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On March 18 2016 08:10 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On March 18 2016 07:53 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 07:50 Elentos wrote:On March 18 2016 07:47 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 07:46 stuchiu wrote:On March 18 2016 07:45 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 03:27 stuchiu wrote:On March 18 2016 03:25 blade55555 wrote:
Can we get a PatchToss and PatchTerran list plox. PatchToss: Arthur PatchTerran: INnoVation, Flash, Marineking Also Maru Maru was too good during blink era. to count. wait... the other ones were serious? It's kinda hard to deny with Inno and Flash. When Terran wasn't that good they were struggling more than others. When the meta was shifted so standard Terran play got stronger, they got (closer) to the top. Both of them always did better in the same metagames too, so it's hardly coincidence. INnoVation was the only terran who was in a GSL finals for all of HotS (and he did it 3 times) and 1 out of 2 terrans who won a premier tournament in 2015. There are hardly players who deserve the term patch"something" less than him. if the meta looked good for terran when he won it was because he made the meta look favorable for terran So when he does well in a favorable meta, the meta looks favorable because of him; but when he doesn't do well in an unfavorable meta (blink), it's because of the meta? So what about when the meta looked neither favorable nor unfavorable for Terran and Inno did average? Well I guess he's allowed to fall off every now and then. His best tournament finishes in WoL are like the complete opposite of being a Patchterran, but his best HotS results coincide with good Terran metas and patches more than I as a fan would like to admit. there was only 1 terran who got to the GSL finals in all of HotS. And he did it not 1 time, not 2 times but 3 times. If you think someone who does that far better then every other player of his race I don't know what to say to you. It's like saying NesTea is a patchzerg.
You're purposely evading the point but that's fine. Fan's got to do what a fan's got to do. Just know that nobody said he wasn't very skilled & gifted and nobody said he was just abusing broken compositions. Just that his performance swings along with the metagame too hard.
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I'm glad to see Stephano's name at least given a mention on the patchzerg list. The only reason why he was ever a top player is because of broken zerg favored maps and a zerg favored meta
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On March 18 2016 08:11 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2016 08:10 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On March 18 2016 07:53 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 07:50 Elentos wrote:On March 18 2016 07:47 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 07:46 stuchiu wrote:On March 18 2016 07:45 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 03:27 stuchiu wrote:On March 18 2016 03:25 blade55555 wrote:
Can we get a PatchToss and PatchTerran list plox. PatchToss: Arthur PatchTerran: INnoVation, Flash, Marineking Also Maru Maru was too good during blink era. to count. wait... the other ones were serious? It's kinda hard to deny with Inno and Flash. When Terran wasn't that good they were struggling more than others. When the meta was shifted so standard Terran play got stronger, they got (closer) to the top. Both of them always did better in the same metagames too, so it's hardly coincidence. INnoVation was the only terran who was in a GSL finals for all of HotS (and he did it 3 times) and 1 out of 2 terrans who won a premier tournament in 2015. There are hardly players who deserve the term patch"something" less than him. if the meta looked good for terran when he won it was because he made the meta look favorable for terran So when he does well in a favorable meta, the meta looks favorable because of him; but when he doesn't do well in an unfavorable meta (blink), it's because of the meta? So what about when the meta looked neither favorable nor unfavorable for Terran and Inno did average? Well I guess he's allowed to fall off every now and then. His best tournament finishes in WoL are like the complete opposite of being a Patchterran, but his best HotS results coincide with good Terran metas and patches more than I as a fan would like to admit. there was only 1 terran who got to the GSL finals in all of HotS. And he did it not 1 time, not 2 times but 3 times. If you think someone who does that far better then every other player of his race I don't know what to say to you. It's like saying NesTea is a patchzerg. You're purposely evading the point but that's fine.
Okay let's analize it a bit more. I disagree that the metas he did well in were particularly terran favored.
the first GSL finals he got to had 2 terrans in the ro8 and Inno was the only one in the ro4. How is that super terran favored?
the GSL he won in 2014 had again 2 terrans in the ro8 who faced each other in the ro4. Inno was the only one in the finals.
the 2015 GSL had 3 terrans in the ro8 and 2 in the ro4. again Inno the only one in the finals.
If you really think thoses eras were super terran favored why was it only INnoVation who performed that well?
Aren't normally the brackets filled with players of one race when it is super favored.
or is it just that the meta was super terran favored but Inno was the only one who could abuse that.
edit: the meta only looked favored because INnoVation dominated his opponents so hard it looked imbalanced.
Do you really think 4M vs ling bane muta would have looked terran favored if it wasn't for INnoVation killing every opponent with ease. Or that mech vs zerg would have looked imbalanced without him. he was the only one who made it consistently work against top zergs. Most other terrans got bopped by zergs like Byul and soO.
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United States33708 Posts
Guys, please stop fighting. This is a post-racial society.
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Hilarious article 
Love that kind of fun stuff, keep it going.
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RoRojwa aka the only KeSPA zerg better than hyvaa
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On March 18 2016 08:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2016 08:11 Elentos wrote:On March 18 2016 08:10 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On March 18 2016 07:53 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 07:50 Elentos wrote:On March 18 2016 07:47 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 07:46 stuchiu wrote:On March 18 2016 07:45 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 03:27 stuchiu wrote:
[quote]
PatchToss: Arthur
PatchTerran: INnoVation, Flash, Marineking
Also Maru Maru was too good during blink era. to count. wait... the other ones were serious? It's kinda hard to deny with Inno and Flash. When Terran wasn't that good they were struggling more than others. When the meta was shifted so standard Terran play got stronger, they got (closer) to the top. Both of them always did better in the same metagames too, so it's hardly coincidence. INnoVation was the only terran who was in a GSL finals for all of HotS (and he did it 3 times) and 1 out of 2 terrans who won a premier tournament in 2015. There are hardly players who deserve the term patch"something" less than him. if the meta looked good for terran when he won it was because he made the meta look favorable for terran So when he does well in a favorable meta, the meta looks favorable because of him; but when he doesn't do well in an unfavorable meta (blink), it's because of the meta? So what about when the meta looked neither favorable nor unfavorable for Terran and Inno did average? Well I guess he's allowed to fall off every now and then. His best tournament finishes in WoL are like the complete opposite of being a Patchterran, but his best HotS results coincide with good Terran metas and patches more than I as a fan would like to admit. there was only 1 terran who got to the GSL finals in all of HotS. And he did it not 1 time, not 2 times but 3 times. If you think someone who does that far better then every other player of his race I don't know what to say to you. It's like saying NesTea is a patchzerg. You're purposely evading the point but that's fine. Okay let's analize it a bit more. I disagree that the metas he did well in were particularly terran favored. the first GSL finals he got to had 2 terrans in the ro8 and Inno was the only one in the ro4. How is that super terran favored? the GSL he won in 2014 had again 2 terrans in the ro8 who faced each other in the ro4. Inno was the only one in the finals. the 2015 GSL had 3 terrans in the ro8 and 2 in the ro4. again Inno the only one in the finals. If you really think thoses eras were super terran favored why was it only INnoVation who performed that well? Aren't normally the brackets filled with players of one race when it is super favored. or is it just that the meta was super terran favored but Inno was the only one who could abuse that.
Actually Flash, Mvp, Bomber and Maru did really well in 2013 at the same time as Inno.
In 2014, Maru, Cure, Flash all were doing well at the same time. Maru got a group of death. Flash bombed out like he always does. Cure made it the ro4 and almost won Red Bull against Bomber. Bomber was also doing well outside of Korea.
In 2015, TY, Maru, Flash and INnoVation were all doing well around that time.
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this is the first time I have heard someone say terran was strong at the end of 2015.
terran won by far the least tournaments in 2015 and even David Kim admitted he has considerd buffing terran before blizzcon because they looked weak. But yeah, Inno won a tournament so terran must have been OP.
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Man. All this talk of patchZerg, and now I want to play Wings Of Liberty ladder again.
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On March 18 2016 08:36 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2016 08:24 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 08:11 Elentos wrote:On March 18 2016 08:10 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On March 18 2016 07:53 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 07:50 Elentos wrote:On March 18 2016 07:47 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 07:46 stuchiu wrote:On March 18 2016 07:45 Charoisaur wrote:
[quote]
Also Maru Maru was too good during blink era. to count. wait... the other ones were serious? It's kinda hard to deny with Inno and Flash. When Terran wasn't that good they were struggling more than others. When the meta was shifted so standard Terran play got stronger, they got (closer) to the top. Both of them always did better in the same metagames too, so it's hardly coincidence. INnoVation was the only terran who was in a GSL finals for all of HotS (and he did it 3 times) and 1 out of 2 terrans who won a premier tournament in 2015. There are hardly players who deserve the term patch"something" less than him. if the meta looked good for terran when he won it was because he made the meta look favorable for terran So when he does well in a favorable meta, the meta looks favorable because of him; but when he doesn't do well in an unfavorable meta (blink), it's because of the meta? So what about when the meta looked neither favorable nor unfavorable for Terran and Inno did average? Well I guess he's allowed to fall off every now and then. His best tournament finishes in WoL are like the complete opposite of being a Patchterran, but his best HotS results coincide with good Terran metas and patches more than I as a fan would like to admit. there was only 1 terran who got to the GSL finals in all of HotS. And he did it not 1 time, not 2 times but 3 times. If you think someone who does that far better then every other player of his race I don't know what to say to you. It's like saying NesTea is a patchzerg. You're purposely evading the point but that's fine. Okay let's analize it a bit more. I disagree that the metas he did well in were particularly terran favored. the first GSL finals he got to had 2 terrans in the ro8 and Inno was the only one in the ro4. How is that super terran favored? the GSL he won in 2014 had again 2 terrans in the ro8 who faced each other in the ro4. Inno was the only one in the finals. the 2015 GSL had 3 terrans in the ro8 and 2 in the ro4. again Inno the only one in the finals. If you really think thoses eras were super terran favored why was it only INnoVation who performed that well? Aren't normally the brackets filled with players of one race when it is super favored. or is it just that the meta was super terran favored but Inno was the only one who could abuse that. Actually Flash, Mvp, Bomber and Maru did really well in 2013 at the same time as Inno. In 2014, Maru, Cure, Flash all were doing well at the same time. Maru got a group of death. Flash bombed out like he always does. Cure made it the ro4 and almost won Red Bull against Bomber. Bomber was also doing well outside of Korea. In 2015, TY, Maru, Flash and INnoVation were all doing well around that time.
they did well for their standards but except Maru none of them did well enough or even came close to winning a starleague.
Must he be the only terran in the ro16 to prove he can do well in bad metas?
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On March 18 2016 08:39 Charoisaur wrote:
this is the first time I have heard someone say terran was strong at the end of 2015.
terran won by far the least tournaments in 2015 and even David Kim admitted he has considerd buffing terran before blizzcon because they looked weak. But yeah, Inno won a tournament so terran must have been OP.
It's not that terran was OP or anything in late 2015. It's just that after the swarmhost nerf mech was pretty strong in TvZ and also strong in TvT which favored Inno's playstyle.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Cure was 1 game away from beating Inno in his GSL run.
Bomber won the WCS Season 2 finals after OSL.
TY was 1 game away from getting to the finals.
Only Flash wasn't close, but he won IEM Toronto and 2nd at MLG.
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On March 18 2016 08:57 stuchiu wrote:
Cure was 1 game away from beating Inno in his GSL run.
Bomber won the WCS Season 2 finals after OSL.
TY was 1 game away from getting to the finals.
Only Flash wasn't close, but he won IEM Toronto and 2nd at MLG.
ok but by that logic every protoss who was succesful in HotS is a patchtoss because there were always 4-5 protoss who did well at the same time.
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This is almost as good as Lings of Liberty.
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On March 18 2016 04:32 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Wait are we allowed to call people patch zergs now? That was mod actionable for like 2 years
i already called out the hypocrisy multiple times. back then people who told the truth about the suck that was gglord and winfestor were punished with bans. it is common that prophets are persecuted during their time, only to be proven right. said prophets only wanted to save SC2 by pointing out the horrible balance patch that extended queen range and ushered in an era that literally murdered the game. i'll never forgot how these noobs mocked avilo in state of the game when avilo predicted how awful queen range patch was. only qxc was level headed. bad players like idra and incontrol made fools of themselves
Another one that got ppl banned was pointing out that innovation was really bad at TvT becase as soon hellbats got nerfed, his TvT got nerfed hard and he got repeatedly pwned
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On March 18 2016 09:51 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2016 04:32 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Wait are we allowed to call people patch zergs now? That was mod actionable for like 2 years i already called out the hypocrisy multiple times. back then people who told the truth about the suck that was gglord and winfestor were punished with bans. it is common that prophets are persecuted during their time, only to be proven right. said prophets only wanted to save SC2 by pointing out the horrible balance patch that extended queen range and ushered in an era that literally murdered the game. i'll never forgot how these noobs mocked avilo in state of the game when avilo predicted how awful queen range patch was. only qxc was level headed. bad players like idra and incontrol made fools of themselves Another one that got ppl banned was pointing out that innovation was really bad at TvT becase as soon hellbats got nerfed, his TvT got nerfed hard and he got repeatedly pwned
While I agree Infestor Broodlord was a dark time indeed, that queen change was one of the best things to happen in WoL.
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On March 18 2016 07:50 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2016 07:47 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 07:46 stuchiu wrote:On March 18 2016 07:45 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2016 03:27 stuchiu wrote:On March 18 2016 03:25 blade55555 wrote:
Can we get a PatchToss and PatchTerran list plox. PatchToss: Arthur PatchTerran: INnoVation, Flash, Marineking Also Maru Maru was too good during blink era. to count. wait... the other ones were serious? It's kinda hard to deny with Inno and Flash. When Terran wasn't that good they were struggling more than others. When the meta was shifted so standard Terran play got stronger, they got (closer) to the top. Both of them always did better in the same metagames too, so it's hardly coincidence. It wasn't atrocious like some of the players on this list, but they kinda fit the definition of Patchterran anyway. And stu said he didn't mean it in a negative way (except for MarineKing).
The implication when you're talking about "patch-race" is that those players are abusing some kind of temporary advantage to artificially inflate their apparent skill level.
INno and Flash doing well when the meta favors Terran standard play is neither coincidence nor indication of patch-Terranness. Standard play should by definition always be viable. It's the times when standard play isn't reliable that we look to see who (of the other races) gets away with things they shouldn't.
If late 2013-mid 2014 is to be held against INnoVation, then by that logic Maru is literally the only non-patch Terran in Korea.
Also every single Protoss got a boost midway through 2013 once they realized Blink + MSC + Oracles are good things to have. Does that make Dear, Zest, Stats, Classic (the list goes on and on) patch Tosses, or if you prefer expansion-Tosses? I was salty as fuck throughout 2014 but I wouldn't dream of calling any of those guys patch-Tosses now, and not just because of the pejorative connotations but because they can all play a mean standard game.
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On March 18 2016 08:13 Jonas wrote:I'm glad to see Stephano's name at least given a mention on the patchzerg list. The only reason why he was ever a top player is because of broken zerg favored maps and a zerg favored meta
Total BS. like entirely completly totally 100% BS.
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On March 18 2016 04:32 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Wait are we allowed to call people patch zergs now? That was mod actionable for like 2 years
TL writer/moderator metagame at its finest. Don't talk about anything until one of the forum elites has done so himself.
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Wow, this is really hostile.
I don't approve of this at all. I'm very disappointed in the staff here setting such a bad example. Certainly you guys wouldn't like it if all the users started talking like this in posts?
This isn't reddit.
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EPT
