void. A win over Elazer at WCS Shanghai was a welcome surprise, but even then, puCK knocked her out and stole the show.


So for some reason Scarlett's win over Elazer gets downplayed whereas Iaguz who basically only has beaten Australians througout LOTV and won one seires over a mediocore NA player - Bails - gets rewarded.

Talking about Bails, Scarlett is 11-5 over Bails over the last 3 months.

But for some reason, its problematic when Scarlett loses to Scarlett. I am sure Iaguz would beat Innovation and Ryung on the other hand.

These types of rankings are a recurring theme in TLs power rankings. Some stuff are just not a matter of opinion, but straight up wrong in every single way you can look at it.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9371 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 14:33:00
May 13 2016 14:23 GMT
#36
Unfortunately I rate Scarlett's consistent failures in her region - losing to Semper in Kings of the North, PiLiPiLi/JonSnow in Dreamhack Austin Qualifiers, Drunkenboi in Regionals, puCK in GPL - higher than her relative success in one game out of 3 against Bomber/Ryung and two games out of 3 against Elazer in GPL. I might've bumped her up with SSL results, but by then the article was largely finished and the bump-up wouldn't be significant anyway.


Your just nitpicking here on her bad results. She played a ton of games in LOTV and ofc she is gonna lose too worse players once in a while. But on average, her results are a clear level above that of Iaguz.

The argument of rating Iaguz above that of Scarlett because he managed to beat Bails is one of the worst I have ever heard.

And if you are going to nitpick on bad results, why not look at Iaguz's 1-8 receord vs PIG!!!!

Pig is worse than Drunkenboi, Semper, Jonsnow, Pilipi or whoever Scarlett has lost to (once - like she usually beats Drunkenboi). And Iaguz has no wins that are as good as those of Scarlett.

but if any other North American player had her results there’d be almost no hype going into Tours for them


And how did you manage to get from "no reason to hype her up" to "one of the worst players at the tournmant". Noone expects her to win nor believe she is one of the favourites. However, she is unqestionably better than some of the better ranked players - most obviously Iaguz, who probably is the worst player at the tournament.
RichardNPL
Profile Joined November 2015
185 Posts
May 13 2016 14:42 GMT
#37
On May 13 2016 16:23 Shellshock wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 16:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So if the player at 27 can be one game away from both GSL and SSL, I wonder how many of these guys could get in. Maybe Strange, Huk and iaguz could do it?

yeah they would totally make it over Bomber

I think huk could dunno about Strange or iaguz
Silvana
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
3713 Posts
May 13 2016 14:44 GMT
#38
On May 13 2016 23:23 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
Unfortunately I rate Scarlett's consistent failures in her region - losing to Semper in Kings of the North, PiLiPiLi/JonSnow in Dreamhack Austin Qualifiers, Drunkenboi in Regionals, puCK in GPL - higher than her relative success in one game out of 3 against Bomber/Ryung and two games out of 3 against Elazer in GPL. I might've bumped her up with SSL results, but by then the article was largely finished and the bump-up wouldn't be significant anyway.


Your just nitpicking here on her bad results. She played a ton of games in LOTV and ofc she is gonna lose too worse players once in a while. But on average, her results are a clear level above that of Iaguz.

The argument of rating Iaguz above that of Scarlett because he managed to beat Bails is one of the worst I have ever heard.

And if you are going to nitpick on bad results, why not look at Iaguz's 1-8 receord vs PIG!!!!

Pig is worse than Drunkenboi, Semper, Jonsnow, Pilipi or whoever Scarlett has lost to (once - like she usually beats Drunkenboi). And Iaguz has no wins that are as good as those of Scarlett.

Show nested quote +
but if any other North American player had her results there’d be almost no hype going into Tours for them


And how did you manage to get from "no reason to hype her up" to "one of the worst players at the tournmant". Noone expects her to win nor believe she is one of the favourites. However, she is unqestionably better than some of the better ranked players - most obviously Iaguz, who probably is the worst player at the tournament.


inb4 Iaguz 3-0s Scarlett
ssg
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1770 Posts
May 13 2016 14:50 GMT
#39
How in the world is Vortix so high? He literally hasn't done anything in LotV. Liquid bias is real.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
May 13 2016 14:52 GMT
#40
Hydra looked pretty good in Austin and current form is more important than months long history. But I believe Polt can always come back, he is just incredibly good at getting good. So I would put those two as favourites, but no idea who is actually ahead.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15914 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 15:01:08
May 13 2016 14:58 GMT
#41
scarlett is pretty much a wildcard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets far in this tournament but she basically has no results in LotV so far so there's no reason to rank her higher.
potential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that.

edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 15:02:14
May 13 2016 15:02 GMT
#42
On May 13 2016 23:44 Silvana wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 23:23 Hider wrote:
Unfortunately I rate Scarlett's consistent failures in her region - losing to Semper in Kings of the North, PiLiPiLi/JonSnow in Dreamhack Austin Qualifiers, Drunkenboi in Regionals, puCK in GPL - higher than her relative success in one game out of 3 against Bomber/Ryung and two games out of 3 against Elazer in GPL. I might've bumped her up with SSL results, but by then the article was largely finished and the bump-up wouldn't be significant anyway.


Your just nitpicking here on her bad results. She played a ton of games in LOTV and ofc she is gonna lose too worse players once in a while. But on average, her results are a clear level above that of Iaguz.

The argument of rating Iaguz above that of Scarlett because he managed to beat Bails is one of the worst I have ever heard.

And if you are going to nitpick on bad results, why not look at Iaguz's 1-8 receord vs PIG!!!!

Pig is worse than Drunkenboi, Semper, Jonsnow, Pilipi or whoever Scarlett has lost to (once - like she usually beats Drunkenboi). And Iaguz has no wins that are as good as those of Scarlett.

but if any other North American player had her results there’d be almost no hype going into Tours for them


And how did you manage to get from "no reason to hype her up" to "one of the worst players at the tournmant". Noone expects her to win nor believe she is one of the favourites. However, she is unqestionably better than some of the better ranked players - most obviously Iaguz, who probably is the worst player at the tournament.


inb4 Iaguz 3-0s Scarlett

They're on opposite sides of the bracket, so that would be rather hard
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
May 13 2016 16:21 GMT
#43
Polt and Violet too high. Hydra is no. 1 imo. FireCake way too low. But overall I agree with most of it, thanks for the PR!
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
May 13 2016 16:24 GMT
#44
On May 13 2016 23:58 Charoisaur wrote:
scarlett is pretty much a wildcard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets far in this tournament but she basically has no results in LotV so far so there's no reason to rank her higher.
potential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that.

edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.


Snute already won a tournament in LotV.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
May 13 2016 16:57 GMT
#45
I didn't even know till now that there is WCS going on this weekend^^
Now i know what to do at least
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
rotta
Profile Joined December 2011
5585 Posts
May 13 2016 17:03 GMT
#46
On May 14 2016 01:24 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 23:58 Charoisaur wrote:
scarlett is pretty much a wildcard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets far in this tournament but she basically has no results in LotV so far so there's no reason to rank her higher.
potential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that.

edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.


Snute already won a tournament in LotV.

Maybe he counts Premiers only?
don't wall off against random
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9371 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 17:29:46
May 13 2016 17:23 GMT
#47
edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.


Nerchio was a much worse player in HOTS than in LOTV. People tend to confuse correlation with causation.

Hydra winning Austin had nothing to do with mentality and knowing how to win. People who talk like are people who cannot actually analyze games and instead need to spam buzzwords to explain results.

inb4 Iaguz 3-0s Scarlett


Couldn't care less who wins. What I care about are bad arguments. And in every single way you compare Scarlett to Iaguz, the former comes out as the better player.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
May 13 2016 18:18 GMT
#48
On May 14 2016 02:23 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.


Nerchio was a much worse player in HOTS than in LOTV. People tend to confuse correlation with causation.

Hydra winning Austin had nothing to do with mentality and knowing how to win. People who talk like are people who cannot actually analyze games and instead need to spam buzzwords to explain results.

Show nested quote +
inb4 Iaguz 3-0s Scarlett


Couldn't care less who wins. What I care about are bad arguments. And in every single way you compare Scarlett to Iaguz, the former comes out as the better player.

Like it or not but mentality is part of competing and is part of the reason championship calibre players are who they are.
Pure skill isn't everything you need to be a tournament winner.
So no, people who actually take that into consideration too aren't too dumb to analyze whatever you think is important, there are a lot of factors which play into the "total skill" of a player in any given situation.

IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Cluster__
Profile Joined September 2013
United States328 Posts
May 13 2016 19:25 GMT
#49
awesome to see the power rank in this context. Very excited for this tournament.
Liquid`Snute, AcerScarlett, ROOTCatZ, MC, Maru, Soulkey, Losira
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24192 Posts
May 13 2016 19:27 GMT
#50
So excited for that tournament. Nice write-up as usual.
deus.machinarum
Profile Joined September 2011
Austria658 Posts
May 13 2016 20:13 GMT
#51
Pretty hyped for this tournament, was surprised to find a PR seeing how it's a foreigner only event.

Could not disagree more on Scarlett's placement but that's because I'm a huge fanboy

Guess we'll find out demain!
Nothing worth having comes easy.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9371 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 20:28:39
May 13 2016 20:24 GMT
#52
Like it or not but mentality is part of competing and is part of the reason championship calibre players are who they are.
Pure skill isn't everything you need to be a tournament winner.


Problem is when you reason tournament wins with better mentality without actually looking and analyzing the games nor basing your assesment from statistical data.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Hydra has any type of "winning mentality" that means we should credit him further than his actual skill level.

This is the same type og logic that made an esport-journalist rank Neeb as a tier-2 player below Violet and Harstem at Dreamhack Austin.

And it's also the same type of flawed logic that made TL predict Ptitdrogo as the 3rd best player in one of the last tournaments when he clearly wasn't anywhere no there.

It's just bad analysis from people confusing correlation with causation. '

Anyway, with regards to Hydra's actual skill level, he is ranked as the best player along with Nerchio according to Aligulac, so there is no problem there. But please stop with the goddamn lazy buzzword-spamming pseudoanalysis.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9371 Posts
May 13 2016 20:36 GMT
#53
If one continues to believe that Scarlett and Iaguz are ranked fairly, then I suggest that one put money on where their mouth is.

Because right the bookmakers imply that Scarlett is favored against Firecake. Yes the rank 27 player is favored against the rank 17 player, so that must be an incredible investment opportunity.

And its also worth noting that Huk (rank 25) is perceved as 72-28 favourite against Iaguz (rank 26). So that must also be an opportunity for a great value bet if one really believes those two players are even in skill.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
May 13 2016 21:04 GMT
#54
On May 14 2016 05:24 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
Like it or not but mentality is part of competing and is part of the reason championship calibre players are who they are.
Pure skill isn't everything you need to be a tournament winner.


Problem is when you reason tournament wins with better mentality without actually looking and analyzing the games nor basing your assesment from statistical data.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Hydra has any type of "winning mentality" that means we should credit him further than his actual skill level.

This is the same type og logic that made an esport-journalist rank Neeb as a tier-2 player below Violet and Harstem at Dreamhack Austin.

And it's also the same type of flawed logic that made TL predict Ptitdrogo as the 3rd best player in one of the last tournaments when he clearly wasn't anywhere no there.

It's just bad analysis from people confusing correlation with causation. '

Anyway, with regards to Hydra's actual skill level, he is ranked as the best player along with Nerchio according to Aligulac, so there is no problem there. But please stop with the goddamn lazy buzzword-spamming pseudoanalysis.

Well yes i agree that it cannot be the only argument, sure. I just thought you wanna neglect this factor completely, which apparently isn't the case.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
May 13 2016 21:09 GMT
#55
After all the false predictions, it looks like 2016 might finally be the Year of Harstem™.


This sure cracked me up! :D

Good writing overall, can't wait for the matches!
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
May 13 2016 21:11 GMT
#56
On May 14 2016 05:36 Hider wrote:
If one continues to believe that Scarlett and Iaguz are ranked fairly, then I suggest that one put money on where their mouth is.

Because right the bookmakers imply that Scarlett is favored against Firecake. Yes the rank 27 player is favored against the rank 17 player, so that must be an incredible investment opportunity.

And its also worth noting that Huk (rank 25) is perceved as 72-28 favourite against Iaguz (rank 26). So that must also be an opportunity for a great value bet if one really believes those two players are even in skill.


It's a power rank, not an analysis of their chances in a head to head against any other player, or their chances in the tournament given the bracket.
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
May 13 2016 21:13 GMT
#57
On May 14 2016 01:24 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 23:58 Charoisaur wrote:
scarlett is pretty much a wildcard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets far in this tournament but she basically has no results in LotV so far so there's no reason to rank her higher.
potential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that.

edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.


Snute already won a tournament in LotV.


Which one was that? I must have missed it...
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
May 13 2016 21:21 GMT
#58
On May 14 2016 05:36 Hider wrote:
If one continues to believe that Scarlett and Iaguz are ranked fairly, then I suggest that one put money on where their mouth is.

Because right the bookmakers imply that Scarlett is favored against Firecake. Yes the rank 27 player is favored against the rank 17 player, so that must be an incredible investment opportunity.

And its also worth noting that Huk (rank 25) is perceved as 72-28 favourite against Iaguz (rank 26). So that must also be an opportunity for a great value bet if one really believes those two players are even in skill.


Arguing that a rank X player should beat a lower ranked player / lose to a higher ranked player is a complete fallacy. Take Drogo for instance, who's had OK PvP and PvZ when I've watched him this year, and garbage PvT since the adept nerf. Clearly just because he's ranked below a couple protoss / zerg doesn't mean he should be expected to lose to them; nor necessarily does it mean that he should be expected to beat lower ranked terrans. As with everything, there has to be compromise.

That's not to say I agree with the list; even though I did some of the writing I can't stress enough that it's Soularion's personal list and we've all had plenty of arguments about it prior to posting. Personally I feel that top 5 is mostly correct, even though I'd bump Nerchio to #5, and that there's too little data and too much inconsistency in the scene to be fully confident of anything below that.

Sure, you can tier things, but there will always be arguments and counterarguments, especially when there are 10 or so people qualified here yet to attend any meaningful tournaments in LotV. It's all a guessing game really at the low end. Personally, I'm really not arguing either way here; I put no faith in online results at all since I don't watch them.

On May 13 2016 22:55 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
He’ll be horribly shown up at an event, and blitz his way through the next,


Sounds like a cool story, but I don't remember that this is actually true. If anything I remember Polt as someone who always shows up at a high consistency. His atrocious performance vs Firecake is not something that I remember having seen before.

Also given that Polt has lots the last few series vs Neeb and the last series vs Puck, I don't believe you can justify him at #1. I am not sure I would even have him at top 5.


RBNA into MLG is one of the best examples I can think of. 1-6 against Scarlett in one day playing pretty ineffective standard bio vs muta / ling / bane after the mine nerfs; next day mixes it up (albeit playing one incredible standard game iirc).

It's the mentality and willingness to change when things are going wrong that I respect
WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
May 13 2016 21:23 GMT
#59
On May 14 2016 06:13 BaneRiders wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2016 01:24 Musicus wrote:
On May 13 2016 23:58 Charoisaur wrote:
scarlett is pretty much a wildcard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets far in this tournament but she basically has no results in LotV so far so there's no reason to rank her higher.
potential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that.

edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.


Snute already won a tournament in LotV.


Which one was that? I must have missed it...


Can't remember the name but it was a chinese one with JD and Lilbow. Plus archon mode stuff. JD/FlaSh archon hype!
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
May 13 2016 21:30 GMT
#60
On May 14 2016 06:23 Phredxor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2016 06:13 BaneRiders wrote:
On May 14 2016 01:24 Musicus wrote:
On May 13 2016 23:58 Charoisaur wrote:
scarlett is pretty much a wildcard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets far in this tournament but she basically has no results in LotV so far so there's no reason to rank her higher.
potential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that.

edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.


Snute already won a tournament in LotV.


Which one was that? I must have missed it...


Can't remember the name but it was a chinese one with JD and Lilbow. Plus archon mode stuff. JD/FlaSh archon hype!


This event: (Wiki)GPL 2015 International Challenge
Soularion
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Canada2764 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-13 23:48:08
May 13 2016 23:43 GMT
#61
On May 13 2016 23:15 Hider wrote:
Are you same its the same author who writes both articles? Let's look at the argument for rating Iaguz over Scarlett

Show nested quote +
He even beat Bails in a showmatch afterwards, which alongside his good performance in WCS prior pushes him up quite nicely.


Now let's look at the reasoning for Scarlett:

Show nested quote +
INnoVation, Ryung, Zoun, herO and Bomber. This matches her generally underwhelming performance throughout Legacy of the Void. A win over Elazer at WCS Shanghai was a welcome surprise, but even then, puCK knocked her out and stole the show.


So for some reason Scarlett's win over Elazer gets downplayed whereas Iaguz who basically only has beaten Australians througout LOTV and won one seires over a mediocore NA player - Bails - gets rewarded.

Talking about Bails, Scarlett is 11-5 over Bails over the last 3 months.

But for some reason, its problematic when Scarlett loses to Scarlett. I am sure Iaguz would beat Innovation and Ryung on the other hand.

These types of rankings are a recurring theme in TLs power rankings. Some stuff are just not a matter of opinion, but straight up wrong in every single way you can look at it.

Scarlett's win over Elazer is downplayed because it's the absolute height of her LotV performance and, even then, she got 3-0 rolled by puCK. It's a signature of her newfound inconsistency in my eyes, the fact that while she can draw an upset it's unlikely to become much more. Things such as her Kings of the North run or her consistent disappointment in Regionals make it hard to get behind her because she just hasn't gotten stuff together to get a big run through an event.

iaguz might be a little overrated, but my theory is that he showed he could dominate SEA and generally fits in as a Scarlett-tier NA player, but the last time he came to WCS he generally did better than expected so I ranked him optimistically while I ranked Scarlett down a bit from where you could. These things happen with strange regions like SEA or China and with players who have a lot of potential but little results like Scarlett, you have to make decisions which if made in a different way would shift the rankings quite a bit. I could've explained that better in the article, so my bad for that- but I hope you understand better now!

Also, a couple scattered points that I saw throughout the thread so far.

On Hydra winning Dreamhack Austin : Everyone that he beat, he placed above in the PR. I can't value a win over Neeb/MaSa because even though they're very good there's an unknown quality to them where as Polt and Snute have been very good at showing up big to bigger events - something Hydra had a stutter with (see Leipzig and to a lesser extent Winter) - while Nerchio vs Hydra was a huge debate in the writer's room but ultimately I just found that Nerchio's level of consistency met with Hydra's tournament win pretty well. You could put Hydra > Nerchio and I wouldn't be butthurt about it, but it's worth noting that their head to head over LotV is 8-8 which fits with where they're at.

On Scarlett vs FireCake : Yeah, Scarlett has a pretty good chance at an upset, and I actually mention that in the writing. She's shown that she can win in ZvZ, and she has a good bracket for it. But then again, her beating FireCake would be an upset, just an upset that people are betting on because of matchup and because Scarlett does have a history behind her. Just not in LotV, and therefor not in this PR.
Writermaru pls
Rehio
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1718 Posts
May 14 2016 00:13 GMT
#62
On May 14 2016 06:30 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2016 06:23 Phredxor wrote:
On May 14 2016 06:13 BaneRiders wrote:
On May 14 2016 01:24 Musicus wrote:
On May 13 2016 23:58 Charoisaur wrote:
scarlett is pretty much a wildcard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets far in this tournament but she basically has no results in LotV so far so there's no reason to rank her higher.
potential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that.

edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.


Snute already won a tournament in LotV.


Which one was that? I must have missed it...


Can't remember the name but it was a chinese one with JD and Lilbow. Plus archon mode stuff. JD/FlaSh archon hype!


This event: (Wiki)GPL 2015 International Challenge


The event Lilbow was training for.
ossavi09
Profile Joined October 2014
Germany441 Posts
May 14 2016 00:20 GMT
#63
On May 14 2016 08:43 Soularion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 23:15 Hider wrote:
Are you same its the same author who writes both articles? Let's look at the argument for rating Iaguz over Scarlett

He even beat Bails in a showmatch afterwards, which alongside his good performance in WCS prior pushes him up quite nicely.


Now let's look at the reasoning for Scarlett:

INnoVation, Ryung, Zoun, herO and Bomber. This matches her generally underwhelming performance throughout Legacy of the Void. A win over Elazer at WCS Shanghai was a welcome surprise, but even then, puCK knocked her out and stole the show.


So for some reason Scarlett's win over Elazer gets downplayed whereas Iaguz who basically only has beaten Australians througout LOTV and won one seires over a mediocore NA player - Bails - gets rewarded.

Talking about Bails, Scarlett is 11-5 over Bails over the last 3 months.

But for some reason, its problematic when Scarlett loses to Scarlett. I am sure Iaguz would beat Innovation and Ryung on the other hand.

These types of rankings are a recurring theme in TLs power rankings. Some stuff are just not a matter of opinion, but straight up wrong in every single way you can look at it.

Scarlett's win over Elazer is downplayed because it's the absolute height of her LotV performance and, even then, she got 3-0 rolled by puCK. It's a signature of her newfound inconsistency in my eyes, the fact that while she can draw an upset it's unlikely to become much more. Things such as her Kings of the North run or her consistent disappointment in Regionals make it hard to get behind her because she just hasn't gotten stuff together to get a big run through an event.

iaguz might be a little overrated, but my theory is that he showed he could dominate SEA and generally fits in as a Scarlett-tier NA player, but the last time he came to WCS he generally did better than expected so I ranked him optimistically while I ranked Scarlett down a bit from where you could. These things happen with strange regions like SEA or China and with players who have a lot of potential but little results like Scarlett, you have to make decisions which if made in a different way would shift the rankings quite a bit. I could've explained that better in the article, so my bad for that- but I hope you understand better now!

Also, a couple scattered points that I saw throughout the thread so far.

On Hydra winning Dreamhack Austin : Everyone that he beat, he placed above in the PR. I can't value a win over Neeb/MaSa because even though they're very good there's an unknown quality to them where as Polt and Snute have been very good at showing up big to bigger events - something Hydra had a stutter with (see Leipzig and to a lesser extent Winter) - while Nerchio vs Hydra was a huge debate in the writer's room but ultimately I just found that Nerchio's level of consistency met with Hydra's tournament win pretty well. You could put Hydra > Nerchio and I wouldn't be butthurt about it, but it's worth noting that their head to head over LotV is 8-8 which fits with where they're at.

On Scarlett vs FireCake : Yeah, Scarlett has a pretty good chance at an upset, and I actually mention that in the writing. She's shown that she can win in ZvZ, and she has a good bracket for it. But then again, her beating FireCake would be an upset, just an upset that people are betting on because of matchup and because Scarlett does have a history behind her. Just not in LotV, and therefor not in this PR.


in the last month Firecake barely beat CatZ 3-2, lost 0-2 to Nedi, 1-3 to Denver and even 0-2 to TLO; His ZvZ is kind of horrible at the moment, I think it would be a huge surprise if he would be able to beat scarlett
Comedy
Profile Joined March 2016
456 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 00:23:32
May 14 2016 00:22 GMT
#64
On May 14 2016 06:21 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
I put no faith in online results at all since I don't watch them.


just because you don't watch somethign doesn't mean it doesn't happen. wtf?

if you don't watch online results don't write articles about starcraft players/tournaments/skill/events etc.?
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
May 14 2016 00:31 GMT
#65
It's a bit odd to say you don't value Hydras win over Neeb when you ranked Neeb so high isn't it?
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
May 14 2016 00:34 GMT
#66
On May 14 2016 09:22 Comedy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2016 06:21 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
I put no faith in online results at all since I don't watch them.


just because you don't watch somethign doesn't mean it doesn't happen. wtf?

if you don't watch online results don't write articles about starcraft players/tournaments/skill/events etc.?


Hey, feel free to write them yourself if you belive he is not qualify...

Lets keep it polite it is only a power rank done by someone nice (or passionate) enough to give time to write it for everyone else.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
May 14 2016 00:37 GMT
#67
A lot of people don't take online into consideration. I mean Zest just got rekt in two online series and he's easily considered the best player in the world atm.
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
May 14 2016 01:24 GMT
#68
On May 14 2016 09:22 Comedy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2016 06:21 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
I put no faith in online results at all since I don't watch them.


just because you don't watch somethign doesn't mean it doesn't happen. wtf?

if you don't watch online results don't write articles about starcraft players/tournaments/skill/events etc.?


There's so much context that goes unseen in online matches that it's impossible to judge them purely by the result. People hide strats, people effectively throw to focus on different competitions, people play without the pressure of LAN.
There's no way you can possibly judge a match just by a result. So unless I watch an online match, I don't really give it too much weight because I don't know the context either way. Of course, it's a bit different if there's an overwhelming trend behind it such as Nerchio's record.

I write about the Korean scene, so I watch literally every match in the Korean leagues / Proleague, as well as Korean online matches when I have time, which is why there's not enough time in the day to take interest in the foreign scene. It would be nice if you could criticise my writing rather than me personally.
WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
Comedy
Profile Joined March 2016
456 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 01:40:20
May 14 2016 01:35 GMT
#69
On May 14 2016 10:24 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2016 09:22 Comedy wrote:
On May 14 2016 06:21 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
I put no faith in online results at all since I don't watch them.


just because you don't watch somethign doesn't mean it doesn't happen. wtf?

if you don't watch online results don't write articles about starcraft players/tournaments/skill/events etc.?


There's so much context that goes unseen in online matches that it's impossible to judge them purely by the result. People hide strats, people effectively throw to focus on different competitions, people play without the pressure of LAN.
There's no way you can possibly judge a match just by a result. So unless I watch an online match, I don't really give it too much weight because I don't know the context either way. Of course, it's a bit different if there's an overwhelming trend behind it such as Nerchio's record.

I write about the Korean scene, so I watch literally every match in the Korean leagues / Proleague, as well as Korean online matches when I have time, which is why there's not enough time in the day to take interest in the foreign scene. It would be nice if you could criticise my writing rather than me personally.


No problem whatsoever with you as a person.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you did some of the writing and argueing about the power rank, so I just assumed it's something you do more often. That's why your comment came off really strange to me because I would hope that those who want to write about the foreign scene, have a natural interest in the scene and the players that for them it's fun to watch online tours. :D

When it comes to the foreign scene, I think that following online results and trends are by far the best way to know who is playing well, who might be breaking out soon, and who is developing a lot as a player.

The 'hiding strategies' and context you speak about it is something that does exist, but in such a small margin that you cannot use it as an arguement. Most pro players want to win every game, and every tournament they enter. The only real thing to consider is LAN pressure, but it's something that playing online tournaments can also help with. The more you play meaningfull matches the more practiced you become in dealing with nerves. Although yes, offline at a stadium will always be a different ball-game to some degree. And yes, you absolutely have to actually see the games to be able to analyze skill-levels, gameplay, etc.

I personally enjoy reading articles about the foreign scene much more than I do about Koreans, because I am genuinely interested in the scene and the people rather than just watching for strategies/skill level that I can apply to my own game, so I've missed your previous work. For that I apologize.
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 01:50:54
May 14 2016 01:45 GMT
#70
On May 14 2016 10:35 Comedy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2016 10:24 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
On May 14 2016 09:22 Comedy wrote:
On May 14 2016 06:21 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
I put no faith in online results at all since I don't watch them.


just because you don't watch somethign doesn't mean it doesn't happen. wtf?

if you don't watch online results don't write articles about starcraft players/tournaments/skill/events etc.?


There's so much context that goes unseen in online matches that it's impossible to judge them purely by the result. People hide strats, people effectively throw to focus on different competitions, people play without the pressure of LAN.
There's no way you can possibly judge a match just by a result. So unless I watch an online match, I don't really give it too much weight because I don't know the context either way. Of course, it's a bit different if there's an overwhelming trend behind it such as Nerchio's record.

I write about the Korean scene, so I watch literally every match in the Korean leagues / Proleague, as well as Korean online matches when I have time, which is why there's not enough time in the day to take interest in the foreign scene. It would be nice if you could criticise my writing rather than me personally.


No problem whatsoever with you as a person.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you did some of the writing and argueing about the power rank, so I just assumed it's something you do more often. That's why your comment came off really strange to me because I would hope that those who want to write about the foreign scene, have a natural interest in the scene and the players that for them it's fun to watch online tours. :D

When it comes to the foreign scene, I think that following online results and trends are by far the best way to know who is playing well, who might be breaking out soon, and who is developing a lot as a player.

The 'hiding strategies' and context you speak about it is something that does exist, but in such a small margin that you cannot use it as an arguement. Most pro players want to win every game, and every tournament they enter. The only real thing to consider is LAN pressure, but it's something that playing online tournaments can also help with. The more you play meaningfull matches the more practiced you become in dealing with nerves. Although yes, offline at a stadium will always be a different ball-game to some degree.



No worries, it was a bit glib really.

I do watch as much of the major foreign LANs as possible, but it's more of a time issue sadly what with real life / real job. Soularion is the major WCS fan in TL Writers, and as mentioned we let him do the ranking; I just helped with some writing so we could hit the deadline.

I guess it's more that I put much more faith in one breakout performance on LAN than a couple upsets over big players online, and it'll take an overwhelming trend before I start to put faith behind the results. Online, there's always that ambiguity there—famously Polt has said in the past that he never uses his tournament strats online. Obviously there are people who do take every map online seriously like Snute / Nerchio, but it's just something I deal with much more sceptically in general.

If you're that interested in WCS, you're always welcome to apply

Edit: As an aside, can people actually tell the difference between all of our writing styles? Obviously I'd hope most people can spot a stu article from miles away, but what about the rest of us?
WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
May 14 2016 03:30 GMT
#71
On May 14 2016 10:45 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2016 10:35 Comedy wrote:
On May 14 2016 10:24 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
On May 14 2016 09:22 Comedy wrote:
On May 14 2016 06:21 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
I put no faith in online results at all since I don't watch them.


just because you don't watch somethign doesn't mean it doesn't happen. wtf?

if you don't watch online results don't write articles about starcraft players/tournaments/skill/events etc.?


There's so much context that goes unseen in online matches that it's impossible to judge them purely by the result. People hide strats, people effectively throw to focus on different competitions, people play without the pressure of LAN.
There's no way you can possibly judge a match just by a result. So unless I watch an online match, I don't really give it too much weight because I don't know the context either way. Of course, it's a bit different if there's an overwhelming trend behind it such as Nerchio's record.

I write about the Korean scene, so I watch literally every match in the Korean leagues / Proleague, as well as Korean online matches when I have time, which is why there's not enough time in the day to take interest in the foreign scene. It would be nice if you could criticise my writing rather than me personally.


No problem whatsoever with you as a person.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you did some of the writing and argueing about the power rank, so I just assumed it's something you do more often. That's why your comment came off really strange to me because I would hope that those who want to write about the foreign scene, have a natural interest in the scene and the players that for them it's fun to watch online tours. :D

When it comes to the foreign scene, I think that following online results and trends are by far the best way to know who is playing well, who might be breaking out soon, and who is developing a lot as a player.

The 'hiding strategies' and context you speak about it is something that does exist, but in such a small margin that you cannot use it as an arguement. Most pro players want to win every game, and every tournament they enter. The only real thing to consider is LAN pressure, but it's something that playing online tournaments can also help with. The more you play meaningfull matches the more practiced you become in dealing with nerves. Although yes, offline at a stadium will always be a different ball-game to some degree.



Edit: As an aside, can people actually tell the difference between all of our writing styles? Obviously I'd hope most people can spot a stu article from miles away, but what about the rest of us?


when it's funny it's obvs lichter
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
May 14 2016 06:00 GMT
#72
On May 14 2016 06:30 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2016 06:23 Phredxor wrote:
On May 14 2016 06:13 BaneRiders wrote:
On May 14 2016 01:24 Musicus wrote:
On May 13 2016 23:58 Charoisaur wrote:
scarlett is pretty much a wildcard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets far in this tournament but she basically has no results in LotV so far so there's no reason to rank her higher.
potential alone isn't a sufficient reason for that.

edit: hydra should be above nerchio and snute just because he knows how to win tournaments.
experience matters a lot in those situations
snutes and nerchios last tournament wins were in wol.


Snute already won a tournament in LotV.


Which one was that? I must have missed it...


Can't remember the name but it was a chinese one with JD and Lilbow. Plus archon mode stuff. JD/FlaSh archon hype!


This event: (Wiki)GPL 2015 International Challenge


Thanks!!
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9371 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 09:41:48
May 14 2016 09:36 GMT
#73
There's so much context that goes unseen in online matches that it's impossible to judge them purely by the result. People hide strats, people effectively throw to focus on different competitions, people play without the pressure of LAN.
There's no way you can possibly judge a match just by a result. So unless I watch an online match, I don't really give it too much weight because I don't know the context either way. Of course, it's a bit different if there's an overwhelming trend behind it such as Nerchio's record.


The correct approach is to take into account every result but weight them differently. And when 90%+ of games played by a lot of foreign players are online, ignoring those results is a gigantic error.

People hide strats, people effectively throw to focus on different competitions,


This sounds like something that very rarely happens. Do you have any evidence to assume this is a frequent occurance?
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9371 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 10:16:11
May 14 2016 09:55 GMT
#74
Scarlett's win over Elazer is downplayed because it's the absolute height of her LotV performance and, even then, she got 3-0 rolled by puCK. It's a signature of her newfound inconsistency in my eyes,


Puck is ranked # 13, so I don't think its a big issue losing to him once. Hydra also lost to bo5's in a row against Puck. And Scarlett actually beat Puck 2-1 last week.

The inconsistency issue is more related to her playing a lot of games and when you play a lot of games, you will sometimes lose against slightly worse players.

iaguz might be a little overrated, but my theory is that he showed he could dominate SEA and generally fits in as a Scarlett-tier NA player, but the last time he came to WCS he generally did better than expected so I ranked him optimistically while I ranked Scarlett down a bit from where you could. These things happen with strange regions like SEA or China and with players who have a lot of potential but little results like Scarlett, you have to make decisions which if made in a different way would shift the rankings quite a bit. I could've explained that better in the article, so my bad for that- but I hope you understand better now!


I am glad you admit he is overrated. With regards to his "dominance" in the SEA region, 1-8 against PIG says everything. He can surely beat alot of players at master skill level, but when he starts to get into the "semi-pro"/high GM level, he has lots of problems.

And my issue was how weird it seemed that you gave him credit for beating Bails 3-2 when Scarlett has an 11-5 record against him. That made it almost seem as if 2 different authors wrote those pieces as Scarlett and Bails were ranked on different parameters. Like if Scarlett losses to Puck --> She is bad. If Iaguz loses to Pig --> Let's ignore that and praise him for beating a medicore NA player and master level SEA players.

@ Peak argument

Looking at Scarlett's aligulac rating, she has been relatively stable at around 1850 over the last few months.
jy_9876543210
Profile Joined March 2016
265 Posts
May 14 2016 13:57 GMT
#75
OH MY XXX GOD this game is so STRANGE!
Phase 1: F2    Phase 2: A   Phase 3: Profit!
kaby
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation195 Posts
May 14 2016 14:20 GMT
#76
that forced draw makes no sence
JokerAi
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany142 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 14:43:31
May 14 2016 14:27 GMT
#77
100% Admin fail in game 3 this was 100% polt lose and the admin forced a coundown for no reason at all.
You never will be see a so bad decision from Admins in Korea at all.
http://www.twitch.tv/jokersfun
FlashVanMaster
Profile Joined January 2016
21 Posts
May 14 2016 14:41 GMT
#78
#Strange Won vs POlt see replay 5th game strange WON SEE
Medivh
Profile Joined January 2016
2 Posts
May 14 2016 14:42 GMT
#79
#Strange Won vs POlt see replay 5th game strange WON SEE!!!
ykcyc
Profile Joined May 2016
Russian Federation1 Post
May 14 2016 14:42 GMT
#80
#Strange_win
Traitorwtf
Profile Joined May 2016
Russian Federation15 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 14:50:42
May 14 2016 14:44 GMT
#81
I'm from Russia and I feel soooo salty atm.
There is no way I can call it fair draw...
And also that attitude from foreigners what makes me even more sad. Smth like "Hahaha, eat that, russian scum, you deserve it."
Where is that coming from? We all people, we don't chose country to be born, we all love SC2 and doing the same thing. Please, be a little more tolerant. Thank you

Also, somehow, I lost respect to Polt. I know it's totally not his fault. But still...

JudicatorAldaris
Profile Joined May 2016
2 Posts
May 14 2016 14:47 GMT
#82
#StrangeWon
Thanks for your wise decision, DH organizers! Russian community thanks you for justice!
Rowneg
Profile Joined May 2016
5 Posts
May 14 2016 14:48 GMT
#83
#Strange winner. Why rematch? Why TIMER in tournament? Where are admins comments? Where public information about that MADNESS?

You think that you cool and prestige tournament, Dreamhack? Looks like not, in fact.

Give for us information!

From twitter: "@nV_Polt, gg wp from Russia, bro."
Rehio
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1718 Posts
May 14 2016 14:48 GMT
#84
Lol, are all the Russian folks being directed to complain in this thread or something?


And no, the countdown wasn't forced by an admin. It's an in-game feature to prevent draws. It's been there since Wings of Liberty.
True_Spike
Profile Joined July 2004
Poland3417 Posts
May 14 2016 14:50 GMT
#85
Wow, I didn't even know this was going on.
jeri
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany335 Posts
May 14 2016 14:52 GMT
#86
On May 14 2016 23:48 Rehio wrote:
Lol, are all the Russian folks being directed to complain in this thread or something?


And no, the countdown wasn't forced by an admin. It's an in-game feature to prevent draws. It's been there since Wings of Liberty.



this timer is for ladder games only, why the fuck it was activated in a tournament game? another fail from many fails from the admins of dreamhack, you never see that bs in korea and thats why they are better than the rest of the world on the other side...
"The voices are back. Excellent." Dexter Morgan
Rowneg
Profile Joined May 2016
5 Posts
May 14 2016 14:54 GMT
#87
On May 14 2016 23:48 Rehio wrote:
And no, the countdown wasn't forced by an admin. It's an in-game feature to prevent draws. It's been there since Wings of Liberty.

That feature should be disabled in tournaments (and was disabled some time ago).
True_Spike
Profile Joined July 2004
Poland3417 Posts
May 14 2016 14:57 GMT
#88
What the fuck is bunny doing?
dancing-elf
Profile Joined May 2016
1 Post
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 15:02:17
May 14 2016 15:00 GMT
#89
Dreamhack admins are not doing their job... I remember MarineKing vs Parting game. GSTL admins 30 minutes were taking a decision. Dreamhack admins made the wrong custom game and made decision by 1 minutes without any reply to casters.
Maybe regame was only option in this situation. But admins not even think about something else.
Rowneg
Profile Joined May 2016
5 Posts
May 14 2016 15:05 GMT
#90
No one word in WCS about timer in tournament!
makishimaa
Profile Joined May 2016
1 Post
May 14 2016 15:10 GMT
#91
I am totally pissed of situation in 5th set Polt vs Strange!
I saw the game. I saw the monet when Polt got 1 medivac and 5 marines and factory as the only one building.At that moment Strange got 6-7 stalkers, 1-2 immortalls, 2-3 sentries, 2-4 zealots 1 void ray as anti air killer and a lot of structures. Then I saw all Strange's stalckers atack all Polt's forces.
But then some ridicolous stuff happens. The game has just been TIED!!!!!!! because of no damage rule.
Dear organisators stuff!!!!!
Why this rule is working on WCS series tournament!
Why do you declare regame on autorian manner and say nothing to russian language casters when they asked your reasoning about this situation?
What is your reasoning on regame in this situation?
You have just pissed off all viewers on russian stream who saw Strange victory and then regame with no reasoning!
I believe those actions are cruciely painfull to all Starcraft 2 LotV community in such hard time with several matchfixing scandals!
i believe your actions dishonour Starcraft 2 LotV cybersport!
jeri
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany335 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 15:21:52
May 14 2016 15:19 GMT
#92
they probably didnt want polt to throw his game away to strange, so a regame was set (without telling anybody anything whatsoever about anything) he could easy bet against himself on this one and join life & yoda & co afterwards lolz

ps: sarcasm and ironie is included
"The voices are back. Excellent." Dexter Morgan
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 15:24:16
May 14 2016 15:22 GMT
#93
On May 14 2016 23:48 Rehio wrote:
Lol, are all the Russian folks being directed to complain in this thread or something?


And no, the countdown wasn't forced by an admin. It's an in-game feature to prevent draws. It's been there since Wings of Liberty.


Either that or one guy made many multis to complain. Either way its amusing.

Strange knew it was on a timer for the draw. It's his own fault for being passive as fuck.
FlashVanMaster
Profile Joined January 2016
21 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 15:28:11
May 14 2016 15:27 GMT
#94
On May 15 2016 00:22 Phredxor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2016 23:48 Rehio wrote:
Lol, are all the Russian folks being directed to complain in this thread or something?


And no, the countdown wasn't forced by an admin. It's an in-game feature to prevent draws. It's been there since Wings of Liberty.


Either that or one guy made many multis to complain. Either way its amusing.

Strange knew it was on a timer for the draw. It's his own fault for being passive as fuck.


THere is no rule of the timer in WCS Tournament

Draw is available ONLY If by sugesting by admins in the PAUSE
Current rule of the draw in WCS
Rowneg
Profile Joined May 2016
5 Posts
May 14 2016 15:29 GMT
#95
On May 15 2016 00:22 Phredxor wrote:
Strange knew it was on a timer for the draw. It's his own fault for being passive as fuck.

Are you ill with dyslexia?

No one word in WCS about timer in tournament!

That feature should be disabled in tournaments (and was disabled some time ago).

this timer is for ladder games only, why the fuck it was activated in a tournament game?

Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 15:31:59
May 14 2016 15:31 GMT
#96
Can't say I've read the entire WCS rulebook and i doubt you have either.

Strange knew it was happening during the game. Blame him for not going for the win.
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-14 15:34:23
May 14 2016 15:33 GMT
#97
On May 15 2016 00:29 Rowneg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2016 00:22 Phredxor wrote:
Strange knew it was on a timer for the draw. It's his own fault for being passive as fuck.

Are you ill with dyslexia?

Show nested quote +
No one word in WCS about timer in tournament!

Show nested quote +
That feature should be disabled in tournaments (and was disabled some time ago).

Show nested quote +
this timer is for ladder games only, why the fuck it was activated in a tournament game?


It's a well known in game feature, I think there is a rule in WCS that states that you are playing Starcraft 2 and since it's a Starcraft 2 game rule you don't have to say anything about it.
It is that simple. There is even a box telling you that you got x minutes left.
Why do you want to cheat just in order to get Strange to qualify by talking about WCS rules or whatever?
Win it fair ^^
WriterMaru
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
May 14 2016 15:39 GMT
#98
Strange should receive the money and WCS point he would have from a victory it would solve a lot of the problem and it would be a nice PR move from Blizzard. I don't think anyone would say he don't deserve it.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
May 14 2016 15:41 GMT
#99
On May 15 2016 00:39 Nakajin wrote:
Strange should receive the money and WCS point he would have from a victory it would solve a lot of the problem and it would be a nice PR move from Blizzard. I don't think anyone would say he don't deserve it.


Polt probably would.
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
May 14 2016 15:42 GMT
#100
On May 15 2016 00:41 Phredxor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2016 00:39 Nakajin wrote:
Strange should receive the money and WCS point he would have from a victory it would solve a lot of the problem and it would be a nice PR move from Blizzard. I don't think anyone would say he don't deserve it.


Polt probably would.


Well Polt got money wcs point and advance in the bracket it doesn't change anything for him.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Rowneg
Profile Joined May 2016
5 Posts
May 14 2016 15:49 GMT
#101
Show me smth about timer or GTFO: https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_entry_media/2v/2VNT5NG496601459889207362.pdf

User was banned for this post.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9371 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-15 14:21:19
May 15 2016 14:18 GMT
#102
I'm from Russia and I feel soooo salty atm.
There is no way I can call it fair draw...



Well glad you admit your bias. Maybe its time to let your feeling of nationalty behind you, and actually think about what's reasonable or not. But since you seem incapable of that, and instead base your opinions of what you want to be true, I have no sympathy with you.

So Step 1: Stop making assesments based on your feelings and try to be more objective.

Step 2: Also consider to not use misuse the foreigner term. It makes you seem like someone who thinks Russia is the center of the world.
rotta
Profile Joined December 2011
5585 Posts
May 15 2016 14:38 GMT
#103
Where does it say that the timer is only for ladder?
All I see is melee:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2053470/patch-120-now-live-1-11-2011
don't wall off against random
diabcockiful
Profile Joined January 2016
22 Posts
May 15 2016 15:14 GMT
#104
Why lilbow would be ranked over Ptitdrogo is asinine, as are many of these rankings. I know, I know, it's subjective and all that, but what has lilbow done since making it to blizzcon?
diabcockiful
Profile Joined January 2016
22 Posts
May 15 2016 15:42 GMT
#105
Polt at number 1? That's really funny...
cyantific
Profile Joined August 2015
1 Post
May 15 2016 20:05 GMT
#106
#STRANGE_WON
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
16:30
Mid Season Playoffs
MindelVK vs NicoractLIVE!
Krystianer vs Mixu
YoungYakov vs LunaSea
ShoWTimE vs GgMaChine
Percival vs NightPhoenix
davetesta117
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 522
ProTech91
BRAT_OK 85
IndyStarCraft 45
MindelVK 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 22808
Stork 309
firebathero 185
Dewaltoss 123
Shinee 67
Aegong 42
Rock 32
Movie 27
zelot 17
GoRush 13
[ Show more ]
HiyA 9
Stormgate
RushiSC109
Dota 2
Gorgc6830
qojqva2568
League of Legends
Dendi1229
Counter-Strike
fl0m2092
edward150
flusha103
Other Games
FrodaN1737
Beastyqt667
Grubby166
markeloff111
Mew2King92
Liquid`VortiX82
QueenE80
Trikslyr70
Chillindude50
ZombieGrub29
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 55
• Adnapsc2 31
• LUISG 17
• HeavenSC 8
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV308
League of Legends
• Jankos3223
• TFBlade1582
Other Games
• imaqtpie1074
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 43m
The PondCast
15h 43m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
HomeStory Cup
1d 16h
HomeStory Cup
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
SOOP
3 days
SHIN vs ByuN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
HomeStory Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV European League
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.