• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:54
CEST 15:54
KST 22:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202550RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 1v1 Fastest Support! ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 995 users

TL Map Contest 6 - Results! - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
63 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
IeZaeL
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy991 Posts
May 19 2015 12:50 GMT
#41
Ecosphere is a bad map , both layout and aesthetics. If it makes ladder im going to be super angry.
Author of Coda and Eastwatch.
Biedrik
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
United States94 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-19 12:59:45
May 19 2015 12:59 GMT
#42
On May 19 2015 21:42 Ingvar wrote:
I hope that means that next season we'll have something along the lines:
- Inferno pools

Whoa, we found the one fan of this map. =O
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
May 19 2015 13:03 GMT
#43
On May 19 2015 21:50 IeZaeL wrote:
Ecosphere is a bad map , both layout and aesthetics. If it makes ladder im going to be super angry.

And Blizzard sure doesn't want to make Iezael super angry !
rly ?
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
May 19 2015 13:19 GMT
#44
On May 19 2015 21:59 Biedrik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 21:42 Ingvar wrote:
I hope that means that next season we'll have something along the lines:
- Inferno pools

Whoa, we found the one fan of this map. =O

That - sign means he wants to REMOVE Inferno pools.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Meerel
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany713 Posts
May 19 2015 13:53 GMT
#45
gratz and lets hope that bridgehead gets into ladder
SDMF
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
May 19 2015 14:07 GMT
#46
--- Nuked ---
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
May 19 2015 14:08 GMT
#47
Grats to the winners!
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
May 19 2015 14:44 GMT
#48
Grats to the winner, deserved
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
May 19 2015 16:59 GMT
#49
On May 19 2015 16:58 Gwavajuice wrote:
Well it makes sense I suppose.

I hope I'll be as much happilly surprised by Terraform as I've been disappointed by Echo

+ Show Spoiler +
My grumpy morning moment :

/rant on

Imho, by trying to a) be "not standard", b) influence balance or c) create a new meta, most mapmakers are forgetting what should be their first goal : make fun and strategically interesting maps. As a result, most of these maps are very rigid and all look the same ("wow uvantak won with slopes everywhere? lemme put slopes everywhere" / "wow algue got in SPL, GSL and SSL with a back door? lemme put backdoors everywhere" / "rocks? they want rocks? where is this random rocks generator button???") and ironically enough it's not even sure they are balanced in the end.

Terraform is a good example, it once had a gold base that could have been taken as a third or as a gangnam terran style we could have had a whacky unusual map, but under pressure of other map makers this gold base was moved to the most boring spot possible and will probably never be a key feature of this map.

Luckily enough, Terraform has some space for fun, esp is you like the sound of zerglings being toasted by colossi or tanks, but the other ones, omg! it's down the point you would wonder if some are actually playing the game at all. Noah's Ark? gimme a break, nobody in their right mind would enjoy playing on this

The ultimate fail is that by trying to be "non standard", they make all their maps end up look the same, by trying to influence balance, they force players to play the same way over and over and kill all possibility of balance shifting, by trying to change the meta, they make unplayable maps.

I hope that if there is ever a TLMC 7, fun will be the main goal again, there must be some mapmakers somewhere that still like to play this game...

Until then I will just be there, dreaming of King Sejong's Station's come back in the ladder

/rant off


dissapointed by echo??? Why? What did I do now?
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
May 19 2015 17:13 GMT
#50
On May 20 2015 01:59 Uvantak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 16:58 Gwavajuice wrote:
Well it makes sense I suppose.

I hope I'll be as much happilly surprised by Terraform as I've been disappointed by Echo

+ Show Spoiler +
My grumpy morning moment :

/rant on

Imho, by trying to a) be "not standard", b) influence balance or c) create a new meta, most mapmakers are forgetting what should be their first goal : make fun and strategically interesting maps. As a result, most of these maps are very rigid and all look the same ("wow uvantak won with slopes everywhere? lemme put slopes everywhere" / "wow algue got in SPL, GSL and SSL with a back door? lemme put backdoors everywhere" / "rocks? they want rocks? where is this random rocks generator button???") and ironically enough it's not even sure they are balanced in the end.

Terraform is a good example, it once had a gold base that could have been taken as a third or as a gangnam terran style we could have had a whacky unusual map, but under pressure of other map makers this gold base was moved to the most boring spot possible and will probably never be a key feature of this map.

Luckily enough, Terraform has some space for fun, esp is you like the sound of zerglings being toasted by colossi or tanks, but the other ones, omg! it's down the point you would wonder if some are actually playing the game at all. Noah's Ark? gimme a break, nobody in their right mind would enjoy playing on this

The ultimate fail is that by trying to be "non standard", they make all their maps end up look the same, by trying to influence balance, they force players to play the same way over and over and kill all possibility of balance shifting, by trying to change the meta, they make unplayable maps.

I hope that if there is ever a TLMC 7, fun will be the main goal again, there must be some mapmakers somewhere that still like to play this game...

Until then I will just be there, dreaming of King Sejong's Station's come back in the ladder

/rant off


dissapointed by echo??? Why? What did I do now?

Not enough shoutouts to me, need at least 3 more
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
May 19 2015 17:22 GMT
#51
On May 20 2015 01:59 Uvantak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 16:58 Gwavajuice wrote:
Well it makes sense I suppose.

I hope I'll be as much happilly surprised by Terraform as I've been disappointed by Echo

+ Show Spoiler +
My grumpy morning moment :

/rant on

Imho, by trying to a) be "not standard", b) influence balance or c) create a new meta, most mapmakers are forgetting what should be their first goal : make fun and strategically interesting maps. As a result, most of these maps are very rigid and all look the same ("wow uvantak won with slopes everywhere? lemme put slopes everywhere" / "wow algue got in SPL, GSL and SSL with a back door? lemme put backdoors everywhere" / "rocks? they want rocks? where is this random rocks generator button???") and ironically enough it's not even sure they are balanced in the end.

Terraform is a good example, it once had a gold base that could have been taken as a third or as a gangnam terran style we could have had a whacky unusual map, but under pressure of other map makers this gold base was moved to the most boring spot possible and will probably never be a key feature of this map.

Luckily enough, Terraform has some space for fun, esp is you like the sound of zerglings being toasted by colossi or tanks, but the other ones, omg! it's down the point you would wonder if some are actually playing the game at all. Noah's Ark? gimme a break, nobody in their right mind would enjoy playing on this

The ultimate fail is that by trying to be "non standard", they make all their maps end up look the same, by trying to influence balance, they force players to play the same way over and over and kill all possibility of balance shifting, by trying to change the meta, they make unplayable maps.

I hope that if there is ever a TLMC 7, fun will be the main goal again, there must be some mapmakers somewhere that still like to play this game...

Until then I will just be there, dreaming of King Sejong's Station's come back in the ladder

/rant off


dissapointed by echo??? Why? What did I do now?

It has to be multiple maps at the same time or it will disappoint someone.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
May 19 2015 17:43 GMT
#52
I'm wicked excited! I agree with the top three maps here more than I did with the results for the last two TLMCs. Two of my three favored maps were in the top three (Bridgehead and Terraform (no Noah's Ark )). I really hope Blizzard continues to support the mapmaking scene.

Congrats to NegativeZero, Semmo, and Enekh!
Gwavajuice
Profile Joined June 2014
France1810 Posts
May 19 2015 17:54 GMT
#53
On May 20 2015 01:59 Uvantak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 16:58 Gwavajuice wrote:
Well it makes sense I suppose.

I hope I'll be as much happilly surprised by Terraform as I've been disappointed by Echo

+ Show Spoiler +
My grumpy morning moment :

/rant on

Imho, by trying to a) be "not standard", b) influence balance or c) create a new meta, most mapmakers are forgetting what should be their first goal : make fun and strategically interesting maps. As a result, most of these maps are very rigid and all look the same ("wow uvantak won with slopes everywhere? lemme put slopes everywhere" / "wow algue got in SPL, GSL and SSL with a back door? lemme put backdoors everywhere" / "rocks? they want rocks? where is this random rocks generator button???") and ironically enough it's not even sure they are balanced in the end.

Terraform is a good example, it once had a gold base that could have been taken as a third or as a gangnam terran style we could have had a whacky unusual map, but under pressure of other map makers this gold base was moved to the most boring spot possible and will probably never be a key feature of this map.

Luckily enough, Terraform has some space for fun, esp is you like the sound of zerglings being toasted by colossi or tanks, but the other ones, omg! it's down the point you would wonder if some are actually playing the game at all. Noah's Ark? gimme a break, nobody in their right mind would enjoy playing on this

The ultimate fail is that by trying to be "non standard", they make all their maps end up look the same, by trying to influence balance, they force players to play the same way over and over and kill all possibility of balance shifting, by trying to change the meta, they make unplayable maps.

I hope that if there is ever a TLMC 7, fun will be the main goal again, there must be some mapmakers somewhere that still like to play this game...

Until then I will just be there, dreaming of King Sejong's Station's come back in the ladder

/rant off


dissapointed by echo??? Why? What did I do now?


Good stuff : laughing at how you managed to cover all the map with blueish anal sex toys and trolled everybody with it
Bad stuff : playing on this map.
Dear INno and all the former STX boys.
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
May 19 2015 18:15 GMT
#54
On May 20 2015 02:54 Gwavajuice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2015 01:59 Uvantak wrote:
On May 19 2015 16:58 Gwavajuice wrote:
Well it makes sense I suppose.

I hope I'll be as much happilly surprised by Terraform as I've been disappointed by Echo

+ Show Spoiler +
My grumpy morning moment :

/rant on

Imho, by trying to a) be "not standard", b) influence balance or c) create a new meta, most mapmakers are forgetting what should be their first goal : make fun and strategically interesting maps. As a result, most of these maps are very rigid and all look the same ("wow uvantak won with slopes everywhere? lemme put slopes everywhere" / "wow algue got in SPL, GSL and SSL with a back door? lemme put backdoors everywhere" / "rocks? they want rocks? where is this random rocks generator button???") and ironically enough it's not even sure they are balanced in the end.

Terraform is a good example, it once had a gold base that could have been taken as a third or as a gangnam terran style we could have had a whacky unusual map, but under pressure of other map makers this gold base was moved to the most boring spot possible and will probably never be a key feature of this map.

Luckily enough, Terraform has some space for fun, esp is you like the sound of zerglings being toasted by colossi or tanks, but the other ones, omg! it's down the point you would wonder if some are actually playing the game at all. Noah's Ark? gimme a break, nobody in their right mind would enjoy playing on this

The ultimate fail is that by trying to be "non standard", they make all their maps end up look the same, by trying to influence balance, they force players to play the same way over and over and kill all possibility of balance shifting, by trying to change the meta, they make unplayable maps.

I hope that if there is ever a TLMC 7, fun will be the main goal again, there must be some mapmakers somewhere that still like to play this game...

Until then I will just be there, dreaming of King Sejong's Station's come back in the ladder

/rant off


dissapointed by echo??? Why? What did I do now?


Good stuff : laughing at how you managed to cover all the map with blueish anal sex toys and trolled everybody with it
Bad stuff : playing on this map.

Ohhh sorry, I thought you had legit legit feedback, carry on then.
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
robopork
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States511 Posts
May 19 2015 20:36 GMT
#55
Terraform wasn't my absolute favorite but I'm really excited for mineral walls :D
“This left me alone to solve the coffee problem - a sort of catch-22, as in order to think straight I need caffeine, and in order to make that happen I need to think straight.”
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-20 06:54:03
May 20 2015 06:53 GMT
#56
congrats to the other winners, and apologies to everyone who hates my map
vibeo gane,
Rukis
Profile Joined April 2009
United States252 Posts
May 20 2015 07:16 GMT
#57
Specifically I think Terraform deserves the win but I would rather have Bridgehead and Ecosphere seen on ladder. Compared to these to Terraform just seems like a regular map you would find on the ladder imo with base layout etc.
Flash was the Genius, Nada was the true god.
Gwavajuice
Profile Joined June 2014
France1810 Posts
May 20 2015 09:32 GMT
#58
On May 20 2015 03:15 Uvantak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2015 02:54 Gwavajuice wrote:
On May 20 2015 01:59 Uvantak wrote:
On May 19 2015 16:58 Gwavajuice wrote:
Well it makes sense I suppose.

I hope I'll be as much happilly surprised by Terraform as I've been disappointed by Echo

+ Show Spoiler +
My grumpy morning moment :

/rant on

Imho, by trying to a) be "not standard", b) influence balance or c) create a new meta, most mapmakers are forgetting what should be their first goal : make fun and strategically interesting maps. As a result, most of these maps are very rigid and all look the same ("wow uvantak won with slopes everywhere? lemme put slopes everywhere" / "wow algue got in SPL, GSL and SSL with a back door? lemme put backdoors everywhere" / "rocks? they want rocks? where is this random rocks generator button???") and ironically enough it's not even sure they are balanced in the end.

Terraform is a good example, it once had a gold base that could have been taken as a third or as a gangnam terran style we could have had a whacky unusual map, but under pressure of other map makers this gold base was moved to the most boring spot possible and will probably never be a key feature of this map.

Luckily enough, Terraform has some space for fun, esp is you like the sound of zerglings being toasted by colossi or tanks, but the other ones, omg! it's down the point you would wonder if some are actually playing the game at all. Noah's Ark? gimme a break, nobody in their right mind would enjoy playing on this

The ultimate fail is that by trying to be "non standard", they make all their maps end up look the same, by trying to influence balance, they force players to play the same way over and over and kill all possibility of balance shifting, by trying to change the meta, they make unplayable maps.

I hope that if there is ever a TLMC 7, fun will be the main goal again, there must be some mapmakers somewhere that still like to play this game...

Until then I will just be there, dreaming of King Sejong's Station's come back in the ladder

/rant off


dissapointed by echo??? Why? What did I do now?


Good stuff : laughing at how you managed to cover all the map with blueish anal sex toys and trolled everybody with it
Bad stuff : playing on this map.

Ohhh sorry, I thought you had legit legit feedback, carry on then.



didn't want to derail the thread sorry, we're supposed to talk about TLMC6 not 5.
Dear INno and all the former STX boys.
Ketch
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands7285 Posts
May 20 2015 10:17 GMT
#59
GG! Hope to see a lot of these maps in active play!
Kyselin
Profile Joined December 2011
France35 Posts
May 21 2015 11:39 GMT
#60
Oh god, how do you put add-ons on your buildings on Bridgehead ? The main is too narrow !
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025 - Day 3
Serral vs ReynorLIVE!
Maru vs Cure
herO vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
EWC_Arena12988
ComeBackTV 2880
TaKeTV 665
Hui .621
JimRising 412
3DClanTV 361
Fuzer 337
Berry_CruncH335
Rex286
EnkiAlexander 197
mcanning157
Reynor157
CranKy Ducklings146
SpeCial77
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena12988
Hui .621
JimRising 412
Fuzer 337
Rex 286
Reynor 157
mcanning 157
SpeCial 77
UpATreeSC 60
ProTech44
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3672
Bisu 2533
Flash 2432
TY 1234
EffOrt 915
BeSt 825
Mini 814
Jaedong 568
Soulkey 513
ZerO 477
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 430
Stork 325
Soma 311
Hyuk 256
Zeus 191
Last 166
Larva 164
ToSsGirL 163
Mind 160
Pusan 158
Snow 131
Light 106
Hyun 105
JYJ65
JulyZerg 64
Dewaltoss 58
Sharp 41
sorry 33
Movie 27
zelot 27
sas.Sziky 26
soO 22
yabsab 19
Sacsri 13
scan(afreeca) 12
IntoTheRainbow 9
Noble 9
Terrorterran 5
Dota 2
420jenkins364
XcaliburYe336
syndereN264
League of Legends
febbydoto11
Counter-Strike
fl0m2536
sgares315
zeus127
markeloff90
Other Games
singsing2433
B2W.Neo1275
hiko890
Beastyqt612
crisheroes374
Happy197
QueenE62
ArmadaUGS57
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4114
• WagamamaTV591
League of Legends
• Nemesis3399
• Jankos1080
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
21h 7m
OSC
1d
CranKy Ducklings
1d 20h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.