EPTCall to Action: May 10 Balance Test Map - Page 7
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
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Turb0Sw4g
74 Posts
On May 11 2016 20:07 PinoKotsBeer wrote: Sounds interesting to me, especially the thor change. The Cyclone lock on to thor would be a nice change. Thanks, buddy! On May 12 2016 01:48 JackONeill wrote: The only way to make the cyclone interesting and balanced is to remove the lock and make it a mech massable footman/damage dealer. This way mech could be, if this retarded tankivac was scraped, a balanced composition of cyclones, tanks, hellions, and SP/thor/WM support. Not a 400 turrets full tanks bullshit. I was thinking the same thing! Check out my suggestion (shamelessly quoted in the spoiler below). + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2016 19:50 Turb0Sw4g wrote: Here's my idea on how to distribute the responsibilities/ roles of Cyclone, Thor and Liberator:
I was also thinking about removing the transformation from the Viking and giving it to the Liberator (thus removing the Liberation zone and making the Viking AA only) accompanied with a cost reduction on the viking. But this seemed excessively design driven.  Any thoughts and/ or opinions are welcome! | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Don't want to burst your bubble but, while I do like it, I think it's fair to assume Blizz won't ever consider it because they already stated they want to make as few and small changes as possible. If it's just for the sake of theorycrafting then go ahead, I myself do it quite often too  Moving the lock-on to the Thor, I like that as well. | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
On May 12 2016 22:48 Salteador Neo wrote: ^ The idea of introducing some type of "mech marauder" for the factory was already brought up a couple times during beta I think, probably instead of the "new" cyclone . Don't want to burst your bubble but, while I do like it, I think it's fair to assume Blizz won't ever consider it because they already stated they want to make as few and small changes as possible. If it's just for the sake of theorycrafting then go ahead, I myself do it quite often too Moving the lock-on to the Thor, I like that as well.Before release they actually stated they would continue doing major overhauls. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On May 12 2016 23:47 B-royal wrote: Before release they actually stated they would continue doing major overhauls. Which was a complete lie. 5 months in, 1 terrible little patch. | ||
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ArmazingerZ
10 Posts
On May 12 2016 19:03 MockHamill wrote: Why not let the Thor have 2 modes like it had in HOTS? The current splash damage mode that can be used against Mutas and the new single damage mode with 35+15 damage that can be used against armoured air? That way Thors can be used against capital ships without being worthless against Mutas. I see no downside to this since Thors will still have clear weakness like slow to produce, low mobility, easily swarmed by low supply units etc. Or does this make too much sense so it cant be implemented? Terran has enough muta solutions, besides Thor is too slow to be one. If Thor need any buff I think it would be better that they would be able to deal with Ultras, which is a real problem in the matchup, not the mutas | ||
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Zulu23
Germany132 Posts
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DalaiiLameR
42 Posts
On May 13 2016 01:55 Zulu23 wrote: The changes on protoss and zerg don't seem to change a lot, but the liberator gets crushed now by corruptors. It feels like they are no option anymore vs. a zerg playing spire. well, libs are still good against muta. the patch just stops the terran from massing liberators against everything. if the zerg opens up with mutas, its still reasonable to build like 4-5 liberators for AA. if the zerg goes for corruptor as a response, the terran has to go for vikings.. or marines.. or thors.. or etc.. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
On May 13 2016 02:03 DalaiiLameR wrote: well, libs are still good against muta. the patch just stops the terran from massing liberators against everything. if the zerg opens up with mutas, its still reasonable to build like 4-5 liberators for AA. if the zerg goes for corruptor as a response, the terran has to go for vikings.. or marines.. or thors.. or etc.. Or Ravens? Seeker Missile is still deadly against Corruptor flocks, sure top Koreans know how to have perfect micro against it but everyone definitely isn't them, so tech up Terrans, your late game units aren't as bad as you think! ...Okay we all know Battlecruisers are total shit T__T | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
TvZ will be even harder than before.. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
On May 13 2016 02:15 PinoKotsBeer wrote: TvZ: just open with roach ravager (strong enough for a lot anyway) turtle into mass corruptor lurker and tech to broodlord, ultralisk viper. GG TvZ will be even harder than before.. Anytime I see a Terran player try to turtle against Roach/Ravager and just sit there they get owned. Anytime I see them start double prong dropping, unless the Zerg has stellar multitasking it usually looks pretty hilarious. All things in a vacuum of course though. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On May 13 2016 02:08 Beelzebub1 wrote: Or Ravens? Seeker Missile is still deadly against Corruptor flocks, sure top Koreans know how to have perfect micro against it but everyone definitely isn't them, so tech up Terrans, your late game units aren't as bad as you think! ...Okay we all know Battlecruisers are total shit T__T The seeker is more of a zoning spell that anything else. It's a way to say "if you enagage right now you're gonna die". So in HOTS it was OP because it was only 75 energy meaning 2,5 missiles per raven. Now it's 125 energy you waste just to deny an engage. You invest 100/200 to deny an engage for 5 seconds. Parasitic bomb works in a different way (i'm anticipating the comparaison) because you're sure to deal at least 60 dmg. However, the PDD is still good. And the new turret is pretty decent in some scenarii. What bothers me the most is that lib nerf means that the ONLY different way for terran to play a matchup is dead. Now you're completely forced to play marine tankivacs TvT, bio tank (or maybe bio mine but it's kind of a gamble) => bio liberators in TvZ, and bio mine liberators in TvP. So much diversity wow it's amazing. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
On May 13 2016 03:13 JackONeill wrote: The seeker is more of a zoning spell that anything else. It's a way to say "if you enagage right now you're gonna die". So in HOTS it was OP because it was only 75 energy meaning 2,5 missiles per raven. Now it's 125 energy you waste just to deny an engage. You invest 100/200 to deny an engage for 5 seconds. Parasitic bomb works in a different way (i'm anticipating the comparaison) because you're sure to deal at least 60 dmg. However, the PDD is still good. And the new turret is pretty decent in some scenarii. What bothers me the most is that lib nerf means that the ONLY different way for terran to play a matchup is dead. Now you're completely forced to play marine tankivacs TvT, bio tank (or maybe bio mine but it's kind of a gamble) => bio liberators in TvZ, and bio mine liberators in TvP. So much diversity wow it's amazing. I'm still in favor of making cyclones more general purpose factory footmen so diversity could have a chance T_T | ||
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terrantosaur
42 Posts
I simply cannot understand the majority of these changes. A cyclone is now the same supply as 2 ravens. Don't autoturrets do more damage that the cyclone? Fine to nerf Liberator but it is Terran's only solution to late game P & Z. What, pray, should a Terran build now? Thor nerf just reinforces Terran's inability to deal with air (following Lib nerf). All the changes make Mech even less viable. I agree with those who've commented above about forcing Terran to hit some small timing attack window before late game. It's a fucking joke. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Turb0Sw4g
74 Posts
On May 13 2016 04:55 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Diversity from a warhound-like unit is lack of a diversity as it will simply out compete everything else. Fast, tough, long range, good against all units types and powerful. Sounds a bit like liberator, and we all know how that turned out. There must be some drawbacks. The only thing I can think of is to make such a unit high tier, or to make it so it only have those characteristics through a series of upgrades or directly synergistic unit same way with marines and their ups and medivacs, only that marines are not good against everything that isn't splash anymore. Who's talking about a Warhound-like unit? The Warhound was terribly imbalanced. All upside; no downside. Check the stats (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Warhound):
The Cyclone should obviously not fall into the same trap. But, in its current state it simply doesn't have a role. Mech lacks a basic ground damage dealer. So, why not make the Cyclone the unit which fills that role? On May 12 2016 22:48 Salteador Neo wrote: ^ The idea of introducing some type of "mech marauder" for the factory was already brought up a couple times during beta I think, probably instead of the "new" cyclone . Don't want to burst your bubble but, while I do like it, I think it's fair to assume Blizz won't ever consider it because they already stated they want to make as few and small changes as possible. If it's just for the sake of theorycrafting then go ahead, I myself do it quite often too Moving the lock-on to the Thor, I like that as well.Well, I guess we're here to drop some ideas and hope they are getting picked up at some point. At least partially or by spirit. I agree completely that most changes posted here are too fundamental to have a realistic chance of being adopted. I still want to see shield battery on the Nexus but it's probably never gonna happen. :D Still fun coming up with ideas for the game no matter what! | ||
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Rowrin
United States280 Posts
I honestly can't justify it. I welcome the changes, but I still don't think I'll use more than 1 of the unit in TvT if at all. If I want a scout / harass unit, I'd just get a reaper and not delay my starport tech or upgrades. Imo, just scrap the lock on ability all together, make it a 2-3 supply 125/25 or 125/50 reactor-able unit that can support the siege tank against units the hellion/bat is otherwise not good at. | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
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