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DeepMind sets AlphaGo's sights on SCII - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 16 Next All
aQuaSC
Profile Joined August 2011
717 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-04 18:45:11
November 04 2016 18:44 GMT
#201
I'm worried but patient about any SC2 announcements regarding wcs
TL+ Member
Endymion
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States3701 Posts
November 04 2016 18:50 GMT
#202
what was his id in bw???
Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable
Jono7272
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom6330 Posts
November 04 2016 18:52 GMT
#203
Awesome, excited for this!
Innovation | Flash | Mvp | Byun | TY
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
November 04 2016 19:00 GMT
#204
https://deepmind.com/blog/deepmind-and-blizzard-release-starcraft-ii-ai-research-environment/

They posted this blog. I'm happy they mentioned an APM cap.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 04 2016 19:16 GMT
#205
Face Johnnyrecco in WoL, prove bl/infestor is the ultimate strat
Moderator
SCHWARZENEGGER
Profile Joined July 2016
206 Posts
November 04 2016 19:21 GMT
#206
what if AI will be too smart and refuse to play terran?
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 04 2016 19:24 GMT
#207
On November 05 2016 04:21 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:
what if AI will be too smart and refuse to play terran?


shit it really is smarter than all of us.
Moderator
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9377 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-04 19:29:42
November 04 2016 19:28 GMT
#208
On November 05 2016 04:21 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:
what if AI will be too smart and refuse to play terran?


What if AI figures out the best way to win is to complain about balance on balance forums in order to manipulate blizzard into patching the game in a certain way.

Or what about developing memes such as Gom TvT in order to make sure blizzard doesn't buff terran/nerf zerg for the next 2 years no matter how needed it is.
Fran_
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1024 Posts
November 04 2016 19:30 GMT
#209
Right timing, they will play no one, since no pro will be left in Korea.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-04 20:57:37
November 04 2016 20:57 GMT
#210
It's not the "real time" aspect that's hard, real time for powerful computers is nothing more than a very fast series of turns (I can assure you that's literally how that's going to be implemented ;D).
I think the "incomplete information" part of the game is what's going to be tough. But if they at least give the computer perfect mechanics, it should be feasible to win against most pro-players most of the time. How often will be the measure of this AI project's success.
Dumbledore
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden725 Posts
November 04 2016 21:01 GMT
#211
On November 05 2016 05:57 ZenithM wrote:
It's not the "real time" aspect that's hard, real time for powerful computers is nothing more than a very fast series of turns (I can assure you that's literally how that's going to be implemented ;D).
I think the "incomplete information" part of the game is what's going to be tough. But if they at least give the computer perfect mechanics, it should be feasible to win against most pro-players most of the time. How often will be the measure of this AI project's success.


Learning algorithms thrive in situations with randomness, so it will probably thrive with unknown information.
What makes it difficult is the massive state space that Sc2 has compared to board games.
Have a nice day ;)
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12172 Posts
November 04 2016 21:01 GMT
#212
On November 05 2016 04:28 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2016 04:21 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:
what if AI will be too smart and refuse to play terran?


Or what about developing memes such as Gom TvT in order to make sure blizzard doesn't buff terran/nerf zerg for the next 2 years no matter how needed it is.


Reality: prime developer of memes since 2010
No will to live, no wish to die
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-04 21:14:55
November 04 2016 21:11 GMT
#213
On November 05 2016 06:01 Dumbledore wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2016 05:57 ZenithM wrote:
It's not the "real time" aspect that's hard, real time for powerful computers is nothing more than a very fast series of turns (I can assure you that's literally how that's going to be implemented ;D).
I think the "incomplete information" part of the game is what's going to be tough. But if they at least give the computer perfect mechanics, it should be feasible to win against most pro-players most of the time. How often will be the measure of this AI project's success.


Learning algorithms thrive in situations with randomness, so it will probably thrive with unknown information.
What makes it difficult is the massive state space that Sc2 has compared to board games.

I think they will rather easily find ways to smartly discretize the search space. What I meant by "incomplete information" is that it may happen that in a certain state of balance of SC2, Build A beats Build B no matter what you do. It would look silly if that AI got eliminated by a couple of cheeses that somehow hard counters its build 2 times in a row.

But I think SC2 might be stable enough that there aren't many of these scenarios, if at all.

Edit: And in my humble experience (I don't know what's your own experience with machine learning), I wouldn't say with a straight face that "learning algorithms thrive in randomness situations". The less random my test set is, the happier I am :D
MyLovelyLurker
Profile Joined April 2007
France756 Posts
November 04 2016 22:22 GMT
#214
On November 05 2016 06:01 Dumbledore wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2016 05:57 ZenithM wrote:
It's not the "real time" aspect that's hard, real time for powerful computers is nothing more than a very fast series of turns (I can assure you that's literally how that's going to be implemented ;D).
I think the "incomplete information" part of the game is what's going to be tough. But if they at least give the computer perfect mechanics, it should be feasible to win against most pro-players most of the time. How often will be the measure of this AI project's success.


Learning algorithms thrive in situations with randomness, so it will probably thrive with unknown information.
What makes it difficult is the massive state space that Sc2 has compared to board games.


Not really, the 'partially observable' part definitely makes reinforcement learning harder. Two bits strike me as really really hard. The infrequent rewards part ( if you define a reward function as per the number of adverse units killed minus yours, for instance ) makes it hard, as this function might not move for the first five minutes of the game, so you don't get that many training examples. The planning aspect as well, since the AI will have to infer series of increasingly complex concepts, from 'click the mouse' to 'fake proxy gate into expanding'.

Great that they're outsourcing this, excited to try some algorithms when it's out.
"I just say, it doesn't matter win or lose, I just love Starcraft 2, I love this game, I love this stage, just play like in practice" - TIME/Oliveira
MyLovelyLurker
Profile Joined April 2007
France756 Posts
November 04 2016 22:24 GMT
#215
On November 05 2016 06:11 ZenithM wrote:

Edit: And in my humble experience (I don't know what's your own experience with machine learning), I wouldn't say with a straight face that "learning algorithms thrive in randomness situations". The less random my test set is, the happier I am :D


Agreed, this is why regularization was invented. He probably meant that gradient descent is robust to initialization & noise.
"I just say, it doesn't matter win or lose, I just love Starcraft 2, I love this game, I love this stage, just play like in practice" - TIME/Oliveira
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
November 04 2016 22:36 GMT
#216
I'm curious - is the native AI in the game limited in APM?
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
November 04 2016 22:42 GMT
#217
On November 05 2016 07:36 coverpunch wrote:
I'm curious - is the native AI in the game limited in APM?


No. But it sucks so no one cares.
MyLovelyLurker
Profile Joined April 2007
France756 Posts
November 04 2016 22:42 GMT
#218
On November 05 2016 07:36 coverpunch wrote:
I'm curious - is the native AI in the game limited in APM?


If Deepmind proceeds as they have in the past for Atari games AI, their SC2 AI would automatically be limited to 2 or 3 actions per frame, so at 60fps, that's max 180APM.
"I just say, it doesn't matter win or lose, I just love Starcraft 2, I love this game, I love this stage, just play like in practice" - TIME/Oliveira
oGoZenob
Profile Joined December 2011
France1503 Posts
November 04 2016 22:42 GMT
#219
On November 05 2016 07:36 coverpunch wrote:
I'm curious - is the native AI in the game limited in APM?

no but they use their apm differently, as they cant box units, and have to move them individually.
So an insane AI, which is about plat/diamond level, is generally playing at more than 1000 apm average
I like starcraft
jimminy_kriket
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada5502 Posts
November 04 2016 23:38 GMT
#220
On November 05 2016 07:42 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2016 07:36 coverpunch wrote:
I'm curious - is the native AI in the game limited in APM?


If Deepmind proceeds as they have in the past for Atari games AI, their SC2 AI would automatically be limited to 2 or 3 actions per frame, so at 60fps, that's max 180APM.

wouldnt that be 180 actions per second? That would be cool to see.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
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