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On July 20 2014 16:05 Yakikorosu wrote:
I make it a point not to badmouth casters, and I think the problem with these threads is not the haters (which are easy to spot and ignore), but the completely random ridiculous criteria many think are important to casting.
Yes, some of the criteria are absurd.
I've actually seen people claim they weren't able to understand KellyMilkies or Khaldor (FFS!) because of their accents.
Funnily enough, it's always Americans, who themselves speak a bastardised, slurry accent of a beautiful language, who won't shut up about foreigners speaking English.
It's just pathetic to see how ignorant rednecks who can't even form a couple of coherent sentences in any language but their own argue over the accents of people who speak English better than they do.
And then there's the Totalbiscuit haters, who are probably in Gold league themselves and pretend they know the game better than a professional part time caster and team owner...
User was temp banned for this post.
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Number of these threads posted over the last 5 years - 627
Number of these threads that resulted in a constructive discussion - 0
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On July 21 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Number of these threads posted over the last 5 years - 627
Number of these threads that resulted in a constructive discussion - 0
I do like how the two least constructive posts in this thread have both come from casters.
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Kaelaris and Apollo are great, and most casting players (I count Rotterdam among them) are really awesome as well.
Also Naruto is pretty awesome. No disrespect to Madals, but whenever I can chose between Naruto and Madals I go for Naruto.
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On July 21 2014 04:06 HN_KrO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Number of these threads posted over the last 5 years - 627
Number of these threads that resulted in a constructive discussion - 0 I do like how the two least constructive posts in this thread have both come from casters.
We aren't allowed to be constructive in these threads because it will result in people flaming casters for daring to disgree with community members on the subject of casting.
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Unlike playing - casting is a subjective skill. Makes it insanely hard to "rank"
Ranking casters will always be next to impossible - especially high level casters. Some people will hate play-by-play casters because they want analysis. Others will hate analytically casters because they call things too early and ruin hype. Hell, some people will flat out dislike a caster because of their voice or because they are a hobbit!
In another way - look at music. For some, Elvis is the best, others Queen - some think it is Justin Beiber. All will have statistics and different values that they use to justify them being the "best".
Why not just enjoy the casters who you like rather than trying to justify your favorite as being the "best"?
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The fact we had 4 "Protoss Favored" casters at DreamHack is getting on my nerves. Perhaps this is more the organizers fault than the casters. Even if they present seemingly unbiased opinions, I don't think they can speak as intelligently about a race without playing it for sometime (this goes for all races). If you're going to get into professional casting, it should be a requirement to hit at least Masters with Random. This is why I have the most respect for Apollo out of all of them. There is always the exception of Tastosis who live and breathe the game, but when players like QXC confess they only played about 50 games in the new season and (admittedly) can't speak intelligently about the map pool, says a lot.
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On July 21 2014 04:39 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 04:06 HN_KrO wrote:On July 21 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Number of these threads posted over the last 5 years - 627
Number of these threads that resulted in a constructive discussion - 0 I do like how the two least constructive posts in this thread have both come from casters. We aren't allowed to be constructive in these threads because it will result in people flaming casters for daring to disgree with community members on the subject of casting.
Somehow I didn't take you for the kind of guy who worries that some assholes might flame him if he says the wrong thing...
I remember you were very open to feedback, honest, and constructive in RootCatz's power rank thread, so if you really feel that your opinion here couldn't elevate the level of discussion, that's a shame.
I think you and Artosis made a fantastic team at SanDisk. I really appreciated how prepared you were with background information for the matches. More play-by-play casters need to follow suit, because too often legitimate SC2 analysts (Artosis, some others depending on MU) end up doing all the work during a cast.
I wonder if the current go-to method of cycling through 5 different casting duos at each tournament isn't responsible for all casters saying to themselves "I'm not just a play-by-play, I dabble in everything!" When in reality many don't have the skillset to do "everything" on a professional level, and end up just slacking in play-by-play as a result.
On July 21 2014 06:30 SirPinky wrote:
The fact we had 4 "Protoss Favored" casters at DreamHack is getting on my nerves. Perhaps this is more the organizers fault than the casters. Even if they present seemingly unbiased opinions, I don't think they can speak as intelligently about a race without playing it for sometime (this goes for all races). If you're going to get into professional casting, it should be a requirement to hit at least Masters with Random. This is why I have the most respect for Apollo out of all of them. There is always the exception of Tastosis who live and breathe the game, but when players like QXC confess they only played about 50 games in the new season and (admittedly) can't speak intelligently about the map pool, says a lot.
As someone who doesn't care much for Protoss, the absurdly overwhelming Protoss bias in the casting community has been very frustrating. I disagree that Tastosis are immune to it. Listening to them describe all Terrans as basically identical for the fifty millionth time, while every Protoss is a snowflake, makes my blood boil. Maybe if they played Terran at a Masters level, they'd have more appreciation for the (admittedly much) subtler differences in Terran playstyles.
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I miss Sayle's casts.. 
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On July 21 2014 09:39 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 04:39 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 21 2014 04:06 HN_KrO wrote:On July 21 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Number of these threads posted over the last 5 years - 627
Number of these threads that resulted in a constructive discussion - 0 I do like how the two least constructive posts in this thread have both come from casters. We aren't allowed to be constructive in these threads because it will result in people flaming casters for daring to disgree with community members on the subject of casting. Somehow I didn't take you for the kind of guy who worries that some assholes might flame him if he says the wrong thing... I remember you were very open to feedback, honest, and constructive in RootCatz's power rank thread, so if you really feel that your opinion here couldn't elevate the level of discussion, that's a shame. I think you and Artosis made a fantastic team at SanDisk. I really appreciated how prepared you were with background information for the matches. More play-by-play casters need to follow suit, because too often legitimate SC2 analysts (Artosis, some others depending on MU) end up doing all the work during a cast. I wonder if the current go-to method of cycling through 5 different casting duos at each tournament isn't responsible for all casters saying to themselves "I'm not just a play-by-play, I dabble in everything!" When in reality many don't have the skillset to do "everything" on a professional level, and end up just slacking in play-by-play as a result.
What annoys me most about the threads is that you rarely see any actual examples of things casters are doing wrong, rather just vague assertions about "knowledge levels" "bias" and so forth.
What I would like to see from threads like this is "Well I think this about Caster X. To support my opinion, here are some examples of recent casts where the faults I've pointed out have occurred".
You'll get much better responses that way. I get criticized for my knowledge level but the last time I actually recall someone pointing out something I said that was wrong was like 2 years ago. It does make the experience of taking feedback and improving based on it very frustrating, because it's hard to distinguish between trolls and those with legitimate criticisms.
Then of course you have the ever eternal debate of "how to cast", which rages between people that want pure analysis and despise any sort of hype, justified or otherwise and those who prefer the more traditional play-by-play/analyst dichotomy. That'll never end and good luck convincing anyone otherwise. That might very well have got worse lately since the Destiny fake hype thing, which a few too many idiots took literally and thought applied to hyping any fight ever.
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On July 21 2014 10:46 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 09:39 pure.Wasted wrote:On July 21 2014 04:39 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 21 2014 04:06 HN_KrO wrote:On July 21 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Number of these threads posted over the last 5 years - 627
Number of these threads that resulted in a constructive discussion - 0 I do like how the two least constructive posts in this thread have both come from casters. We aren't allowed to be constructive in these threads because it will result in people flaming casters for daring to disgree with community members on the subject of casting. Somehow I didn't take you for the kind of guy who worries that some assholes might flame him if he says the wrong thing... I remember you were very open to feedback, honest, and constructive in RootCatz's power rank thread, so if you really feel that your opinion here couldn't elevate the level of discussion, that's a shame. I think you and Artosis made a fantastic team at SanDisk. I really appreciated how prepared you were with background information for the matches. More play-by-play casters need to follow suit, because too often legitimate SC2 analysts (Artosis, some others depending on MU) end up doing all the work during a cast. I wonder if the current go-to method of cycling through 5 different casting duos at each tournament isn't responsible for all casters saying to themselves "I'm not just a play-by-play, I dabble in everything!" When in reality many don't have the skillset to do "everything" on a professional level, and end up just slacking in play-by-play as a result. What annoys me most about the threads is that you rarely see any actual examples of things casters are doing wrong, rather just vague assertions about "knowledge levels" "bias" and so forth. What I would like to see from threads like this is "Well I think this about Caster X. To support my opinion, here are some examples of recent casts where the faults I've pointed out have occurred". You'll get much better responses that way. I get criticized for my knowledge level but the last time I actually recall someone pointing out something I said that was wrong was like 2 years ago. It does make the experience of taking feedback and improving based on it very frustrating, because it's hard to distinguish between trolls and those with legitimate criticisms. Then of course you have the ever eternal debate of "how to cast", which rages between people that want pure analysis and despise any sort of hype, justified or otherwise and those who prefer the more traditional play-by-play/analyst dichotomy. That'll never end and good luck convincing anyone otherwise. That might very well have got worse lately since the Destiny fake hype thing, which a few too many idiots took literally and thought applied to hyping any fight ever.
I actually think that even if you might have a lack of game knowledge, you utilize it at your advantage, asking interesting question to your co caster.
When you casted with Artosis the Shoutcraft Inv., I already said it, but it was close to perfect. You never make stupid calls like some caster like to do, and when you wanted to "predict" something based on your observation, it alwayss was with prudence and asking to Artosis if it was a possibility, etc. That's what I like with your casting, you do it professionally and you aknowledge that you don't know everything so no stupid calls. And ofc you are the best play-by-play caster of all time, but with your experience, that's totally normal.
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I think it's all different tastes for different casters, I mean I could point to people I like (guys like TB, mOOnGLaDe, Day9) and say why but there's not going to be agreement throughout the community, hell until SHOUTcraft I thought in the VoDs I'd seen Artosis was as boring as batshit, but with TB he fitted perfectly because TB, who as a professional caster understands why you have the expert alongside just called the games and when there was a need to get expert comments to explain things he turned it over to Artosis.
Same with Proleague, Wolf and Brendan, no disrespect to them, but to me and in my opinion they are fucking TERRIBLE at their jobs when they're in a two caster group, but you add mOOnGLaDe to the mix and suddenly it's 100 times better because when they realise that when there's something serious about to happen they shut up and let Moonglade speak, look at the proleague casts before IEM with 'Glade and then look at yesterday. It's like day and night.
But ultimately that's an opinion, which might not be yours or anyone elses. It's like balance threads, you're not going to get universal agreeance. and ultimately it's going to wind up the same way, in one huge argument.
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For me Tasteless and Artossis are no.1, i think bassicly because they are so used to each-other so they you can almost feel how comfortable they are when casting together.
Second place i would probably give to day9 and nathaias.
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On July 19 2014 01:29 NarutO wrote:
TAKE AND NARUTO
:[
You guys are still #1!
:D
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ToD and Rotti are my favorite combo.
I miss Khaldor...
Nathanias is awesome
i really enjoy when day9 and apollo cast together
Also Husky was cool even though his style was different, he always provided great excitement
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I love incontrol's casting, found it so funny when he said a joke at dreamhack and ToD shot him down saying it wasn't funny and he said " well you know not every ones going to be a home run ". Also I dislike rotterdam's casting because as someone stated before his pronunciation is very off putting, its almost as if he never actually finishes his words off and I sometimes struggle to make out what he's actually saying.
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What makes nearly all casters unlistenable is that they cannot resist lapsing into the mode where they literally and unimaginatively call out every step of the action on the screen:
"He's moving in with his stalkers, tries to snipe a building, oh it downs to 5 health, oh but that's a lot of roaches..and he's gotta blink outta there..meanwhile a drop happening in the back.."
That's appropriate for a radio broadcast, but we can all see the same action on the screen as you. It's like these casters are challenging themselves to cram as many words in as possible just fo the sake of it.
Much better to focus more on the high level, strategic aspect:
1. he likes to be aggressive with this build
2. he knows he can pressure here because of his tech advantage
3. his opponent is known to do [this]
4. he's just looking to distract here
5. we saw him put similar pressure before on [map]/[opponent]
etc.
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Take + Naruto, the longer the cast goes the ... umm more fun it gets.
I hate the word connecting though. So the lazy casters that connect everything (banes, armies, reinforcement, probably bases to minerals instead of expanding soon) get alot of points cut. Even if I like them otherwise.
I can understand the reasoning though, sc2 is pretty fast paced and play by play casting is hard. So if you connect everything, you don't even need to think about the right verb.
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Yea I completely disagree with putting apollo last.
My list is:
1- Total Biscuit
2- Apollo
3- Day9
4- Rotterdam
and I forgot Khaldor, probably tied for 1st place for me
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On July 19 2014 01:36 Jer99 wrote:
I'd like to see Nathanias/QXC cast together, they're great at hyping up a fight, wonder what it would sound like with both of them doing it
qxc was awesome when he was casting with Nate! I agree!
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EPT
