Matchfixing is a very serious offence and accusations of matchfixing should not be made lightly. Please avoid making accusations against specific individuals unless you have substantial proof, or until further information is released. (0620 KST)
I do wonder where the credibility comes from coming from Pinnacle. Just cause some fraud betting team from a company says there is some lead to San throwing the game, who proof that from them? Do we know if this company is capable of analyzing a proper game of starcraft on matchfixing? Where is their credibility on having a good starcraft 2 player on their fraud prevention team to analyze his moves?
People do dumb shit especially when there is pressure on them. I don't think a person can ever get used to that to a certain extend.
Also, from what I read is that Kespa is not very keen on giving out replays. So there is actually no way for Pinnacle to confirm through a replay to justify their accusations.
Some moves were odd but any experienced starcraft player that is capable of analysing the game has to know that there are certain aspects to the game where there just can occur mistaks. Odd mistakes but they can still me innocent mistakes.
damn naive if you think such a huge betting site as Pinnacle would stir this kind of shitstorm just for lulz.
so people doubting the honesty of pinnacle is naive, but the ones doubting of san are not?
You don't get it, Pinnacle is to big to do shit like that. It's top3 betting sites in general. Just in e-sports they've already covered more than 1 million bets. You really think they would risk losing consumer confidence on market that grows so much?
By saying that Pinnacle is trying to avoid paying money is just you showing that you don't know shit about betting and pinnacle. They pay up millions of dollars each day.
Personally, I think that it's a false positive. And concerning the guy "having evidence", we don't know how credible he is. Edit: I think KeSPA should investigate that in any case.
Honestly unless replay shows something strange this is too little to go on. It just leaves us (and San) in the worst possible place - without evidence but with suspicions.
damn naive if you think such a huge betting site as Pinnacle would stir this kind of shitstorm just for lulz.
so people doubting the honesty of pinnacle is naive, but the ones doubting of san are not?
You don't get it, Pinnacle is to big to do shit like that. It's top3 betting sites in general. Just in e-sports they've already covered more than 1 million bets. You really think they would risk losing consumer confidence on market that grows so much?
By saying that Pinnacle is trying to avoid paying money is just you showing that you don't know shit about betting and pinnacle. They pay up millions of dollars each day.
The point is: i am pretty sure they found something they thought is fishy and decided to play it safe by canceling the bets BUT that doesnt mean there really was match fixing. Could be one of those one in a million coicidences where something just went wrong. This doesnt proove San is match fixing.
On January 21 2015 04:39 Clubfan wrote: Personally, I think that it's a false positive. And concerning the guy "having evidence", we don't know how credible he is.
No one is claiming that there is evidence for throw.
There is just evidence that placed bets were uncommon but as far as we know some rich drunk guy maybe decided to open e-sports tab on pinnacle and just go yolo on Dark because he has cool nick.
On January 21 2015 04:41 BlackCompany wrote: The point is: i am pretty sure they found something they thought is fishy and decided to play it safe by canceling the bets BUT that doesnt mean there really was match fixing. Could be one of those one in a million coicidences where something just went wrong. This doesnt proove San is match fixing.
True, just saying to people that Pinnacle would never do this just to avoid paying money. Something triggered their alarm which isn't that easy to do.
I feel like there's a lot of jumping to conclusions right here. If these bets turn out to be underhanded, there's still nothing linking them to KeSPA, San, Dark, T1, or anyone involved in the match. Going from "there were suspicious bets made" to "San got paid to throw, isn't it obvious!" is a really dangerous accusation to make. I don't think it matters how big or important Pinnacle are, there's literally no evidence to support this claim. Unless this Swoop guy has some crazy inside scoop, I don't see this going anywhere.
On January 21 2015 04:23 KiZoGe wrote: For the sake of protecting the Teams/players involved. Until there is further proof from in-game analysis or from the Teams/players and/or KeSPA, I really think this story should be removed from the spotlight. We as a community can not publish news like this based off of a betting sites "fraud detection" and risk major career damages to the players if in fact these accusations are false. Pinnaclesports has no right to determine a KeSPA Starcraft 2 match to be manipulated.
Also for people like Oliver Gill aka @SwoopAE who post tweets like
should have zero credit as a sc2 or esports enthusiast. I'm ashamed of anyone who slanders the players based off what looks to me as 100% false positive of a betting site that shouldn't deal with eSports betting. Fraud detection for eSports and Sports will need to be worked at in completely different ways. This site, does not.
Don't really post much in forums or anything really but this really steams me up the TeamLiquid of all places would put this on the front page based on literally zero proof at the risk of these players careers.
The voiding of the bets is news though. I don't see how it wouldn't be?
I personally think people should be more careful to accuse San and Dark of any sort of fixing though.
I really don't think there is enough to merit a discussion of match fixing with one game being voided because of some in house stats.
Exactly my point. Very well put.
I agree with y'all, but I think posting this type of news with no evidence from players/organisations based of a 3rd party sports betting site is really careless and could have major repercussions on the players if in fact false. I can already see hate on San on twitter and its really worrying me. People don't always read into thing and just see the picture and headline thus taking out their pitchforks. This needs to be removed to help preserve these young players careers if the accusations are false.
You all need to start thinking that match fixing and betting could very well be happening right now in Esports because the betting market for it is in the infant stage so I guarentee just like any traditional sport that started out there were people abusing the betting system and match fixing. Even though there is no proof of it happening its human nature guys, let's not act like it isnt. There are some humans in any kind of sport that will take odds, bet and match fix....even in recreational leagues where 10yr olds are playing.
People don't care. I'm not saying this one was fixed but you better that this isnt the first or the last time you will hear about betting and match fixing, it's going to become more and more common the bigger esports becomes.
Wasn't their 2 broodwar players that served jail time for match fixing a long time ago? If it was happening back then why would you not think it's happening now? IJS
damn naive if you think such a huge betting site as Pinnacle would stir this kind of shitstorm just for lulz.
so people doubting the honesty of pinnacle is naive, but the ones doubting of san are not?
You don't get it, Pinnacle is to big to do shit like that. It's top3 betting sites in general. Just in e-sports they've already covered more than 1 million bets. You really think they would risk losing consumer confidence on market that grows so much?
By saying that Pinnacle is trying to avoid paying money is just you showing that you don't know shit about betting and pinnacle. They pay up millions of dollars each day.
yeah, too big to fall, too big to make that shit. You are the naive if you think that being "too big" makes any organization "untainted" and that never ever will act like that.
I cannot believe there are 10 pages already about this nonsense. There are some obvious alternatives: San did throw the game. Dark is a monster Zerg player who simply put crushed San. San was having a really bad day. The betting site had a failure on their part.
Until there is empirical evidence from the betting site, Kespa, the teams or the players themselves, this is all speculation.
On January 21 2015 04:42 MrVideo wrote: I feel like there's a lot of jumping to conclusions right here. If these bets turn out to be underhanded, there's still nothing linking them to KeSPA, San, Dark, T1, or anyone involved in the match. Going from "there were suspicious bets made" to "San got paid to throw, isn't it obvious!" is a really dangerous accusation to make. I don't think it matters how big or important Pinnacle are, there's literally no evidence to support this claim. Unless this Swoop guy has some crazy inside scoop, I don't see this going anywhere.
I agree.
We shouldn't jump to a conclusion about San or Dark.
All we can see is an extremely odd betting pattern forced pinnacle to close the bets.
If there was more proof, and more information I could begin to entertain the notion.
But aside from playing poorly as San is sometimes prone to do and losing to a favoured opponent nothing screams matchfixing.
This is a dangerous accusation to levy against someone.
On January 21 2015 04:45 KMART561 wrote: You all need to start thinking that match fixing and betting could very well be happening right now in Esports because the betting market for it is in the infant stage so I guarentee just like any traditional sport that started out there were people abusing the betting system and match fixing. Even though there is no proof of it happening its human nature guys, let's not act like it isnt. There are some humans in any kind of sport that will take odds, bet and match fix....even in recreational leagues where 10yr olds are playing.
People don't care. I'm not saying this one was fixed but you better that this isnt the first or the last time you will hear about betting and match fixing, it's going to become more and more common the bigger esports becomes.
Wasn't their 2 broodwar players that served jail time for match fixing a long time ago? If it was happening back then why would you not think it's happening now? IJS
Well, people do care. Look at what this just caused. And this is only an accusation.
It's pretty obvious he completely forgot about it. He was busy chasing an overlord in his main and didn't select his MSC until it was nearly dead before trying to recall it. (It nearly got away too)
EPT
