On August 06 2014 23:39 Faust852 wrote: Looks like pros don't really want to go to Russia :}
We're not sending players for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Russias rampant homophobia. Not only is it morally repugnant, but it puts our players at risk. Korean males are culturally very comfortable with being close to each other. Holding hands, sitting on others laps etc, not at all uncommon. In Russia this could be mistaken for gay behavior and may result in misunderstandings that could even lead to violence. There are plenty of incidents where gay or "we thought he was gay" people have been beaten in Russia. Secondly, Russias belligerence in how they're acting with the Ukraine is reason enough to keep our players out on both moral grounds and with concern to their own safety.
TB, I love you and your team but to read this is pretty painful.
First of all this whole "homophobia" thing is completely blew out of scale by the western media that tried to depict Russia as a country dangerous for gay people- it's not as easy as in some place like California but it's far from the worst. Your post unfortunately denotes a huge amount of ignorance on actual facts and about Russia itself, but I know it's not your fault because you're also brainwashed by western media. Russia has a huge amount of Chinese and southern east Asia visitors who - just like Koreans - act the way you described and there's never episodes like the one you describe where there's episodes that could lead to violence, especially on foreigners.
Second, the U.S. itself has some of the most homophobic states (and most racist states too) but you never hear about someone not sending players to a certain state because they're racist and homophobic there. Also, most of the allies of the U.S. (i.e. Saudi Arabia) execute homosexual people and put them in jail. Then Obama goes on TV and says he has no patience for countries that have homophobic remarks like Russia but forgets about their buddies like those middle eastern states from which they get oil from. And then someone like you thinks damn he's right and just pictures Russia as the bad guys forgetting EVERY super-power (US, Russia, China) is equally bad for different reasons. Some western people are so stupid to think to "boycott" Russia for this homophobia reason - which as I said is nothing more than a huge media thing against Russia that started pre-olympics due to tensions that were rising over Snowden and other issues - but you never see some American, UK or EU citizen boycott vacation in Dubai, despite the fact that it's a city built on slavery and where there are some of the strongest anti-gay laws. The view that one country is evil (Russia) and one is good (US, UK or whatever) just shows how much naive you are and the hilarious thing is that you're trying to come out as a good guy for boycotting Russia's event or rather, you have a valid reason not to support Russia- but really, what you're showing is your narrow fielded view. The U.S. does just as many bad things as Russia, and historically speaking have done even more. You probably must not know how things are in China- because you don't boycott there but that country is on far worst human rights ground than Russia and U.S.
Before you think I am biased because I am Russian, I want to tell you two things: One is that I lived most of my life in California, one year in the UK and the least amount itself in Russia and when I come back here I always remember how unfair Russians are treated by the rest of the west, especially lately. You are doing nothing more than a disservice for Russian fans. There's aton of Russian SC2 fans, and I know myself a lot of people who love (or maybe now loved) your team and players but reading this stuff is pretty sad and pathetic sorry. This boycott thing working just shows how good the U.S. media campaign is really, nothing more
i don't mean to be the know of reality but what Russia's doing in the Ukraine isn't right... second of all Russia gets hate for the things they've done and the things they're doing... i'm not saying that the "western media" (btw's although its a fuzzy line... Russia is a western civilization) doesn't blow it out of purportion.... the fact is what has happened to homosexual behaviour... if he's not comfortable putting his players in a Possibly unsafe environment it's his perogative
While it may be dissapointing to us as fans, TB is absolutely 100% right to put the safety of his team above and beyond everything else. It has got to be the priority and say TB didn't prioritise his team's safety and that something did happen, people would attack TB and blame him for sending his players there. TB is just being a responsible team manager.
On August 07 2014 08:53 Crot4le wrote: While it may be dissapointing to us as fans, TB is absolutely 100% right to put the safety of his team above and beyond everything else. It has got to be the priority and say TB didn't prioritise his team's safety and that something did happen, people would attack TB and blame him for sending his players there. TB is just being a responsible team manager.
But "putting safety first" has it's limits. what are the odds that anything happened to them while in Russia? virtually zero.
and all the other times we trusted the community not to crucify us for putting the interests of our players first.
I guess I only have my own naivety to blame. You win, this is the last time, I'll stick to filtered PR statements from now on or silence when it comes to the team, both come with less headaches. A lesson well learned.
On August 07 2014 09:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: Transparency sucks. This thread demonstrates why.
And the TaKe chat logs
and all the other times we trusted the community not to crucify us for putting the interests of our players first.
I guess I only have my own naivety to blame. You win, this is the last time, I'll stick to filtered PR statements from now on or silence when it comes to the team, both come with less headaches. A lesson well learned.
On August 07 2014 09:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: Transparency sucks. This thread demonstrates why.
And the TaKe chat logs
and all the other times we trusted the community not to crucify us for putting the interests of our players first.
I guess I only have my own naivety to blame. You win, this is the last time, I'll stick to filtered PR statements from now on or silence when it comes to the team, both come with less headaches. A lesson well learned.
To be honest, I think the majority in people in this thread support your decision and stance and agree it's the correct thing to do. It's only a few people who have disagreed with it.
On August 07 2014 09:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: Transparency sucks. This thread demonstrates why.
And the TaKe chat logs
and all the other times we trusted the community not to crucify us for putting the interests of our players first.
I guess I only have my own naivety to blame. You win, this is the last time, I'll stick to filtered PR statements from now on or silence when it comes to the team, both come with less headaches. A lesson well learned.
Transparency is the only possible way to discuss and find the truth! Only this way can figure out the arguments and facts. If if u dont want transparency you may be dont have facts and argumants to show your right. So do just the announce thing and thats it...
On August 07 2014 09:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: Transparency sucks. This thread demonstrates why.
And the TaKe chat logs
and all the other times we trusted the community not to crucify us for putting the interests of our players first.
I guess I only have my own naivety to blame. You win, this is the last time, I'll stick to filtered PR statements from now on or silence when it comes to the team, both come with less headaches. A lesson well learned.
Sorry people questioned a decision you made
Hey you know what would have helped stop any of that from happening?
On August 07 2014 09:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: Transparency sucks. This thread demonstrates why.
And the TaKe chat logs
and all the other times we trusted the community not to crucify us for putting the interests of our players first.
I guess I only have my own naivety to blame. You win, this is the last time, I'll stick to filtered PR statements from now on or silence when it comes to the team, both come with less headaches. A lesson well learned.
I don't know what i'll come to TL for if not for the TB drama, please don't quit.
On August 07 2014 09:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: Transparency sucks. This thread demonstrates why.
And the TaKe chat logs
and all the other times we trusted the community not to crucify us for putting the interests of our players first.
I guess I only have my own naivety to blame. You win, this is the last time, I'll stick to filtered PR statements from now on or silence when it comes to the team, both come with less headaches. A lesson well learned.
Sorry people questioned a decision you made
Hey you know what would have helped stop any of that from happening?
Not telling them about it!
If all you want is for no one to question a decision you made, espeically one that is subjective to opinion such as this one, go for it. Dont' tell anyone anything and I guess no one can every reasonably say you're wrong or right.
On August 07 2014 09:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: Transparency sucks. This thread demonstrates why.
And the TaKe chat logs
and all the other times we trusted the community not to crucify us for putting the interests of our players first.
I guess I only have my own naivety to blame. You win, this is the last time, I'll stick to filtered PR statements from now on or silence when it comes to the team, both come with less headaches. A lesson well learned.
Its always a very small part of the community, and probably the toxics and the idiots. I know it must hurt you, but im pretty sure the majority support you and team Axiom. You are the savior of most SlayerS players when they disbanded, its not a small thing for me and fans, you changed lives of your koreans players and ours, everything you did for Starcraft and beyond. Those haters did nothing close of what you achieved yet, and are probably sad persons..
While sometime our opinions may differ, the people who respect you will try to discuss in a civilized manner. The toxics and the idiots will just try to push the ''Totalbiscuit button'' and sadly it work most of the time as you said yourself in that big post.
EDIT: Sorry for everyone, english is not my first language but i think you will get the points.
On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote: Russias rampant homophobia.
I've been living in Russia for 20 years. And I have never seen an example of homophobic behavior. Seems like people from other countries know much more about Russian than Russians themselves.
On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote: Korean males are culturally very comfortable with being close to each other. Holding hands, sitting on others laps etc, not at all uncommon. In Russia this could be mistaken for gay behavior and may result in misunderstandings that could even lead to violence.
Yea, I do remember we've beaten the shit out of those asian boys at wcg showmatches, Kode5 and gamex. Oh wait, we did not. Also nestea and MVP came to Russia a year ago to play some showmatches and they are still alive somehow.
On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote: Secondly, Russias belligerence in how they're acting with the Ukraine is reason enough to keep our players out on both moral grounds and with concern to their own safety.
I doubt you'd find Ukraine on the world map. But you're for sure a geopolitical expert to make such statements.
I am sure there will be enough good players to look, even though you won't send yours. But it's still a bit sad. Those reasons seem ridiculously stupid for anyone who have ever lived in Russia. It's even worse if you believe what you've said, cuz it sounds like repeating propaganda from tv or something like that.
Anyway, I am looking forward to the great tournament. Hope to see mc and hyun in Moscow.
On August 07 2014 09:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: Transparency sucks. This thread demonstrates why.
And the TaKe chat logs
and all the other times we trusted the community not to crucify us for putting the interests of our players first.
I guess I only have my own naivety to blame. You win, this is the last time, I'll stick to filtered PR statements from now on or silence when it comes to the team, both come with less headaches. A lesson well learned.
Its always a very small part of the community, and probably the toxics and the idiots. I know it must hurt you, but im pretty sure the majority support you and team Axiom. You are the savior of most SlayerS players when they disbanded, its not a small thing for me and fans, you changed lives of your koreans players and ours, everything you did for Starcraft and beyond. Those haters did nothing close of what you achieved yet, and are probably sad persons..
While sometime our opinions may differ, the people who respect you will try to discuss in a civilized manner. The toxics and the idiots will just try to push the ''Totalbiscuit button'' and sadly it work most of the time as you said yourself in that big post.
well what a smart style to write about "discussing in civilized maner" while offending all people with different opinion as "idiots and haters" ...several times.
But one thing you right about TB. Its much better just announce the decision and dont describe it and talk about things reasons you have no idea about it.
On August 07 2014 09:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: Transparency sucks. This thread demonstrates why.
And the TaKe chat logs
and all the other times we trusted the community not to crucify us for putting the interests of our players first.
I guess I only have my own naivety to blame. You win, this is the last time, I'll stick to filtered PR statements from now on or silence when it comes to the team, both come with less headaches. A lesson well learned.
Its always a very small part of the community, and probably the toxics and the idiots. I know it must hurt you, but im pretty sure the majority support you and team Axiom. You are the savior of most SlayerS players when they disbanded, its not a small thing for me and fans, you changed lives of your koreans players and ours, everything you did for Starcraft and beyond. Those haters did nothing close of what you achieved yet, and are probably sad persons..
While sometime our opinions may differ, the people who respect you will try to discuss in a civilized manner. The toxics and the idiots will just try to push the ''Totalbiscuit button'' and sadly it work most of the time as you said yourself in that big post.
EDIT: Sorry for everyone, english is not my first language but i think you will get the points.
"They disagree with my decision, therefore they are toxics and idiots". Please open your mind up a bit more.
If you don't like reading people that disagree with your opinion, then just post what you have to say and don't bother reading the responses.
They should cancel this event. Half the world has sanctions set on Russia and they are about to invade Ukraine. It's kinda cold to help an economy that is supporting an invading army and suppressing a people. Dreamhack do the right thing and cancel it and move it some where else. Anywhere else. To the people who are going stay safe be careful.
On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote: Russias rampant homophobia.
I've been living in Russia for 20 years. And I have never seen an example of homophobic behavior. Seems like people from other countries know much more about Russian than Russians themselves.
On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote: Korean males are culturally very comfortable with being close to each other. Holding hands, sitting on others laps etc, not at all uncommon. In Russia this could be mistaken for gay behavior and may result in misunderstandings that could even lead to violence.
Yea, I do remember we've beaten the shit out of those asian boys at wcg showmatches, Kode5 and gamex. Oh wait, we did not. Also nestea and MVP came to Russia a year ago to play some showmatches and they are still alive somehow.
On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote: Secondly, Russias belligerence in how they're acting with the Ukraine is reason enough to keep our players out on both moral grounds and with concern to their own safety.
I doubt you'd find Ukraine on the world map. But you're for sure a geopolitical expert to make such statements.
I am sure there will be enough good players to look, even though you won't send yours. But it's still a bit sad. Those reasons seem ridiculously stupid for anyone who have ever lived in Russia. It's even worse if you believe what you've said, cuz it sounds like repeating propaganda from tv or something like that.
Anyway, I am looking forward to the great tournament. Hope to see mc and hyun in Moscow.
Why so passive agressive? You have a different opinion, thats all. You have good points from my perspective but no need to be an ass. Why dont you tell us more about Russia and gays ? What are the opinions of russians? Is it worst in some part of Russia and better in Moscow? What the russian public think about the new anti-gay laws? etc..
Im not sure here is the right place for this, so mods feel free to edit my post.
EPT
