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Starbow - Page 329

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CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-21 00:42:26
March 21 2015 00:41 GMT
#6561
After watching those tourneys and show matches, mutas are still a joke. Why do you keep them so strong? Think about how much gas you can get without needing two geysers. The muta build is just laughably overpowered TvZ.



Dirtybag is not a bad player. This is just busted.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
March 26 2015 19:09 GMT
#6562
Arthur is a former team SlayerS Starcraft 2 player who has won every single Starbow tournament he has participated in for the last 3 months. Here's the streak:

  • Monday Night Starbow #15
  • Monday Night Starbow #17
  • Monday Night Starbow #21 (he did not play in #19)
  • [Monday Night Starbow #23](http://challonge.com/MNS23)
  • EuroBow#4
  • EuroBow#5


EuroBow#6 is tomorrow night. Can he keep it going? It's room to sign up to try to beat him.

Watch it at: http://www.twitch.tv/sc2_starbow
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Espers
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom606 Posts
March 26 2015 19:12 GMT
#6563
why isnt it on the TL calendar?
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-26 21:20:19
March 26 2015 21:20 GMT
#6564
[image loading]

General
  • Unit sizes and splash effects increased by about 15% + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    After last patch unit decrease a lot of splash effects and AOE spells got the strength they deserved, but it felt like we were fighting against the SC2 engine and not playing to its strength. The editor only allow for certain unit sizes which is especially noticeable when units become very small. These small units would clump up a lot more and have a very hard time blocking properly at ramps and chokes. The change from last patch was not in vain, as many units were not just too big, but had wrong sizes relative to each other. Therefore, this is not a reversal of the change from lat patch, but a simple +% increase of all units sizes and AOE effects while respecting the unit size relation changed from last patch. This does feel better from testing, and units are overall still a bit smaller than they were in SC2.

  • Build time of units and buildings are now rounded up to whole seconds.
  • Build time of upgrades are rounded to be divisible by 5.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    This has nothing to do with balance, but just aesthetics. IF we want to keep wiki up to date and make sure numbers can be somewhat remembered for timings etc in the game, then having a building finish after 37.7 seconds is just a nightmare.

  • Build time of many structures changed to match BW values. This especially affected Robotics facility, robotics bay, templar archives and lair.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Many build time of buildings were off compared to BW. These all had some good reasoning behind them, but it was mostly connected with reactor for terran and strong nurture swarm on zerg. So many changes have happened after this odd build times were introduced so we feel safe to revert this back to BW value. One change is different. Robotics facility is 10 seconds shorter than in BW and robotics support bay is 10 seconds longer. This encourages drop play with warp prisms while not buffing early reaver drops.

  • Many updates on tooltips. Thanks to ZzZ for lot's of help. He also helped set a lot of the build times right.
  • Unit pathing is now more aggressive.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Units are still generally smaller than what we had some patches ago and they also clump up more than is desirable. Hence this change.



Terran
  • Optical Flare on medics now cost 25 energy. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    A heavily underused and not too strong spell that took away too much heal energy.

  • Wraith now deals 1x20 explosive damage (changed from 2x7.5 normal damage). + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    We wanted wraiths to be an alternative to dealing with carriers and battlecruisers. They were just simply not doing enough damage vs these units becasue of the thick armor. This should help a little.

  • Merc movement speed increased to 2.65 (up from 2.41).
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    With no damage on impact, we tested making these units a tad less sluggish. Feels a lot better, but we have not done enough testing to really set Merc values right, so these changes are up for discussion after more testing. Seems fine for now though.

  • Damage upgrades for Ghosts and Mercs now work properly.
  • Merc Grapple impact damage removed, and replaced with a slow while grapple. Merc hp reduced to 110, but it has an upgrade at the tech lab which adds 30 hp.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Some very early porxy Merc builds were proven a tad strong. We wanted the Merc to help bio play deal with protoss and to some extent terran, but the intent was not to give a new, crazy cheese vs protoss. This helps giving the Merc decent values at reasonable times in the game.

  • New dropship model icons. Thanks to Ghostnova!
  • Battlecruiser movement speed reduced to 1.5. Warp drive energy cost increased to 100. Max energy decreased to 150. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    The battlecruiser seemed to be headed into a direction where any other counter than battlecruisers seemed less than optimal. With 75 energy warp and 200 energy max you blink away from ghost seeker drones, wraith shots and basically anything you tried to trow at them. This energy cost let's the BC player chose more carefully when to warp drive and when to use yamato. The movement speed also, let you defend too many bases too easily with one group of battlecruisers. For a unit to be possible to counter and interesting, it needs a clear weakness, and the old Battlecruisere just seemed to have everything. This Battlecruisere is still better than the BW counterpart in the fact that it has warp drive which is very useful.

  • Stimpack now gives marines +100% attack speed (up from +70%)
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    We did not even know it was 70% until recently. We've always just assumed 100%.

  • Reaper G-4 charges detonation time decreased from 2.5 sec to 2 sec.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Reapers are now moved to this late-game mobile tech switch option. A group of reapers late-game is expensive and carry some risk in making to make them pay for themselves. Microing away from the charges felt too easy and the charges felt like a not too good investment. Hopefully this helps. This has not been tested to the extent we'd like as very few players make reapers. Give it a try!

  • Firebats, Mercs and Medics now require tech lab OR fusion core.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Tech lab's are cool and all, but we base the game around BW balance, and a bio player in BW did not need a ton of add on's late-game. Hopefully this will bring in the best from both games. And also, firebat in Starbow is very strong now, so it belongs with a tech-lab.

  • Vultures now place spider mines under themselves. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    You were able to place spider mines directly under enemy units, which is very hard to micro vs compared to how they worked in BW. And the only reason this was the case in SB was because it is how the vulture was made from the SC2 campaign.

  • Vulture Spider mine delay slightly reduced. It was not over killing too well.
  • Vulture pathing removed. It was bugging them out too much because of long deceleration which was needed for moving shot. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    They are still a bit tricky to micro compared to other units because of the moving shot thingy. This might make them a tad too strong though, but we were just so tired of seeing groups of vultures endlessly moving round and around when they were suppose to stand still. Let us know if they are too strong now or not.

  • Ghost seeker drone speed increased. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    A sloth beat it once in a fun-run.



Protoss
  • New (modified) dragoon model. Thanks to GhostNova and xiaorobear.
  • Sentinel attack adjusted to do higher damage but has slower attack speed.
  • Null wards no longer kill each other on impact. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Sentinels were under-preforming quite a bit, and the null-wards were never suppose to kill each other by intent of their design. This makes them much stronger, but on the other hand, terran can make wraiths now to deal with them.

  • Sentinel Glare now allows the sentinel to move very slowly while in use, but the detection range is reduced and the unit can only detect 120 deg arc in front of it.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    How cool is that?

  • Observer Phase Shield duration decreased to 10 seconds.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    This ability has just proven better and better, especially on very high level games. 10 seconds is still a decent time to scout out a whole lot of stuff. 27 seconds was just ridiculous.

  • Carrier interceptor speed reduced.
  • Interceptor build time increased to match BW values.+ Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    A carrier with BW behavior in the SC2 engine preforms a whole lot better as the interceptors move around much more smoothly and seems much harder to pick off. Also, BW interceptors took 14,2 sec to build AND you needed an upgrade to have 8 AND they started with 0 interceptors. The interceptor BT in Starbow was 10. Now it is 15.

  • Added Dark Archon, Reaver and Carrier as units the High Templar can hallucinate.


Zerg
  • Queens move slower off of creep again. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Some crazy builds vs forge fast expanding protoss involving queens laying tumors on creep residuals from canceled hatcheries + spine crawlers seemed hard to stop and was fairly far away from any intentions on our part.

  • "Spawn Broodling" on Viper replaced with "Spawn Locusts". Does 100 damage on impact and spawn two locusts. The locust has higher hp and more damage than a broodling but attacks slower. Cost 125 energy. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Spawn broodling, while reliable, was not the most interesting spell. This one feels like a happy middle ground. You get 100 damage for sure, which is reliable, but you also get some extra which can kill a lot more, or almost nothing depending on the situation which adds some more skill to the spell as the locusts can be individually microed.

  • Infested terran spell on the Viper removed.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    The spell above tired to combine spawn broodling with infested terran. This should also make the infest part of contaminate not too powerful anymore.

  • Nurture swarm duration decreased to 16 sec. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Lair BT decreased as well, so we don't want super-early mutas etc.

  • Adrenal glands now give zerglings +33% attack speed. They were only giving lings +12,4% which was a bug.
  • Guardian range set to 10. (down from 11) + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Everything in moderation.

  • Queens now have a very low range ground attack with low damage that deals splash damage. It costs no energy, but must be activated and has a cooldown.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Yes, this is only good vs zerglings and 1 hp zealots. But it adds some much needed stability to early-game zvz.

  • Dark Swarm duration increased to 30 sec.
    + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    "It was like this in BW"

  • New unit: "Scorcher" added. Cost 125/75, 2 supply, morphed from larva. Can only shoot air. 20 normal splash damage with 2 attack speed. It's attack works like a scarab in the way that if you have fast air units moving away from the shot, it will do less damage. Movement speed 2.5. Requires Viper's Nest. Can be upgraded on Viper's Nest to learn abduct which works the same way as it does on the Viper in SC2. Can also attack while burrowed.
  • Hydra bonus damage to biological air removed. Spore crawler bonus damage to biological air removed. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    This unit is still open for change, but we wanted to add one version of it to live SB so we can see it more in play and get more feedback. We are becoming more and more pleased with its attack, but we are very unsure about giving it abduct. Have fun abusing this unit so we can change it more later The Hydra/spore anti-bio removal should be obvious when we add this unit.



Many bugs on upgrades for units not working or giving wrong values and hotkeys have also been fixed.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
March 26 2015 21:41 GMT
#6565
On March 27 2015 04:12 Espers wrote:
why isnt it on the TL calendar?


Crap, forgot about that. We'll add it tonight, thanks for the reminder
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
March 26 2015 21:58 GMT
#6566
Iam glad queen moves slow off creep again.
Franscar did some weird rushes involving 10~ pool into fast queen and than walk straight to terran natural, lay down creep tumor.

In tvz that is. I came up with a build that perhaps deals with it well and maybe even comes ahead(but i dont know 100% yet) but still, it felt like it limited the build order for terran.

Just saying.
JCoto
Profile Joined October 2014
Spain574 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-05 21:43:15
April 05 2015 21:25 GMT
#6567
Keep your work going mates!

I think that your greatest achievement is breaking some bad design mantras that Blizzard have pulled off no matter what amd they keep using in LotV, like new econ changes, extreme hardcountering, unconsistent micro and weird macro design (see protoss).
I love how you've solved that and more of this things.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-26 21:12:18
April 26 2015 20:58 GMT
#6568
Patch 0.560

General
  • Game speed reduced by about 7% (compared to the 0% patch a while back, we have gone from 12,5% to 5%. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    http://starbowmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=582&pid=11825#pid11825

  • AI is now improved. Select one fo the harder difficulties with "economic focus" for optimal results. It's still a lot of work left, but it is at least now making Starbow units and more than one base. Thanks to DecOfCaffee, decemberscalm, Ahli and the crew of the LotV Alpha mod for the help.
  • All research time for general weapons and armor upgrades for all races are now slightly faster. There seemed to be a discrepancy between the BW numbers we had and the actual BW numbers.
  • Lot's and lot's of bugs fixed.


Terran
  • Engineering bay's can now lift up and fly. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    TO THE MOON!



Protoss
  • Arbiters now have +50 more shield. It can cloak air units. It no longer gives extra shield armor to ground units under its cloak. It can recall any number of units, but the area to select units is smaller. Stasis preparation cast time heavily reduced. Recall now cost 150 energy. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Yes, this is a big "back to BW", but the current Starbow Arbiter promoted deathball play quite a lot while the most non-deathball play, the recall, was heavily nerfed compared to BW. This is hopefully a step in the right direction for a more "all over the place" protoss late-game.

  • "Safeguard" no longer cost energy, but are on a cooldown.
  • Energized pylons can now heal units by right-clicking on them. Trying to simplify an overly complicated ability.
  • High templar storm now has a short preparation time with a big cast animation to help the zerg and terran scrubs to get out!
  • Warp-gate now has to be researched from the templar archives. It used to require templar archives but was researched from the cyber-core. By the time you have templar archives, you don't use the cyber core for much (usually) so this makes you have to chose between warp-gates and storm research in the mid-game.
  • Psionic storm research time increased to match the BW time.


Zerg
  • Eruptor can now only attack while burrowed. It moves faster and has a range upgrade and no longer has abduct. It starts with burrow like a Lurker. It has a new ability "Erupt". Erupt pushes all units away from the center of target ground and deals 10 damage to enemy units. They also have 125 live and are armored with +1 armor. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Eruptor is still not the "what an awesome unit!" that we would have liked, but it is slowly shaping into "something decent". Future changes for this unit will probably occur as we see more and more of it.

  • Baneling HP increased to 30. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    They are still under-preforming it seems so they will probably get more changes in the future. The fact that they have to connect + firebats being very good counters will probably open up for testing with plasma damage or maybe even normal damage in the future.

  • Baneling nest build time increased by 10 sec. They were coming a bit too fast in ZvZ.
  • Overlord transport upgrade (yes, it has some other name) now costs 150/150 and takes a bit less time to research. It is no longer possible to upgrade overlords from hatcheries after lair tech is complete. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Zerg could tech to lair AND tech to drop/speed and there was no way for the opponent to know. On the other hand, the other races have their transport units buffed in various ways. This was a way of buffing the zerg transport in a more controlled environment.

  • Ensnare now decrease movement speed of 50% and reduce attack speed by 30% + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    The main design of this spell is the "catch fast units". Vultures, mutalisk, corsairs etc. If zerg wants to soften up armies, he can use plague.

  • Muta double life regeneration removed. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

    Mutalisk harass already feels quite strong in ZvT.



The future. We are aware that lurkers seems to under-preform vs bio compared to BW. We will do some more tests here and there will probably be some change. The main issue is to give it some sort of change which does not affect ZvP too much. The baneling, like stated earlier, might also get some changes in the future.

Except for that. Nothing big seems to be way off.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
varsovie
Profile Joined December 2013
Canada326 Posts
April 26 2015 22:14 GMT
#6569
On April 27 2015 05:58 Xiphias wrote:
Patch 0.560

General
[list]
[*] Game speed reduced by about 7% (compared to the 0% patch a while back, we have gone from 12,5% to 5%. + Show Spoiler [explanation] +

http://starbowmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=582&pid=11825#pid11825


I can already sense half a year of patches before all the numbers get the correct value. :D
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
April 27 2015 21:10 GMT
#6570
Monday Night Starbow #29 is live on the new patch. Come watch

http://www.twitch.tv/sc2_starbow
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
neteX
Profile Joined April 2015
Sweden285 Posts
April 28 2015 00:19 GMT
#6571
Starbow is so much fun i just wish this would be a "thing" instead of anything else SC related.
http://www.twitter.com/neteXLoL flw pls
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
April 28 2015 00:36 GMT
#6572
I like the AI. I went on a bender playing it over the weekend.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
April 28 2015 19:36 GMT
#6573
Hey I was wondering if there was another chat system that people use to find games besides the Bnet group?
404AlphaSquad
Profile Joined October 2011
839 Posts
April 28 2015 19:44 GMT
#6574
On April 29 2015 04:36 knyttym wrote:
Hey I was wondering if there was another chat system that people use to find games besides the Bnet group?

Most people use the chat "channel" not the group.

http://eros.starbowmod.com/ ==> The official ladder client, you can also ask for games there if you have an account on the official website: starbowmod.com
aka Kalevi
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-28 20:33:22
April 28 2015 20:32 GMT
#6575
There has been some interest in Starbow economy latley as I have been getting several PM's about the matter.

Since last patch some triggers was broken due to how we implemented the AI triggers. All has been fixed now and all the Starbow mining triggers are now working as they should.

This was mostly to inform anyone who wanted to copy our mining triggers and data to run eco tests.

Thanks to Ahli for fixing them
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
HewTheTitan
Profile Joined February 2015
Canada331 Posts
May 04 2015 22:50 GMT
#6576
On April 29 2015 05:32 Xiphias wrote:
There has been some interest in Starbow economy latley as I have been getting several PM's about the matter.

Since last patch some triggers was broken due to how we implemented the AI triggers. All has been fixed now and all the Starbow mining triggers are now working as they should.

This was mostly to inform anyone who wanted to copy our mining triggers and data to run eco tests.

Thanks to Ahli for fixing them


How does DH compare to the Starbow economy?
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
May 05 2015 14:49 GMT
#6577
On May 05 2015 07:50 HewTheTitan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 05:32 Xiphias wrote:
There has been some interest in Starbow economy latley as I have been getting several PM's about the matter.

Since last patch some triggers was broken due to how we implemented the AI triggers. All has been fixed now and all the Starbow mining triggers are now working as they should.

This was mostly to inform anyone who wanted to copy our mining triggers and data to run eco tests.

Thanks to Ahli for fixing them


How does DH compare to the Starbow economy?


Here is a complete analysis:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/483640-economy-data-collection-thread-hots-dh10-dh8#15
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
May 15 2015 17:55 GMT
#6578
Patch 0.570

General
  • General upgrades for units weapons, armor and shields have been increased with about 12 seconds per level to match BW stats.


Terran
  • Marine size reduced.
  • Firebat cone made slightly more narrow.
  • Restoration added to the medic. Researched on the tech-lab. Cost 50 energy to use. Same as in BW.
  • Spider mine movement speed increased. Dragoon damage point adjusted accordingly.


Protoss
  • Safeguard now starts with 20 sec cooldown. Usage cooldown increased from 50 sec to 80 sec (the ability itself lasts for 60 sec, and the cooldown starts to count down right after you activate it).
  • Stasis research time reduced to match BW values.


Zerg
  • Baneling removed. Baneling is the bunker BT of Starbow confirmed.
  • Plague on Defiler modified to BW values. That is shorter duration, but 300 damage (up from 200). Buff vs mech and protoss, nerf vs bio.
  • Queen size increased. This is to better block ramps and give a stronger defenders advantage in ZvZ.
  • Creep tumor now cost 30 energy.


There have been discussion about most of these changes with ample explanation in the balance and design thread. I am also very busy these days, so sorry for little explanations.

We still know that lurkers may be under-preforming vs marines in the mid/late-game. The marine size will make it better, but we don't know how much better yet. If it's not enough, other changes may be added later.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
May 21 2015 18:57 GMT
#6579
We are close to getting out of Beta. There will be a $250 tournament in connection with that.

More info here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/485968-starbow-version-10-release-tournament
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
May 21 2015 20:22 GMT
#6580
On May 22 2015 03:57 Xiphias wrote:
We are close to getting out of Beta. There will be a $250 tournament in connection with that.

More info here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/485968-starbow-version-10-release-tournament

I really hope that there will be tournaments for this in the future, so that all your hard work in this gets validated with a community and competitive scene in some capacity. Not expecting a StarBOW GSL, obviously.
kiss kiss fall in love
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