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On January 04 2014 03:42 vidium wrote:
I wonder, do koreans have a TL like site where they whine about balance everyday or is it just us non-koreans that whine all day about patches and race imbalance?
On topic: "if something is imbalanced in the game we just increase the speed" Blizz balancing 101. Enjoy Speedcraft 2.
Clearly you don't watch many streams or listen to commentary during matches very well. The Koreans are just as vocal about SC2 balance as we are.
TvP has been complained about a TON over the last few weeks since the Oracle buff which makes a lot of sense when you consider how much more Korean Protoss players can do with an easier to micro Oracle than Western players can.
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On January 04 2014 03:43 playa wrote:
Such a rigged poll, when the change doesn't effect p vs z, but what zerg wouldn't take 20 secs less of PO, and, to a lesser extent, p vs t is the same way. But, half of the toss population, if not more, is trying to play like maxblack, and this nerf is a huge buff to them...
I don't know how a game can be taken seriously, when such brainless strategies are so overpowering. A strategy game? One without much depth, apparently. Becoming GM has become a choice. Not a matter of skill. It's sad.
Dude, we were seeing macro games PvP at the end of WoL already, don't be such dramatic about it, 20s isn't that much of a nerf, you'll just to be a bit more cautious about casting the overcharge but 40s is still huge. At worst it's like 1 cycle of production less, which isn't catastrophic if he decided to allin you anyway.
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Who was the korean terran who tweeted "protoss is a fraud" or something to that effect?
Trust me, Korean terrans loathe PvT as much as foreigners, they are just good enough to actually win. That doesn't mean they are happy with the state of the match up.
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Blizz...
-Make it so the MSC has 175 max energy OR overcharge requires 125 energy. This will remove the ability of Toss to just throw the overcharge on both nexuses. Voila, Terran can be remotely aggressive early in TvP, and PvP is untouched.
-Give the tanks an upgrade for EMP shells. The problem with TvP mech is that Immortals/Archons absolutely WRECK an infinite amount of tanks. I'm all for units that counter another unit, but the Immortal literally nullifies Tanks. Rather than buffing tanks vs. armored units [Marauders, Roaches, and Stalkers(Immortals ignore this due to their hardened shield)], it will target the main problem (TvP mech) without touching a fantastic balance in TvT (mech v bio/tank or bio) and TvZ.
Tanks kinda blow in TvZ right now too tbh
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On January 04 2014 03:42 vidium wrote:
I wonder, do koreans have a TL like site where they whine about balance everyday or is it just us non-koreans that whine all day about patches and race imbalance?
On topic: "if something is imbalanced in the game we just increase the speed" Blizz balancing 101. Enjoy Speedcraft 2.
Remember Bomber having a huge "Protoss OP, Nerf Oracle" behind him when he streamed ? Taeja saying in an interview "Blizzard please don't nerf terran anymore". That's how koreans see the game as well.
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uh, late to the party. I think burrow speed is fine now, but nothing against tweaking it further. It's a sideoption anyways.
Photon overcharge to 40 sounds like a good change, would still love to see a range-1 on it, if just for the sake that the siege weapon siege tank has a greater range than the static defense PO.
Proposed Tank change:
- Tank damage from 35(+15vs armored) to 50(+20vs armored)
- Splash damage percentages changed:
100% damage area around the main target changed to 70% damage (=from 35+15vs armored to 35+14vs armored)
50% area changed to 35% (=from 17.5+7.5vs armored to 17.5+7vs armored)
25% area changed to 17.5% (=from 8.75+3.75vs armored to 8.75+3.5vs armored)
- Upgrade bonus changed from 3(+2vs armored) to 5(+2vs armored)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lvsrgoR.jpg)
Reasoning:
Sieged Tank dps is very low currently: 12.5 + 5.4 vs armored.
When the opponents are clumped and can be sniped with few tankshots this is OK, because the burst does a lot of work.
But if you fight spread/big, high HP targets (Archon, Ultralisk, Colossus charging zealots, Hellbats) the tank damage isn't enough to outright kill them and since the damage over time (dps) is so low, tanks tend to underperform against such units.
This damage/dps buff greatly helps tanks in its role to combat most other ground units.
Meanwhile, the tanks splash stays the same, keeping it similarily strong against unit compositions such as MMM, roach/hydra, ling/bling.
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On January 04 2014 03:46 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 03:43 playa wrote:
Such a rigged poll, when the change doesn't effect p vs z, but what zerg wouldn't take 20 secs less of PO, and, to a lesser extent, p vs t is the same way. But, half of the toss population, if not more, is trying to play like maxblack, and this nerf is a huge buff to them...
I don't know how a game can be taken seriously, when such brainless strategies are so overpowering. A strategy game? One without much depth, apparently. Becoming GM has become a choice. Not a matter of skill. It's sad. Dude, we were seeing macro games PvP at the end of WoL already, don't be such dramatic about it, 20s isn't that much of a nerf, you'll just to be a bit more cautious about casting the overcharge but 40s is still huge. At worst it's like 1 cycle of production less, which isn't catastrophic if he decided to allin you anyway.
Don't act like you know anything about p vs p, when you obviously don't.
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That stupid protoss OP whine coming from wooden league retards just pissing me off. Don't even want to comment that nonsense. Terran dominating everything for 2 years was ok. But suddenly after 8 months of HoTs with no certain reason Protoss became op as shit. No balance changes (don't tell me about oracles), no anything, but protoss became OP. Yes, that totally makes sense.
But what's more stupid is that proposed PO change. For 8 months PO was ok, but now it certainly should be nerfed. OMG. It looks more like Blizzard is just desperate to show everyone they read that noob feedback and actually take measures. Cause that change makes 0 sense and won't solve Terran problems at all.
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On January 04 2014 03:50 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 03:46 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:43 playa wrote:
Such a rigged poll, when the change doesn't effect p vs z, but what zerg wouldn't take 20 secs less of PO, and, to a lesser extent, p vs t is the same way. But, half of the toss population, if not more, is trying to play like maxblack, and this nerf is a huge buff to them...
I don't know how a game can be taken seriously, when such brainless strategies are so overpowering. A strategy game? One without much depth, apparently. Becoming GM has become a choice. Not a matter of skill. It's sad. Dude, we were seeing macro games PvP at the end of WoL already, don't be such dramatic about it, 20s isn't that much of a nerf, you'll just to be a bit more cautious about casting the overcharge but 40s is still huge. At worst it's like 1 cycle of production less, which isn't catastrophic if he decided to allin you anyway. Don't act like you know anything about p vs p, when you obviously don't.
Don't act like you know anything about the game, when you obviously don't.
See, easy to act like an ass. Eveything you have ever said since months about balance was flawed as fuck, still i'm not talking like an ass. I watch enough pro-games and play enough the game to know how PvP works, thank you for nothing.
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On January 04 2014 03:54 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 03:50 playa wrote:On January 04 2014 03:46 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:43 playa wrote:
Such a rigged poll, when the change doesn't effect p vs z, but what zerg wouldn't take 20 secs less of PO, and, to a lesser extent, p vs t is the same way. But, half of the toss population, if not more, is trying to play like maxblack, and this nerf is a huge buff to them...
I don't know how a game can be taken seriously, when such brainless strategies are so overpowering. A strategy game? One without much depth, apparently. Becoming GM has become a choice. Not a matter of skill. It's sad. Dude, we were seeing macro games PvP at the end of WoL already, don't be such dramatic about it, 20s isn't that much of a nerf, you'll just to be a bit more cautious about casting the overcharge but 40s is still huge. At worst it's like 1 cycle of production less, which isn't catastrophic if he decided to allin you anyway. Don't act like you know anything about p vs p, when you obviously don't. Don't act like you know anything about the game, when you obviously don't. See, easy to act like an ass. Eveything you have ever said since months about balance was flawed as fuck, still i'm not talking like an ass. I watch enough pro-games and play enough the game to know how PvP works, thank you for nothing.
Really, are you playing against pro gamers in p vs p or even playing any, period? O you saw a pro playing once. Good for you, champ.
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On January 04 2014 03:56 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:50 playa wrote:On January 04 2014 03:46 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:43 playa wrote:
Such a rigged poll, when the change doesn't effect p vs z, but what zerg wouldn't take 20 secs less of PO, and, to a lesser extent, p vs t is the same way. But, half of the toss population, if not more, is trying to play like maxblack, and this nerf is a huge buff to them...
I don't know how a game can be taken seriously, when such brainless strategies are so overpowering. A strategy game? One without much depth, apparently. Becoming GM has become a choice. Not a matter of skill. It's sad. Dude, we were seeing macro games PvP at the end of WoL already, don't be such dramatic about it, 20s isn't that much of a nerf, you'll just to be a bit more cautious about casting the overcharge but 40s is still huge. At worst it's like 1 cycle of production less, which isn't catastrophic if he decided to allin you anyway. Don't act like you know anything about p vs p, when you obviously don't. Don't act like you know anything about the game, when you obviously don't. See, easy to act like an ass. Eveything you have ever said since months about balance was flawed as fuck, still i'm not talking like an ass. I watch enough pro-games and play enough the game to know how PvP works, thank you for nothing. Really, are you playing against pro gamers in p vs p or even playing any, period? O you saw a pro playing once. Good for you, champ.
You are so full of yourself.
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On January 04 2014 03:56 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:50 playa wrote:On January 04 2014 03:46 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:43 playa wrote:
Such a rigged poll, when the change doesn't effect p vs z, but what zerg wouldn't take 20 secs less of PO, and, to a lesser extent, p vs t is the same way. But, half of the toss population, if not more, is trying to play like maxblack, and this nerf is a huge buff to them...
I don't know how a game can be taken seriously, when such brainless strategies are so overpowering. A strategy game? One without much depth, apparently. Becoming GM has become a choice. Not a matter of skill. It's sad. Dude, we were seeing macro games PvP at the end of WoL already, don't be such dramatic about it, 20s isn't that much of a nerf, you'll just to be a bit more cautious about casting the overcharge but 40s is still huge. At worst it's like 1 cycle of production less, which isn't catastrophic if he decided to allin you anyway. Don't act like you know anything about p vs p, when you obviously don't. Don't act like you know anything about the game, when you obviously don't. See, easy to act like an ass. Eveything you have ever said since months about balance was flawed as fuck, still i'm not talking like an ass. I watch enough pro-games and play enough the game to know how PvP works, thank you for nothing. Really, are you playing against pro gamers in p vs p or even playing any, period? O you saw a pro playing once. Good for you, champ.
Why are you talking like this?
If you want to prove your point, take your time and explain it. NonY and hushang did that to me when I said that I didn't think it mattered much a few hours ago, and now I'm convinced. Do you ever expect him to believe you're right when you talk to him like that? If you don't want to prove your point, then just go away. You're not helping anything.
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On January 04 2014 03:58 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 03:56 playa wrote:On January 04 2014 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:50 playa wrote:On January 04 2014 03:46 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:43 playa wrote:
Such a rigged poll, when the change doesn't effect p vs z, but what zerg wouldn't take 20 secs less of PO, and, to a lesser extent, p vs t is the same way. But, half of the toss population, if not more, is trying to play like maxblack, and this nerf is a huge buff to them...
I don't know how a game can be taken seriously, when such brainless strategies are so overpowering. A strategy game? One without much depth, apparently. Becoming GM has become a choice. Not a matter of skill. It's sad. Dude, we were seeing macro games PvP at the end of WoL already, don't be such dramatic about it, 20s isn't that much of a nerf, you'll just to be a bit more cautious about casting the overcharge but 40s is still huge. At worst it's like 1 cycle of production less, which isn't catastrophic if he decided to allin you anyway. Don't act like you know anything about p vs p, when you obviously don't. Don't act like you know anything about the game, when you obviously don't. See, easy to act like an ass. Eveything you have ever said since months about balance was flawed as fuck, still i'm not talking like an ass. I watch enough pro-games and play enough the game to know how PvP works, thank you for nothing. Really, are you playing against pro gamers in p vs p or even playing any, period? O you saw a pro playing once. Good for you, champ. Why are you talking like this? If you want to prove your point, take your time and explain it. NonY and hushang did that to me when I said that I didn't think it mattered much a few hours ago, and now I'm convinced. Do you ever expect him to believe you're right when you talk to him like that? If you don't want to prove your point, then just go away. You're not helping anything.
If players like Nony can say the same thing, yet players like whoever faust is can come in and spout "it's no big deal guys. I've watched a pro game before," he's lucky anyone acknowledges his existence, let alone takes the time to explain it to him.
I've watched some t vs t games before, next on my agenda is to talk about t vs t changes... who does that?
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Ok folks, pvp was different in WOL because Protoss had no early flying units to provide high ground vision. That's not true in hots. We can all be pretty sure that the 20 second nerf will make PVP a hot mess for a while. But we will figure it out, as it always does.
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On January 04 2014 04:00 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 03:58 Nebuchad wrote:On January 04 2014 03:56 playa wrote:On January 04 2014 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:50 playa wrote:On January 04 2014 03:46 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:43 playa wrote:
Such a rigged poll, when the change doesn't effect p vs z, but what zerg wouldn't take 20 secs less of PO, and, to a lesser extent, p vs t is the same way. But, half of the toss population, if not more, is trying to play like maxblack, and this nerf is a huge buff to them...
I don't know how a game can be taken seriously, when such brainless strategies are so overpowering. A strategy game? One without much depth, apparently. Becoming GM has become a choice. Not a matter of skill. It's sad. Dude, we were seeing macro games PvP at the end of WoL already, don't be such dramatic about it, 20s isn't that much of a nerf, you'll just to be a bit more cautious about casting the overcharge but 40s is still huge. At worst it's like 1 cycle of production less, which isn't catastrophic if he decided to allin you anyway. Don't act like you know anything about p vs p, when you obviously don't. Don't act like you know anything about the game, when you obviously don't. See, easy to act like an ass. Eveything you have ever said since months about balance was flawed as fuck, still i'm not talking like an ass. I watch enough pro-games and play enough the game to know how PvP works, thank you for nothing. Really, are you playing against pro gamers in p vs p or even playing any, period? O you saw a pro playing once. Good for you, champ. Why are you talking like this? If you want to prove your point, take your time and explain it. NonY and hushang did that to me when I said that I didn't think it mattered much a few hours ago, and now I'm convinced. Do you ever expect him to believe you're right when you talk to him like that? If you don't want to prove your point, then just go away. You're not helping anything. If players like Nony can say the same thing, yet players like whoever faust is can come in and spout "it's no big deal guys. I've watch a pro game before," he's lucky anyone acknowledges his existence, let alone takes the time to explain it to him. I've watched some t vs t games before, next on my agenda is to talk about t vs t changes... who does that?
I am top50 master EU terran (of all master in europe, not of my league). and I played protoss at a midmaster level last season, playing like a cheap monkey doing retarded build so I had quite the time to see whether 20s of overcharge would change something or not against allin. But meh, since you are obviously the most skilled protoss player in this thread, I have to aknowlege your superiority.
Edit : I also watch all pro league games and every majors tournaments these last 3 years or so, so yeah, I know the game quite a bit.
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On January 04 2014 04:00 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 03:58 Nebuchad wrote:On January 04 2014 03:56 playa wrote:On January 04 2014 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:50 playa wrote:On January 04 2014 03:46 Faust852 wrote:On January 04 2014 03:43 playa wrote:
Such a rigged poll, when the change doesn't effect p vs z, but what zerg wouldn't take 20 secs less of PO, and, to a lesser extent, p vs t is the same way. But, half of the toss population, if not more, is trying to play like maxblack, and this nerf is a huge buff to them...
I don't know how a game can be taken seriously, when such brainless strategies are so overpowering. A strategy game? One without much depth, apparently. Becoming GM has become a choice. Not a matter of skill. It's sad. Dude, we were seeing macro games PvP at the end of WoL already, don't be such dramatic about it, 20s isn't that much of a nerf, you'll just to be a bit more cautious about casting the overcharge but 40s is still huge. At worst it's like 1 cycle of production less, which isn't catastrophic if he decided to allin you anyway. Don't act like you know anything about p vs p, when you obviously don't. Don't act like you know anything about the game, when you obviously don't. See, easy to act like an ass. Eveything you have ever said since months about balance was flawed as fuck, still i'm not talking like an ass. I watch enough pro-games and play enough the game to know how PvP works, thank you for nothing. Really, are you playing against pro gamers in p vs p or even playing any, period? O you saw a pro playing once. Good for you, champ. Why are you talking like this? If you want to prove your point, take your time and explain it. NonY and hushang did that to me when I said that I didn't think it mattered much a few hours ago, and now I'm convinced. Do you ever expect him to believe you're right when you talk to him like that? If you don't want to prove your point, then just go away. You're not helping anything. If players like Nony can say the same thing, yet players like whoever faust is can come in and spout "it's no big deal guys. I've watched a pro game before," he's lucky anyone acknowledges his existence, let alone takes the time to explain it to him. I've watched some t vs t games before, next on my agenda is to talk about t vs t changes... who does that?
You will find that it takes a lot more time to insult and belittle people than it takes to actually explain things to them in a civil way. If you have time for the former, you have time for the latter.
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On January 04 2014 03:52 insitelol wrote:
That stupid protoss OP whine coming from wooden league retards just pissing me off. Don't even want to comment that nonsense. Terran dominating everything for 2 years was ok. But suddenly after 8 months of HoTs with no certain reason Protoss became op as shit. No balance changes (don't tell me about oracles), no anything, but protoss became OP. Yes, that totally makes sense.
But what's more stupid is that proposed PO change. For 8 months PO was ok, but now it certainly should be nerfed. OMG. It looks more like Blizzard is just desperate to show everyone they read that noob feedback and actually take measures. Cause that change makes 0 sense and won't solve Terran problems at all.
U mad bro? LOL
On January 04 2014 03:50 Big J wrote:Proposed Tank change: - Tank damage from 35(+15vs armored) to 50(+20vs armored)
- Splash damage percentages changed:
100% damage area around the main target changed to 70% damage (=from 35+15vs armored to 35+14vs armored)
50% area changed to 35% (=from 17.5+7.5vs armored to 17.5+7vs armored)
25% area changed to 17.5% (=from 8.75+3.75vs armored to 8.75+3.5vs armored)
- Upgrade bonus changed from 3(+2vs armored) to 5(+2vs armored)
Reasoning: Sieged Tank dps is very low currently: 12.5 + 5.4 vs armored. When the opponents are clumped and can be sniped with few tankshots this is OK, because the burst does a lot of work. But if you fight spread/big, high HP targets (Archon, Ultralisk, Colossus charging zealots, Hellbats) the tank damage isn't enough to outright kill them and since the damage over time (dps) is so low, tanks tend to underperform against such units. This damage/dps buff greatly helps tanks in its role to combat most other ground units. Meanwhile, the tanks splash stays the same, keeping it similarily strong against unit compositions such as MMM, roach/hydra, ling/bling.
I like it. Maybe make a thread on bnet forums.
TBH though, i don't think any of the suggestions matter. Blizzard almost never takes feedback like this. They will most likely remove the energy UP from the Ghost and buff both mech and bio in the process. Mostly bio.
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I would personally start with putting every spell on the MSC at 125 energy. Each of those spells are potentially game changing, so you shouldn't be able to carelessy cast 2 of them in a row. Like, wtf, blanketting the battlefield with huge timewarp zones which render units slower than thors doesn't sound very appealing. Neither does making your 2 bases impenetrable with two huge-ass cannons.
Well, I'm sure it appeals to 50% of GM players, and that's probably enough for Blizzard, half the players isn't so bad.
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I think Timewarp should also affect the protoss units, so it's might be a double edge sword and they will be more cautious about using it.
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On January 04 2014 04:09 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 03:52 insitelol wrote:
That stupid protoss OP whine coming from wooden league retards just pissing me off. Don't even want to comment that nonsense. Terran dominating everything for 2 years was ok. But suddenly after 8 months of HoTs with no certain reason Protoss became op as shit. No balance changes (don't tell me about oracles), no anything, but protoss became OP. Yes, that totally makes sense.
But what's more stupid is that proposed PO change. For 8 months PO was ok, but now it certainly should be nerfed. OMG. It looks more like Blizzard is just desperate to show everyone they read that noob feedback and actually take measures. Cause that change makes 0 sense and won't solve Terran problems at all. U mad bro? LOL Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 03:50 Big J wrote:Proposed Tank change: - Tank damage from 35(+15vs armored) to 50(+20vs armored)
- Splash damage percentages changed:
100% damage area around the main target changed to 70% damage (=from 35+15vs armored to 35+14vs armored)
50% area changed to 35% (=from 17.5+7.5vs armored to 17.5+7vs armored)
25% area changed to 17.5% (=from 8.75+3.75vs armored to 8.75+3.5vs armored)
- Upgrade bonus changed from 3(+2vs armored) to 5(+2vs armored)
Reasoning: Sieged Tank dps is very low currently: 12.5 + 5.4 vs armored. When the opponents are clumped and can be sniped with few tankshots this is OK, because the burst does a lot of work. But if you fight spread/big, high HP targets (Archon, Ultralisk, Colossus charging zealots, Hellbats) the tank damage isn't enough to outright kill them and since the damage over time (dps) is so low, tanks tend to underperform against such units. This damage/dps buff greatly helps tanks in its role to combat most other ground units. Meanwhile, the tanks splash stays the same, keeping it similarily strong against unit compositions such as MMM, roach/hydra, ling/bling. I like it. Maybe make a thread on bnet forums. TBH though, i don't think any of the suggestions matter. Blizzard almost never takes feedback like this. They will most likely remove the energy UP from the Ghost and buff both mech and bio in the process. Mostly bio.
Yeah. But I think +vs armored isn't as bad either, since it is a buff against some of the critical units as well (mostly lategame TvZ using tanks as counter to Ultralisks with biomech, against Colossi and against blink stalker allins). But it doesn't adress archons and zealots and runs the risk of completely destroying roach- and marauderplay (and thereby bioplay) against tanks.
Maybe gonna make one on us.battle.net.
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EPT
