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Matchfixing is a very serious offence and accusations of matchfixing should not be made lightly. Please avoid making accusations against specific individuals unless you have substantial proof, or until further information is released. (0620 KST) |
On January 23 2015 22:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
i know this won't be a popular opinion, but seeing this i would wish betting wouldn't be allowed at all.
This is just stupid and makes it too easy and too worthwile to try and fix matches...
On the other hand you probably wouldn't need these official sites anway, so there is that...
People are going to bet no matter what. In Asia there are huge "black" markets so to speak, where most of the match-fixing related betting happens anyway (in bigger sports, like football). Nobody knows to which extent, since they are "black" markets, so I think it's better to have some legit gambling sites offering betting.
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On January 23 2015 22:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
i know this won't be a popular opinion, but seeing this i would wish betting wouldn't be allowed at all.
This is just stupid and makes it too easy and too worthwile to try and fix matches...
Fully agree
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On January 23 2015 22:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
i know this won't be a popular opinion, but seeing this i would wish betting wouldn't be allowed at all.
This is just stupid and makes it too easy and too worthwile to try and fix matches...
On the other hand you probably wouldn't need these official sites anway, so there is that...
People who participate in the league arent allowed to bet on matches as is for most sports but the betting company is separate to pinnacle; you can bet on anything somewhere; I found a place to bet on myself to win the world series of poker once, you can bet on a hotdog eating competition, whatever - it cant be stopped the key is to not allow participants in any league you can bet on to bet against themselves or their teammates etc (no idea if thats whats happening here or not)
It's literally impossible to ban all sports betting and any widely watched sport will be bet on.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On January 23 2015 22:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
i know this won't be a popular opinion, but seeing this i would wish betting wouldn't be allowed at all.
This is just stupid and makes it too easy and too worthwile to try and fix matches...
On the other hand you probably wouldn't need these official sites anway, so there is that...
Prohibition is very rarely the answer
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I agree with Luolis, especially in regard to Innno's $198,000 in winnings alone. Kid doesn't play for dollars anymore, its for glory.
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On January 23 2015 22:48 Luolis wrote:
This looks really weird. Imo this looks like framing, but its too early to say yet. What makes me kinda suspicious is that Innovation and San would be match fixing even though they dont really need it considering how much theyve won.
To be fair you dont know their financial situation; there are poker 'champions' like Erick Lindgren and Chino Rheem who have millions of dollars in winnings yet both are broke, scammed people and are millions in debt.
Im not saying San or Innovation threw games for money, but 'they dont need the money' is not a reason to say that they didn't.
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On January 23 2015 22:52 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2015 22:48 Luolis wrote:
This looks really weird. Imo this looks like framing, but its too early to say yet. What makes me kinda suspicious is that Innovation and San would be match fixing even though they dont really need it considering how much theyve won. To be fair you dont know their financial situation; there are poker 'champions' like Erick Lindgren and Chino Rheem who have millions of dollars in winnings yet both are broke, scammed people and are millions in debt. Im not saying San or Innovation threw games for money, but 'they dont need the money' is not a reason to say that they didn't.
Im just curious, why they would risk their careers when they clearly have the skills to win more money from winning games rather than fixing matches.
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I seriously doubt San or Inno would match fix. Something tells me an error was made somewhere. If they find anything short of actual physical evidence I think this is all wild speculation. Are the match results really that unusual? Did either player really make any bad decisions? I just don't see it...
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On January 23 2015 22:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
i know this won't be a popular opinion, but seeing this i would wish betting wouldn't be allowed at all.
This is just stupid and makes it too easy and too worthwile to try and fix matches...
On the other hand you probably wouldn't need these official sites anway, so there is that...
Making things illegal oftentimes only worsen the situation
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 23 2015 22:54 HighdraL1sk wrote:
I seriously doubt San or Inno would match fix. Something tells me an error was made somewhere. If they find anything short of actual physical evidence I think this is all wild speculation. Are the match results really that unusual? Did either player really make any bad decisions? I just don't see it...
I don't think someone made mistakes that caused this (because the money involved makes it difficult to "accidentally" do anything), but I certainly don't think Innovation or Super or San or anyone else involved in the Pinnacle mess over the last few days is match fixing. I'm really curious about who might be messing with the betting lines, though, because right now it doesn't make much sense to me.
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Anybody checked the maps if marines suddenly got a health regeneration boost? 
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I just received more info from the guy who PM'd me earlier. He has suspicious line movement on a previous game involving one of the implicated players along with suspicious outcomes to two games in the series which fit with the player in question losing the games where the money came in on his opponent in suspicious fashion (his words not mine)
I haven't watched the series yet or seen his data, but i've encouraged him to come forward with it. Will comment further and consult with mods when ive watched the series in question and had his data on line movement confirmed
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
INno's name better not get tarnished for this...
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On January 23 2015 22:49 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2015 22:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
i know this won't be a popular opinion, but seeing this i would wish betting wouldn't be allowed at all.
This is just stupid and makes it too easy and too worthwile to try and fix matches... Fully agree
I agree too.
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On January 23 2015 22:54 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2015 22:52 Swoopae wrote:On January 23 2015 22:48 Luolis wrote:
This looks really weird. Imo this looks like framing, but its too early to say yet. What makes me kinda suspicious is that Innovation and San would be match fixing even though they dont really need it considering how much theyve won. To be fair you dont know their financial situation; there are poker 'champions' like Erick Lindgren and Chino Rheem who have millions of dollars in winnings yet both are broke, scammed people and are millions in debt. Im not saying San or Innovation threw games for money, but 'they dont need the money' is not a reason to say that they didn't. Im just curious, why they would risk their careers when they clearly have the skills to win more money from winning games rather than fixing matches.
Greed does things to people, and you probably underestimate how much money can be made throwing an occasional match, losing one game in a series could be worth a payment equal to an entire tournament win. Solar was offered 2k to throw a nothing match; players could easily be offered 5-10k or more to throw a single map in a major tournament where betting limits are higher. Sometimes betting limits can be 2k+ and on major stuff like Code S finals or WCS Finals the limits can be even higher (I remember they got to 10k max bet on one final of a dreamhack or iem or wcs, forget which)
I'm not saying it happened but these esports players even the elite are not truly wealthy. Living expenses add up, and throw in an unknown vice (gambling, addiction of some sort) or an expense (investment gone bad, family/friend loan gone wrong, emergency etc) and peoples financial situations can get bad.
The situation is baffling but MUST be investigated and soon, the longer Kespa wait to make a statement the more credibility they lose as it gives any match fixers if fixing occurred time to cover their tracks and of course of fixing did not occur then we as fans deserve to know what actually did occur as soon as possible.
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Nothing about this makes any sense. It doesn't make sense for a player like Bogus to be involved and it's just too retarded for the match fixers to try this again so soon. At the same time it's also too much of a coincidence to rule out foul play.
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On January 23 2015 22:57 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2015 22:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
i know this won't be a popular opinion, but seeing this i would wish betting wouldn't be allowed at all.
This is just stupid and makes it too easy and too worthwile to try and fix matches...
On the other hand you probably wouldn't need these official sites anway, so there is that... Making things illegal oftentimes only worsen the situation
Yeah i know, there would be betting no matter what probably.
Does anybody know if there was an official betting site involved in the savior stuff back then?
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Swoopae, I am curious about Pinnacle's registration system. Since bets have the potential to move lines, are accounts required to be tied to a bank account/paypal/credit card? Wouldn't it be easy for Pinnacle to just search for that information from the anomalous bettors? Or are the bets made anonymously? Seems like an odd system if people were allowed to bet without a guarantee of payment. So shouldn't uncovering the bettors be relatively easy?
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Guy on 2+2 says that he saw the same movement on a game where the player who was bet on ended up losing:
"This was 1st match with that weird line movement I have seen. Later I saw same line movements in: Maru vs Life, San vs Dark and 1 other match, but I don't remember which one. Only in Maru vs Life odds movement were wrong and Life won being priced ~3.5 or even 4 in proleague"
Obviously it's not confirmed either since it's also just one guy saying it but it's certainly relevant information if it's true.
edit: confirmation by someone else => "Exactly. These are the matches I remember too. Life was around 3.7 but he eventually won and it turned to be a sick bet, but probably something happened behind it too."
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I can't help but think back to the Effort statement, where he was frustated that his teammates/coach suspected him of matchfixing. To me that indicates that everyone inside the scene is aware of how plausible matchfixing is.
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EPT
