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On July 20 2014 01:03 darthfoley wrote:
Why doesn't Mr. Bitter co commentate with Rotterdam anymore?
Best guess would have to be money, the only people who i'd say are comfy are those working for GomTV, maybe IEM, and Sean because of his numerous self promoted projects. Then after that only those who get invited to a lot of tournaments with the likes of MLG, DH, RedBull etc. Outside of that it's actually insanely difficult to make a living doing commentary in esports. At least not without something outside of that to make up for the income that it doesn't generate.
People have a tendency to just assume many commentators and gamers are doing quite well when in reality a lot of them are struggling to make ends meet financially. Esports currently is still a lot of work for not a lot of financial gain speaking generally, there is of course some exceptions to that.
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I like the PL casters. And Wolf+Artosis and some of those permutations that aren't Tastosis. Tastosis is fine but too focused on horror movies, 80s games and what pokémon certain players would be..
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On July 20 2014 01:03 darthfoley wrote:
Why doesn't Mr. Bitter co commentate with Rotterdam anymore?
I think he works in the RedBull production team now.
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Tastosis are by far my favourite e-sports casting duo. I am around the same age as both of them so appreciate the references to old school gaming, old animated series and other general nerdy stuff. For me they cut the line between keeping touch with what's happening in the game and general off topic banter. I follow the games they cast fine and rarely feel lost on a strategic level, as long as the camara guy is doing a good job that is what I am most concerned with and at the gsl the camara guy is pretty damn good.
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On July 19 2014 14:39 Terranist wrote:
whiplash and SNM were an amazing combo that nobody has mentioned yet.
that's because they weren't amazing. ;D
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Tasteless and Artosis still top 1 for me. Artosis provides the right level of insight with great humor, and Tasteless is just the coolest guy in Starcraft. Great synergy, great voices. I always have a great time.
There are a lot of good casters though right now, I rarely have anything bad to say about the casters anymore. I just wasn't a big fan of Khaldor's I guess, though I liked what he did for the game.
Edit: Recently I really like the introduction of Moonglade to the casting scene.
Artosis has always been hands down the best caster. So good at casting by himself and so versatile and complementary with any co-caster.
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I think we are fortunate to have really great casters overall. I actually love most casters and at least like others. These are special mentions for guys I like most 
Rotterdam and ToD - I feel they fit perfectly to any person they cast with. Sometimes when two good casters are randomly put together you can't feel the synergy, but Rotterdam and ToD fit so well to actually anyone. They have so friendly attitude, great game knowledge and their play by play is solid as well.
Nathanias - while listening to Nathanias I feel like he never slows down. He is always talking so much about everything, I find Nathanias casts very enjoyable.
Day9 - he is the most complicated of all casters. When Day9 is casting some standard tournament with co-caster I feel like it's just enjoyable cast. Day9 truly shines when environment is less formal and there are no strict rules about behaving. I still remember Redbull's Trial of Xel'naga and I must say there is no person in the world who would do a better job than him. His dailies are funny as well. Overall, I love listening to Day9 whatever he casts, because the guy is just awesome
Khaldor - this one is complicated too. I love Khaldor's solo casts. He and Nathanias are the best at solo casting. However, when most casters benefit from having a co-caster, Khaldor is more an individual type. I also think Khaldor is best at hyping exciting games. Anyone remembers extremly close game of Supernova vs Innovation in GSTL finals? I watched stream live and I'm super happy it was Khaldor who commentated it, not any other caster in the world. I love when casters show so much emotions in crazy games.
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(note: this got seriously long winded so if you actually read the whole thing and/or help out with the creation of the criteria list, double kudos to you)
On July 19 2014 09:48 Darkhorse wrote:
We should remain this the, "Everyone Post Your Opinion on Which Casters are Good/Suck Thread"
Pretty much sums up my sentiments. I'm starting to doubt the existence of objective, unbiased criteria that can be utilized to rank a caster. For instance, anyone who is going to cast absolutely must have "game knowledge" but how on earth can this be measured objectively? I mean, there is pretty much only one attribute that comes to mind and it isn't really a requisite for being a caster: game skill. Sure being good at the game helps and lends credence to your casting but it isn't the end all be all and in fact, some people are bound to be better at playing the game than discussing it with passion
Still, perhaps some kind of interaction between fans and casters that results in an improved experience can be gleaned from this thread. In fact, I'm going to make it my personal mission for the time being. Heres what I'm thinking:
Instead of the usual ranking casters numerically and listing generic reasons for why you like a caster we could give the whole thing some specificity and direction by presenting a series of agreed upon attributes that you rank a caster on from 1 to 10 (or maybe 1 to 5). Those numbers could be compiled and rankings generated periodically from those numbers. It won't be a true "ranking" system in that sense that its objective and unbiased but we can simply acknowledge right off the bat that objective and unbiased ranking for casters just isn't possible and that said ranks simply reflect the ever-changing opinions of the fans.
Additionally, I also think that it might be interesting to include ones personal 1v1 rank in the game. That way, we can see in a general sense how ones own skill level in the game impacts their perception of quality casting. For example, Tasteless or TotalBiscuit are likely to be the favorites for the more casual players and people new to the game whereas people who play at a higher level (Masters) might perceive another caster to be number one in their opinion.
This isn't a good or bad thing and in fact, I believe both Tasteless and TotalBiscuit have explicitly stated that they strive to deliver a professional experience that is easy to digest for those with less experience with the game. Having people include their own 1v1 rank is just another way to add some dimension to the numbers and help casters take a look at their performances and see where they might improve their games the most.
In the end, its all about creating tangible interaction between casters and fans that results in a better experience for everyone involved with the game. Casters should not take the numbers too seriously and remember they simply reflect fan consensus at any given time. Its nothing personal and in fact will be implemented with the intention of helping them gauge their skills and improve them.
Another thing I think we should do is have casters rank other casters using the system. It should be quite interesting to compare the differences in numbers. Heck, casters can even rank themselves and then compare those numbers to the ones being generated by the fans.
So then, what should we rank when looking at casters? The following things come to mind
1) Voice: I think of Tasteless and TotalBiscuit when I think about the best voices in the game right now. I'm pretty sure both of these guys have actually trained to speak "from the belly" or with proper utilization of the diaphragm. An obvious quality to rank for casters
2) Game Knowledge: Another obvious one for obvious reasons. Sure a caster might have proficient knowledge of the game in a general sense, but are they up to date on the current meta and popular builds? Might be worthwhile to have a separate category for "meta knowledge" and "game knowledge" but obviously we want to avoid having too many categories.
3) Humor Not a requisite skill but certainly those who can deliver with impromptu humor are well liked. Again, Tasteless scores pretty well here or at least has in the past
4) Passion Almost a joking reference to how people used to complain about Tasteless "losing his passion" but honestly this is a very dynamic and important quality for a caster to have. When I think passion I think about the Korean casters from Gom. When a caster has TEH PASSIONZ they have an obvious love for the game. Hard to maintain over a 4 hour period but when it is maintained its glorious to behold.
5) Play-By-Play Difficult to execute without stepping all over a partners toes but awesome when executed well and critical to high quality casting that sounds professional.
6) Co-cast Ability Does the caster do well with others? No stepping on toes, cutting off their partner, etc? In contemplating this category I began to wonder about ranking individuals vs ranking established duos. I suppose with the relevant casters they can be ranked both ways. Still, now I'm starting to wonder if anyone will care enough to rank according to these categories in the first place, let alone do it twice!
7) Professionalism Basically a balance between the various categories with the inclusion of some other aspects like quality of dress, fan interaction at events (Day 9 and Tasteless score off the chart in this aspect, seriously they are GREAT to their fans and extremely professional). Also just a general gauge of how they handle themselves on camera, while conducting interviews etc
8) Clairvoyance Ability to accurately predict game outcomes. Difficult to rank in my opinion and is kind of cutesy. I actually think this aspect of ones casting might be better encapsulated in a different category
9) Analysis Pretty self explanatory here. The accuracy of ones analysis in addition to their ability to convey said analysis
10) Overall Self explanatory. Might include this might not as overall score will be determined by numbers associated with the various categories
So basically it would work something like this. A dedicated thread will be created (or perhaps this one suitably reworked) with guidelines for ranking casters included in addition to some basic presentation criteria. I'm thinking about asking for all rankings to be based off a certain minimum number of casts. Essentially, ranking a caster or duo after you've watched them one time is silly and doesn't help. Ranks for established teams and the individuals that comprise them might also be included as separate entries.
Then, in addition to the guidelines and minimum requirements on the first post, the current overall scores for the casters will be listed. Obviously, its possible that a caster only be ranked once or twice and as a result have numbers that are higher than they would be had they received a higher number of votes. Considering this, a certain minimum number of votes will be required to be included in the rankings. By that I mean the list that results from compiling the vote numbers. Profiles for each caster might also be included as hidden tabs that one can reveal as they so desire to check out the latest numbers for a caster.
In the end the power of these ranks will be derived from the effort the community manages to muster in generating the individual "votes" for a particular caster or duo. Basically each post will count as a vote for a certain caster with the individual scores for each category including ones personal best 1v1 ranking and whether or not you consider yourself a caster. When and if the votes reach a sufficient number we can take a look at the numbers and see if lower level players rank casters differently than higher ones, how casters rank each other, etc.
So then...thoughts and feedback on the presentation of the numbers, the categories to include, whether the scores for each category should be 1-10 or 1-5, and anything else relevant would be greatly appreciated. In the end the goal is to foster interaction between fans and content producers in a way that ultimately improves the Starcraft experience for everyone. Also, to create a thread where casters can be analyzed and analyze others with some specificity in a friendly environment while also providing and/or receiving constructive criticism
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Axslav all the way. Didn't see him for quite some time though.
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just count who earned most money with casting and there you have the nr1 caster. problem solved.
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Nathanias is the best caster currently imho.
He has a amazing solo cast, good synergy with every other casters he casts with.
Probably the most skilled full-time caster with Rotti, eventhough ToD is switching more and more into fulltime too.
He is the very good at play by play and hyping up things.
He has the fucking passion man, I don't know if you remember when he casted Buny vs JD, but we had a camera on him for a moment, and this guy had a fucking aura of loving what he does.
His only lacking point he probably humour, I don't say that he hasn't a good sens of humour, but he might be a bit too shy to use it like Incontrol or Tasteless do.
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for me the best casters im seeing are
tasteosis of course, then rotterdam and nathanias. Nathanias i have really come to like over the last few months, the redbull stuff was really good. Apollo is great as well so with these 5 and i suppose you could throw in idrA, i really liked it when he casted and he kept it neutral (rarely) really straight up speak which i like.
what i dont like is the goof incontrol, tod, day9(yes, ill take the hate, its too self aware for me), total biscuit and axeltoss bring to the casting. Kaelaris is on the negative edge as well. i feel uncomfortable for them. Everything has to be at the end of a pun or some trolly/condescending tone. You feel the awkwardness as their partner trys to move things along with awkward laughs. incontrol gets#1 for this, when he starts speaking i usually have my head in my hands. the medicore player/knowledge chimers dont help as they point out the absolute obvious and then after the game begin to theorycraft what they should have done better . . . really gets on my nerves that as most of the time the player they are criticising couldnt have done any better than teh final outcome anyway (dont get me wrong tasteless can be guilty of this but hes a really good caster or is easy for me to listen to and forgive)
just thought id have my say after watching dream hack and wishing inControl wasnt there on the main desk. i like the dude, dont get me wrong but its too much effort to listen to the goof all day and night!
his isn't a good or bad thing and in fact, I believe both Tasteless and TotalBiscuit have explicitly stated that they strive to deliver a professional experience that is easy to digest for those with less experience with the game. this is kind of like saying. You are a horse dont try to pass yourself off as a elephant. Of course they would say they cater for the nubs . . cos they are nubs. gets my goat when they chime in after the game or describe things as poor. Yes it may have been, but i dont feel these people are qualified to say it . . no idea why i think like that, i just do. its like when im at work and the goddamn tea guy offers a suggestion which i didnt ask for and you seriously cant begin to explain on how many levels his solution isnt as simple as that. As for the professional experience . .as i said, all seems like they are far too self aware and trying to insert large words and that slapstick comment like they are talking down or tounge in cheek tones all the time. Fucking irritating
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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United States23455 Posts
On July 20 2014 08:33 iNcontroL wrote:
Lololll
This thread is silly and will bring out a vocal minority. Every caster will have at least one hater who makes himself known here. Best to ignore the whole thing.
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On July 20 2014 08:50 Darkhorse wrote:This thread is silly and will bring out a vocal minority. Every caster will have at least one hater who makes himself known here. Best to ignore the whole thing.
Something tells me iNcontroL isn't gonna lose too much sleep over this one.
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Hey at least some laughs were achieved. I'm gonna go ahead and say Mission Accomplished. Think George Bush in May of 2003
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this is kind of like saying. You are a horse dont try to pass yourself off as a elephant. Of course they would say they cater for the nubs . . cos they are nubs. gets my goat when they chime in after the game or describe things as poor. Yes it may have been, but i dont feel these people are qualified to say it . . no idea why i think like that, i just do. its like when im at work and the goddamn tea guy offers a suggestion which i didnt ask for and you seriously cant begin to explain on how many levels his solution isnt as simple as that. As for the professional experience . .as i said, all seems like they are far too self aware and trying to insert large words and that slapstick comment like they are talking down or tounge in cheek tones all the time. Fucking irritating
Hey that's your opinion you're certainly entitled to it.
I'm personally of the opinion that skill in playing the game and skill in discussing the game with a co-caster are entirely different skill sets. Its like the difference between being a player or being a coach in any kind of sport. Playing the game well and coaching the game well require different sets of skills. Of course there is a certain cross section where these skills intersect but not all great coaches are great players and vice versa.
Frankly, the notion of requiring a caster to play the game at a certain level and/or finding fault with a caster because they arent in a certain league is fucking irritating because it has little to do with their ability to deliver a professional cast. Again, there is some cross section where these skill sets intersect but in the end they simply are not the same.
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On July 20 2014 08:50 Darkhorse wrote:This thread is silly and will bring out a vocal minority. Every caster will have at least one hater who makes himself known here. Best to ignore the whole thing.
I dunno man. I feel like letting a fear of (or perhaps disgust with) haters get in the way of any discussion is kind of like throwing the baby out with the bath water. If the haters actually become pervasive to the point of detracting from the thread in a significant way then perhaps some bans are in order? I guess thats not much of a solution but since it isn't yet a problem in this particular thread, I don't see why it should hinder potential discussion.
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Day9 is probably the most iconic SC2 caster and my favorite. Usually I like everyone and only notice when I DON'T like a caster. One particular caster I do not like, but I he's also the only one casting the games in that league so I can't really complain too much.
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I make it a point not to badmouth casters, and I think the problem with these threads is not the haters (which are easy to spot and ignore), but the completely random ridiculous criteria many think are important to casting. Criteria I've seen honestly argued are crucial to SC2 casting include clothes the casters wear, whether the casters do or do not have any non-American accent, and what rank the casters are on ladder.
I think the best casters around are Artosis, Apollo, Rotterdam, ToD and Khaldor, but I'm fine with most casters. The only casters that really bug me are ones that have no understanding of the game whatsoever and just kind of guess at random things to say, and there's only one prominent caster like that left that's still active.
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EPT
