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On March 04 2014 00:24 Ygg wrote:
Please let go of the brood war fetichist accusations btw, its not constructive. I quite like how this mod is turning out, and there is a reason we´re all on this thread and not the SC2BW one...
I don't know about you, but I am here because people that wanted to play SC2BW wanted to play it by enforcing BW mechanics (not smartcasting, not MBS, no automine and so on).
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On March 04 2014 00:37 Xiphias wrote:
@ Abduct
I agree that the spell is slightly more interesting than spawn boodling but generally quite boring and illogical in some settings.
Before we had Viper we had Infestors which could use neural parasite while burrowed (yes it was fun but broken). Having neural parasite at a reasonable range (6-8 perhaps) on the Viper might be a good replacement. They are both very similar as they deal with single high-priority targets. The biggest difference, however, which I think makes neural a tad more interesting, is that you can counter it by killing the spallcaster, even after the spell has been casted (hence the range must be not too low).
It would still deal with reavers/ carriers / tanks etc, and it would be a tad better without the rest of the army.
Neural is not the must fun spell ever, but I think it might be a better alternative. Maybe it is possible to tweak it in some way to make it even better?
Infestors that can spawn parasitic invaders like in the Puppet Masters: they take over a unit and (in ominous fashion  ) their eyes turn red, but the player is not alerted of this fact and on the moment that the zerg decides to stage his coup, his opponent will be horrified to find none of his units responding to his commands, turning against him in the midst of battle. (probably lame from a gameplay perspective but it sounds cool ^^ )
Also, if the timer of the changeling runs out, it should become enraged and gain an attack for about five seconds before it explodes, so that it's just like The Thing. A saboteur that when provoked will eventually turn into a horrifying monster and wreck havoc.
(also, part of the reason I'm suggesting things like this is because I want starbow to have cool things that make me want to play. can't be eternally satisfied with pure functionality, sometimes I want to indulge in starship troopers references or horror thematics >.> -- I mean, name one purely awesome addition to starbow that's not a copy of a sc2/bw unit/mechanic)
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On March 04 2014 00:36 Grumbels wrote:
There's room for a monthly official Starbow invitational isn't there? (with more qualified players every month or so) But I guess finding sponsorship money for the prize pool is a bit tricky.
I proposed to them to make a smaller 50$ tournament once per week where only top 8 or top 16 ladder players could participate (or next ones down the ladder if first 8/16 cannot/will not). Of course that means someone will need to produce 50$ per week :D, but it will get more people to ladder more often practicing or trying to get into top 16.
The tournament would need to be standard Bo3 and only some games could be casted but it will increase interest for sure.
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On March 03 2014 23:46 -Archangel- wrote:
I would rather have abduct then Spawn Broodling. There is a reason why queen was not used much in BW. Also Abduct with all its shortcomings still lets you micro more than Spawn B does.
You are aware in Brood War, Queens are what spawned broodling right?
And yes queens were used actually especially at pro level because they had that ability (which could snipe out and 1 shot sieged tanks) also had ensnare which slowed armies movement speeds.
But that's cool, guess they weren't used right?
+ Show Spoiler +
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Russian Federation617 Posts
I dont think weekly ladder based tournaments is that cool, cause ladder top is pretty much stable. If there is a weekly tournament with even 20-30$ prize money, i believe it should be open to everyone.
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On March 04 2014 00:37 Xiphias wrote:
@ Abduct
I agree that the spell is slightly more interesting than spawn boodling but generally quite boring and illogical in some settings.
Before we had Viper we had Infestors which could use neural parasite while burrowed (yes it was fun but broken). Having neural parasite at a reasonable range (6-8 perhaps) on the Viper might be a good replacement. They are both very similar as they deal with single high-priority targets. The biggest difference, however, which I think makes neural a tad more interesting, is that you can counter it by killing the spallcaster, even after the spell has been casted (hence the range must be not too low).
It would still deal with reavers/ carriers / tanks etc, and it would be a tad better without the rest of the army.
Neural is not the must fun spell ever, but I think it might be a better alternative. Maybe it is possible to tweak it in some way to make it even better?
Neural Parasite would definitely be more interesting on the Viper than Abduct. Neural is also a really fun spell for "messing around" if you feel like doing some crazy shenanigans.
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On March 04 2014 01:11 FT.aCt)Sony wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 23:46 -Archangel- wrote:
I would rather have abduct then Spawn Broodling. There is a reason why queen was not used much in BW. Also Abduct with all its shortcomings still lets you micro more than Spawn B does. You are aware in Brood War, Queens are what spawned broodling right?
I am aware. I am also aware Viper is a modified version of BW queen. (it has ensnare like ability, flies and its building is needed to get to Hive tech).
Well, I heard queens were mostly not used for most of BW history.
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On March 04 2014 01:48 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 01:11 FT.aCt)Sony wrote:On March 03 2014 23:46 -Archangel- wrote:
I would rather have abduct then Spawn Broodling. There is a reason why queen was not used much in BW. Also Abduct with all its shortcomings still lets you micro more than Spawn B does. You are aware in Brood War, Queens are what spawned broodling right? I am aware. I am also aware Viper is a modified version of BW queen. (it has ensnare like ability, flies and its building is needed to get to Hive tech). Well, I heard queens were mostly not used for most of BW history.
Might want to watch proleague games then. Queens were very popular for specific eras of the game and throughout.
Vipers have abilities (IE swarm) that is equivalent to Defilers from brood war.
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I hope at some point itll become clear that something is "missing" for Zerg and then we could get a spell for that "missing" thing.
Until then we can fool around but hopefully we can keep in mind that that will be temporary and the Devs should focus on other things (Baneling/Reaver dmg bugs).
Or how about something easy? Take the Devourer Abillity (that unit is rarely built anyways ;o) and give it to the Viper, maybe increase range or remove channeling.
That abillity looks so cool, want to see it more :D
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On March 04 2014 00:39 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 00:24 Ygg wrote:
Please let go of the brood war fetichist accusations btw, its not constructive. I quite like how this mod is turning out, and there is a reason we´re all on this thread and not the SC2BW one...
I don't know about you, but I am here because people that wanted to play SC2BW wanted to play it by enforcing BW mechanics (not smartcasting, not MBS, no automine and so on).
Nah. Not rly for me.
I dont play sc2bw cuz the pathing is just terrible
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except frenzy is boooooooooooring
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On March 04 2014 02:32 Daumen wrote:
I hope at some point itll become clear that something is "missing" for Zerg and then we could get a spell for that "missing" thing.
Until then we can fool around but hopefully we can keep in mind that that will be temporary and the Devs should focus on other things (Baneling/Reaver dmg bugs).
Or how about something easy? Take the Devourer Abillity (that unit is rarely built anyways ;o) and give it to the Viper, maybe increase range or remove channeling.
That abillity looks so cool, want to see it more :D
Devourers are used in air to air fights. It stacks and does more damage per stack, so when fighting against BC's/Carriers it comes in handy. Don't need an additional spell because you're trying to do to much with one specific unit and not enough with others.
If Vipers are only going to have abduct then the unit itself isn't going to be used when that spell could be given to another unit or could be modified.
Reason Brood War was successful was because it took alot more skill than SC2 and it was active.
Starbow is active, and its on its way to being very balanced. Every bit of feedback is welcome and warranted and shouldn't be shunned.
But you need to look at everything from SC1 to today in order to make a determination and justification as to why you want this done or why this should be done, etc....
You don't have Colossus in the game so abduct would specifically only be used against Tanks and BC's/Carriers. Don't see a real purpose in ZvZ unless it would be against lurkers but can abduct pull burrowed units in the mod?
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On March 04 2014 01:58 FT.aCt)Sony wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 01:48 -Archangel- wrote:On March 04 2014 01:11 FT.aCt)Sony wrote:On March 03 2014 23:46 -Archangel- wrote:
I would rather have abduct then Spawn Broodling. There is a reason why queen was not used much in BW. Also Abduct with all its shortcomings still lets you micro more than Spawn B does. You are aware in Brood War, Queens are what spawned broodling right? I am aware. I am also aware Viper is a modified version of BW queen. (it has ensnare like ability, flies and its building is needed to get to Hive tech). Well, I heard queens were mostly not used for most of BW history. Might want to watch proleague games then. Queens were very popular for specific eras of the game and throughout. Vipers have abilities (IE swarm) that is equivalent to Defilers from brood war.
have you actually played starbow? the starbow viper is actually a queen replacement (with ensnare and abduct instead of spawn broodling), it doesnt have blinding cloud. instead, the defiler is back
also, Daumen is not talking about acid spores but an actual channeling ability that the devourer has in starbow
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On March 04 2014 03:16 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 01:58 FT.aCt)Sony wrote:On March 04 2014 01:48 -Archangel- wrote:On March 04 2014 01:11 FT.aCt)Sony wrote:On March 03 2014 23:46 -Archangel- wrote:
I would rather have abduct then Spawn Broodling. There is a reason why queen was not used much in BW. Also Abduct with all its shortcomings still lets you micro more than Spawn B does. You are aware in Brood War, Queens are what spawned broodling right? I am aware. I am also aware Viper is a modified version of BW queen. (it has ensnare like ability, flies and its building is needed to get to Hive tech). Well, I heard queens were mostly not used for most of BW history. Might want to watch proleague games then. Queens were very popular for specific eras of the game and throughout. Vipers have abilities (IE swarm) that is equivalent to Defilers from brood war. have you actually played starbow? the starbow viper is actually a queen replacement (with ensnare and abduct instead of spawn broodling), it doesnt have blinding cloud. instead, the defiler is back also, Daumen is not talking about acid spores but an actual channeling ability that the devourer has in starbow
I have been playing Starbow with 3k-3.5k, just never made Vipers since they're not a much needed unit at the present time nor saw any reason to make them.
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Ensnare was a cool spell you add.
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Quick fix idea:
Switch Devourer and Viper spells.
- Viper does the Blight spell (maybe re-design it a bit so its more effective at area control vs ground units)
- Corruptor gets Abduct that has a 5-6 range and can only be used on Air units (which makes a bit more sense that you could pull something in the air closer to you ?)
Just throwing ideas out there
EDIT: oh god Ensnare + Blight combo would be cool
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EPT
