EPTFezvez's' Co-op guide and hero review - Page 25
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GamerJatt
63 Posts
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The Bottle
242 Posts
Raynor requires some multitasking, keeping track of your rally points, and no army button! (I usually use it with him except when I'm going mech.) His calldowns are great for the bonus, especially banshee since you get sight of the bonus when it spawns (I think.... if it doesn't, just use a scan). Raynor, of course, is the best for late expansions, since you can just build multiple orbitals in the main and explode your mineral income that way. I went against terran air, so I went marines, medics, and vikings. Vikings were incredibly useful late game. Early game, it's really strong to wait for enemy drops at the edge of your base and just snipe the dropships. Zagara can pretty much be played like normal, with a few minor exceptions. You should try not to rally your baneling nest to Zagara (I did anyway, the banelings are free so who cares?) and you can use scourge to intercept dropships (like in the temple mission). If they're air, definitely get that scourge nest quickly to save yourself against air waves. Otherwise, roach drops are great for stalling remotely if you're not there to intercept an attack wave. With Abathur I do my most common build. Ground army roach/queen, air army mutas. Put overseers in both armies, and they can basically do their own separate things mid game, as long as you make sure they're not both dying. By mid game I was clearing a base with my ground army, and clearing completely separate crystal pickups with my mutas. | ||
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Rizare
Canada593 Posts
On June 15 2016 12:29 Xsyq wrote: It's easy to win with Karax here, you just need to make units instead of tower defense. Put all your mastery points into unit cost, reconstruction beam, and chrono, skip most forge defense and solar core upgrades (just get solar levels 2 and maybe 3), and focus on attack and armor instead. Grab a twilight council for gateway upgrades and a robo bay for Shadow Cannon and just go Immortal/Energizer/Sentinel. Save your energy for attack waves instead of spamming it like normal and you'll have plenty. How do you deal with zerg bling/lings/vipers/scourges composition when you go Karax army? Only solution I can think off is stun with orbital strikes while army runs away so I don't lose it while my game is choppy. | ||
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Xsyq
143 Posts
On June 15 2016 14:17 Rizare wrote: How do you deal with zerg bling/lings/vipers/scourges composition when you go Karax army? Only solution I can think off is stun with orbital strikes while army runs away so I don't lose it while my game is choppy. You never want to engage vipers with your army as Karax, especially with lag. I've never actually gotten zerg on the Vermillion Problem (terran twice and the rest protoss) but putting obs along the attack routes in scanning mode and saving Solar Lance for the attack waves works wonders on other maps and should work here. Any vipers on the map naturally can be sniped with obs, shadow cannon, and/or orbital strikes. | ||
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KameDemaK
10 Posts
Donny, dear, it's OK to be a troll, but being an A-hole has its limits. If we don't exhaust the planet's natural resources, the planet explodes, so what should we do, genius? xD At least I agree with him that we shouldn't be killing endangered species... were it not that we have Zerg allies that can reconstruct those species by incorporating them into the Swarm. Have a word with Abathur and Dehaka, Donny, dear. xD I really like the map and Donny as the troll commentator. Devil's Playground was a fan favorite from WoL I believe, it's good to have it in Co-op. It did feel too easy though, especially because I've only played mutations recently. I recommend you guys to not include your mastery points when you play normal missions and not mutations, it's already quite easy as it is on Brutal. Unless you are knowingly playing with a not so skilled player who needs to be carried. | ||
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The Bottle
242 Posts
On June 16 2016 02:10 KameDemaK wrote: I really like the map and Donny as the troll commentator. Devil's Playground was a fan favorite from WoL I believe, it's good to have it in Co-op. It did feel too easy though, especially because I've only played mutations recently. I recommend you guys to not include your mastery points when you play normal missions and not mutations, it's already quite easy as it is on Brutal. Unless you are knowingly playing with a not so skilled player who needs to be carried. I love the Devil's Playground, but this mission hardly feels like it at all. The only common thing is the lava. This one feels a lot more like the terrazine canister goliath mission in WoL (or its ripoff version in HotS, the muta biomass collecting mission), with some obvious differences (you change the clock by getting the pieces yourself, not by stopping your enemy from getting the pieces). The thing is, some of my favourite missions are the ones that take advantage of the fact that terran buildings can lift. For example, there's the Supernova, the banshee mission which happens to be my favourite mission in all the SC2 campaigns. I'd love an implementation of Supernova in co-op, but I don't know how they can replace the base-lifting requirement without neutering the mission. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On June 16 2016 05:43 The Bottle wrote:I love the Devil's Playground, but this mission hardly feels like it at all. The only common thing is the lava. This one feels a lot more like the terrazine canister goliath mission in WoL (or its ripoff version in HotS, the muta biomass collecting mission), with some obvious differences (you change the clock by getting the pieces yourself, not by stopping your enemy from getting the pieces). The thing is, some of my favourite missions are the ones that take advantage of the fact that terran buildings can lift. For example, there's the Supernova, the banshee mission which happens to be my favourite mission in all the SC2 campaigns. I'd love an implementation of Supernova in co-op, but I don't know how they can replace the base-lifting requirement without neutering the mission. I would be surprised if you couldn't make zerg buildings burrow elsewhere and protoss to warp. Another solution is to have a moving platform like in one LotV mission. That might be better, because you can't lift supply depots and giving free 200 supply as in Supernova would mitigate Artanis's passive. | ||
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Malhavoc
Italy308 Posts
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Jer99
Canada8160 Posts
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CeaselessDC
5 Posts
On June 16 2016 22:39 Jer99 wrote: With Raynor, I've just been missing OC's (~16 of them) as early as possible, and mass muling. It's a slow start, but by the end of the game I've mined out both of my bases and have an excess of 10k minerals with 20 barracks dropping reinforcements everywhere Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound very efficient to me to build many OCs as early as possible nor as many as possible. After all each OC cost 11 marines that you can put into use earlier in the game... in late game(20min?) every other commander has more or less an army that doesn't die, or in zagara's case all suicide units that doesn't cost much but wrecks everything on impact. So raynor's late game capability doesn't really stand out. IMO a more balanced start between econ/army should be better for raynor | ||
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Icysoul
Canada254 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Being able to drop marines 30 supply at a time is pretty fun tbh. You can simply outmacro storms and fungals rather than dodging them. | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
i usually go for ~8 barracks and 3 starports | ||
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Jer99
Canada8160 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/agkNVtR.jpg) ended up floating a CC to both allied bases, mined out the entire map. I think it's possible to max before 9 minutes, needs some tweaking though | ||
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lastride
2390 Posts
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
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MrTic
60 Posts
I played Artanis at 30+ masteries, and I'm not a pro so take this with a grain of salt :D It does help when you can warp in reinforcements, and my partner was a Raynor. Btw, Artanis' guardian shell may save units but it's almost useless on this mutation as you're left with half army on red and only moments away from being engulfed in flames of doom xd Edit Raynor was good actually, he could restore his meaty army with medics in case guardian shell kicked in. The enemy was Zerg, so that could be a problem. All those melee units killed in flames do some damage. | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
Thanks! Edit : Another wave of polish on the guide | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
At level 5 : Vorazun > Swann/Abathur > Kerrigan > Zagara/Raynor/Artanis > Karax At level 15 with no mastery : Vorazun/Zagara/Raynor/Abathur >Swann/Kerrigan > Artanis/Karax At 60+ masteries : Vorazun/Raynor/Abathur >Zagara/Karax/Kerrigan > Swann/Artanis Basically, the commanders that benefit most from masteries are Karax and Kerrigan, mainly because of the resource cost reduction. I also feel that Zagara has more trouble holding her own in mutations, but that may be because most mutations involve some random AoE damage these days. Kerrigan is a bit special. If there is little air, she is easily Tier 1. But her anti-air is just terrible, perhaps the worst in the game, so overall, I put her behind the "safe" choices. | ||
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