On December 17 2015 23:08 Elentos wrote: I'll repeat it - 3/16 Terrans is still a higher % then 3/32 and 4/32 in the first Code S seasons of 2014.
I mean Maru, TY and Reality got pretty bad brackets tbh. I wouldn't call terran up tbh
Imo it was to a good extent on the map pool. Ruins of Seras is 60%-40% for ZvT and 77%-23% for PvT, for example.
Sure i guess. It's just that it's also kinda hard to distinguish between a map being broken for one race, or that race simply being too weak for a healthy amount of unique map structures. If you know what i mean :D
Terran looks under represented, but its hard to judge with these current maps. I am sure this tournament and GSL, will give Bliz some insight on what to change in the near future
I'm loving this PvZcraft2 game! Now it makes perfect sense that they are downsizing SC2 tourneys and leagues, because T is going to have barely any presence in the competitive scene!
Really sad to realize that Maru/TY/FanTaSy got fucked by ridiculously hard brackets and then Reality had to play ByuN in round 1 prob could of had 1-2 terrans more if brackets/sessions were split better but oh well
Interesting that for all the talk of the strength of zerg, they are almost perfectly proportionally represented. Even more surprising, the zergs who qualified were almost exactly the ones you would have expected in a HotS tournament, with the exception of RagnaroK beating Life.
Terran probably need some help in some form, but these brackets did them no favors: Maru, Bomber, Sorry and jjakji all got screwed over by being put in the same bracket as Byul and Soulkey, and TY got stuck in the Solar/soO bracket. Mainly what makes terran look bad is that only one got out in first place, and of people it was aLive. Is he actually good in LotV?
And of course the protoss lineup got shaken up considerably, as to be expected for them since metagaming insight is more volatile than the mechanics that dominate for the other 2. Still, I was surprised Trust and Hurricane advanced, while their teammates Zest and Dear did not.
Also, what happened to the Jin Air lineup? I get that some of them had tough brackets, but not even one made it through?
Of all the terran I expected to qualify, Alive was pretty low on the list ^^ But oh well, let's not blame everything on balance, that's a small sample of players in a completely new game, let's be patient
On December 17 2015 23:54 Arceus wrote: I like this simple single elimination bracket. The league should have differed themselves from GSL and others long ago
I agree that it should be different from GSL. But pls in an interesting way. Not like this
Wait... There are only 2 SSL per year and these 2 seasons are like... 15 series and that's it? So all the players who do not qualify for GSL and aren't in the top 16, they're just done for half a year? Oo
On December 18 2015 00:44 Swisslink wrote: Wait... There are only 2 SSL per year and these 2 seasons are like... 15 series and that's it? So all the players who do not qualify for GSL and aren't in the top 16, they're just done for half a year? Oo
SSL pretty much downgraded A LOT for next year. This is so horrible -.-
Zerg line-up is reasonable. All qualified players are good besides Soulkey and RagnaroK - but RagnaroK is only here because Life had a strange meltdown. Terran line-up is terrible - besides Inno, who was the best T at the end of HotS, and ByuN, who was the best T in/after beta, only aLive managed to qualify. Ok, Maru can have a bad day, but complete failure of Terran tier 2 - TY/Dream/FanTaSy/Bbyong/whoever - can't be brushed aside because it's "too early to tell". Protoss line-up is unreasonable. There was 6 championship-level P in 2015 - sOs/Parting/Zest/Rain/Classic/herO. Only 2 of them managed to qualify but there is still 7 P in SSL. Out of those, Trust/MyuNgSiK/Hurricane/Patience were trash tier in Korea in HotS. There is no way all of them made a jump to the next level.
In semifinals and finals (I threw away quarterfinals to round out skill level) PvT is 5-1 (83%), ZvT is 7-4 (64%) and PvZ is 5-4 (56%) in series. Between this, GSL pre-season, Dreamhack and HSC there is enough sample size to warrant T buff (and maybe P nerf later).
I decide to cheer for 1) Classic 2) Solar 3) Byunnovation.
I hope 2 short SSLs means we will have more Korean events such as Kespa cup or GSL Super tournament with invites outside of starleagues circuit.
On December 18 2015 00:44 Swisslink wrote: Wait... There are only 2 SSL per year and these 2 seasons are like... 15 series and that's it? So all the players who do not qualify for GSL and aren't in the top 16, they're just done for half a year? Oo
SSL pretty much downgraded A LOT for next year. This is so horrible -.-
"much downgraded" is really a soft way to describe it. The whole Esports scene for StarCraft II got annihilated with LotV release... Whether it was foreigner scene or Korean one...
On December 18 2015 00:44 Swisslink wrote: Wait... There are only 2 SSL per year and these 2 seasons are like... 15 series and that's it? So all the players who do not qualify for GSL and aren't in the top 16, they're just done for half a year? Oo
SSL pretty much downgraded A LOT for next year. This is so horrible -.-
"much downgraded" is really a soft way to describe it. The whole Esports scene for StarCraft II got annihilated with LotV release... Whether it was foreigner scene or Korean one...
we really need more official information before we jump to conclusions like this
On December 18 2015 00:44 Swisslink wrote: Wait... There are only 2 SSL per year and these 2 seasons are like... 15 series and that's it? So all the players who do not qualify for GSL and aren't in the top 16, they're just done for half a year? Oo
SSL pretty much downgraded A LOT for next year. This is so horrible -.-
"much downgraded" is really a soft way to describe it. The whole Esports scene for StarCraft II got annihilated with LotV release... Whether it was foreigner scene or Korean one...
huh what ? The competitions have barely started, and the game has been out for a month, and you're already crying daed gaem ?
Protoss line-up is unreasonable. There was 6 championship-level P in 2015 - sOs/Parting/Zest/Rain/Classic/herO. Only 2 of them managed to qualify but there is still 7 P in SSL. Out of those, Trust/MyuNgSiK/Hurricane/Patience were trash tier in Korea in HotS. There is no way all of them made a jump to the next level.
I am not so sure the protoss lineup is as unreasonable as you claim. As for only 2 of the 6 champions you named who qualified, you should bear in mind that Rain and PartinG didn't attempt to qualify, so including them in misleading. As for the other 2 who didn't qualify, well, sOs got screwed by the bracket and lost to the #1 ranked player on Aligulac in the single elimination stage, which is hardly that shocking, and then Zest lost to a terran, which to be honest is also not very surprising.
And the four that you described as "trash tier" all made code S at some point last year, so I doubt they are that bad. It seems particularly unfair to MyuNgSiK, considering that he made top 8 finished in the GSL, SSL and Kespa cup last year, so saying he shouldn't have made ro16 rings kind of hollow.
Anyway, we'll have to wait and see if any of them can actually pull off a deep run, or if they just crash and burn in the first round.
WoL, HotS, now LotV, he has been able to be relevant in all 3 games, being the underdog in bassically every GSL (code S) he played. He almost never looked like he could be a champion, but he sure as hell can qualify for the big tournaments!
Protoss line-up is unreasonable. There was 6 championship-level P in 2015 - sOs/Parting/Zest/Rain/Classic/herO. Only 2 of them managed to qualify but there is still 7 P in SSL. Out of those, Trust/MyuNgSiK/Hurricane/Patience were trash tier in Korea in HotS. There is no way all of them made a jump to the next level.
I am not so sure the protoss lineup is as unreasonable as you claim. As for only 2 of the 6 champions you named who qualified, you should bear in mind that Rain and PartinG didn't attempt to qualify, so including them in misleading. As for the other 2 who didn't qualify, well, sOs got screwed by the bracket and lost to the #1 ranked player on Aligulac in the single elimination stage, which is hardly that shocking, and then Zest lost to a terran, which to be honest is also not very surprising.
And the four that you described as "trash tier" all made code S at some point last year, so I doubt they are that bad. It seems particularly unfair to MyuNgSiK, considering that he made top 8 finished in the GSL, SSL and Kespa cup last year, so saying he shouldn't have made ro16 rings kind of hollow.
Anyway, we'll have to wait and see if any of them can actually pull off a deep run, or if they just crash and burn in the first round.
That only proves my point. Out of 6 top players 2 didn't even try and 1 was steadily declining (Zest). Yet there is the biggest number of P in SSL. OK, I may be unfair to Myungsik, but still, there is too much Protoss players who made it to top 16 Koreans unexpectedly. Usually it is a result of bad balance.
wow pretty crazy these qualifiers, looks like a lot of "lower tier players" have been practicing a lot and it's paid off. No Zest, Life, Dream, sOs, Maru, or Rogue o.O
On December 18 2015 01:35 geokilla wrote: 7 Protoss, 6 Zergs, and 3 Terrans. The era of Terran dominance is over.
When was Terran last dominant?
2011.
Actually it was mid-late 2014.
But really, Legacy is a much different game than HotS. I mean, could you imagine serral almost all-killing Innovation, PartinG, and Hydra? Quite a few players now were not doing as well in HotS.
Although it is very similar to HotS and WoL, I would say that greatness in one does not automatically equate greatness in the other--at least this early in Legacy. People haven't figured out the game yet.
On December 18 2015 05:04 HeroMystic wrote: So how exactly did 7 Protoss manage to qualify? Easy brackets? Overabundance of Protoss entering this league?
Terran was the most represented race. But I wouldn't say those Protoss players had super easy brackets either.
On December 18 2015 05:02 Ctesias wrote: TY, Life and Zest qualify for the GSL, while Stats qualifies for this. Good thing they all qualified for something.
But nobody has qualified for GSL yet have they?
Life and Zest are in the running for a spot still though.
On December 18 2015 05:02 Ctesias wrote: TY, Life and Zest qualify for the GSL, while Stats qualifies for this. Good thing they all qualified for something.
But nobody has qualified for GSL yet have they?
Life and Zest are in the running for a spot still though.
You are correct. One spot for GSL is decided tomorrow, another one next week and then I guess they'll have more qualifiers in January or something.
On December 18 2015 05:02 Ctesias wrote: TY, Life and Zest qualify for the GSL, while Stats qualifies for this. Good thing they all qualified for something.
But nobody has qualified for GSL yet have they?
Life and Zest are in the running for a spot still though.
You are correct. One spot for GSL is decided tomorrow, another one next week and then I guess they'll have more qualifiers in January or something.
maybe they'll run a pre-tournament for every single spot. That would be cool
On December 18 2015 05:02 Ctesias wrote: TY, Life and Zest qualify for the GSL, while Stats qualifies for this. Good thing they all qualified for something.
But nobody has qualified for GSL yet have they?
Life and Zest are in the running for a spot still though.
You are correct. One spot for GSL is decided tomorrow, another one next week and then I guess they'll have more qualifiers in January or something.
maybe they'll run a pre-tournament for every single spot. That would be cool
So this is season 1 players and it will start already january. So will they play this first season 3-4 months or what? I mean there will be only 2 seasons, but till global finals/blizzcon there are 10-11 months, and its too much time for only 2 seasons.... And the players, who couldnt qualify, have to wait 3-4 months for the next qualifier? And also they cant play IEM or DH,if I understood it right. Damn they killed Korean scene....
On December 18 2015 07:39 TsogiMaster wrote: So this is season 1 players and it will start already january. So will they play this first season 3-4 months or what? I mean there will be only 2 seasons, but till global finals/blizzcon there are 10-11 months, and its too much time for only 2 seasons.... And the players, who couldnt qualify, have to wait 3-4 months for the next qualifier? And also they cant play IEM or DH,if I understood it right. Damn they killed Korean scene....
There will still be global events were Koreans can compete for points against foreigners and Koreigners. There may be Korean events planned we are not aware of yet. Most players will have Proleague every week soon. Only the ones that don't are somewhat fucked.
This lineup could pass for a HotS one. Considering the frequency of upsets, it looks like they could've played this in HotS and got roughly similar results.
On December 18 2015 08:58 andrewlt wrote: This lineup could pass for a HotS one. Considering the frequency of upsets, it looks like they could've played this in HotS and got roughly similar results.
pretty sure byun, alive, and soulkey aren't qualifying for any hots tournament. and we'd have more terrans.
On December 18 2015 02:24 Sapphire.lux wrote: The problem for Terran, as Blizzard pointed out, is with the bunker and Thor anti air. Once that is fixed, all will be ok. Don't panic.
I almost forgot the proposed bunker change ( Individual Neosteel upgrade) Might help a bit against adepts I suppose?
On December 18 2015 10:23 iamkaokao wrote: byun and alive? wtf...... where are the "top tier terrans"
If you think byun is not a top tier terran you must live some where really really far away last few month
With only 2 GSL SSL the early balance of the game will have a massive impact for the rest of the year. Not sure Blizzards wait and see approach is good in this case. Terran players are in trouble.
Basically it says that for the semifinals SSL will have double elimination in a very short note (that whole deal with winners final, loser final and Grand Finals, if you reach the semis and lose you get a 2nd chance). Ro16 will be bo3 unfortunately :/
That's actually legit yes? Wow i dislike it quite a bit tbh :/ It's fine for the qualifiers (and it would be fine if it would be double elim all the way), but starting at the semis? This is awkward as hell
It's a convenient way to extend the length of SSL to make up for the loss of an entire season without adding more players and splitting the prize pool further.
And if they went with double elimination all the way SSL would have almost twice the amount of matches per season which is too much.
Plus it conveniently finds SSL a 3rd place finisher for the cross competition if SSL and GSL are won by the same guy or ByuL goes double kong again.
On December 19 2015 00:03 Elentos wrote: It's a convenient way to extend the length of SSL to make up for the loss of an entire season without adding more players and splitting the prize pool further.
And if they went with double elimination all the way SSL would have almost twice the amount of matches per season which is too much.
Plus it conveniently finds SSL a 3rd place finisher for the cross competition if SSL and GSL are won by the same guy or ByuL goes double kong again.
I guess. In the end it probably won't matter too much, but it still feels awkward to me. It will be important how the execute it, is this all played on the same day? Do we give the players enough time to prepare? Is there any advantage for the guy never dropping into the loser bracket?
On December 19 2015 00:03 Elentos wrote: It's a convenient way to extend the length of SSL to make up for the loss of an entire season without adding more players and splitting the prize pool further.
And if they went with double elimination all the way SSL would have almost twice the amount of matches per season which is too much.
Plus it conveniently finds SSL a 3rd place finisher for the cross competition if SSL and GSL are won by the same guy or ByuL goes double kong again.
I guess. In the end it probably won't matter too much, but it still feels awkward to me. It will be important how the execute it, is this all played on the same day? Do we give the players enough time to prepare? Is there any advantage for the guy never dropping into the loser bracket?
Yeah, those things will be important, maybe they'll tell us about it before it happens.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hXlOvRl.jpg)
RagnaroK vs 
INnoVation 
Trust 
