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On September 02 2014 03:51 ANLProbe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 03:25 Superbanana wrote:Honestly, i think Maru, Taeja, Parting and Rain are too high on the list, while Cure, soO and iNnoVation are too low. *runs away Anyways, its very hard to evaluate "who is the best right now?", despite recent results im pretty sure sOs, herO and Solar still know how to play and that they maybe deserve a place on the list  Its not the same as " who played better this month?", something that is not as hard to answer. Not an an easy task so i call this power rank a good job. The foreign list is prolly my own list, except that i would switch Sen with Bunny herO has been awful since Protoss hasn't been dominating. Innovation hasn't really shown much.
The end of protoss domination is quite recent, i believe that herO is a trully skilled player that might get back on track after a very short period of underwhelming results. And its true iNnovation hasn't shown much, and that alone is enough to take him out of an objective list, but that doesn't necessarily makes the list better Myself, i believe that iNnovation is top 10 in the world and actually highter than its placed on this power rank.
About the other you agree? lol
edit: in other words im making subjective statements about player skills
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Seeing Scarlett ranked below Snute raises my hackles, but she definitely didn't perform as well at the most recent premier tournament. Just ONE SINGLE SECOND earlier to spot that nydus by Life and she would've taken it out before the queens got out to transfuse it, and from there, she was in a pretty threatening position to take the series and move on to stomp MC in the winners' match. Alas, that didn't happen, and so we're left with the power ranking that we have.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 02 2014 03:56 REyeM wrote:
@Zealously
What is you argument for ranking PartinG higher than Dear?
I think Parting has looked better for longer, and he has the added benefit of having played an important role in SKT's playoffs campaign. Their head-to-head where Parting eventually came out on top played a role, but overall I feel that Parting is still more solid. That said, I think Dear's peak ability is higher than Parting's and that he needs a month or two to overtake him. Right now, he's still a bit unstable.
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
On September 02 2014 04:08 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 03:56 REyeM wrote:
@Zealously
What is you argument for ranking PartinG higher than Dear? I think Parting has looked better for longer, and he has the added benefit of having played an important role in SKT's playoffs campaign. Their head-to-head where Parting eventually came out on top played a role, but overall I feel that Parting is still more solid. That said, I think Dear's peak ability is higher than Parting's and that he needs a month or two to overtake him. Right now, he's still a bit unstable.
And what's your argument for not putting MKP on #1
Pretty blasphemous imo
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On September 02 2014 03:54 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 03:47 Hider wrote:On September 02 2014 03:43 Zealously wrote:On September 02 2014 03:40 BakedButters wrote:
Polt should be out and herO should be on the list. At least herO has proven himself able to beat top Koreans who reside in Korea Like Snute? Typically don't care about discussing power-ranks, because it can be super hard to determine who is 3rd vs 5th for instance, however, your just not making any consistent logical arguments in defending Polt. If your going to defend Heros ranking over Polt becasue Hero lost to Stephano 1-2 and 1-2, good luck defending Polt's vs Stephano, Scarlett, Bunny and Major. The argument is that he A) won Red Bull Detroit and looked very good doing so, especially in dismantling Taeja, B) has been playing well consistently for the better part of the summer (this includes MLG, the Red Bull events and most of what I've seen of him online). My argument is that he has played well - with the exception of a number of series among many - and that I would rate him among the top threats in your average tournament. Given the volume of matches Polt plays every month, it's absurd to expect him to maintain the same consistency other players do. Losses will occur for whatever reason if you're participating in 10+ online/offline tournaments every month. That shouldn't detract from the fact that Polt has looked good for the most part of August.
So if losses can occur when you play lots of games, then surprise-results can also occur? Like him beating Taeja 3-0 in the most volatile match-up? Given all his other TvT results (loss vs Bunny, Aco and Major), his result vs Taeja looked like anomaly, not his normal form.
And Tajea is the only top-10 player he won against over the last 2 months.
Further, while losses indeed can occur when you play lots of games, it's still very hard to statistically justify combined losses of 6-3 vs Scarlett, 0-5 vs Major and 4-2 vs Stephano for instance. 2-1 and 3-2 losses vs slightly supbar players can be justified, however such convincing losses cannot be explained through variance, rather you have to assume that he was just tired, but when your using this type of arguemnt specifically for Polt, then you get into lots of bias of where you can use the "tired" approach instead of just relying on a consistent approach. Further, it completely contradicts your previous argument about rewarding consistency.
Moreover, if you believe in inflating results that comes from tournament-wins, why not put Bunny above Polt? He looked convincing in Ginfinity tournament (and also beat Polt in the heads-up a couple of days ago).
But let's look at a larger sample size for Hero, Innovation and Life then, to see whether these guys have any embarrasing losses at a similar sample size. Note that all of them are ranked below Polt so you need to argue that these results are worse than that of Polt...
Below, is shown Heros results and worst seems to be a 0-2 loss vs Gumiho. That's nowhere losing 3-6 to Scarlett or 0-5 vs Major in my opinion.
+ Show Spoiler +2014-08-29 herO KR P 1–2 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR Revival HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 2–0 P KR StarDust HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 1–2 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 2–0 P CA desRow HotS offline
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Online hide
2014-08-18 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Cure HotS online
2014-08-18 herO KR P 2–0 T KR YoDa HotS online
2014-08-18 herO KR P 2–1 T KR Polt HotS online
2014-08-18 herO KR P 0–2 T KR YoDa HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR viOLet HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 T KR Journey HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–1 Z KR Check HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–1 Z NZ Petraeus HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 P CA WhatAmI HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 Z US SLeet HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Cure HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 T KR Bbyong HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 P KR Panic HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 T KR Hack HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR TRUE HotS online
2014-08-14 herO KR P 1–2 T KR YoDa HotS online
2014-08-14 herO KR P 2–0 Z NZ Petraeus HotS online
2014-08-14 herO KR P 2–0 Z US Grief HotS online
IEM Season IX Toronto Qualifiers hide
2014-08-12 herO KR P 0–2 T KR Flash HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 2–1 T KR TY HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 0–2 P KR Pigbaby HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 2–0 P KR Super HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 2–1 T KR TY HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro4 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 0–2 P KR Trust HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro8 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 2–0 T KR sKyHigh HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro16 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR Sacsri HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro32 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 2–1 Z KR Symbol HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #1 hide
2014-07-24 herO KR P 0–2 T KR GuMiho HotS online
2014-07-24 herO KR P 2–0 T KR EJK HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 3 Korea Code A hide
2014-07-24 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Reality HotS offline
2014-07-24 herO KR P 0–2 P KR Super HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Playoffs Ro4 SK Telecom T1 vs. CJ Entus hide
2014-07-22 herO KR P 0–1 P KR Rain HotS offline
2014-07-22 herO KR P 1–0 P KR PartinG HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Playoffs Ro4 SK Telecom T1 vs. CJ Entus Series #2 hide
2014-07-21 herO KR P 0–1 P KR PartinG HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Playoffs Ro4 SK Telecom T1 vs. CJ Entus Series #1 hide
2014-07-20 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR soO HotS offline
2014-07-20 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR soO HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-07-07 herO KR P 0–1 T KR Maru HotS offline
2014-06-29 herO KR P 0–1 Z KR Dark HotS offline
2014-06-23 herO KR P 0–1 Z KR ByuL HotS offline
2014-06-17 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR DongRaeGu HotS offline
2014-06-10 herO KR P 1–0 T KR Maru HotS offline
2014-06-10 herO KR P 1–0 T KR Cure HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Sandisk Invitational hide
2014-06-09 herO KR P 4–2 T KR Flash HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-08 herO KR P 1–0 P KR Hurricane HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Sandisk Invitational hide
2014-06-08 herO KR P 4–3 P KR Zest HotS online
2014-06-06 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR Life HotS online
2014-06-06 herO KR P 2–1 T KR INnoVation HotS online
2014-06-06 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Flash HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-02 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR Action HotS offline
Below are seen Life's results. His worst results are probably two bo3 losses to Scarlett, Gumiho and Kane, though he beat the former a short while after. But Life's results overall can definitely be explained by statistical volatility. You don't see any extremey 4-0/5-0/6-3 losses to players outside the top 20 here.
+ Show Spoiler +2014-08-31 Life KR Z 1–3 P KR Zest HotS offline
2014-08-30 Life KR Z 3–0 P KR First HotS offline
2014-08-29 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR MC HotS offline
2014-08-29 Life KR Z 2–1 Z CA Scarlett HotS offline
2014-08-28 Life KR Z 2–0 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-08-28 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Revival HotS offline
2014-08-28 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR StarDust HotS offline
KeSPA Cup 2014 hide
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Rain HotS online
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR Bbyong HotS online
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Terminator HotS online
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Blast HotS online
IEM Season IX Toronto Qualifiers hide
2014-08-12 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR TY HotS online
2014-08-12 Life KR Z 0–2 P KR Super HotS online
Destiny I hide
2014-08-09 Life KR Z 0–3 T KR INnoVation HotS online
2014-08-06 Life KR Z 1–2 Z CA Kane HotS online
2014-08-06 Life KR Z 2–1 Z US Guitarcheese HotS online
2014-08-06 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR HerO HotS online
Dragon Invitational #4 hide
2014-08-05 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR Center HotS online
Hong Kong e-Sports Tournament #2 Qualifiers South Korea hide
2014-07-28 Life KR Z 1–2 Z KR RagnaroK HotS online
2014-07-28 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR Hack HotS online
BaseTradeTV The Big One hide
2014-07-25 Life KR Z 4–0 Z KR HyuN HotS online
2014-07-25 Life KR Z 3–1 P KR JYP HotS online
2014-07-25 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR SuperNova HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 3 Korea Code A hide
2014-07-24 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR Bunny HotS offline
2014-07-24 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Stats HotS offline
BaseTradeTV The Big One hide
2014-07-23 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR Journey HotS online
2014-07-23 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Jaedong HotS online
IEM Season IX Shenzhen hide
2014-07-18 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR TaeJa HotS offline
2014-07-18 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR MMA HotS offline
2014-07-18 Life KR Z 1–2 P CN Jim HotS offline
2014-07-17 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR Daisy HotS offline
2014-07-16 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR HerO HotS offline
2014-07-16 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Daisy HotS offline
Dragon Invitational #3 hide
2014-07-14 Life KR Z 3–2 Z KR Leenock HotS online
2014-07-14 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR First HotS online
2014-07-13 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR HyuN HotS online
IEM Season IX Shenzhen hide
2014-07-10 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Dear HotS online
2014-07-10 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR Arthur HotS online
2014-07-10 Life KR Z 0–2 Z KR Solar HotS online
Dragon Invitational #3 hide
2014-07-08 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Impact HotS online
SEAcraft Weekly #9 hide
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Pet HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR Hack HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–1 Z PH EnDerr HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–0 Z IN DemiLove HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 1–0 P AU Frustration HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 1–0 P NZ Enak HotS online
TeSL TWOP 2014 Qualifer hide
2014-06-29 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Terminator HotS online
2014-06-29 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Solar HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-29 Life KR Z 1–0 T KR Flash HotS offline
MLG Pro Circuit 2014 Anaheim hide
2014-06-22 Life KR Z 1–2 Z CA Scarlett HotS offline
2014-06-22 Life KR Z 2–1 T MX MajOr HotS offline
2014-06-22 Life KR Z 2–0 T US Illusion HotS offline
2014-06-21 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR Alicia HotS offline
2014-06-21 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Choya HotS offline
2014-06-21 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR Apocalypse HotS offline
2014-06-20 Life KR Z 1–2 Z KR DongRaeGu HotS offline
2014-06-20 Life KR Z 2–1 T SE ThorZaIN HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-16 Life KR Z 0–1 Z KR Solar HotS offline
Dragon Invitational #2 hide
2014-06-12 Life KR Z 1–3 T KR INnoVation HotS online
2014-06-12 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Leenock HotS online
2014-06-11 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Symbol HotS online
2014-06-09 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR Center HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-09 Life KR Z 0–1 Z KR Soulkey HotS offline
2014-06-09 Life KR Z 1–0 P KR Classic HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Sandisk Invitational hide
2014-06-06 Life KR Z 0–2 P KR herO HotS online
2014-06-06 Life KR Z 0–2 T KR Flash HotS online
2014-06-06 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR INnoVation HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 2 Korea Code S hide
2014-06-04 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR ParalyzE HotS offline
2014-06-04 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Rain HotS offline
2014-06-04 Life KR Z 0–2 P KR ParalyzE HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Clan Wars hide
2014-05-17 Life KR Z 1–0 P NL JayPower HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 2 Korea Code S hide
2014-05-09 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Classic HotS offline
2014-05-09 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Rogue HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament hide
2014-05-06 Life KR Z 0–1 T KR Flash HotS offline
2014-05-04 Life KR Z 0–1 T KR Bbyong HotS offline
Dreamhack 2014 Bucharest hide
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 3–0 Z KR Impact HotS offline
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR INnoVation HotS offline
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR StarDust HotS offline
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Leenock HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P FR Lilbow HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR Ryung HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P FR Lilbow HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P NL Harstem HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P RO MoonBeam HotS offline
Below are Innovations results. I guess his mos recent bo3 losses are kinda bad, but he is like 20-0 in bo3's+ vs foreigners.
He lost a couple of 0-1s vs foreigners, however overall I think he is like 80%+ in bo1s vs foreigners (which therefore can be explained due to variance).
+ Show Spoiler +2014-08-25 INnoVation KR T 0–2 P KR Dear HotS online
2014-08-25 INnoVation KR T 0–2 Z KR RagnaroK HotS online
2014-08-24 INnoVation KR T 2–1 P KR eMotion HotS online
KeSPA Cup 2014 hide
2014-08-18 INnoVation KR T 1–2 P KR PartinG HotS online
2014-08-18 INnoVation KR T 2–1 T KR TY HotS online
2014-08-18 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P AU eZra HotS online
Iron Forum Night Invitational yoe Flash Wolves vs. Team Acer hide
2014-08-16 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z KR Leenock HotS offline
2014-08-16 INnoVation KR T 0–1 Z KR Leenock HotS offline
2014-08-16 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P TW Has HotS offline
Destiny I hide
2014-08-10 INnoVation KR T 5–1 P CA HuK HotS online
2014-08-10 INnoVation KR T 4–3 T KR Apocalypse HotS online
2014-08-09 INnoVation KR T 3–0 Z KR Life HotS online
2014-08-07 INnoVation KR T 1–2 P IL Adonminus HotS online
2014-08-07 INnoVation KR T 2–0 Z NZ Petraeus HotS online
2014-08-07 INnoVation KR T 2–0 Z NO Snute HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 3 Korea Code S hide
2014-08-07 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P KR MyuNgSiK HotS offline
2014-08-07 INnoVation KR T 2–1 P KR ParalyzE HotS offline
2014-08-07 INnoVation KR T 1–2 P KR MyuNgSiK HotS offline
Acer TeamStory Cup Season 3 Main Tournament hide
2014-07-27 INnoVation KR T 0–1 P PL MaNa HotS offline
2014-07-27 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-07-27 INnoVation KR T 0–1 Z DE TLO HotS offline
WCS 2014 Season 3 Korea Code A hide
2014-07-23 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P KR Ruin HotS offline
2014-07-23 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P KR Hurricane HotS offline
IEM Season IX Shenzhen hide
2014-07-19 INnoVation KR T 0–3 Z KR Solar HotS offline
2014-07-17 INnoVation KR T 2–1 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-07-17 INnoVation KR T 2–0 Z KR TRUE HotS offline
Acer TeamStory Cup Season 3 Main Tournament hide
2014-07-10 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z SI Starbuck HotS online
2014-07-10 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P NL Sjaak HotS online
2014-07-10 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P ES Majestic HotS online
2014-07-10 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T DE HeRoMaRinE HotS online
2014-07-10 INnoVation KR T 0–1 Z SI Starbuck HotS online
2014-07-10 INnoVation KR T 0–1 Z NO Snute HotS online
IEM Season IX Shenzhen hide
2014-07-10 INnoVation KR T 2–1 Z KR Solar HotS online
2014-07-10 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P KR Dear HotS online
2014-07-10 INnoVation KR T 2–0 T KR Cure HotS online
Acer TeamStory Cup Season 3 Main Tournament hide
2014-07-09 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T KR Ryung HotS online
2014-07-09 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P KR Alicia HotS online
2014-07-09 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z KR Impact HotS online
2014-07-09 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T KR Heart HotS online
2014-07-09 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P KR CranK HotS online
Dragon Invitational #2 hide
2014-06-12 INnoVation KR T 3–1 Z KR Life HotS online
2014-06-12 INnoVation KR T 2–0 T KR MMA HotS online
2014-06-11 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P KR JYP HotS online
2014-06-10 INnoVation KR T 2–1 T KR TaeJa HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 2 Korea Code S hide
2014-06-06 INnoVation KR T 1–2 Z KR Soulkey HotS offline
2014-06-06 INnoVation KR T 2–0 Z KR Shine HotS offline
2014-06-06 INnoVation KR T 0–2 P KR Zest HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Sandisk Invitational hide
2014-06-06 INnoVation KR T 1–2 P KR herO HotS online
2014-06-06 INnoVation KR T 1–2 Z KR Life HotS online
Acer TeamStory Cup Season 3 Main Tournament hide
2014-06-02 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P CN Jim HotS online
2014-06-02 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z CN iAsonu HotS online
2014-06-02 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P CN MacSed HotS online
2014-06-02 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T CN XY HotS online
2014-06-02 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P CN Jim HotS online
2014-05-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T KR jjakji HotS online
2014-05-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T KR jjakji HotS online
2014-05-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z CA Kane HotS online
2014-05-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P KR StarDust HotS online
2014-05-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z FI Serral HotS online
2014-05-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z NO Snute HotS online
2014-05-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P KR HerO HotS online
2014-05-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T KR TaeJa HotS online
2014-05-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z NO Snute HotS online
Dragon Invitational #1 hide
2014-05-26 INnoVation KR T 3–2 Z KR RagnaroK HotS online
2014-05-26 INnoVation KR T 2–0 Z KR HyuN HotS online
2014-05-25 INnoVation KR T 2–0 Z KR Impact HotS online
2014-05-24 INnoVation KR T 2–1 T KR Center HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 2 Korea Code S hide
2014-05-23 INnoVation KR T 2–0 Z KR Leenock HotS offline
2014-05-23 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P KR Squirtle HotS offline
2014-05-23 INnoVation KR T 1–2 P KR herO HotS offline
Acer TeamStory Cup Season 3 Main Tournament hide
2014-05-22 INnoVation KR T 0–1 Z KR Leenock HotS online
2014-05-22 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P KR San HotS online
2014-05-22 INnoVation KR T 0–1 P KR San HotS online
2014-05-22 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P TW Has HotS online
2014-05-22 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z TW Ian HotS online
2014-05-15 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z KR Impact HotS online
2014-05-15 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T KR Ryung HotS online
2014-05-15 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P KR Alicia HotS online
2014-05-15 INnoVation KR T 0–1 T KR Heart HotS online
Showmatch No Dice Gaming Invitational #4 hide
2014-05-03 INnoVation KR T 4–3 Z KR Revival HotS online
2014-05-03 INnoVation KR T 3–1 Z KR Symbol HotS online
2014-05-02 INnoVation KR T 2–0 T KR jjakji HotS online
2014-05-02 INnoVation KR T 1–2 T KR TaeJa HotS online
2014-05-02 INnoVation KR T 2–1 P KR StarDust HotS online
2014-05-01 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P US puCK HotS online
2014-05-01 INnoVation KR T 2–0 Z UA Bly HotS online
Acer TeamStory Cup Season 3 Main Tournament hide
2014-04-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T KR ForGG HotS online
2014-04-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T FR Dayshi HotS online
2014-04-30 INnoVation KR T 1–0 P DK BabyKnight HotS online
Dreamhack 2014 Bucharest hide
2014-04-27 INnoVation KR T 1–2 Z KR Life HotS offline
2014-04-27 INnoVation KR T 2–0 T DK Bunny HotS offline
2014-04-27 INnoVation KR T 2–1 P FI Welmu HotS offline
2014-04-26 INnoVation KR T 2–0 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-04-26 INnoVation KR T 2–1 P CA HuK HotS offline
2014-04-26 INnoVation KR T 2–0 T SE MorroW HotS offline
2014-04-26 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P RO Ancestor HotS offline
Acer TeamStory Cup Season 3 Main Tournament hide
2014-04-15 INnoVation KR T 0–1 Z PL Tefel HotS online
Lone Star Clash 3 hide
2014-04-13 INnoVation KR T 1–2 P KR YongHwa HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 2 Korea Code A hide
2014-04-09 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P KR Sora HotS offline
2014-04-09 INnoVation KR T 2–1 Z KR Dark HotS offline
Acer TeamStory Cup Season 3 Main Tournament hide
2014-04-06 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z KR Jaedong HotS online
2014-04-06 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T UK DeMusliM HotS online
2014-04-06 INnoVation KR T 1–0 T US Xenocider HotS online
2014-04-06 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z US Suppy HotS online
2014-04-06 INnoVation KR T 1–0 Z KR Jaedong HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 2 Korea Qualifier hide
2014-03-26 INnoVation KR T 2–1 T KR Sorry HotS offline
2014-03-26 INnoVation KR T 1–2 Z KR ByuL HotS offline
2014-03-26 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P KR Bulldozer HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Clan Wars hide
2014-02-23 INnoVation KR T 0–1 P KR Dear HotS online
IEM Season VIII Cologne hide
2014-02-16 INnoVation KR T 0–3 P KR HerO HotS offline
2014-02-15 INnoVation KR T 2–0 P KR MC HotS offline
2014-02-15 INnoVation KR T 2–0 T DE HeRoMaRinE HotS offline
Conclusion
You cannot use Polt's higher sample size to justify his very convincing losses to Major and Scarlett. No other players in top 15 (from my knowledge) has similar types of losses to lesser skilled players.
And, you cannot go around cherry-picking which results you really want to matter and ignore other impressive results in similar contexts. Your just ending out maximizing bias here instead of using the most objective consistent approach possible.
The overall "story" makes a lot more sense when you rank Polt as a top 30 player and explain his win vs Taeja to the volatility of TvT
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On September 02 2014 04:07 Pontius Pirate wrote:
Seeing Scarlett ranked below Snute raises my hackles, but she definitely didn't perform as well at the most recent premier tournament. Just ONE SINGLE SECOND earlier to spot that nydus by Life and she would've taken it out before the queens got out to transfuse it, and from there, she was in a pretty threatening position to take the series and move on to stomp MC in the winners' match. Alas, that didn't happen, and so we're left with the power ranking that we have.
On your scenario, the placements on the power rank would probably change a little
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On September 02 2014 04:08 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 03:56 REyeM wrote:
@Zealously
What is you argument for ranking PartinG higher than Dear? I think Parting has looked better for longer, and he has the added benefit of having played an important role in SKT's playoffs campaign. Their head-to-head where Parting eventually came out on top played a role, but overall I feel that Parting is still more solid. That said, I think Dear's peak ability is higher than Parting's and that he needs a month or two to overtake him. Right now, he's still a bit unstable.
Fair enough.
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Austria24422 Posts
On September 02 2014 04:09 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 03:54 Zealously wrote:On September 02 2014 03:47 Hider wrote:On September 02 2014 03:43 Zealously wrote:On September 02 2014 03:40 BakedButters wrote:
Polt should be out and herO should be on the list. At least herO has proven himself able to beat top Koreans who reside in Korea Like Snute? Typically don't care about discussing power-ranks, because it can be super hard to determine who is 3rd vs 5th for instance, however, your just not making any consistent logical arguments in defending Polt. If your going to defend Heros ranking over Polt becasue Hero lost to Stephano 1-2 and 1-2, good luck defending Polt's vs Stephano, Scarlett, Bunny and Major. The argument is that he A) won Red Bull Detroit and looked very good doing so, especially in dismantling Taeja, B) has been playing well consistently for the better part of the summer (this includes MLG, the Red Bull events and most of what I've seen of him online). My argument is that he has played well - with the exception of a number of series among many - and that I would rate him among the top threats in your average tournament. Given the volume of matches Polt plays every month, it's absurd to expect him to maintain the same consistency other players do. Losses will occur for whatever reason if you're participating in 10+ online/offline tournaments every month. That shouldn't detract from the fact that Polt has looked good for the most part of August. + Show Spoiler +So if losses can occur when you play lots of games, then surprise-results can also occur? Like him beating Taeja 3-0 in the most volatile match-up? Given all his other TvT results (loss vs Bunny, Aco and Major), his result vs Taeja looked like anomaly, not his normal form. And Tajea is the only top-10 player he won against over the last 2 months. Further, while losses indeed can occur when you play lots of games, it's still very hard to statistically justify combined losses of 6-3 vs Scarlett, 0-5 vs Major and 4-2 vs Stephano for instance. 2-1 and 3-2 losses vs slightly supbar players can be justified, however such convincing losses cannot be explained through variance, rather you have to assume that he was just tired, but when your using this type of arguemnt specifically for Polt, then you get into lots of bias of where you can use the "tired" approach instead of just relying on a consistent approach. Further, it completely contradicts your previous argument about rewarding consistency. Moreover, if you put extra emphasiz on winning tournaments, why not put Bunny above Polt? He looked convincing in Ginfinity tournament (and also beat Polt in the heads-up a couple of days ago). But let's look at a larger sample size for Hero and Life then, to see whether these guys have any embarrasing losses at a similar sample size. Below, is shown Heros results and worst seems to be a 0-2 loss vs Gumiho. That's nowhere losing 3-6 to Scarlett or 0-5 vs Major in my opinion. + Show Spoiler +2014-08-29 herO KR P 1–2 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR Revival HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 2–0 P KR StarDust HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 1–2 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 2–0 P CA desRow HotS offline
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Online hide
2014-08-18 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Cure HotS online
2014-08-18 herO KR P 2–0 T KR YoDa HotS online
2014-08-18 herO KR P 2–1 T KR Polt HotS online
2014-08-18 herO KR P 0–2 T KR YoDa HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR viOLet HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 T KR Journey HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–1 Z KR Check HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–1 Z NZ Petraeus HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 P CA WhatAmI HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 Z US SLeet HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Cure HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 T KR Bbyong HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 P KR Panic HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 T KR Hack HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR TRUE HotS online
2014-08-14 herO KR P 1–2 T KR YoDa HotS online
2014-08-14 herO KR P 2–0 Z NZ Petraeus HotS online
2014-08-14 herO KR P 2–0 Z US Grief HotS online
IEM Season IX Toronto Qualifiers hide
2014-08-12 herO KR P 0–2 T KR Flash HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 2–1 T KR TY HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 0–2 P KR Pigbaby HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 2–0 P KR Super HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 2–1 T KR TY HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro4 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 0–2 P KR Trust HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro8 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 2–0 T KR sKyHigh HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro16 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR Sacsri HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro32 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 2–1 Z KR Symbol HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #1 hide
2014-07-24 herO KR P 0–2 T KR GuMiho HotS online
2014-07-24 herO KR P 2–0 T KR EJK HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 3 Korea Code A hide
2014-07-24 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Reality HotS offline
2014-07-24 herO KR P 0–2 P KR Super HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Playoffs Ro4 SK Telecom T1 vs. CJ Entus hide
2014-07-22 herO KR P 0–1 P KR Rain HotS offline
2014-07-22 herO KR P 1–0 P KR PartinG HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Playoffs Ro4 SK Telecom T1 vs. CJ Entus Series #2 hide
2014-07-21 herO KR P 0–1 P KR PartinG HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Playoffs Ro4 SK Telecom T1 vs. CJ Entus Series #1 hide
2014-07-20 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR soO HotS offline
2014-07-20 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR soO HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-07-07 herO KR P 0–1 T KR Maru HotS offline
2014-06-29 herO KR P 0–1 Z KR Dark HotS offline
2014-06-23 herO KR P 0–1 Z KR ByuL HotS offline
2014-06-17 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR DongRaeGu HotS offline
2014-06-10 herO KR P 1–0 T KR Maru HotS offline
2014-06-10 herO KR P 1–0 T KR Cure HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Sandisk Invitational hide
2014-06-09 herO KR P 4–2 T KR Flash HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-08 herO KR P 1–0 P KR Hurricane HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Sandisk Invitational hide
2014-06-08 herO KR P 4–3 P KR Zest HotS online
2014-06-06 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR Life HotS online
2014-06-06 herO KR P 2–1 T KR INnoVation HotS online
2014-06-06 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Flash HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-02 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR Action HotS offline
Below are seen Life's results. His worst results are probably two bo3 losses to Scarlett, Gumiho and Kane, though he beat the former a short while after. But Life's results overall can definitely be explained by statistical volatility. You don't see any extremey 4-0/5-0/6-3 losses to players outside the top 20 here. + Show Spoiler +2014-08-31 Life KR Z 1–3 P KR Zest HotS offline
2014-08-30 Life KR Z 3–0 P KR First HotS offline
2014-08-29 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR MC HotS offline
2014-08-29 Life KR Z 2–1 Z CA Scarlett HotS offline
2014-08-28 Life KR Z 2–0 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-08-28 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Revival HotS offline
2014-08-28 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR StarDust HotS offline
KeSPA Cup 2014 hide
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Rain HotS online
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR Bbyong HotS online
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Terminator HotS online
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Blast HotS online
IEM Season IX Toronto Qualifiers hide
2014-08-12 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR TY HotS online
2014-08-12 Life KR Z 0–2 P KR Super HotS online
Destiny I hide
2014-08-09 Life KR Z 0–3 T KR INnoVation HotS online
2014-08-06 Life KR Z 1–2 Z CA Kane HotS online
2014-08-06 Life KR Z 2–1 Z US Guitarcheese HotS online
2014-08-06 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR HerO HotS online
Dragon Invitational #4 hide
2014-08-05 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR Center HotS online
Hong Kong e-Sports Tournament #2 Qualifiers South Korea hide
2014-07-28 Life KR Z 1–2 Z KR RagnaroK HotS online
2014-07-28 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR Hack HotS online
BaseTradeTV The Big One hide
2014-07-25 Life KR Z 4–0 Z KR HyuN HotS online
2014-07-25 Life KR Z 3–1 P KR JYP HotS online
2014-07-25 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR SuperNova HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 3 Korea Code A hide
2014-07-24 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR Bunny HotS offline
2014-07-24 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Stats HotS offline
BaseTradeTV The Big One hide
2014-07-23 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR Journey HotS online
2014-07-23 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Jaedong HotS online
IEM Season IX Shenzhen hide
2014-07-18 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR TaeJa HotS offline
2014-07-18 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR MMA HotS offline
2014-07-18 Life KR Z 1–2 P CN Jim HotS offline
2014-07-17 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR Daisy HotS offline
2014-07-16 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR HerO HotS offline
2014-07-16 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Daisy HotS offline
Dragon Invitational #3 hide
2014-07-14 Life KR Z 3–2 Z KR Leenock HotS online
2014-07-14 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR First HotS online
2014-07-13 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR HyuN HotS online
IEM Season IX Shenzhen hide
2014-07-10 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Dear HotS online
2014-07-10 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR Arthur HotS online
2014-07-10 Life KR Z 0–2 Z KR Solar HotS online
Dragon Invitational #3 hide
2014-07-08 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Impact HotS online
SEAcraft Weekly #9 hide
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Pet HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR Hack HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–1 Z PH EnDerr HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–0 Z IN DemiLove HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 1–0 P AU Frustration HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 1–0 P NZ Enak HotS online
TeSL TWOP 2014 Qualifer hide
2014-06-29 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Terminator HotS online
2014-06-29 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Solar HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-29 Life KR Z 1–0 T KR Flash HotS offline
MLG Pro Circuit 2014 Anaheim hide
2014-06-22 Life KR Z 1–2 Z CA Scarlett HotS offline
2014-06-22 Life KR Z 2–1 T MX MajOr HotS offline
2014-06-22 Life KR Z 2–0 T US Illusion HotS offline
2014-06-21 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR Alicia HotS offline
2014-06-21 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Choya HotS offline
2014-06-21 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR Apocalypse HotS offline
2014-06-20 Life KR Z 1–2 Z KR DongRaeGu HotS offline
2014-06-20 Life KR Z 2–1 T SE ThorZaIN HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-16 Life KR Z 0–1 Z KR Solar HotS offline
Dragon Invitational #2 hide
2014-06-12 Life KR Z 1–3 T KR INnoVation HotS online
2014-06-12 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Leenock HotS online
2014-06-11 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Symbol HotS online
2014-06-09 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR Center HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-09 Life KR Z 0–1 Z KR Soulkey HotS offline
2014-06-09 Life KR Z 1–0 P KR Classic HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Sandisk Invitational hide
2014-06-06 Life KR Z 0–2 P KR herO HotS online
2014-06-06 Life KR Z 0–2 T KR Flash HotS online
2014-06-06 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR INnoVation HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 2 Korea Code S hide
2014-06-04 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR ParalyzE HotS offline
2014-06-04 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Rain HotS offline
2014-06-04 Life KR Z 0–2 P KR ParalyzE HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Clan Wars hide
2014-05-17 Life KR Z 1–0 P NL JayPower HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 2 Korea Code S hide
2014-05-09 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Classic HotS offline
2014-05-09 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Rogue HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament hide
2014-05-06 Life KR Z 0–1 T KR Flash HotS offline
2014-05-04 Life KR Z 0–1 T KR Bbyong HotS offline
Dreamhack 2014 Bucharest hide
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 3–0 Z KR Impact HotS offline
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR INnoVation HotS offline
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR StarDust HotS offline
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Leenock HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P FR Lilbow HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR Ryung HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P FR Lilbow HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P NL Harstem HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P RO MoonBeam HotS offline
You cannot use Polt's higher sample size to justify his very convcing losses to Major and Scarlett. And, you cannot go around cherry-picking which results you really want to matter and ignore other impressive results in similar contexts. Your just ending out maximizing bias here instead of using the most objective consistent approach possible.
I'm almost sure at this point that Zealously is just trying to get his favorite players higher ranks than they deserve. Did you see that Life made 'Close but no Cigar'? What a joke that is.
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On September 02 2014 03:13 Zealously wrote:Hey, I can fire you whenever Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 03:12 cLAN.Anax wrote:
So many big names there.... :-O Flash and Rain, I'm happy about. Will have to look more into Maru; never fully struck me as "legendary," but that could change. That's a surprise, I thought the community was very unified on Maru. Have you not watched a lot of his games, or have you just not been impressed?
Oh no senpai! plz.
I just meant that Life should be higher up 
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 02 2014 04:19 Trasko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 03:13 Zealously wrote:On September 02 2014 03:07 Trasko wrote:
Wrong! Everything is wrong! Hey, I can fire you whenever On September 02 2014 03:12 cLAN.Anax wrote:
So many big names there.... :-O Flash and Rain, I'm happy about. Will have to look more into Maru; never fully struck me as "legendary," but that could change. That's a surprise, I thought the community was very unified on Maru. Have you not watched a lot of his games, or have you just not been impressed? Oh no senpai! plz. I just meant that Life should be higher up
Oh, he's already #1 in next month's rank!
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What is everyones opinion on who is #2 zerg in the world?
I'm gonna go with Liquid`Snute.
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On September 02 2014 04:18 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 04:09 Hider wrote:On September 02 2014 03:54 Zealously wrote:On September 02 2014 03:47 Hider wrote:On September 02 2014 03:43 Zealously wrote:On September 02 2014 03:40 BakedButters wrote:
Polt should be out and herO should be on the list. At least herO has proven himself able to beat top Koreans who reside in Korea Like Snute? Typically don't care about discussing power-ranks, because it can be super hard to determine who is 3rd vs 5th for instance, however, your just not making any consistent logical arguments in defending Polt. If your going to defend Heros ranking over Polt becasue Hero lost to Stephano 1-2 and 1-2, good luck defending Polt's vs Stephano, Scarlett, Bunny and Major. The argument is that he A) won Red Bull Detroit and looked very good doing so, especially in dismantling Taeja, B) has been playing well consistently for the better part of the summer (this includes MLG, the Red Bull events and most of what I've seen of him online). My argument is that he has played well - with the exception of a number of series among many - and that I would rate him among the top threats in your average tournament. Given the volume of matches Polt plays every month, it's absurd to expect him to maintain the same consistency other players do. Losses will occur for whatever reason if you're participating in 10+ online/offline tournaments every month. That shouldn't detract from the fact that Polt has looked good for the most part of August. + Show Spoiler +So if losses can occur when you play lots of games, then surprise-results can also occur? Like him beating Taeja 3-0 in the most volatile match-up? Given all his other TvT results (loss vs Bunny, Aco and Major), his result vs Taeja looked like anomaly, not his normal form. And Tajea is the only top-10 player he won against over the last 2 months. Further, while losses indeed can occur when you play lots of games, it's still very hard to statistically justify combined losses of 6-3 vs Scarlett, 0-5 vs Major and 4-2 vs Stephano for instance. 2-1 and 3-2 losses vs slightly supbar players can be justified, however such convincing losses cannot be explained through variance, rather you have to assume that he was just tired, but when your using this type of arguemnt specifically for Polt, then you get into lots of bias of where you can use the "tired" approach instead of just relying on a consistent approach. Further, it completely contradicts your previous argument about rewarding consistency. Moreover, if you put extra emphasiz on winning tournaments, why not put Bunny above Polt? He looked convincing in Ginfinity tournament (and also beat Polt in the heads-up a couple of days ago). But let's look at a larger sample size for Hero and Life then, to see whether these guys have any embarrasing losses at a similar sample size. Below, is shown Heros results and worst seems to be a 0-2 loss vs Gumiho. That's nowhere losing 3-6 to Scarlett or 0-5 vs Major in my opinion. + Show Spoiler +2014-08-29 herO KR P 1–2 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR Revival HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 2–0 P KR StarDust HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 1–2 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-08-28 herO KR P 2–0 P CA desRow HotS offline
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Online hide
2014-08-18 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Cure HotS online
2014-08-18 herO KR P 2–0 T KR YoDa HotS online
2014-08-18 herO KR P 2–1 T KR Polt HotS online
2014-08-18 herO KR P 0–2 T KR YoDa HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR viOLet HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 T KR Journey HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–1 Z KR Check HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–1 Z NZ Petraeus HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 P CA WhatAmI HotS online
2014-08-17 herO KR P 2–0 Z US SLeet HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Cure HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 T KR Bbyong HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 P KR Panic HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 T KR Hack HotS online
2014-08-15 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR TRUE HotS online
2014-08-14 herO KR P 1–2 T KR YoDa HotS online
2014-08-14 herO KR P 2–0 Z NZ Petraeus HotS online
2014-08-14 herO KR P 2–0 Z US Grief HotS online
IEM Season IX Toronto Qualifiers hide
2014-08-12 herO KR P 0–2 T KR Flash HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 2–1 T KR TY HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 0–2 P KR Pigbaby HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 2–0 P KR Super HotS online
2014-08-12 herO KR P 2–1 T KR TY HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro4 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 0–2 P KR Trust HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro8 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 2–0 T KR sKyHigh HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro16 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR Sacsri HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #3 Ro32 hide
2014-07-31 herO KR P 2–1 Z KR Symbol HotS online
Red Bull Battlegrounds 2014 Global Qualifier #1 hide
2014-07-24 herO KR P 0–2 T KR GuMiho HotS online
2014-07-24 herO KR P 2–0 T KR EJK HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 3 Korea Code A hide
2014-07-24 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Reality HotS offline
2014-07-24 herO KR P 0–2 P KR Super HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Playoffs Ro4 SK Telecom T1 vs. CJ Entus hide
2014-07-22 herO KR P 0–1 P KR Rain HotS offline
2014-07-22 herO KR P 1–0 P KR PartinG HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Playoffs Ro4 SK Telecom T1 vs. CJ Entus Series #2 hide
2014-07-21 herO KR P 0–1 P KR PartinG HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Playoffs Ro4 SK Telecom T1 vs. CJ Entus Series #1 hide
2014-07-20 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR soO HotS offline
2014-07-20 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR soO HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-07-07 herO KR P 0–1 T KR Maru HotS offline
2014-06-29 herO KR P 0–1 Z KR Dark HotS offline
2014-06-23 herO KR P 0–1 Z KR ByuL HotS offline
2014-06-17 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR DongRaeGu HotS offline
2014-06-10 herO KR P 1–0 T KR Maru HotS offline
2014-06-10 herO KR P 1–0 T KR Cure HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Sandisk Invitational hide
2014-06-09 herO KR P 4–2 T KR Flash HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-08 herO KR P 1–0 P KR Hurricane HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Sandisk Invitational hide
2014-06-08 herO KR P 4–3 P KR Zest HotS online
2014-06-06 herO KR P 2–0 Z KR Life HotS online
2014-06-06 herO KR P 2–1 T KR INnoVation HotS online
2014-06-06 herO KR P 1–2 T KR Flash HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-02 herO KR P 1–0 Z KR Action HotS offline
Below are seen Life's results. His worst results are probably two bo3 losses to Scarlett, Gumiho and Kane, though he beat the former a short while after. But Life's results overall can definitely be explained by statistical volatility. You don't see any extremey 4-0/5-0/6-3 losses to players outside the top 20 here. + Show Spoiler +2014-08-31 Life KR Z 1–3 P KR Zest HotS offline
2014-08-30 Life KR Z 3–0 P KR First HotS offline
2014-08-29 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR MC HotS offline
2014-08-29 Life KR Z 2–1 Z CA Scarlett HotS offline
2014-08-28 Life KR Z 2–0 Z NO Snute HotS offline
2014-08-28 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Revival HotS offline
2014-08-28 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR StarDust HotS offline
KeSPA Cup 2014 hide
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Rain HotS online
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR Bbyong HotS online
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Terminator HotS online
2014-08-18 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Blast HotS online
IEM Season IX Toronto Qualifiers hide
2014-08-12 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR TY HotS online
2014-08-12 Life KR Z 0–2 P KR Super HotS online
Destiny I hide
2014-08-09 Life KR Z 0–3 T KR INnoVation HotS online
2014-08-06 Life KR Z 1–2 Z CA Kane HotS online
2014-08-06 Life KR Z 2–1 Z US Guitarcheese HotS online
2014-08-06 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR HerO HotS online
Dragon Invitational #4 hide
2014-08-05 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR Center HotS online
Hong Kong e-Sports Tournament #2 Qualifiers South Korea hide
2014-07-28 Life KR Z 1–2 Z KR RagnaroK HotS online
2014-07-28 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR Hack HotS online
BaseTradeTV The Big One hide
2014-07-25 Life KR Z 4–0 Z KR HyuN HotS online
2014-07-25 Life KR Z 3–1 P KR JYP HotS online
2014-07-25 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR SuperNova HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 3 Korea Code A hide
2014-07-24 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR Bunny HotS offline
2014-07-24 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Stats HotS offline
BaseTradeTV The Big One hide
2014-07-23 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR Journey HotS online
2014-07-23 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Jaedong HotS online
IEM Season IX Shenzhen hide
2014-07-18 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR TaeJa HotS offline
2014-07-18 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR MMA HotS offline
2014-07-18 Life KR Z 1–2 P CN Jim HotS offline
2014-07-17 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR Daisy HotS offline
2014-07-16 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR HerO HotS offline
2014-07-16 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Daisy HotS offline
Dragon Invitational #3 hide
2014-07-14 Life KR Z 3–2 Z KR Leenock HotS online
2014-07-14 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR First HotS online
2014-07-13 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR HyuN HotS online
IEM Season IX Shenzhen hide
2014-07-10 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Dear HotS online
2014-07-10 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR Arthur HotS online
2014-07-10 Life KR Z 0–2 Z KR Solar HotS online
Dragon Invitational #3 hide
2014-07-08 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Impact HotS online
SEAcraft Weekly #9 hide
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Pet HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR Hack HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–1 Z PH EnDerr HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 2–0 Z IN DemiLove HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 1–0 P AU Frustration HotS online
2014-06-30 Life KR Z 1–0 P NZ Enak HotS online
TeSL TWOP 2014 Qualifer hide
2014-06-29 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR Terminator HotS online
2014-06-29 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Solar HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-29 Life KR Z 1–0 T KR Flash HotS offline
MLG Pro Circuit 2014 Anaheim hide
2014-06-22 Life KR Z 1–2 Z CA Scarlett HotS offline
2014-06-22 Life KR Z 2–1 T MX MajOr HotS offline
2014-06-22 Life KR Z 2–0 T US Illusion HotS offline
2014-06-21 Life KR Z 2–0 P KR Alicia HotS offline
2014-06-21 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Choya HotS offline
2014-06-21 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR Apocalypse HotS offline
2014-06-20 Life KR Z 1–2 Z KR DongRaeGu HotS offline
2014-06-20 Life KR Z 2–1 T SE ThorZaIN HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-16 Life KR Z 0–1 Z KR Solar HotS offline
Dragon Invitational #2 hide
2014-06-12 Life KR Z 1–3 T KR INnoVation HotS online
2014-06-12 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Leenock HotS online
2014-06-11 Life KR Z 2–0 Z KR Symbol HotS online
2014-06-09 Life KR Z 2–0 T KR Center HotS online
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament Round 4 hide
2014-06-09 Life KR Z 0–1 Z KR Soulkey HotS offline
2014-06-09 Life KR Z 1–0 P KR Classic HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Sandisk Invitational hide
2014-06-06 Life KR Z 0–2 P KR herO HotS online
2014-06-06 Life KR Z 0–2 T KR Flash HotS online
2014-06-06 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR INnoVation HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 2 Korea Code S hide
2014-06-04 Life KR Z 1–2 P KR ParalyzE HotS offline
2014-06-04 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Rain HotS offline
2014-06-04 Life KR Z 0–2 P KR ParalyzE HotS offline
SHOUTcraft Clan Wars hide
2014-05-17 Life KR Z 1–0 P NL JayPower HotS online
WCS 2014 Season 2 Korea Code S hide
2014-05-09 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR Classic HotS offline
2014-05-09 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Rogue HotS offline
Proleague 2014 Main Tournament hide
2014-05-06 Life KR Z 0–1 T KR Flash HotS offline
2014-05-04 Life KR Z 0–1 T KR Bbyong HotS offline
Dreamhack 2014 Bucharest hide
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 3–0 Z KR Impact HotS offline
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 2–1 T KR INnoVation HotS offline
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 2–1 P KR StarDust HotS offline
2014-04-27 Life KR Z 2–1 Z KR Leenock HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P FR Lilbow HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 1–2 T KR Ryung HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P FR Lilbow HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P NL Harstem HotS offline
2014-04-26 Life KR Z 2–0 P RO MoonBeam HotS offline
You cannot use Polt's higher sample size to justify his very convcing losses to Major and Scarlett. And, you cannot go around cherry-picking which results you really want to matter and ignore other impressive results in similar contexts. Your just ending out maximizing bias here instead of using the most objective consistent approach possible. I'm almost sure at this point that Zealously is just trying to get his favorite players higher ranks than they deserve. Did you see that Life made 'Close but no Cigar'? What a joke that is.
Well I think it can be hard to make powerrankings. I know from experience how easy it is to weight certain results over other similar results when making subjective analyses. My track-record is terrible in predicting who is gonna be good over the next 1-2 months just by looking at gameplay. Thus, that's why I come to the conclusion that you need a more objective approach through looking at pure results in a consistent manner.
In that regard, I think Hero and Life can be justified to be outside top 10, but I just don't think it can be justified to have Polt anywhere near top 10.
Chances are that he looked blindly at the win against Taeja as a "proof" of Polt being one of the best players while not really understanding how volatile TvT - in general - has been over the last couple of months and completely ignoring that Polt actually has had more "bad results" than "extraordinary strong" results.
All of his arguments in favor of the high ranking of Polt can be used the other way around. Like if he wanna explain some of Polt's bad results due to him playing in lots of tournaments, then it's also clear that he must be careful about rewarding him for tournament wins where he just beats one other top 15 player (Taeja) over the entire tournament.
If on the other hand he had beat 4-5 top 20 players over the course of one tournament, I think the ranking could be justified.
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Flash Rain Maru are clearly the top 3 of august - the order is debatable.
After that it gets messy.
Zest, soO, Cure (sick record in august vs amazing opponents) and Teaja could all take it, i would go with Zest or soO though.
Polt clearly doesnt belong to the top 10, although he 3-0d Taeja - but that speaks more of Taejas TvT weakness than of Polts strengh (got 2-0d by Bunny, too - quite inconsistent).
It's rather Innovation, Parting or Life after that in my books - first 2 didnt do much recently you might think, but they are still in Ro16 of code S. Life is still one of the best zergs and recently showed it, too.
Stats and Soulkey might be candidates, too.
This makes
#1-3
 Flash, Maru,  Rain
#4-5
Zest,  soO
#6-7
Taeja, Cure
#8-10
PartinG, INnoVation, Life, ( Stats, Soulkey)
Foreigners: VortiX belongs there, although no games in august. before august, him, scarlett and snute were considered one level - how did people forget?
Sen overrated imo, very inconsistent (see Acer teammatch, lost every single game). no idea how you can put him over Bunny...
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Foreigner list is perfect. Some very questionable picks on the main one though. PartinG being on the list at all is very weird. This would be my top 10:
1. FlaSh
2. Rain
3. Zest
4. Maru
5. Taeja
6. Life
7. Cure
8. soO (overrated)
9. INnoVation
10. Polt (highly debatable)
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On September 02 2014 04:24 REyeM wrote:
What is everyones opinion on who is #2 zerg in the world?
I'm gonna go with Liquid`Snute.
too weak ZvZ for that. have you seen him vs Life?^^
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 02 2014 03:40 BakedButters wrote:
Polt should be out and herO should be on the list. At least herO has proven himself able to beat top Koreans who reside in Korea
Especially Snute. Twice.
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On September 02 2014 04:29 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 03:40 BakedButters wrote:
Polt should be out and herO should be on the list. At least herO has proven himself able to beat top Koreans who reside in Korea Especially Snute. Twice.
Snute is Korean. Just like Naniwa, HuK and Scarlett.
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On September 02 2014 04:28 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 04:24 REyeM wrote:
What is everyones opinion on who is #2 zerg in the world?
I'm gonna go with Liquid`Snute. too weak ZvZ for that. have you seen him vs Life?^^
Didn't catch that.
Also,
#1-3 Flash, Maru, Rain #4-5 Zest, soO #6-7 Taeja, Cure #8-10 PartinG, INnoVation, Life, ( Stats, Soulkey)
probably my favorite list around.
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Why write a power rank when you can just look at the WCS leaderboards?
+ Show Spoiler +
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EPT
