Sometimes players call out each other for being imprecise with mouse movement and accuracy. I made a downloadable game for Windows resolution 1920x1080 to help practice accuracy. It is very simple, but can help you improve precision and stress management.
How to use the game: 1. Download the zip file, extract it anywhere you want and doubleclick on SnuteClickGame (red icon). 2. The game is now launched. Left-click the red-dot in the 'minimap' to begin the game. 3. Click the 3 red dots in the playfield to unlock another red dot in the minimap. 4. Repeat this and click as many red dots as possible before the time runs out. The time is shown in a green bar above the minimap. -- Tip: Try not to mis-click because hits and misses will be counted until the score screen. You want to have as many right clicks and as few misses as possible. -- Tip: Be conscious of your breathing and stress level when exercising this task. You may feel a stress similar to when under pressure in StarCraft if you're pushing yourself to clicking as many red buttons as possible. -- Tip: You can reset the game with F2 and exit the game with Alt-F4. The game will start on your main monitor and is only in Fullscreen 1920x1080.
How to make sense of this game, SC2 and optimal settings for your games 1. Uncheck 'Enable Mouse Sensitivity' in StarCraft 2. If you have been using the % slider function until now, you might want to stop. Disabling this option will make your pointer move the same way both in and out of game. Even when browsing the internet, clicking links, opening folders, you're still aiming and pointing and developing your precision.
2. Go to Control Panel, Mouse Properties, Pointer Options, make sure your mouse pointer speed is at 6/11. There are some pretty detailed topics here on TL explaining all of this so I'm not gonna go more into it. Disable "enhance pointer precision", also known as mouse acceleration.
3. If the speed is not comfortable with you, adjust the DPI on the mouse. Not all mice support this but if you have the option I'd recommend using that in combination with the settings in step 1 and 2.
As an example, I use the Razer Deathadder 2013 with 1900 dpi (default is 1800) and 6/11 in Windows at 1920x1080. Mouse sensitivity in SC2 is unchecked, so that my sense in SC2 and in Windows is the same.
What makes this game different from other flash/website precision trainers There are some precision trainers out there but none of them are built around SC2. The minimap and playfield is of the same size as SC2, so you'll be practicing precision in a somewhat familiar environment. While you're obviously not practicing StarCraft and the tasks you're executing in this game are totally different it should still be useful.
The major difference about this game and SC2 is that the things you need to click are extremely small and that you can't proceed with the game if you miss. The red buttons in this game are 10x10 pixels in size. Clicking in this game can be more difficult than clicking in StarCraft. If you think about it, most of the things you click in SC2 are big in size. Minerals are decently sized, main buildings are big, and sending workers to a gas geyser and executing macro doesn't require the precision of target-firing Banelings with Marines.
Which one is the most difficult to click, the Baneling or the Extractor?
A problem with SC2 is that the scenarios where you need spot-on precision don't happen often enough to get quality practice, and most of the time there isn't any real NEED for precision because you can still play decently and win games without. Very rarely does SC2 actively punish you for mis-clicking. An example is creep spread. You can have a very imprecise creep spread but still be able to win games, so you might not be aware of the improvement potential.
Some precision trainers have circles that change size, move or need to be pressed rapidly. This game is completely static and runs at your own pace. The buttons are very small but also do not move and are not on a timer. This makes the game playable for anyone regardless of your precision and speed skills.
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The game was made with a super old software called The Games Factory. I will not make it for other resolutions and I don't know how to make games in Flash or for websites, this is the only game programming I know. Just wanted to share it with u guys, who knows maybe someone who knows a bit more about game development will make a cooler and more useful trainer or something? maybe something in the Arcade? who knows~
Anyway maybe it will be helpful to some of you ^-^
Cool game Snute! I got 59 out of 67 on my best attempt. So hard, I think this really really can help improve accuracy. Do you plan on doing this as a warmup daily or anything?
I uploaded a 3rd version now that can be re-sized, it's kinda sketchy but it's the best I can do. T_T sorry~ only alternative would be to make one edition for every resolution out there, which would take a lot of time
Snute, this is great. would you consider making a similar game with moving targets? the red blocks might move at the speed of stimmed marines or speedlings. when you're using lings/marines as spotters, it's sometimes difficult to precision click while it's moving in order to unbind it from a control group.
I clicked 61 times right out of 61! Seems like a great tool to increase precision. Is there a difference between using 51% accuracy in sc2 and having it disabled?
In SC2 there is so much lasers and explosions, as well as flashing lights, that actually seeing the cursor and having it move very fast makes it difficult to track it in all of this. Having a nice blue background with easy to spot red dots is simply not the same at all.
I had been saying this for a while, but things like this are really really good for use as a warm up before playing starcraft sessions in the day, play three sessions a day? Play the trainer each time before. Also its a decent measurement for your immediate condition prior to practice or for the day. If you had little sleep, have not eaten or feel really off form you could probably expect your score to be lower than your average or high scores (keeping track of these scores might be interesting too). Good work on the program Jens.
I got 64/66 first try, any chance of ~25x25 or something bigger (whatever works) squares/circles version? Even with low DPI it's impossible to hit 10x10 on muscle memory (need to move, check position, move again, maybe check position and move again etc) which is what you try to avoid in the first place by having a good mouse sens and skill IMO
On December 20 2013 00:49 Cyro wrote: I got 64/66 first try, any chance of ~25x25 or something bigger (whatever works) squares/circles version? Even with low DPI it's impossible to hit 10x10 on muscle memory (need to move, check position, move again, maybe check position and move again etc) which is what you try to avoid in the first place by having a good mouse sens and skill IMO
Here is a picture of a marine with 26 pixel blue line through it*
Here's a rolling baneling with a 33 pixel red line through it
^So i think 20x20 or 25x25 is a much more appropriate target size on 1920x1080, as even 25x25 is reasonably smaller than an individual marine facing the most awkward direction, i think a slight delay to recheck mouse position is ok when selecting something like an individual larvae, but not a baneling for example, if possible
*actually, the main body of the marine, turned away from the camera, is something like ~25x40 - 1000 pixels in area - while a 10x10 target is 100 pixels (1/10'th of the size of a marine)
On December 20 2013 01:02 Metafour wrote: My god this is so hard for me. Gonna try to up my dpi from 800 :O
Hint: DPI change helps, but it's in the other direction 800dpi is great for sc2, but 10x10 pixels is much smaller than other stuff like i explained. Also, shattering your muscle memory probably won't help too much :D
On December 19 2013 22:08 sirdodgy wrote: Second try was 71/72, could probably get to 90 with some practice maybe. http://i.imgur.com/MmH1kr8.png
I would be far more playable if the rounds were like 10 seconds or less, but then I guess a lot would come down to spawn location luck.
I play way too much marine split challenge lol..
Wow, what dpi/mouse do you use?
G400, 400DPI, no % change ingame. High Diamond Terran, too retarded to get masters :D
I use low sens because in FPS games you improve at aiming much faster while using low sensitivity compared to with a high sensitivity. I think the same applies to RTS also. I have heard that MarineKing uses much lower sensitivity than virtually every other pro gamer and I like to think his micro is reflective of this.
The game favors low DPI quite a lot, as the squares are really small. With 800 raw DPI (windows 6/11 no accel), it's quite hard to nail the squares even though you get near them really fast (got to 60 after a few tries though, but found myself clicking around the squares a lot, even though only by a few pixels). Like I think 400 would be good for the game, but wouldn't work in sc2 as edge scrolling and clicking minimap would get really hard; and as the game was made to help for sc2... :p I second the bigger squares suggestion!
Logitech G9x Mouse acceleration was apparently on in Windows (thanks for making me check lol, I blame win 8) 800 DPI (play mostly FPS games you know. Should learn to use higher DPI)
Edit: After fixing mouse accel I clicked 64 times right out of 64!
(play mostly FPS games you know. Should learn to use higher DPI)
Why would you think higher to be better though? D: 800dpi is such a good undebatable number for 1920x1080, something like 450 can be argued too low for many things but 800 is just great
(play mostly FPS games you know. Should learn to use higher DPI)
Why would you think higher to be better though? D: 800dpi is such a good undebatable number for 1920x1080, something like 450 can be argued too low for many things but 800 is just great
Higher means lower movement, and thus if you learn to be precise can reach your target faster, am I not right?
I mean, 800 is great, and I'm not gonna change it even though I said I might do so
Or maybe I should....? less movement seems better...
Higher means lower movement, and thus if you learn to be precise can reach your target faster, am I not right?
No, not really, because 800dpi is more than enough to reach a target very quickly. 800dpi on 1920x1080 is 2.4 inches to cross screen - in comparison a snap turn in an FPS at the kind of sens i use is over 5x that
Lower DPI = easier to move a consistent distance, better muscle memory, less reliance on wrist, can hit a smaller target without moving, checking cursor position, moving again (or cycling quickly between move-check-move-check like many people with poor muscle memory or too small targets are forced to)
(play mostly FPS games you know. Should learn to use higher DPI)
Why would you think higher to be better though? D: 800dpi is such a good undebatable number for 1920x1080, something like 450 can be argued too low for many things but 800 is just great
Higher means lower movement, and thus if you learn to be precise can reach your target faster, am I not right?
I mean, 800 is great, and I'm not gonna change it even though I said I might do so
Or maybe I should....? less movement seems better...
MKP used to play with 600 dpi and he was known as one of the best micro players. I also doubt there is any korean pro who plays with more than 800 dpi. Is just foreigners, who either think the more dpi the faster you play or simply need more dpi, cause instead of you using hotkeys to move screenm they scroll arround with the mouse.
On December 19 2013 18:26 Liquid`Snute wrote: I uploaded a 3rd version now that can be re-sized, it's kinda sketchy but it's the best I can do. T_T sorry~ only alternative would be to make one edition for every resolution out there, which would take a lot of time
If you want more precision snute, maybe you should stop using drag scroll as it puts your mice out of center in realition to your screen every time you use it. It surely is more economic to drag scroll but really bad for precision^^.
No offense to Snute or anyone who designed this... but if you want to get better at clicking.. Play terran practice games and only make units that require target-fire stutter stepping (reaper harassing workers, marines without stim shooting slow banes, banshees attacking workers going into geysers without wasting shots...). It's really effective and it also makes you feel cool.
This is brilliant! Seeing improvements happening right before my eyes.
Is it possible to add in other click types? like maybe green dots for double clicking, yellow for right clicking and if you double click on a red dot everything explodes (as occasionally happens when trying to select a single worker in the mineral line).
Honestly i tried a lot. Managed to get 59 but this last number was hard to achieve for a long time. BTW Snute thank you. I use Razer Imperator with 400 dpi
On December 20 2013 08:03 THEPPLsELBOW wrote: No offense to Snute or anyone who designed this... but if you want to get better at clicking.. Play terran practice games and only make units that require target-fire stutter stepping (reaper harassing workers, marines without stim shooting slow banes, banshees attacking workers going into geysers without wasting shots...). It's really effective and it also makes you feel cool.
Those are situations you need to set up, then you do it once, and have to set it up again.
This game you can just fire up at any time and practice your precision. I think its a really nice concept that I would probably have used a lot if I still played sc2.
64 of 66 after a couple of tries. Think Ill get 70 by tomorrow
On December 20 2013 00:49 Cyro wrote: Even with low DPI it's impossible to hit 10x10 on muscle memory (need to move, check position, move again, maybe check position and move again etc) which is what you try to avoid in the first place by having a good mouse sens and skill IMO
Cool ~ you seem to know this a lot better than me, but -- do you think it's impossible to hit a 10x10 on muscle memory, or is it just a matter of practice? Is the skill of sightread/check/correct a thing that should be avoided, or should it be a well-practiced thing regardless?
In its current state, my precision trainer forces you to double-check in case of a miss, if you are determined to hit 100% not confident in muscle memory. With top-notch precision, would it still be possible to hit a 10x10-square from afar regardless of dpi, or is that just not humanly common?
On December 19 2013 22:08 sirdodgy wrote: Second try was 71/72, could probably get to 90 with some practice maybe. http://i.imgur.com/MmH1kr8.png
I would be far more playable if the rounds were like 10 seconds or less, but then I guess a lot would come down to spawn location luck.
I play way too much marine split challenge lol..
Wow, what dpi/mouse do you use?
G400 at 400dpi no ingame% change. Use low sense because I heard marineking used really low sens and low sens is good in quake so it made sense.
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On December 20 2013 03:04 aluhadora wrote: Both chrome and windows 8 seem to think that this is malware :S. I'm scared to run it on my work computer.
Yup it did that for me too, it's probably because it's a zipped .exe and .dll file which doesn't look good on paper. If I had a friend asking if the file was dangerous and I didn't know what it was i would say yes too.
It is relatively easy for me to add right-click squares, changeable sizes and such, but tbh it would be better if anyone else would want to take over, if there's interest, since i can't make it for different resolutions in a proper way.
On December 19 2013 22:08 sirdodgy wrote: Second try was 71/72, could probably get to 90 with some practice maybe. http://i.imgur.com/MmH1kr8.png
I would be far more playable if the rounds were like 10 seconds or less, but then I guess a lot would come down to spawn location luck.
I play way too much marine split challenge lol..
Wow, what dpi/mouse do you use?
G400 at 400dpi no ingame% change. Use low sense because I heard marineking used really low sens and low sens is good in quake so it made sense.
Well I can hardly argue if he hit 71/72 which is really good. But the reason quake, at its time, was better played at low dpi is actually because mouses back then used wheels and not laser/optical. What players could do, and did, was to lift the mouse up after moving it to the end of the mousepad, and the wheel would keep going for a while. This made it really fast despite the slow dpi, and then you would have a really nice slow precision aiming otherwise.
A lot of FPS players still stick with this even though they can't use this technique anymore. I've seen some weird solutions, like having mousepads bigger than your average sized bed, and just wave your entire arm around like its a workout. If it works, I see no reason to change it, but its hardly optimal.
I have no clue about korean players, but most western players in sc2 seems to play at a range of 1200 to 3500 dpi.
I would like to emphasize the difference between a low and high sensitivity player.
In FPS it was more about the low sensitivity players, although there were many very good players, who could play using very high apm.
I wont say, that you are not accurate when you use a very high DPI. It is all about percision and practice, you can surely be very good with 3500dpi. The difference is, that if you use a very high DPI the movement is mostly in the wrist. The wrist has a range of movement and is a mix from left to right and up and down.
With most of the professional shooting games the sensitivity was low for a reason. Most of the movement of the mouse came from the elbow, sometimes maybe the arm, but mostly the elbow was in a fixed position. The wrist also moved ofcorse to give a little bit more percision and help finalize the movement.
So what is the difference between the two? For high sensitivity players, aiming can be more shaky. Its on and off. On a good day you might be very percise, but you can also have days, where you dont hit for shit. Thats because you have to really carefully control your wrist along the x-axis and y-axis at the same time.
A lower fps shooter has a much better overall / stable accuracy and hit percentage. That comes from the fact, that different joints control different areas of movement. So if we talk about moving from left to right, it is mostly done from the elbow and not from the wrist.
You can try moving steadily from left to right with 2500dpi with your wrist and then with 800 dpi with your elbow. One is very steady, the other needs you to focus very hard.
To summarize:
In FPS low sensitivity was belived to be a more stable way to play. Your aim did not require so much consentration. I am not saying that it applies to FPS, because the motions are different, there is alot more movement between up and down, and that surely requires a faster movement speed.
I am currently playing SC2 with Razer Deathadder 900dpi.
On December 20 2013 00:49 Cyro wrote: Even with low DPI it's impossible to hit 10x10 on muscle memory (need to move, check position, move again, maybe check position and move again etc) which is what you try to avoid in the first place by having a good mouse sens and skill IMO
Cool ~ you seem to know this a lot better than me, but -- do you think it's impossible to hit a 10x10 on muscle memory, or is it just a matter of practice? Is the skill of sightread/check/correct a thing that should be avoided, or should it be a well-practiced thing regardless?
In its current state, my precision trainer forces you to double-check in case of a miss, if you are determined to hit 100% not confident in muscle memory. With top-notch precision, would it still be possible to hit a 10x10-square from afar regardless of dpi, or is that just not humanly common?
On December 20 2013 03:04 aluhadora wrote: Both chrome and windows 8 seem to think that this is malware :S. I'm scared to run it on my work computer.
Yup it did that for me too, it's probably because it's a zipped .exe and .dll file which doesn't look good on paper. If I had a friend asking if the file was dangerous and I didn't know what it was i would say yes too.
It is relatively easy for me to add right-click squares, changeable sizes and such, but tbh it would be better if anyone else would want to take over, if there's interest, since i can't make it for different resolutions in a proper way.
10x10 is just too small, it's impossible to reasonably hit ever without re-checking mouse position* so lower(reasonable) DPI users don't get the advantage that they should (in being able to select smaller targets easily on muscle memory) because the target is too small for both 800 and 2000dpi. If you made it bigger, skill levels and DPI's would diverge more i think, but it'd also just be much more useful for practicing being able to hit stuff on muscle memory, which should be the overall goal IMO**
The marine pic i showed has a body taking up ~1000 pixels, the squares are 100, 25x25 would be 625
*10 pixels wide.. >if< you have a perfect mouse sensor (most are not really capable of this even with perfect movement) then you have a 1% margin for error if you move half of the screen, and that's just too small. I think 3-5% is more reasonable (30-50 pixels wide), but it's really hard to say without trying it. 30x30 target would be smaller than rolling baneling a little, if it was circular. You'd probably not be able to hit that from cross-screen, but it's reasonable if the mouse is somewhat close
**Right now the goal isn't to actually hit the target. It's to move the mouse close to it so that you can check the mouse position and move it again, and that's not ideal
And yea, i think 800dpi 100% for sc2. Maybe 1000. My best worker splits ever were at 360dpi, but because drag scroll etc scales with DPI i find it difficult to use less than ~630 quickly, but by 800-1000 you're not really in "low dpi" territory any more
There is a lot of misinformation about sensitivity and mice with RTS players as the effects of a poor mouse or sensitivity aren't as glaring as they are in competitive shooters. It doesn't really matter that much at a casual level but it has always baffled me when pro players would use bad mice or strange configs for seemingly no reason. While these things can not matter when you practice 12 hours a day for years, but I really believe starting off with a good foundation via a good mouse and low sensitivity allows players to improve their accuracy at a much faster pace.
How good a mouse is boils down to basically two things:
1. Does it have a flawless (or near) sensor free from angle snapping, inbuilt acceleration prediction etc etc?
2. What is its malfunction speed? IE, how fast can it be dragged before an error occurs in its tracking, most mice will lock up if you drag them extremely fast. This is the reason quake pro for the longest time would have to use positive acceleration if they wanted to use at all low sensitivity.
Here is a list of mice that are thought to have near perfect sensors. However the malfunction speed between these mice will differ greatly. If you aren't looking to have a particularly low sensitivity (lower than 800dpi in SC2 or higher than 25cm360 in fps games), most of the mice on that list will be fine (very nice mouse snute, Iv heard its quite heavy though).
Mice containing the ADNS-3090 sensor or variants of it such as the G400, Zowie AM, and CMStorm Spawn (Edit: apparently the CMStorm has lots of firmware issues which still havent been fixed) have the highest malfunction speed and are in my opinion the best mice available on the market right now. If you are looking to pick up a new mouse I would recommend getting one with that sensor.
In regards to sensitivity, most will say its simply personal preference but I truly believe that a lower sensitivity allows players to improve significantly faster than with a higher sensitivity and even will allow a greater ceiling of accuracy. I have seen this when introducing numerous players to a competitive game, those who followed my advice of a low sensitivity and a solid mouse always improved drastically faster than those who would keep a high sensitivity.
In quake the players with lower sensitivity tended to be the ones with the best aim. Strenx has over 50cm/360 and is regarded to have the best LG in quake live. MarineKing significantly the best marine splitter and micro player of his reign was said to have much lower sensitivity vs most other players, I really believe a low sens is the way to go, at least starting off.
SC2 is my first competitive RTS, I have a little over 2k games and attribute a lot of my mouse accuracy to the fact that I did my research on mice, started with a low sensitivity, a large mousematt and a G400. I can split marines pretty good too and have never had any problems due to my low sensitivity, only positive effects. I also suspect that due to lower sensitivity making you rely more on your arm for mouse movement, it might reduce your risk of wrist injury.
On December 20 2013 19:58 sirdodgy wrote: I tried it a couple more times 76/77 http://imgur.com/wGAi490
G400, 400DPI
There is a lot of misinformation about sensitivity and mice with RTS players as the effects of a poor mouse or sensitivity aren't as glaring as they are in competitive shooters. It doesn't really matter that much at a casual level but it has always baffled me when pro players would use bad mice or strange configs for seemingly no reason. While these things can not matter when you practice 12 hours a day for years, but I really believe starting off with a good foundation via a good mouse and low sensitivity allows players to improve their accuracy at a much faster pace.
[...]
In regards to sensitivity, most will say its simply personal preference but I truly believe that a lower sensitivity allows players to improve significantly faster than with a higher sensitivity and even will allow a greater ceiling of accuracy. I have seen this when introducing numerous players to a competitive game, those who followed my advice of a low sensitivity and a solid mouse always improved drastically faster than those who would keep a high sensitivity.
In quake the players with lower sensitivity tended to be the ones with the best aim. Rapha has over 50cm/360 and is regarded to have the best LG in quake live. MarineKing significantly the best marine splitter and micro player of his reign was said to have much lower sensitivity vs most other players, I really believe a low sens is the way to go, at least starting off.
SC2 is my first competitive RTS, I have a little over 2k games and attribute a lot of my mouse accuracy to the fact that I did my research on mice, started with a low sensitivity, a large mousematt and a G400. I can split marines pretty good too and have never had any problems due to my low sensitivity, only positive effects. I also suspect that due to lower sensitivity making you rely more on your arm for mouse movement, it might reduce your risk of wrist injury.
TLDR: Too many people think the DPI limit of a mouse is anything but a marketing gimmick.
You sir, I dont see any reason for what you said to be wrong. I'll definately stick to my comfy 800 after this. Thanks for the list of mice aswell, it's listed that my G9x has "positive acceleration", does that mean it actually moves my mice longer the faster I move it? or whats the deal?
Also, do you think a player like Snute here who uses 1900 DPI will notice an increase in skill after a relatively short amount of time after lowering his sensitivity? Or do you think that him haivng used 1900 all his career and beeing as used to it as he is makes it a useless effort?
Seeing as he hit 61/61 and you get 70+ I gues that question answers itself, or is this human differences?
it's listed that my G9x has "positive acceleration", does that mean it actually moves my mice longer the faster I move it? or whats the deal?
The sensor used is rather inconsistent, depending on the speed you move the mouse, if you move a distance that is supposed to move cursor 1000 pixels it might move ~970 pixels, or 1050, at extremes. It averages out to moving like 4% faster than it's supposed to, and is more pronounced if you are using a sensitivity that has a range of movement speeds (using like 2000dpi for example you'll never move the mouse anything but a very slow fingertip/wrist-controlled movement)
Also, do you think a player like Snute here who uses 1900 DPI will notice an increase in skill after a relatively short amount of time after lowering his sensitivity? Or do you think that him haivng used 1900 all his career and beeing as used to it as he is makes it a useless effort?
I think he would 100%. Maybe not on this test though - it'd help a little, but if the targets were for example 50x50 then it would be much more pronounced
On December 20 2013 19:58 sirdodgy wrote: I tried it a couple more times 76/77 http://imgur.com/wGAi490
G400, 400DPI
There is a lot of misinformation about sensitivity and mice with RTS players as the effects of a poor mouse or sensitivity aren't as glaring as they are in competitive shooters. It doesn't really matter that much at a casual level but it has always baffled me when pro players would use bad mice or strange configs for seemingly no reason. While these things can not matter when you practice 12 hours a day for years, but I really believe starting off with a good foundation via a good mouse and low sensitivity allows players to improve their accuracy at a much faster pace.
How good a mouse is boils down to basically two things:
1. Does it have a flawless (or near) sensor free from angle snapping, inbuilt acceleration prediction etc etc?
2. What is its malfunction speed? IE, how fast can it be dragged before an error occurs in its tracking, most mice will lock up if you drag them extremely fast. This is the reason quake pro for the longest time would have to use positive acceleration if they wanted to use at all low sensitivity.
Here is a list of mice that are thought to have near perfect sensors. However the malfunction speed between these mice will differ greatly. If you aren't looking to have a particularly low sensitivity (lower than 800dpi in SC2 or higher than 25cm360 in fps games), most of the mice on that list will be fine (very nice mouse snute, Iv heard its quite heavy though).
Mice containing the ADNS-3090 sensor or variants of it such as the G400, Zowie AM, and CMStorm Spawn have the highest malfunction speed and are in my opinion the best mice available on the market right now. If you are looking to pick up a new mouse I would recommend getting one with that sensor.
In regards to sensitivity, most will say its simply personal preference but I truly believe that a lower sensitivity allows players to improve significantly faster than with a higher sensitivity and even will allow a greater ceiling of accuracy. I have seen this when introducing numerous players to a competitive game, those who followed my advice of a low sensitivity and a solid mouse always improved drastically faster than those who would keep a high sensitivity.
In quake the players with lower sensitivity tended to be the ones with the best aim. Rapha has over 50cm/360 and is regarded to have the best LG in quake live. MarineKing significantly the best marine splitter and micro player of his reign was said to have much lower sensitivity vs most other players, I really believe a low sens is the way to go, at least starting off.
SC2 is my first competitive RTS, I have a little over 2k games and attribute a lot of my mouse accuracy to the fact that I did my research on mice, started with a low sensitivity, a large mousematt and a G400. I can split marines pretty good too and have never had any problems due to my low sensitivity, only positive effects. I also suspect that due to lower sensitivity making you rely more on your arm for mouse movement, it might reduce your risk of wrist injury.
TLDR: Too many people think the DPI limit of a mouse is anything but a marketing gimmick.
Fun game, although it could be cooler with actual pixel-precision models like a marine og banelings since your cant rely on your settings for this exercise while the actual targeting areas in sc2 are highers thus allow for more speed in mice.
You sir, I dont see any reason for what you said to be wrong. I'll definately stick to my comfy 800 after this. Thanks for the list of mice aswell, it's listed that my G9x has "positive acceleration", does that mean it actually moves my mice longer the faster I move it? or whats the deal?
Also, do you think a player like Snute here who uses 1900 DPI will notice an increase in skill after a relatively short amount of time after lowering his sensitivity? Or do you think that him haivng used 1900 all his career and beeing as used to it as he is makes it a useless effort?
Seeing as he hit 61/61 and you get 70+ I gues that question answers itself, or is this human differences?
I'm some retard diamond scrub on the internet trying too hard at forum replies so who am I to give advice to any pro-gamer but I do think 1900 dpi seems pretty damn high.
Going from something as high as 1900 to something like 800 would be extremely jarring and take a very long time to get used to as it means going from using your wrist solely to using a mix of arm and wrist. I think in the long run it would result in positive effects on his accuracy, just whether its worth sacrificing in the short term is up to him.
Yeah I'm not sure how to feel about this. I'm obviously using an insanely high DPI but I can still do decent in both this game and in SC2, the only thing I know is that going from 1900 to 800 would be a huge change.
On December 20 2013 22:12 Liquid`Snute wrote: Yeah I'm not sure how to feel about this. I'm obviously using an insanely high DPI but I can still do decent in both this game and in SC2, the only thing I know is that going from 1900 to 800 would be a huge change.
I recently switched from 1900 to 800 dpi, and my general accuracy improved a lot almost immediately. The only negative thing was that I couldn't forcefield as fast. I think that has a lot to do with muscle memory tho, so I think I can train it to be as good or even better. One thing you should keep in mind is that while it's relatively easy to go from high to low sensitivity, it's much harder to go the other way, at least in my experience.
How to make sense of this game, SC2 and optimal settings for your games 1. Uncheck 'Enable Mouse Sensitivity' in StarCraft 2. If you have been using the % slider function until now, you might want to stop. Disabling this option will make your pointer move the same way both in and out of game. Even when browsing the internet, clicking links, opening folders, you're still aiming and pointing and developing your precision.
2. Go to Control Panel, Mouse Properties, Pointer Options, make sure your mouse pointer speed is at 6/11. There are some pretty detailed topics here on TL explaining all of this so I'm not gonna go more into it. Disable "enhance pointer precision", also known as mouse acceleration.
3. If the speed is not comfortable with you, adjust the DPI on the mouse. Not all mice support this but if you have the option I'd recommend using that in combination with the settings in step 1 and 2.
As an example, I use the Razer Deathadder 2013 with 1900 dpi (default is 1800) and 6/11 in Windows at 1920x1080. Mouse sensitivity in SC2 is unchecked, so that my sense in SC2 and in Windows is the same.
I dont know if it has been discussed previously in the thread but, the step 2 is kinda wrongish, you need a proper fix to disable the windows accel.
Also, 1900dpi looks lightning fast, like when you on stress and you muscles contract too much, if you're used to control by little twitch movements, It will become harder to be precise. Also, Its harder to build muscle memory from too smalls movements
How to make sense of this game, SC2 and optimal settings for your games 1. Uncheck 'Enable Mouse Sensitivity' in StarCraft 2. If you have been using the % slider function until now, you might want to stop. Disabling this option will make your pointer move the same way both in and out of game. Even when browsing the internet, clicking links, opening folders, you're still aiming and pointing and developing your precision.
2. Go to Control Panel, Mouse Properties, Pointer Options, make sure your mouse pointer speed is at 6/11. There are some pretty detailed topics here on TL explaining all of this so I'm not gonna go more into it. Disable "enhance pointer precision", also known as mouse acceleration.
3. If the speed is not comfortable with you, adjust the DPI on the mouse. Not all mice support this but if you have the option I'd recommend using that in combination with the settings in step 1 and 2.
As an example, I use the Razer Deathadder 2013 with 1900 dpi (default is 1800) and 6/11 in Windows at 1920x1080. Mouse sensitivity in SC2 is unchecked, so that my sense in SC2 and in Windows is the same.
I dont know if it has been discussed previously in the thread but, the step 2 is kinda wrongish, you need a proper fix to disable the windows accel.
Also, 1900dpi looks lightning fast, like when you on stress and you muscles contract too much, if you're used to control by little twitch movements, It will become harder to be precise. Also, Its harder to build muscle memory from too smalls movements
Thanks for the wisdom, I've heard about the registry fixes before but I don't know if it's a legit thing to do at tournaments and it seems like additional stress to set up at multiple pcs :/ 1900dpi is fast yes but somehow I'm used to it. Considering whether to re-learn from scratch or keep going.
This is an interesting topic. I'm using a Logitech MX518 and i always kept my DPI at 1800 on 1920x1080 resolution. I tried lowering the DPI to 800 but i just can't move the pointer comfortably and i raised it to 1300-1450 while playing this game and Osu. I won't embarass myself by posting my scores on both games but i think if i keep training on this new sensitivity i will improve my overall accuracy. I just love when these kind of topics come on TL.
This is really cool, tried it a couple of times and my highest score was when I focused on going slow. Not a snail pace mind you, but I did much better than when I was trying to sprint from square to square.
There is a lot of misinformation about sensitivity and mice with RTS players as the effects of a poor mouse or sensitivity aren't as glaring as they are in competitive shooters. It doesn't really matter that much at a casual level but it has always baffled me when pro players would use bad mice or strange configs for seemingly no reason. While these things can not matter when you practice 12 hours a day for years, but I really believe starting off with a good foundation via a good mouse and low sensitivity allows players to improve their accuracy at a much faster pace.
How good a mouse is boils down to basically two things:
1. Does it have a flawless (or near) sensor free from angle snapping, inbuilt acceleration prediction etc etc?
2. What is its malfunction speed? IE, how fast can it be dragged before an error occurs in its tracking, most mice will lock up if you drag them extremely fast. This is the reason quake pro for the longest time would have to use positive acceleration if they wanted to use at all low sensitivity.
Here is a list of mice that are thought to have near perfect sensors. However the malfunction speed between these mice will differ greatly. If you aren't looking to have a particularly low sensitivity (lower than 800dpi in SC2 or higher than 25cm360 in fps games), most of the mice on that list will be fine (very nice mouse snute, Iv heard its quite heavy though).
Mice containing the ADNS-3090 sensor or variants of it such as the G400, Zowie AM, and CMStorm Spawn (Edit: apparently the CMStorm has lots of firmware issues which still havent been fixed) have the highest malfunction speed and are in my opinion the best mice available on the market right now. If you are looking to pick up a new mouse I would recommend getting one with that sensor.
In regards to sensitivity, most will say its simply personal preference but I truly believe that a lower sensitivity allows players to improve significantly faster than with a higher sensitivity and even will allow a greater ceiling of accuracy. I have seen this when introducing numerous players to a competitive game, those who followed my advice of a low sensitivity and a solid mouse always improved drastically faster than those who would keep a high sensitivity.
In quake the players with lower sensitivity tended to be the ones with the best aim. Strenx has over 50cm/360 and is regarded to have the best LG in quake live. MarineKing significantly the best marine splitter and micro player of his reign was said to have much lower sensitivity vs most other players, I really believe a low sens is the way to go, at least starting off.
SC2 is my first competitive RTS, I have a little over 2k games and attribute a lot of my mouse accuracy to the fact that I did my research on mice, started with a low sensitivity, a large mousematt and a G400. I can split marines pretty good too and have never had any problems due to my low sensitivity, only positive effects. I also suspect that due to lower sensitivity making you rely more on your arm for mouse movement, it might reduce your risk of wrist injury.
TLDR: Storm op.
This is why I sought out ex Quake players to help me choose my mouse settings ty for the post! nice marine splits btw.
Snute, you don't use the mouse acceleration registry fix?!?!?! That amazes me that 100% of pros don't use it. I don't know if its tournament legal or not I guess. If you can find a way to get rid of your mouse accel you'll be very impressed by the difference. Check out the MarkC program anyway, its free and you can uninstall it easily. It comes with a little program that shows whether you're experiencing acceleration too.
Also,
I'm some retard diamond scrub on the internet trying too hard at forum replies so who am I to give advice to any pro-gamer but I do think 1900 dpi seems pretty damn high.
Going from something as high as 1900 to something like 800 would be extremely jarring and take a very long time to get used to as it means going from using your wrist solely to using a mix of arm and wrist. I think in the long run it would result in positive effects on his accuracy, just whether its worth sacrificing in the short term is up to him.
Regarding high vs low dpi, I played with 800dpi as terran for a long time and I'm pretty fast and accurate (55/60 in the game). However, when I switched to zerg I found that things like queen injects and some macro functions were difficult because I had to swipe my hand so fast and so often, and after switching to 1600dpi my macro improved significantly. My micro went downhill, but its zerg, right? Accuracy or not, I'm 2 leagues higher as zerg than my main, terran...
I'm going to experiment with 400dpi like the gentleman I quoted, see what its like! I think it'll be hard on my elbow and shoulder though.
When I removed SC2 and switched to BW I lost a great training map that does what this does very well but in game and with moving units. It isn't difficult to make but I don't have SC2 now so if anyone wants to throw it together:
There's one of every unit for every race in the top left, and an area beside them where you move the unit you want to practice clicking on.
If there's a unit in that area, it spawns a group of units of that type (10-15 can't remember) in a random other part of the map, which you navigate to with the mini-map to practice clicking down there. There's a 50/50 chance that the group is ordered to move to a random other place on the map to practice clicking both stationary and moving units.
Four of those units were a different color than the rest, and when you click them they die. Clicking any of the other ones causes that whole group to die and counts as a failure. A new group spawns.
If you click (kill) the four different colored ones without clicking on any other ones, the rest die and it counts as a success. A new group spawns.
There was no time limit, just counters for successes and failures. It was really good practice with Zerglings. This program is good but nothing beats practicing using a map in game.
I clicked 60 times right out of 60! after one hour of practice and its feel so hard to do more :D Thx its really nice game for precision I will try more ^___^ Edit:after 1 more hour I clicked 64 times right out of 64! and its feels very very tuff to get more ^__^ ok a bit better I clicked 66 times right out of 66! ok my record now is I clicked 67 times right out of 67! Update: My wife clicked 52 times right out of 61! from first time :D
I'm not sure the registry fix is really needed aside from for old games (CS 1.6, quake etc). Installed it to be sure and saw no change at all, I'm 100% sure that I had no accel while playing SC2 or other games with just the windows pointer precision unchecked.
On December 21 2013 20:13 RoccatDIMAGA wrote: I clicked 60 times right out of 60! after one hour of practice and its feel so hard to do more :D Thx its really nice game for precision I will try more ^___^ Edit:after 1 more hour I clicked 64 times right out of 64! and its feels very very tuff to get more ^__^ Update: My wife clicked 52 times right out of 61! from first time :D
I wonder, if you're going to change from a higher dpi to a lower one (say, 2000 to 1500), would it pay off to actually practice for a while at 1000? The theory behind it would be that if you're going to incrementally lower your mouse speed you'll keep all the habits from the faster speeds, while if you go significantly below that you can better relearn how to use the new speed. It's just a theory though.
On December 21 2013 22:02 Grumbels wrote: I wonder, if you're going to change from a higher dpi to a lower one (say, 2000 to 1500), would it pay off to actually practice for a while at 1000? The theory behind it would be that if you're going to incrementally lower your mouse speed you'll keep all the habits from the faster speeds, while if you go significantly below that you can better relearn how to use the new speed. It's just a theory though.
I think overshooting it would only lengthen the time taken to get used to the new settings. Pick a DPI you think would be optimal to play at, 800 is probably a solid number even though I use 400 and either rip the bandaid off in one change or slowly lower your dpi every few days until you reach the goal.
It really sucks ass when you first are using a new sensitivity or hotkeys, especially in a competitive game as it makes you feel like you are being held back. To reduce temptation of quitting on a new setup Id suggest playing a less competitive game type until you are used to it. Be it marine split challenge, practicing build orders or team games, anything where you wont get frustrated when you lose is the best way to stick to the change. Mouse sensitivity changes are way easier than new hotkeys so you should be back to your peak pretty fast.
I overshoot when i make any big change, but i've used everything from 3200 to 360dpi for periods of time. Might not be smart for someone who's not used to adjusting.. It takes me hours to get basic function good, days/weeks/months to get muscle memory up to be better with the sens than i have been with mouse before
On December 22 2013 02:59 QzYSc2 wrote: good thing i play protoss so i dont really need this
Thats hilariously wrong. You dont think you need precision when microing your stalkers, placing those forcefields, microing 4 control groups of different units, splitting and targeting banelings, even as simple as warping in a crowded field?
On December 22 2013 02:59 QzYSc2 wrote: good thing i play protoss so i dont really need this
Thats hilariously wrong. You dont think you need precision when microing your stalkers, placing those forcefields, microing 4 control groups of different units, splitting and targeting banelings, even as simple as warping in a crowded field?
yes, my OPINION is wrong. yours is correct. /sarcasm. placing forcefields has a way bigger template and easier to do, then the accuracy required to click lets say a baneling.
yes this is only my opinion incase you didn't realize, and no my opinion cant be wrong.
edit: also, who the hell plays protoss with 4 control groups? warping in a crowded field you can just spam click, no accuracy required. feedback on medivac ghost you can spam click, because you can't actually cast it on marines/marauders. snipe on zealot instead of templar or zergling instead of baneling? oh sh-t.
On December 22 2013 02:59 QzYSc2 wrote: good thing i play protoss so i dont really need this
Thats hilariously wrong. You dont think you need precision when microing your stalkers, placing those forcefields, microing 4 control groups of different units, splitting and targeting banelings, even as simple as warping in a crowded field?
yes, my OPINION is wrong. yours is correct. /sarcasm. placing forcefields has a way bigger template and easier to do, then the accuracy required to click lets say a baneling.
yes this is only my opinion incase you didn't realize, and no my opinion cant be wrong.
edit: also, who the hell plays protoss with 4 control groups? warping in a crowded field you can just spam click, no accuracy required. feedback on medivac ghost you can spam click, because you can't actually cast it on marines/marauders. snipe on zealot instead of templar or zergling instead of baneling? oh sh-t.
Yes. Your OPINION in this case is wrong /not sarcasm. If you come back as gm or do well in a major tournament you can opinionate as much as you want. Until then you are wrong about this subject.
Look up Dunner Kruger while youre at it if you wonder why this is.
On December 22 2013 02:59 QzYSc2 wrote: good thing i play protoss so i dont really need this
Thats hilariously wrong. You dont think you need precision when microing your stalkers, placing those forcefields, microing 4 control groups of different units, splitting and targeting banelings, even as simple as warping in a crowded field?
yes, my OPINION is wrong. yours is correct. /sarcasm. placing forcefields has a way bigger template and easier to do, then the accuracy required to click lets say a baneling.
yes this is only my opinion incase you didn't realize, and no my opinion cant be wrong.
edit: also, who the hell plays protoss with 4 control groups? warping in a crowded field you can just spam click, no accuracy required. feedback on medivac ghost you can spam click, because you can't actually cast it on marines/marauders. snipe on zealot instead of templar or zergling instead of baneling? oh sh-t.
Yes. Your OPINION in this case is wrong /not sarcasm. If you come back as gm or do well in a major tournament you can opinionate as much as you want. Until then you are wrong about this subject.
Look up Dunner Kruger while youre at it if you wonder why this is.
On December 23 2013 16:53 MarlieChurphy wrote: Uh, my resolution on windows and in game is much lower. How different will this be for me, or can I even run it?
Also, just simply clicking unmoving targets is easy if that's all this is, try picking out a damaged ling in a group of them running on creep..
PS- someone port this to flash/browser.
It's really fast to DL and unpack, go try yourself. It'll be faster than posting and waiting for reply, and give you better information.
imo, the boxes as so small that it doesn't feel really relevant for sc2. Make the boxes larger and make me press some keys on the keyboard every now and then, and I'll be all over it.
On December 23 2013 16:53 MarlieChurphy wrote: Uh, my resolution on windows and in game is much lower. How different will this be for me, or can I even run it?
Also, just simply clicking unmoving targets is easy if that's all this is, try picking out a damaged ling in a group of them running on creep..
PS- someone port this to flash/browser.
It's really fast to DL and unpack, go try yourself. It'll be faster than posting and waiting for reply, and give you better information.
imo, the boxes as so small that it doesn't feel really relevant for sc2. Make the boxes larger and make me press some keys on the keyboard every now and then, and I'll be all over it.
Obviously it's not about being 100% as SC2 but to improve precision clicking. Your argument is invalid - compare it to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeet_shooting - would you argue that it doesn't help with - I don't know - duck hunting because ducks are bigger than 110mm in diameter?
EDIT: Also notice that both Snute and DIMAGA have high scores with up to 100% precision. Coincidence?
Alright, I tried playing with 400 dpi. The control is great, but I have to move across my entire mousepad to scroll my screen just a bit. The bigger thing though is the time it takes to box or click something: with the pointer moving so much slower, it takes a lot of effort and time. If I was to try to camera-hotkey inject 3 bases as zerg I think I'd go insane. Going to give it a bit more of a try though.
I heard MKP used 600dpi. That might do the trick if 400 is too low.
Ok, fine, anything that involves using keyboard and/or mouse improves your sc2. And mouse accuracy is ofc always good for sc2. What i meant was that while the amount you move the cursor over the screen is a typical sc2 distance (as snute made sure by setting resolution), the target size is smaller than anything you will find in sc2. Thus not a movement you'd have to do in sc2, which is why I said it was not relevant. Also it could easily be fixed, by increasing the size just a bit.
On December 23 2013 19:59 CutTheEnemy wrote: Alright, I tried playing with 400 dpi. The control is great, but I have to move across my entire mousepad to scroll my screen just a bit. The bigger thing though is the time it takes to box or click something: with the pointer moving so much slower, it takes a lot of effort and time. If I was to try to camera-hotkey inject 3 bases as zerg I think I'd go insane. Going to give it a bit more of a try though.
I heard MKP used 600dpi. That might do the trick if 400 is too low.
I got a Microsoft basic optical mouse. On 400 dpi and 6/11, it's totally unplayable. My Abyssus on 6/11 and 1800 dpi is perfect. I don't like very high dpi mice either, but moving your hand across your desk everytime you want to make a move isn't realistic.
The control is great, but I have to move across my entire mousepad to scroll my screen just a bit.
Scrolling the screen by touching the edge is one of the most widely done bad-habits that i can think of for sc2 mechanics; with reliance on camera hotkeys and mousewheel drag scroll (which you can force yourself to develop by playing at 360dpi) you can become a much better and faster player if you try
though i don't argue for 360/450dpi in sc2. I use 630 (again.. really can't switch up damnit) but 800 is a great number and i don't see reason for over 1-1.2k; seems by that point you are beginning to handicap yourself for no gain
on 1920x1080, 1 inch to cross screen = 1920dpi
3 inches to cross screen = 640dpi
My mousepad is 45x40cm, so 3 inches (7.62cm) is basically not moving on it, super low distance compared to fps games
On December 22 2013 02:59 QzYSc2 wrote: good thing i play protoss so i dont really need this
Thats hilariously wrong. You dont think you need precision when microing your stalkers, placing those forcefields, microing 4 control groups of different units, splitting and targeting banelings, even as simple as warping in a crowded field?
yes, my OPINION is wrong. yours is correct. /sarcasm. placing forcefields has a way bigger template and easier to do, then the accuracy required to click lets say a baneling.
yes this is only my opinion incase you didn't realize, and no my opinion cant be wrong.
edit: also, who the hell plays protoss with 4 control groups? warping in a crowded field you can just spam click, no accuracy required. feedback on medivac ghost you can spam click, because you can't actually cast it on marines/marauders. snipe on zealot instead of templar or zergling instead of baneling? oh sh-t.
Yes. Your OPINION in this case is wrong /not sarcasm. If you come back as gm or do well in a major tournament you can opinionate as much as you want. Until then you are wrong about this subject.
Look up Dunner Kruger while youre at it if you wonder why this is.
look, 1+1 = 3 is wrong. i like blue over black = opinion = cant be wrong stealing = bad = opinion = cant be wrong i do not suffer from this illusory superiority, do say where i was wrong.
i can have an opinion as much as i want aslong you don't own the site. i thought the forums is for discussing and sharing your opinion?
On December 22 2013 02:59 QzYSc2 wrote: good thing i play protoss so i dont really need this
Thats hilariously wrong. You dont think you need precision when microing your stalkers, placing those forcefields, microing 4 control groups of different units, splitting and targeting banelings, even as simple as warping in a crowded field?
yes, my OPINION is wrong. yours is correct. /sarcasm. placing forcefields has a way bigger template and easier to do, then the accuracy required to click lets say a baneling.
yes this is only my opinion incase you didn't realize, and no my opinion cant be wrong.
edit: also, who the hell plays protoss with 4 control groups? warping in a crowded field you can just spam click, no accuracy required. feedback on medivac ghost you can spam click, because you can't actually cast it on marines/marauders. snipe on zealot instead of templar or zergling instead of baneling? oh sh-t.
Yes. Your OPINION in this case is wrong /not sarcasm. If you come back as gm or do well in a major tournament you can opinionate as much as you want. Until then you are wrong about this subject.
Look up Dunner Kruger while youre at it if you wonder why this is.
look, 1+1 = 3 is wrong. i like blue over black = opinion = cant be wrong stealing = bad = opinion = cant be wrong i do not suffer from this illusory superiority, do say where i was wrong.
i can have an opinion as much as i want aslong you don't own the site. i thought the forums is for discussing and sharing your opinion?
"Good thing in formula one you don't really need to know how to change gears". You see how I can say with certainty that "opinion" is absolutely wrong? You can opinionate all you want about how you don't feel like you need precision as protoss in your league. But the reason you are wrong is because you made a broad statement saying "protoss doesn't need precision", and I can tell you with certainty from experience and everyone I have talked to who are better than me, that if you want to get be good in this game, as in GM or better, you need precision. Thats why you are wrong. If you come back after winning a large tournament, you can make broad statements about this game as much as you like, and whatever I say would be wrong. You'd be the formula one driver then, and no one not currently doing it could possibly tell what is required. Alas, Dunner Kruger: "The knowledge required to know just how difficult something is, is usually the same knowledge that would make you good in it to begin with".
Can someone confirm that they've gotten better results by doing this for a few days? I'm a little sceptical that it actually improves you. I think it's great tool to measure your current mouse precision though.
On December 22 2013 02:59 QzYSc2 wrote: good thing i play protoss so i dont really need this
Thats hilariously wrong. You dont think you need precision when microing your stalkers, placing those forcefields, microing 4 control groups of different units, splitting and targeting banelings, even as simple as warping in a crowded field?
yes, my OPINION is wrong. yours is correct. /sarcasm. placing forcefields has a way bigger template and easier to do, then the accuracy required to click lets say a baneling.
yes this is only my opinion incase you didn't realize, and no my opinion cant be wrong.
edit: also, who the hell plays protoss with 4 control groups? warping in a crowded field you can just spam click, no accuracy required. feedback on medivac ghost you can spam click, because you can't actually cast it on marines/marauders. snipe on zealot instead of templar or zergling instead of baneling? oh sh-t.
Yes. Your OPINION in this case is wrong /not sarcasm. If you come back as gm or do well in a major tournament you can opinionate as much as you want. Until then you are wrong about this subject.
Look up Dunner Kruger while youre at it if you wonder why this is.
look, 1+1 = 3 is wrong. i like blue over black = opinion = cant be wrong stealing = bad = opinion = cant be wrong i do not suffer from this illusory superiority, do say where i was wrong.
i can have an opinion as much as i want aslong you don't own the site. i thought the forums is for discussing and sharing your opinion?
"Good thing in formula one you don't really need to know how to change gears". You see how I can say with certainty that "opinion" is absolutely wrong? You can opinionate all you want about how you don't feel like you need precision as protoss in your league. But the reason you are wrong is because you made a broad statement saying "protoss doesn't need precision", and I can tell you with certainty from experience and everyone I have talked to who are better than me, that if you want to get be good in this game, as in GM or better, you need precision. Thats why you are wrong. If you come back after winning a large tournament, you can make broad statements about this game as much as you like, and whatever I say would be wrong. You'd be the formula one driver then, and no one not currently doing it could possibly tell what is required. Alas, Dunner Kruger: "The knowledge required to know just how difficult something is, is usually the same knowledge that would make you good in it to begin with".
how so? i never implied talking about protoss in GM? merely your own assumption. i don't know how you think your limited experience in talking to 'GMs' is a legit argument either. Don't you have an own opinion? if you have, and it coincidently is the same with the opinion of the GMs/pros or whatever you talking with, there is still no need to bring this up, because their opinion is just their opinion.
if you are an amateur basketball player in highschool/college, and ask a professional basketball player (your so called GM), 'do i need a headband in order to play basketball?' -'hell yeah you do'. will you then go tell everyone who's playing basketball to get a headband and say to anyone who disagrees with it, 'well i asked this pro player and he said you need a headband, exactly what i think too, so you are wrong.' your opinion is your opinion. just because someone else has your opinion aswell, even a pro doesnt make it a fact or more legit.
also, your formula 1 example. people have different experiences, you know. if he never had to move a finger changing wheels because the car always remained in great shape. can you still tell him with certainty that he is wrong on a subjective statement?
as you said it yourself, it was a broad statement, and you were quick to jump to conclusions that i was talking about protoss in GM aswell. thus, your dunner kruger quote is irrelevant as i was only talking about my own league. i do not need to win a code S to talk about my experiences with protoss in my league right?
opinions can't be wrong, neither facts, thus, they are opinions.
On December 22 2013 02:59 QzYSc2 wrote: good thing i play protoss so i dont really need this
Thats hilariously wrong. You dont think you need precision when microing your stalkers, placing those forcefields, microing 4 control groups of different units, splitting and targeting banelings, even as simple as warping in a crowded field?
yes, my OPINION is wrong. yours is correct. /sarcasm. placing forcefields has a way bigger template and easier to do, then the accuracy required to click lets say a baneling.
yes this is only my opinion incase you didn't realize, and no my opinion cant be wrong.
edit: also, who the hell plays protoss with 4 control groups? warping in a crowded field you can just spam click, no accuracy required. feedback on medivac ghost you can spam click, because you can't actually cast it on marines/marauders. snipe on zealot instead of templar or zergling instead of baneling? oh sh-t.
Yes. Your OPINION in this case is wrong /not sarcasm. If you come back as gm or do well in a major tournament you can opinionate as much as you want. Until then you are wrong about this subject.
Look up Dunner Kruger while youre at it if you wonder why this is.
look, 1+1 = 3 is wrong. i like blue over black = opinion = cant be wrong stealing = bad = opinion = cant be wrong i do not suffer from this illusory superiority, do say where i was wrong.
i can have an opinion as much as i want aslong you don't own the site. i thought the forums is for discussing and sharing your opinion?
"Good thing in formula one you don't really need to know how to change gears". You see how I can say with certainty that "opinion" is absolutely wrong? You can opinionate all you want about how you don't feel like you need precision as protoss in your league. But the reason you are wrong is because you made a broad statement saying "protoss doesn't need precision", and I can tell you with certainty from experience and everyone I have talked to who are better than me, that if you want to get be good in this game, as in GM or better, you need precision. Thats why you are wrong. If you come back after winning a large tournament, you can make broad statements about this game as much as you like, and whatever I say would be wrong. You'd be the formula one driver then, and no one not currently doing it could possibly tell what is required. Alas, Dunner Kruger: "The knowledge required to know just how difficult something is, is usually the same knowledge that would make you good in it to begin with".
how so? i never implied talking about protoss in GM? merely your own assumption. i don't know how you think your limited experience in talking to 'GMs' is a legit argument either. Don't you have an own opinion? if you have, and it coincidently is the same with the opinion of the GMs/pros or whatever you talking with, there is still no need to bring this up, because their opinion is just their opinion.
if you are an amateur basketball player in highschool/college, and ask a professional basketball player (your so called GM), 'do i need a headband in order to play basketball?' -'hell yeah you do'. will you then go tell everyone who's playing basketball to get a headband and say to anyone who disagrees with it, 'well i asked this pro player and he said you need a headband, exactly what i think too, so you are wrong.' your opinion is your opinion. just because someone else has your opinion aswell, even a pro doesnt make it a fact or more legit.
also, your formula 1 example. people have different experiences, you know. if he never had to move a finger changing wheels because the car always remained in great shape. can you still tell him with certainty that he is wrong on a subjective statement?
as you said it yourself, it was a broad statement, and you were quick to jump to conclusions that i was talking about protoss in GM aswell. thus, your dunner kruger quote is irrelevant as i was only talking about my own league. i do not need to win a code S to talk about my experiences with protoss in my league right?
opinions can't be wrong, neither facts, thus, they are opinions.
you can send DMs to each other and battle it out there, for the purpose of this thread this is just noise <-_-> thx
On December 24 2013 18:06 DinosaurPoop wrote: how??? my mouse jumps like 9 pixels whenever i move it making it hard to precisely put it on T_T 40/58 Edit: my pointer not my mouse xDDD
Most of the time pixel skipping is due to a not 6/11 windows setting, you can use the Mouse Mouvement Recorder tool to check your pixel skipping. edit: I might be wrong, maybe you just use a high sensitivity
On December 24 2013 18:06 DinosaurPoop wrote: how??? my mouse jumps like 9 pixels whenever i move it making it hard to precisely put it on T_T 40/58 Edit: my pointer not my mouse xDDD
Most of the time pixel skipping is due to a not 6/11 windows setting, you can use the Mouse Mouvement Recorder tool to check your pixel skipping. edit: I might be wrong, maybe you just use a high sensitivity
Increasing DPI/CPI increases sensitivity while still allowing you to select every individual pixel, at 6/11 without postive/negative accel or other sensor/os flaws it should work fine, unless sens is just so crazy high that it's impossible to select a smaller window
lol Games Factory, was playing with it around like 8-10 yrs ago. even made few games, thats actually cool that it is possible to run these games on modern OS's gj! though i still play 1280x1024 D:
I was asking my company's programmer about making up something similar and he said it should be easy. I am glad someone had the same idea and made it happen. The only problem is that the dots are too small which makes it unrealistic. But it is still good.
Not sure how people can use 400-800 dpi. I know it's what most of the best koeans use but damn it seems so slow.
It's race specific I think. I noticed that its mostly terrans who use the low dpi, and zergs who use the higher ones. I think its because micro is so life-or-death for terran. The only time a 800dpi seemed worth it for me as zerg was in bling v bling.
On January 09 2014 21:27 SpeedyBozar wrote: I was asking my company's programmer about making up something similar and he said it should be easy. I am glad someone had the same idea and made it happen. The only problem is that the dots are too small which makes it unrealistic. But it is still good.
Oh, that's great news! Another feature that would be great for us starcraft players (and not too hard for a proper programmer) is to include the keyboard at the same time! So instead of just having a circle "click here", put a letter (or number) inside it, and make me first press the button on the keyboard, then the circle with the mouse.
Then let us customize if having the letters or not, which set of letter should be randomised between (we all use different hotkey setups), size of circles, etc.
For the longest to train precession I would use marine split challenge.. and only move one marine at a time :D
This type of training also alows for click, stimpack, move command , repeat as quick as possible.
However, because of it, I was completely blind to the lack of accuracy of my "Game head" "gamer's scaleable DPI" mouse.
It should be noted it has a 500 DPI mode, and a 1000 DPI mode.. 500 being pretty slow, and as a terran 1000 being a bit overkill.
To top it off, it jumps pixels! I played a few games to make sure it was not me, and in a few games I was certain the mouse is actually skipping over pixels sometimes going from below a red box to the top corner of the redbox with almost zero mouse movement.
This bothers me, so this may not be the thread, but anyone know of reliable 800 DPI mouse(s) that are not .. too expensive? ( or accurate scalable DPI .. but those tend to be expensive)
I just saw this one as it got bumped. And because I'm a programmer I thought it might be a good idea to make a new version of it, which I did right away. Basically it's the same as Snute's version, just that I added a settings program to set the resolution, dot size (fixed pixel size), dot count and the time you want to keep playing.
Download (Windows) The files are somewhat big because I used 'BlitzMax' to do this. But maybe I can figure out a way to reduce the file sizes. Also, before you start the game.exe the first time, you have to start the settings.exe and hit save.
If you guys got some ideas for improvement or find a bug, let me know and I will do my best to implement/fix it!
This got me thinking... Maybe I will do something in a proper programming language, different resolutions, etc. I could use Fitts law for properly advancing difficulty hm
My good reason for bumping this ancient post: /u/tbirddd over at Reddit had a copy of Snute's click game lying around, he posted it for your downloading pleasureand it still works!
On July 06 2018 12:01 UncleVinny wrote: My good reason for bumping this ancient post: /u/tbirddd over at Reddit had a copy of Snute's click game lying around, he posted it for your downloading pleasureand it still works!
Sometimes players call out each other for being imprecise with mouse movement and accuracy. I made a downloadable game for Windows resolution 1920x1080 to help practice accuracy. It is very simple, but can help you improve precision and stress management.
How to use the game: 1. Download the zip file, extract it anywhere you want and doubleclick on SnuteClickGame (red icon). 2. The game is now launched. Left-click the red-dot in the 'minimap' to begin the game. 3. Click the 3 red dots in the playfield to unlock another red dot in the minimap. 4. Repeat this and click as many red dots as possible before the time runs out. The time is shown in a green bar above the minimap. -- Tip: Try not to mis-click because hits and misses will be counted until the score screen. You want to have as many right clicks and as few misses as possible. -- Tip: Be conscious of your breathing and stress level when exercising this task. You may feel a stress similar to when under pressure in StarCraft if you're pushing yourself to clicking as many red buttons as possible. -- Tip: You can reset the game with F2 and exit the game with Alt-F4. The game will start on your main monitor and is only in Fullscreen 1920x1080.
How to make sense of this game, SC2 and optimal settings for your games 1. Uncheck 'Enable Mouse Sensitivity' in StarCraft 2. If you have been using the % slider function until now, you might want to stop. Disabling this option will make your pointer move the same way both in and out of game. Even when browsing the internet, clicking links, opening folders, you're still aiming and pointing and developing your precision.
2. Go to Control Panel, Mouse Properties, Pointer Options, make sure your mouse pointer speed is at 6/11. There are some pretty detailed topics here on TL explaining all of this so I'm not gonna go more into it. Disable "enhance pointer precision", also known as mouse acceleration.
3. If the speed is not comfortable with you, adjust the DPI on the mouse. Not all mice support this but if you have the option I'd recommend using that in combination with the settings in step 1 and 2.
As an example, I use the Razer Deathadder 2013 with 1900 dpi (default is 1800) and 6/11 in Windows at 1920x1080. Mouse sensitivity in SC2 is unchecked, so that my sense in SC2 and in Windows is the same.
What makes this game different from other flash/website precision trainers There are some precision trainers out there but none of them are built around SC2. The minimap and playfield is of the same size as SC2, so you'll be practicing precision in a somewhat familiar environment. While you're obviously not practicing StarCraft and the tasks you're executing in this game are totally different it should still be useful.
The major difference about this game and SC2 is that the things you need to click are extremely small and that you can't proceed with the game if you miss. The red buttons in this game are 10x10 pixels in size. Clicking in this game can be more difficult than clicking in StarCraft. If you think about it, most of the things you click in SC2 are big in size. Minerals are decently sized, main buildings are big, and sending workers to a gas geyser and executing macro doesn't require the precision of target-firing Banelings with Marines.
Which one is the most difficult to click, the Baneling or the Extractor?
A problem with SC2 is that the scenarios where you need spot-on precision don't happen often enough to get quality practice, and most of the time there isn't any real NEED for precision because you can still play decently and win games without. Very rarely does SC2 actively punish you for mis-clicking. An example is creep spread. You can have a very imprecise creep spread but still be able to win games, so you might not be aware of the improvement potential.
Some precision trainers have circles that change size, move or need to be pressed rapidly. This game is completely static and runs at your own pace. The buttons are very small but also do not move and are not on a timer. This makes the game playable for anyone regardless of your precision and speed skills.
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The game was made with a super old software called The Games Factory. I will not make it for other resolutions and I don't know how to make games in Flash or for websites, this is the only game programming I know. Just wanted to share it with u guys, who knows maybe someone who knows a bit more about game development will make a cooler and more useful trainer or something? maybe something in the Arcade? who knows~
Anyway maybe it will be helpful to some of you ^-^
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/w88qpfo.png)
![[image loading]](http://assets.razerzone.com/eeimages/products/6924/razer-deathadder-usp-2.png)
![[image loading]](http://static.eclypsia.com/uploads/media/raceSc2/0001/06/thumb_5861_raceSc2_normal.png)
![[image loading]](http://sc2.garcia-cuervo.net/images/units/zerg/Pesteling.gif)
the dots are so tiny compared to units in sc2 xD
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/d4DOhHY.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1RnDqq2.png)
800dpi is great for sc2, but 10x10 pixels is much smaller than other stuff like i explained. Also, shattering your muscle memory probably won't help too much :D
![[image loading]](http://www.pictureshack.ru/images/93440_Snimok.JPG)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qIkGa62.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/5SjS5.png)
