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On December 21 2015 00:03 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 23:48 Everlong wrote:On December 20 2015 23:34 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:24 JackONeill wrote:
A clic on a pylone now 3shots a banshee. It 4shots a medivac.
Blizzard needs to stop making protoss so gimmicky and retarded. You forget about the fact that Medivacs can move around - what about turrets? They kill Warp Prisms very quickly if flown straight into one or two, would you propose a nerf? If I see a wall of turrets as you see pylons, I just retreat and try to find a different opening - while I agree that overcharge did feel a little bit weird, I like how it prevents some instant game-ending moves that previous installments were riddled with. We'll see if this change will be bad. Change from 25 to 50 energy is definitely a nerf, no matter the damage. Pylons are supply buildings as well unlike Missile Turrets. Also, Protoss player (I guess?) speaking about how he likes he's able to prevent some instant game-ending moves feels really funny. May I suggest an option for Terran to prevent game-ending moves too? Like Oracles, Adept/Prism, Blink and such? With MULEs removed, I'm all for that. It's funny how some people try to argument an issue with another possible issue. I'm a Protoss player, learning other races, and - attention, attention - I think Adepts are too strong.
Wait what? So you are all for improving Terran early game defense against Protoss game-ending moves, but not unless we take out Terran's economy out of the game? Do I read that correctly?
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On December 21 2015 00:13 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 00:03 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:48 Everlong wrote:On December 20 2015 23:34 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:24 JackONeill wrote:
A clic on a pylone now 3shots a banshee. It 4shots a medivac.
Blizzard needs to stop making protoss so gimmicky and retarded. You forget about the fact that Medivacs can move around - what about turrets? They kill Warp Prisms very quickly if flown straight into one or two, would you propose a nerf? If I see a wall of turrets as you see pylons, I just retreat and try to find a different opening - while I agree that overcharge did feel a little bit weird, I like how it prevents some instant game-ending moves that previous installments were riddled with. We'll see if this change will be bad. Change from 25 to 50 energy is definitely a nerf, no matter the damage. Pylons are supply buildings as well unlike Missile Turrets. Also, Protoss player (I guess?) speaking about how he likes he's able to prevent some instant game-ending moves feels really funny. May I suggest an option for Terran to prevent game-ending moves too? Like Oracles, Adept/Prism, Blink and such? With MULEs removed, I'm all for that. It's funny how some people try to argument an issue with another possible issue. I'm a Protoss player, learning other races, and - attention, attention - I think Adepts are too strong. Wait what? So you are all for improving Terran early game defense against Protoss game-ending moves, but not unless we take out Terran's economy out of the game? Do I read that correctly?
I'm sorry if it sounded like a real proposition, it was not one.
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PO 45 damages ? OS marines and zerglings ? Yeah, pretty sure it's going to nerf the PO as expected..
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rly? why incrasing the damage? with adepts protoss is so storng in the earlygame. PO shouldnt get a damagebuff.
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On December 21 2015 01:30 SpecKROELLchen wrote:
rly? why incrasing the damage? with adepts protoss is so storng in the earlygame. PO shouldnt get a damagebuff.
It's a DPS nerf.
Right now, for 50 energy you get two pylons shooting for 30 damage each: 2x30 = 60.
With the nerf, for 50 energy you get one pylon shooting for 45 damage: 1x45 = 45.
Also, as other people have pointed out, since the PO is cast on a singe pylon instead of two it's twice as easy to destroy to stop the damage. Also a single pylon covers less area than two.
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On December 21 2015 00:13 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 00:03 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:48 Everlong wrote:On December 20 2015 23:34 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:24 JackONeill wrote:
A clic on a pylone now 3shots a banshee. It 4shots a medivac.
Blizzard needs to stop making protoss so gimmicky and retarded. You forget about the fact that Medivacs can move around - what about turrets? They kill Warp Prisms very quickly if flown straight into one or two, would you propose a nerf? If I see a wall of turrets as you see pylons, I just retreat and try to find a different opening - while I agree that overcharge did feel a little bit weird, I like how it prevents some instant game-ending moves that previous installments were riddled with. We'll see if this change will be bad. Change from 25 to 50 energy is definitely a nerf, no matter the damage. Pylons are supply buildings as well unlike Missile Turrets. Also, Protoss player (I guess?) speaking about how he likes he's able to prevent some instant game-ending moves feels really funny. May I suggest an option for Terran to prevent game-ending moves too? Like Oracles, Adept/Prism, Blink and such? With MULEs removed, I'm all for that. It's funny how some people try to argument an issue with another possible issue. I'm a Protoss player, learning other races, and - attention, attention - I think Adepts are too strong. Wait what? So you are all for improving Terran early game defense against Protoss game-ending moves, but not unless we take out Terran's economy out of the game? Do I read that correctly?
I like how every race has these pointless arguments. My race cant do X so its underpowered.
Sure, protoss has significant advantages by having a MSC and pylon overcharge. Also warpprisms and warpins are really good.
Then again, terran has siege tanks, liberators and the best mineral dump in the game, mules giving a much healthier economy and super easy access to detection with scan.
Terran can also do a complete wall off, using supply depots that dont cost 2 supply.
Im not sure what youre argument is, do you want all races to be the same?
Ter
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On December 21 2015 05:49 Empirimancer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 01:30 SpecKROELLchen wrote:
rly? why incrasing the damage? with adepts protoss is so storng in the earlygame. PO shouldnt get a damagebuff. It's a DPS nerf. Right now, for 50 energy you get two pylons shooting for 30 damage each: 2x30 = 60. With the nerf, for 50 energy you get one pylon shooting for 45 damage: 1x45 = 45. Also, as other people have pointed out, since the PO is cast on a singe pylon instead of two it's twice as easy to destroy to stop the damage. Also a single pylon covers less area than two. You forget that it one shots units like Lings or Marines without shields. In this regard, the DPS is actually the same. It no longer fires twice to kill ling/marine, it kills it in one hit.
Also, if you want to pressure Protosses 3rd base, and he has 3 Pylons near it, it is much better to use stacked energy and have 3x45 damage Pylon cannons instead of 3x30. Most of the time, attacking army will not be in range of more then 2-3 Pylons. Therefore, the reasoning of "now you only have energy for 3 cannons instead of 6" is invalid.
If anything, the PO change is a buff when it comes to defending timing attacks.
It leaves Protoss more vulnerable once MSC comes into play, as it needs to gather energy first. But after that short window of time, Pylon cannons are only stronger.
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Really liking those ladder changes!
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What about those league distributions? At Blizzcon they said something like 8/23/23/23/23/4 from bronze to masters.
Will there be a Soft / Hard MMR Reset again if they make the ladder revamp? Seems quiet possible in my opinion?
EDIT: The season 4 ends at january, the 31, but the season lock is 29 december? ingame mistake?
greetings
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We recently learned that "precision beats power and timing beats speed”, so we’re interested to know if this statement also applies to professional SC2 games!
hahaha love the Connor Mcgregor quote
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I thought something was going to be included in this update about Ultralisk armor?
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Speaking of adepts, they absolutely brutalize hellions and hellbats 
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People, especially Terran players. Just stop whining about Ultralisks. We all saw at Homestory Cup as they were wrecked by ghosts. Just start use other units in T arsenal, not relying only on MMM (just as it is since 2010). Zerg nerfed hard, but i don't feel it's needed. Crackling nerf is overkill- u feel that lategame zerglings are too strong? Just look at 3/3 marines on stim- i don't hear about stim nerf coming soon. Ravager morphing time- well i can admit that they are coming too soon, especially on small maps where the rush distance is short. After watching HSC games i feel like it's time for Blizzard to reverse the larva nerf. I was sad when i saw Terrans with half the economy, overproducing Zerg with bio. I don't feel like Terran is underpowered in TvZ especially with the variety of early pressure they can deal. To be honest i feel like Zerg is compelled to make Roach/Ravager every ZvT. Everything else is not valid. So basically larva nerf makes us to do those nydus allins or mass Ravager pushes. Muta/Bling is weak, and almost every other composition doesn't work.
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On December 21 2015 06:55 weikor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 00:13 Everlong wrote:On December 21 2015 00:03 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:48 Everlong wrote:On December 20 2015 23:34 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:24 JackONeill wrote:
A clic on a pylone now 3shots a banshee. It 4shots a medivac.
Blizzard needs to stop making protoss so gimmicky and retarded. You forget about the fact that Medivacs can move around - what about turrets? They kill Warp Prisms very quickly if flown straight into one or two, would you propose a nerf? If I see a wall of turrets as you see pylons, I just retreat and try to find a different opening - while I agree that overcharge did feel a little bit weird, I like how it prevents some instant game-ending moves that previous installments were riddled with. We'll see if this change will be bad. Change from 25 to 50 energy is definitely a nerf, no matter the damage. Pylons are supply buildings as well unlike Missile Turrets. Also, Protoss player (I guess?) speaking about how he likes he's able to prevent some instant game-ending moves feels really funny. May I suggest an option for Terran to prevent game-ending moves too? Like Oracles, Adept/Prism, Blink and such? With MULEs removed, I'm all for that. It's funny how some people try to argument an issue with another possible issue. I'm a Protoss player, learning other races, and - attention, attention - I think Adepts are too strong. Wait what? So you are all for improving Terran early game defense against Protoss game-ending moves, but not unless we take out Terran's economy out of the game? Do I read that correctly? I like how every race has these pointless arguments. My race cant do X so its underpowered. Sure, protoss has significant advantages by having a MSC and pylon overcharge. Also warpprisms and warpins are really good. Then again, terran has siege tanks, liberators and the best mineral dump in the game, mules giving a much healthier economy and super easy access to detection with scan. Terran can also do a complete wall off, using supply depots that dont cost 2 supply. Im not sure what youre argument is, do you want all races to be the same? Ter
No, I don't want all races to be the same. I want the game to be balanced (it certainly is not at this point) so that every race can use their strengths and weaknesses, which ultimately makes the game interesting. But running away from obvious balance issues by saying that "every race has it's strengths and weaknesses" is not really going to help.
Really, pointing out T's ability to wall off (so good with Blink/Prism right?) is not going to hide the fact that current early game TvP is in a really bad state. Pylon rush into Adept pressure of some kind (mostly with Prism) while expanding freely (because you can hold most early game pressure from T easily with the help of Pylons) puts T in a really bad position for the rest of the game. Mentioning Siege Tanks as a strength of Terran (?) is not going to help either.
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On December 21 2015 16:51 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 06:55 weikor wrote:On December 21 2015 00:13 Everlong wrote:On December 21 2015 00:03 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:48 Everlong wrote:On December 20 2015 23:34 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:24 JackONeill wrote:
A clic on a pylone now 3shots a banshee. It 4shots a medivac.
Blizzard needs to stop making protoss so gimmicky and retarded. You forget about the fact that Medivacs can move around - what about turrets? They kill Warp Prisms very quickly if flown straight into one or two, would you propose a nerf? If I see a wall of turrets as you see pylons, I just retreat and try to find a different opening - while I agree that overcharge did feel a little bit weird, I like how it prevents some instant game-ending moves that previous installments were riddled with. We'll see if this change will be bad. Change from 25 to 50 energy is definitely a nerf, no matter the damage. Pylons are supply buildings as well unlike Missile Turrets. Also, Protoss player (I guess?) speaking about how he likes he's able to prevent some instant game-ending moves feels really funny. May I suggest an option for Terran to prevent game-ending moves too? Like Oracles, Adept/Prism, Blink and such? With MULEs removed, I'm all for that. It's funny how some people try to argument an issue with another possible issue. I'm a Protoss player, learning other races, and - attention, attention - I think Adepts are too strong. Wait what? So you are all for improving Terran early game defense against Protoss game-ending moves, but not unless we take out Terran's economy out of the game? Do I read that correctly? I like how every race has these pointless arguments. My race cant do X so its underpowered. Sure, protoss has significant advantages by having a MSC and pylon overcharge. Also warpprisms and warpins are really good. Then again, terran has siege tanks, liberators and the best mineral dump in the game, mules giving a much healthier economy and super easy access to detection with scan. Terran can also do a complete wall off, using supply depots that dont cost 2 supply. Im not sure what youre argument is, do you want all races to be the same? Ter No, I don't want all races to be the same. I want the game to be balanced (it certainly is not at this point) so that every race can use their strengths and weaknesses, which ultimately makes the game interesting. But running away from obvious balance issues by saying that "every race has it's strengths and weaknesses" is not really going to help. Really, pointing out T's ability to wall off (so good with Blink/Prism right?) is not going to hide the fact that current early game TvP is in a really bad state. Pylon rush into Adept pressure of some kind (mostly with Prism) while expanding freely (because you can hold most early game pressure from T easily with the help of Pylons) puts T in a really bad position for the rest of the game. Mentioning Siege Tanks as a strength of Terran (?) is not going to help either.
I'm not going to say that the meta isn't in a bad place. But if you nerf Protoss, then you need to nerf Terran more in order to achieve your ultimate goal of balance, because TvP is slightly Terran favored according Aligulac at the moment...
http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/
So let's always start with statistics and change from there. Not saying TvP doesn't need a lot of work and can't be better, but simply buffing the side that is winning more, regardless of how bad their early game might be, or nerfing the side that is losing more certainly won't achieve balance.
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On December 21 2015 17:06 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 16:51 Everlong wrote:On December 21 2015 06:55 weikor wrote:On December 21 2015 00:13 Everlong wrote:On December 21 2015 00:03 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:48 Everlong wrote:On December 20 2015 23:34 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:24 JackONeill wrote:
A clic on a pylone now 3shots a banshee. It 4shots a medivac.
Blizzard needs to stop making protoss so gimmicky and retarded. You forget about the fact that Medivacs can move around - what about turrets? They kill Warp Prisms very quickly if flown straight into one or two, would you propose a nerf? If I see a wall of turrets as you see pylons, I just retreat and try to find a different opening - while I agree that overcharge did feel a little bit weird, I like how it prevents some instant game-ending moves that previous installments were riddled with. We'll see if this change will be bad. Change from 25 to 50 energy is definitely a nerf, no matter the damage. Pylons are supply buildings as well unlike Missile Turrets. Also, Protoss player (I guess?) speaking about how he likes he's able to prevent some instant game-ending moves feels really funny. May I suggest an option for Terran to prevent game-ending moves too? Like Oracles, Adept/Prism, Blink and such? With MULEs removed, I'm all for that. It's funny how some people try to argument an issue with another possible issue. I'm a Protoss player, learning other races, and - attention, attention - I think Adepts are too strong. Wait what? So you are all for improving Terran early game defense against Protoss game-ending moves, but not unless we take out Terran's economy out of the game? Do I read that correctly? I like how every race has these pointless arguments. My race cant do X so its underpowered. Sure, protoss has significant advantages by having a MSC and pylon overcharge. Also warpprisms and warpins are really good. Then again, terran has siege tanks, liberators and the best mineral dump in the game, mules giving a much healthier economy and super easy access to detection with scan. Terran can also do a complete wall off, using supply depots that dont cost 2 supply. Im not sure what youre argument is, do you want all races to be the same? Ter No, I don't want all races to be the same. I want the game to be balanced (it certainly is not at this point) so that every race can use their strengths and weaknesses, which ultimately makes the game interesting. But running away from obvious balance issues by saying that "every race has it's strengths and weaknesses" is not really going to help. Really, pointing out T's ability to wall off (so good with Blink/Prism right?) is not going to hide the fact that current early game TvP is in a really bad state. Pylon rush into Adept pressure of some kind (mostly with Prism) while expanding freely (because you can hold most early game pressure from T easily with the help of Pylons) puts T in a really bad position for the rest of the game. Mentioning Siege Tanks as a strength of Terran (?) is not going to help either. I'm not going to say that the meta isn't in a bad place. But if you nerf Protoss, then you need to nerf Terran more in order to achieve your ultimate goal of balance, because TvP is slightly Terran favored according Aligulac at the moment... http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/So let's always start with statistics and change from there. Not saying TvP doesn't need a lot of work and can't be better, but simply buffing the side that is winning more, regardless of how bad their early game might be, or nerfing the side that is losing more certainly won't achieve balance.
I'm not saying the game is not balanced statistically. The "meta" is fucked up and certain parts of game are not balanced. It's mostly the early game and the late game, where it's quite obvious certain things are just broken (Adept, Viper's PB, Liberator, etc...). Maybe I should be more careful with the word "balance", people here are overly sensitive to it.
It reminds me of the era of pulling the boys before mid/late game TvP. It's the same story here, imo. Yes, people win TvP, it's around 50/50, so it's "fine". But it's not, really. You know what I mean.
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On December 19 2015 18:40 opisska wrote:
MMR! MMR! MMR!
After FIVE fucking years, we are going to put an end to "but I am TOP gold!" ?! Un-fucking-believable.
Seriously, how is this thread full of the same old stupid balance discussion again, when they are giving us MMR.
MMR!!! :o :o Finally!! The technology is here!!!
You can ditch leagues entirely for what I care now. I already got my gold medal for getting into league 3 out of 7, thanks, essentially beat multiplayer. Gold: winning medal, I rulez. yep.
And yes: why are there posts that are not about MMR in this thread? Ban plz.
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On December 21 2015 16:05 hiroshOne wrote:
People, especially Terran players. Just stop whining about Ultralisks. We all saw at Homestory Cup as they were wrecked by ghosts. Just start use other units in T arsenal, not relying only on MMM (just as it is since 2010). Zerg nerfed hard, but i don't feel it's needed. Crackling nerf is overkill- u feel that lategame zerglings are too strong? Just look at 3/3 marines on stim- i don't hear about stim nerf coming soon. Ravager morphing time- well i can admit that they are coming too soon, especially on small maps where the rush distance is short. After watching HSC games i feel like it's time for Blizzard to reverse the larva nerf. I was sad when i saw Terrans with half the economy, overproducing Zerg with bio. I don't feel like Terran is underpowered in TvZ especially with the variety of early pressure they can deal. To be honest i feel like Zerg is compelled to make Roach/Ravager every ZvT. Everything else is not valid. So basically larva nerf makes us to do those nydus allins or mass Ravager pushes. Muta/Bling is weak, and almost every other composition doesn't work.
Yea MMA vs foreigners lol
Please watch GSL and SSL games and you will change your mind about that
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On December 21 2015 16:51 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 06:55 weikor wrote:On December 21 2015 00:13 Everlong wrote:On December 21 2015 00:03 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:48 Everlong wrote:On December 20 2015 23:34 aQuaSC wrote:On December 20 2015 23:24 JackONeill wrote:
A clic on a pylone now 3shots a banshee. It 4shots a medivac.
Blizzard needs to stop making protoss so gimmicky and retarded. You forget about the fact that Medivacs can move around - what about turrets? They kill Warp Prisms very quickly if flown straight into one or two, would you propose a nerf? If I see a wall of turrets as you see pylons, I just retreat and try to find a different opening - while I agree that overcharge did feel a little bit weird, I like how it prevents some instant game-ending moves that previous installments were riddled with. We'll see if this change will be bad. Change from 25 to 50 energy is definitely a nerf, no matter the damage. Pylons are supply buildings as well unlike Missile Turrets. Also, Protoss player (I guess?) speaking about how he likes he's able to prevent some instant game-ending moves feels really funny. May I suggest an option for Terran to prevent game-ending moves too? Like Oracles, Adept/Prism, Blink and such? With MULEs removed, I'm all for that. It's funny how some people try to argument an issue with another possible issue. I'm a Protoss player, learning other races, and - attention, attention - I think Adepts are too strong. Wait what? So you are all for improving Terran early game defense against Protoss game-ending moves, but not unless we take out Terran's economy out of the game? Do I read that correctly? I like how every race has these pointless arguments. My race cant do X so its underpowered. Sure, protoss has significant advantages by having a MSC and pylon overcharge. Also warpprisms and warpins are really good. Then again, terran has siege tanks, liberators and the best mineral dump in the game, mules giving a much healthier economy and super easy access to detection with scan. Terran can also do a complete wall off, using supply depots that dont cost 2 supply. Im not sure what youre argument is, do you want all races to be the same? Ter No, I don't want all races to be the same. I want the game to be balanced (it certainly is not at this point) so that every race can use their strengths and weaknesses, which ultimately makes the game interesting. But running away from obvious balance issues by saying that "every race has it's strengths and weaknesses" is not really going to help. Really, pointing out T's ability to wall off (so good with Blink/Prism right?) is not going to hide the fact that current early game TvP is in a really bad state. Pylon rush into Adept pressure of some kind (mostly with Prism) while expanding freely (because you can hold most early game pressure from T easily with the help of Pylons) puts T in a really bad position for the rest of the game. Mentioning Siege Tanks as a strength of Terran (?) is not going to help either.
Yea and in Korea no terran because adepts warp prism so strong.
They have to fix a bit that because there won't be any terran in GSL and the very few in SSL will be eliminated quite fast
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Reading the team's justification for their decisions gives me visual images of a Magikarp flopping helplessly back and forth. Like... What is this?
- Bonus pool tuning
- We like how bonus pool is effective as a tool that rewards players for continuing to play.
- The current numbers for bonus pool point accrual don’t seem appropriate for each matchmaking format. We intend to explore our data about how often players/teams play in each format in order to get better numbers per game format.
- Showing MMR
- We’re thinking we can show MMR as a tool for players to use so they can accurately tell exactly what someone’s skill is.
- Tier system
- We still believe it’ll be the most fun for players to focus on which tier of which league he or she belongs to.
- We’re leaning towards keeping mid season demotions disabled here. The main reason for this is that your current skill is portrayed by MMR already, so it will be cooler to see your highest rank that season through the League/tier system.
- Keep loading screen information simple, but have more transparency on the score screen (for example, showing the MMR of both players on there)
- This is mostly based on your feedback saying that too many details about an opponent before a match might introduce weird factors that could disrupt your ability to play well. We’re thinking we can focus on providing that information after the match has ended.
First off, ladder points were supposed to be a numeric representation of a player's ladder climbing in the absence of displaying their MMR. If we are going to have MMR, what is the purpose of points/bonus pool? Second, still preventing mid-season demotion continues to make a joke out of the tier system, as your tier is not necessarily reflective of your skill/position in the ladder. It's a worthless showpiece right now, and will be demonstrably so for many when putting it beside the player's actual MMR.
Just take some time to actually design a ladder system that makes sense, please. Either go with MMR as your information metric or have a points system (with hidden MMR) that actually helps the player understand whether they're climbing/falling -- and enough of this hand holding with the tiers; if a player gets Gold placement but quickly ends up in Bronze MMR ranges, then he is Bronze. For the points option, look at League of Legends as a benchmark if you have to.
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EPT
