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On December 15 2016 06:12 Rizare wrote:
I haven't play him yet but helped a friend a bit to lvl up Stukov to avoid queue time so I didn't have a chance to play him yet.
So what's the opening for him on rock vs non-rock maps and how do you usually play him?
Personally I went always CC first, 2 gass, ebay, racks, +1 attack, upgrade compound. First infested to clear rocks and defend with Infest Structure. On maps with enemy on your natural Apocalisk can clear it reasonable fast.
I have tried different stuff. But I like the most after that massing bunkers to 12-14, after that getting 2 starports and massing queens. 1 ebay: attacks first and later 1-2 armor. Armory: armor for Queens, attack does nothing. Bunkers are purely to produce Infested Troopers and don't engage. I don't make Infested Marines usually. Banshee comps can be good against certain compositions.
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Am I crazy or can you not shift-queue buildings to root in fog? there's creep under the fog but everywhere is invalid until they actually get there
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Ugh, nooo. Played with I'm guessing a lvl 14 good Stukov who spawned lot of infesteds to overrun the map and basically solo without me. In other words, he makes the game unplayable for me. How much input is needed to play as him? Because he's not someone I'll play often with if I have to always have a bad time whenever he's in the game.
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It's not hard to outmass and just outpush a Stukov; most of the power comes in his resourceless infested civilian pushes, which are more for grinding out games than straight up solo carrying.
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Grinded him to 15 with mostly mass infested marines, it was what worked best for me. Not sure about his other units they felt pretty weird, maybe I used them wrong. His calldowns are pretty sweet and his infestation works on enemy buildings which makes it handy when pushing 
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Just hit 15. Thoughts on masteries? I went for Infest Structure CD/Apocalisk CD/Infested Infantry Duration
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I gotta say he seems the weakest commander yet, at low levels. I failed many times on brutal missions before lev4, something I don't recall happening on any other commander. Calldowns should make those situations more bearable ofc. But even with mass bunker strategy his push felt very weak if your ally isn't doing much to help with it. But again, I only talk of how he felt at lev1-2, I'm sure he starts to feel better now with apocalisk and few upgs (32->64 civilians) received.
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United States8476 Posts
I've played all the commanders at level 1 recently and Zagara is much weaker at lower levels. Stukov is bad at lower levels, but I think mostly because he's hard to get used to. For example, it's not intuitive that his Bunkers are his best unit overall. I didn't even make a Bunker until I was level 3 because I didn't know they could uproot, move around, and attack.
- The big mistake most people make is making Infested Terrans imo when Bunkers are so much better in every way. The only time I would ever make Infested Terrans is to go all-in in the final push on.
- Diamondbacks are meh, Bunkers are just better.
- Siege Tanks are situationally useful in defensive missions.
- Liberators are bad and seem to be too fragile even after their upgrade.
- Banshees are good vs certain unit compositions.
- Queens are good vs certain compositions because they're so cheap and regen their energy so fast. Fungal isn't good because of the short range and projectile weapon. Spawn Broodling is good though especially vs units like Liberators.
But yea, Bunkers and Infested Civilians ftw.
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How are you using bunkers? Just uproot and go ham?
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United States8476 Posts
Basically yes, just make sure you send them in with Civilians.
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Played Oblivion Express with Stukov. Bunkers, tanks and repairing SCVs at the common point are simply awesome...
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I agree with Monk on everything except I don't send bunkers to battle. Losing any is costly and you have to have a lot of them to spawn big enough waves.
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Picking up a few levels, definitely feeling bunkers & 3/3 free units with occasional marine floods. A few diamondbacks are kinda nice to pull air units down for your civilians.
He doesn't seem bad but he's unwieldy in a way that makes any advantage he has not seem worth. The wait for your units to traverse the map later in the game is pretty annoying.
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Later in the game you should be moving your compound and barracks forward; it's why he has global creep spread
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Yeah I've been trying to remember to do that but they're still pretty damn slow. the map it really annoyed me was vermillion where the expo is central and where you might need to go in between lava spouts is semi-random. Probably would've been less noticable if my partner wasn't a raynor who built 6 BCs and parked them on lava spouts over and over.
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Vermillion Problem is certainly more annoying, my strategy there is park on central area and then basically mass select my zombies on other islands.
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Indeed the first levels aren't that nice for him. Even when I started getting the playstyle, it just wasn't able to carry the game on his own: a bad ally would just mean defeat.
However, when you start getting your calldowns, things improves quite a bit. Still not maxed him to 15, but he actually doesn't seem a powerhouse, especially because his main trait get stomped by AoE badly.
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I've been slowly grinding up stukov. Rushing civilian upgrades is definitely optimal given how much pushing power is locked away in having massive numbers of civilians.
And yeah bunkers are a good unit. The first couple games I tried to build actual units and it just didn't go well. Bunkers are super beefy, do a good amount of damage, and are very good fire support for the civilians. They are very bulky so probably no more than a dozen or so is best, otherwise they just kinda run around and get in the way.
I usually move up ~3-4 barracks so for my final pushes I can just send in a big wave of infested marines, bunkers and a double wave of civilians.
He definitely feels very different from all the other commanders. Pretty steep learning curve though.
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I would hardly call it a mistake to go for mass marines. I grinded to level 14 using only mass marine strategies and it was never hard. After level 14, I decided to go mass bunker (because of bunker bonus) which was undoubtedly more fun and more efficient. The low apm aspect of mass marines I found was really boring. Just reposition barracks and set rally point. Then spam units in massive waves.
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Having made it to lev12 now, yea he hasn't had any issues since lev3-4, mostly end up carrying brutal missions since then so he's not weak at all. But I would say lev3+4 being pretty big powerspikes, lev3 alone doubles his civilian count (mid-game onwards).
I do dislike this lack of macro mechanics in last 2 commanders. Nova ended up being cool as she has more micro than you can manage even, but Stukov doesn't get punished at all for having 5k minerals. I almost feel like the safest way to play as him is to not use money beyond the tech/x amount of bunkers/raxes. Like on the void defense mission I just made 4 bunkers+2raxes at each of the 3 defend points, only so I can make 40 marines when needed. But never made any units as I haven't found to think any of his units are that good, except maaaybe queens.
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EPT
