On December 19 2016 03:45 lastride wrote: So what would be an ideal CPU for SC2? And I dont talk about those beasts that cost an arm and a leg Are there any CPU for around 180-200 euros that can handle those brutal coops without much frame drop? btw I am asking because I want to make a motherboard/cpu upgrade and I m totally pc blinded
Ideal would be 6600k overclocked (4 core). But if that it's too expensive you could get i3 6100/6300/6320 (2core + HT) and if you get good motherboard you could upgrade later to different skylake CPU (6600k/6700k). i3 aren't very good for other games since it's only 2 core, but it works for SC2 well.
You can also wait for AMD's Ryzen. It will be likely little slower than skylake in single thread, but the price per core should be better. Considering you will get low fps in SC2 under certain scenarios no matter what, I would prefer more cores which is more useful in other games/work. Personally I would wait and see how Ryzen performs if I could.
On December 19 2016 03:45 lastride wrote: So what would be an ideal CPU for SC2? And I dont talk about those beasts that cost an arm and a leg Are there any CPU for around 180-200 euros that can handle those brutal coops without much frame drop? btw I am asking because I want to make a motherboard/cpu upgrade and I m totally pc blinded
Ideal would be 6600k overclocked (4 core). But if that it's too expensive you could get i3 6100/6300/6320 (2core + HT) and if you get good motherboard you could upgrade later to different skylake CPU (6600k/6700k). i3 aren't very good for other games since it's only 2 core, but it works for SC2 well.
You can also wait for AMD's Ryzen. It will be likely little slower than skylake in single thread, but the price per core should be better. Considering you will get low fps in SC2 under certain scenarios no matter what, I would prefer more cores which is more useful in other games/work. Personally I would wait and see how Ryzen performs if I could.
Thanks a lot for the reply. I ll keep that in mind when I upgrade. Yeah I read somewhere that there is no difference in sc2 between 2 core and 4 core. Btw I wonder what type of pc some guys who play coop on high settings with no fps drop!! on youtube have.
On December 19 2016 03:45 lastride wrote: So what would be an ideal CPU for SC2? And I dont talk about those beasts that cost an arm and a leg Are there any CPU for around 180-200 euros that can handle those brutal coops without much frame drop? btw I am asking because I want to make a motherboard/cpu upgrade and I m totally pc blinded
Ideal would be 6600k overclocked (4 core). But if that it's too expensive you could get i3 6100/6300/6320 (2core + HT) and if you get good motherboard you could upgrade later to different skylake CPU (6600k/6700k). i3 aren't very good for other games since it's only 2 core, but it works for SC2 well.
You can also wait for AMD's Ryzen. It will be likely little slower than skylake in single thread, but the price per core should be better. Considering you will get low fps in SC2 under certain scenarios no matter what, I would prefer more cores which is more useful in other games/work. Personally I would wait and see how Ryzen performs if I could.
Thanks a lot for the reply. I ll keep that in mind when I upgrade. Yeah I read somewhere that there is no difference in sc2 between 2 core and 4 core. Btw I wonder what type of pc some guys who play coop on high settings with no fps drop!! on youtube have.
Also what do you mean by +HT?
Yes 2 vs 4 core should be about the same for SC2 with the same clock and architecture (if you are not streaming). HT is for "hyperthreading" in which case 2 + HT behaves like 4 core .The performance in multiple threads is a lot smaller than 4 core, but better than 2 core (usually +0-30%).
Most of people on youtube will likely have 6600k/6700k overclocked to 4.5+GHz. But if I was getting 4 fps certain situation, they won't get more than 10 fps for sure. And even midrange Haswell (last gen intel CPU) is fine too. So I woudn't stress single core performance too much.
On December 19 2016 05:08 Malhavoc wrote: I have a i5 6600K, and never a single problem. It may be just a bit over your budget, but since I have no issue at all, you can consider it as a upper threshold you can safely stay a bit under, to save some cash.
Same here, very happy with it so far!
Maybe I shouldn't have said anything. In my last match I played with Kerrigan who went mass lings on Rifts of Khoral. Just before the last shards I did experience some lag with all the zombies, marines and lings (on brutal)... Maybe there is something with Stukov that isn't exactly optimal?
From my point of view, the awful experience tend to happen when 1 condition or a combination of thom happen:
-It's Lock&Load on Ulnar (guessing it had to do with control points) -It's Oblivion Express/Trains on Tarsonis when trains are running, especially when it's 2 of them at once -Maybe Vermillion Problem cause of the lava? Unsure -I play vs air zerg or ling/bling/scourges/swarm hosts/abberations/vipers (I suspect it's because swarm hosts and brood lords spawn more units while the way glaives work make mutas even worse) -Mutation features mutators that spawn units -Raynor that goes bio -Vorazun and all the cloaking -Zagara -Kerrigan that goes ling/mutas/brood lords -Abathur swarm hosts -Stukov
That's all on lowest GFX settings So for anyone else, maybe they can tell that those specific conditions have something that require more from the cpu.
Stukov is probably the worse for lag. 2 waves of civilians turning into a bunch of broodlings while you also spawn a fuckton of infested troopers and move in is going to lag people.
still not sure what the best opening for Stukov is. I usually start with doublegas, then go 1 ebay and start 1/1, 1 rax with addon so I have the first civilian spawn + a few marines for clearing the expansion rocks. The first wave of enemies can be defeated with infestation.
After that I quickly add on a factory and an armory so all upgrades are unlocked and add a second eBay to double-upgrade 2/2 and 3/3.
Then I simply keep improving my undead with all the available upgrades and add like 5 more rax. a few bunkers to strategical points, but I keep it at 6-8 usually. I don't find the bunker upgrades nessessary, only on temple where they defend the entrances i get them.
To attack I wait for the Apocalisk (full mastery points in cooldown reduction), get maximum marines, unload all the bunkers and use the apo as tank for them in front of all the zombies. To invade bases i usually infest the enemy buildings to soak fire with the broodlings. works quite well.
CC Gas Gas Rax Jumping Upgrade->Queue all the other upgrades asap Gas Gas Eng Bay Fact Armory + 2nd Eng Bay
Basically, the idea is to focus on economy and upgrades, teching only so fast that you keep your money low. I also mentioned this before, but I never make Marines except for the last push if I need them.
Build order that revolves around mass marines: CC Rax (@400 mins first civilian upgrade) 4 gases Double ebay Tech lab Factory Armory/Starport
Get all upgrades as soon as possible. I make sure to move civilian compound in between upgades and I add maybe 4-5 raxes for bursts of infested marines. The build order delays upgrades for a strong early game mineral economy. It's pretty safe and versatile.
If you're only going to make infested marines/troopers as stukov, do you really need all the gases? I generally give one or both of my nat gases to ally novas, vorazuns, and maybe even zagara, kerrigan, and air raynors.
I usually only take the two in my main for the upgrades and end up floating afterwards. I suppose after all upgrades are done, I can sacrifice those 6 SCVs and just have 6 more marines that I can spawn. I've only made factory units once ever, and that was on this mutation because I got the "free" gift so I spammed 5 diamondbacks out of my factory and then completely forgot about them. That's just how I enjoy Stukov though; mass civilians/marines. I also only yesterday realized that the arrow icon in the infested building wasn't to rally that building or move it, but it was an upgrade for civilians to leap. I went from 1-15 and never clicked the button until I was scrambling to click on free stuff (I got that gift 3 times) and hit the button by mistake.
On December 20 2016 12:50 29 fps wrote: If you're only going to make infested marines/troopers as stukov, do you really need all the gases? I generally give one or both of my nat gases to ally novas, vorazuns, and maybe even zagara, kerrigan, and air raynors.
4 gases at that point is only to get out all upgrades as soon as possible. 6 upgrades at e-bay, 2 at command center, 2 at rax tech lab and like 5-6 upgrades for civilians and the fact that I delay refineries means I really need a lot of gas fast. I only go for this BO if there is a undefended natural base to take. But yeah I eventually start floating gas or I donate geysers to nova/vorazun.
There really must be a ton of bad stukovs out there or something because usually when I level a commander up I never have a problem but twice last night (I was level 7 then once again later level 9) i had people say something along the lines of "sorry not going to carry another stukov" and just leave immediately.
Both were on Brutal, both I ended up winning quite easily. I almost like it better when my ally leaves as stukov on some missions because then I get 4 bases worth of minerals and then the true infested marine swarm comes out to play lol.
I think a lot of coop players are bad period. And bad players tend to be even worse when they play technical or difficult commanders. No decent player should be worried about having to carry a brutal mission if your commander level is 15 or above. Although I do find it annoying to have an ally who isn't doing anything, I rarely leave for that reason.
For my last level on Stukov I had a Nova player complain that he didn't want to carry me. Needless to say he was pretty bad and I ended up carrying the whole mission myself. While I was crushing the mission (let's be honest brutal isn't hard) my ally kept on saying he was carrying and that I didn't build real units (went marines). Checked stats after game and I was higher on all accounts. Feels so good to be so carried I could actually carry my ally
So I may be a bit late on this since I've been reading through some posts from around June but I have a question regarding Abathur's mutas.
I saw several posts talking about how amazing and strong those are, but I simply can't really make them work that well when I tried. Admittedly, I think I got unlucky on my tries: First game vs terran mech, mass viking, BC, Raven and Thors made it hard to keep my mutas alive enough to snowball in any meaningful way. Second game vs Viper Scourge so no chance at all to snowball. Third game had a really good Stukov ally who was so fast that I didnt have time to build up my muta count at all and just ended up spamming roaches/ravager so I could contribute.
In all those games I just ended up going back to ravager/queen/devourer, my most solid comp so far that always seems to work well.
I'm assuming that I should just do something else versus the terran air and scourge/viper counter comps.
So I'd like to know how you make this build work without it being a lot slower to reach critical mass than a ground comp. What's the build order? Do you still get your first brutalisk or do you feed all the biomass to your mutas? Do you rush some mutas out? I tried doing that but they were really few and not very strong without any of the muta or air upgrades (since the spire just finished and waiting for upgrades means you're slow).
On December 24 2016 06:27 blingi wrote: So I may be a bit late on this since I've been reading through some posts from around June but I have a question regarding Abathur's mutas.
I saw several posts talking about how amazing and strong those are, but I simply can't really make them work that well when I tried. Admittedly, I think I got unlucky on my tries: First game vs terran mech, mass viking, BC, Raven and Thors made it hard to keep my mutas alive enough to snowball in any meaningful way. Second game vs Viper Scourge so no chance at all to snowball. Third game had a really good Stukov ally who was so fast that I didnt have time to build up my muta count at all and just ended up spamming roaches/ravager so I could contribute.
In all those games I just ended up going back to ravager/queen/devourer, my most solid comp so far that always seems to work well.
I'm assuming that I should just do something else versus the terran air and scourge/viper counter comps.
So I'd like to know how you make this build work without it being a lot slower to reach critical mass than a ground comp. What's the build order? Do you still get your first brutalisk or do you feed all the biomass to your mutas? Do you rush some mutas out? I tried doing that but they were really few and not very strong without any of the muta or air upgrades (since the spire just finished and waiting for upgrades means you're slow).
Thanks in advance!
You're probably reading about Mutalisks before they were nerfed. All of Abathur's units were nerfed in the following way in patch 3.6.0: Bio Mass Bonuses
Attack speed bonus reduced from 2% to 1% per stack.
Life bonus changed from +5 Life (flat value) to +3% Life (percentage based).
Though this affected all Abathur units, it hit Mutalisks the hardest because they had such low base HP and high DPS. The nerf heavily reduces their survivability. This turned Abathur Mutalisks from the best unit in the game to a top 15 unit that's slightly more situational. On most non-mutation maps against most compositions, it's possible to open Mutalisks. However, this requires some skill and experience so I'd probably not recommend it for newer players. Against Scourge compositions, Terran air, and Terran SpecObs(Reaper/Maruarder/Liberator), you need Devourers with their splash upgrade before you can get any Mutalisks.
Mutalisks are ideal for Oblivion Express and OE mutations typically, because Abathur generally has very low DPS with his ground army while Mutalisks deal really good damage against Trains.
On December 24 2016 06:27 blingi wrote: So I may be a bit late on this since I've been reading through some posts from around June but I have a question regarding Abathur's mutas.
I saw several posts talking about how amazing and strong those are, but I simply can't really make them work that well when I tried. Admittedly, I think I got unlucky on my tries: First game vs terran mech, mass viking, BC, Raven and Thors made it hard to keep my mutas alive enough to snowball in any meaningful way. Second game vs Viper Scourge so no chance at all to snowball. Third game had a really good Stukov ally who was so fast that I didnt have time to build up my muta count at all and just ended up spamming roaches/ravager so I could contribute.
In all those games I just ended up going back to ravager/queen/devourer, my most solid comp so far that always seems to work well.
I'm assuming that I should just do something else versus the terran air and scourge/viper counter comps.
So I'd like to know how you make this build work without it being a lot slower to reach critical mass than a ground comp. What's the build order? Do you still get your first brutalisk or do you feed all the biomass to your mutas? Do you rush some mutas out? I tried doing that but they were really few and not very strong without any of the muta or air upgrades (since the spire just finished and waiting for upgrades means you're slow).
Thanks in advance!
You're probably reading about Mutalisks before they were nerfed. All of Abathur's units were nerfed in the following way in patch 3.6.0: Bio Mass Bonuses
Attack speed bonus reduced from 2% to 1% per stack.
Life bonus changed from +5 Life (flat value) to +3% Life (percentage based).
Though this affected all Abathur units, it hit Mutalisks the hardest because they had such low base HP and high DPS. The nerf heavily reduces their survivability. This turned Abathur Mutalisks from the best unit in the game to a top 15 unit that's slightly more situational. On most non-mutation maps against most compositions, it's possible to open Mutalisks. However, this requires some skill and experience so I'd probably not recommend it for newer players. Against Scourge compositions, Terran air, and Terran SpecObs(Reaper/Maruarder/Liberator), you need Devourers with their splash upgrade before you can get any Mutalisks.
Mutalisks are ideal for Oblivion Express and OE mutations typically, because Abathur generally has very low DPS with his ground army while Mutalisks deal really good damage against Trains.
Thank you, although that's sad to hear. Is there any updated guide/dicussion on the strength of his comps now? So far just queen/roach/ravager with some late air added seems to be solid but the dps is kind of low except for devourer vs air.
Opening roaches and transitioning to mutas is actually quite good. I don't like to have leviathans with my mutas at all so I disable auto transform to leviathans. I think it's very important to get your geysers up ASAP as you will be gas starved the entire mission as it is.
If you're looking for another fun high dps playstyles with abathur I recommend mass ravagers. Extra splash damage, biomass and no friendly fire means they can burst down any compositions really fast.
On December 25 2016 00:56 krlwlzn wrote: Opening roaches and transitioning to mutas is actually quite good. I don't like to have leviathans with my mutas at all so I disable auto transform to leviathans. I think it's very important to get your geysers up ASAP as you will be gas starved the entire mission as it is.
If you're looking for another fun high dps playstyles with abathur I recommend mass ravagers. Extra splash damage, biomass and no friendly fire means they can burst down any compositions really fast.
That's what I usually do, mass ravager with some unupgraded roaches for the slow and a bunch of queens for the heal and at 140-160 supply (or earlier depending on enemy comp) I usually add a bunch of aoe devourers if there is any air or voidshards/trashers I can hit.
Just wanted to try mutas as well after I've heard how good they are but so far, every time it wasnt great and just slowed me down on my way to an invincible deathball or outright failed vs some enemy comps.
Gonna try the roach into muta stuff again when I dont face terran air or scourges though so thanks for the advice
I think Roach, Viper, Devourer is usually the go to now for Abathur. Mix in other units as desired depending on your situation, but most maps have objectives that can be hit by air to air fire so massing devourers for air superiority is fine.
With vipers suppressing ground units your roaches, brutalisks, and leviathans will eventually work their way through everything without dying while the devourers wipe the sky clean of the real threat units.
EPT
