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On October 23 2013 04:20 Prog455 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2013 03:28 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 03:27 Prog455 wrote:On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote:
This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season.
I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america. Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one. Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance. Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea. Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably. I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA.
You can't really compare the tournaments. In Korea, for every match up, you have time to prepare for your opponents. In NA/EU, the RO8 onward is a marathon tournament. You have less than a day to prepare for your opponent. The time between semi and finals is less than an hour for players in NA/EU compared to one/two week(s) in Korea.
Highly nonideal to decide who is the best opponent when you cannot study their games thoroughly.
It's the reason why most people think the season finals are not as prestigious because the format is so different from Korea's. I suppose it would be hard to actually plan and allot time between matches for season finals which is understandable, but there should at least be some consistency between all the regions.
Playing marathon tournaments is very different than having time between matches. And if you don't have much experience between the two, you aren't going to get good results.
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Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2.
although the legacy part might be true I still wonder how little credit he gets for being the proleague mvp over innovation
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the best thing is that im on vacations  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On October 22 2013 23:36 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 20:06 Arno wrote:
Seems to me that NaNiwa is not going to make it.
First of all only two of Oz/soO/Dear needs to get 1000 pts (8th place or better) at the Season Finals.
(Less likely but not impossible(?): Vortix 1500, Byul/Trap/Genius/Hack 2000 pts.)
If that happens both Naniwa and Revival are out.
I think Revival gets (atleast?) 25 more pts in CL (when are those games played btw???)
25 puts him equal to Naniwa and they could play that BO5 offline at Blizzcon, IF only one of the aforementioned "Season Finals"-players get the points they need.
No, not looking good for the swede imho. Not true actually. They need to score 1500 points, they already have the points for being in the ro16 (500 points) added to their totals. So Oz/soO/Dear need 4th or better, Vortix need to make it to the finals and I believe Byul/Trap/Genius/Hack have to win it.
Ah! I didn't notice that the minmum points they will get is already added to their total!
That goes for Revival too then, so he can get maximum 3200 pts.
Looks a bit better for Naniwa that.
Thanks for clearing that up for me!
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On October 23 2013 05:00 TeslasPigeon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 04:20 Prog455 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2013 03:28 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 03:27 Prog455 wrote:On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote:
This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season.
I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america. Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one. Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance. Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea. Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably. I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA. You can't really compare the tournaments. In Korea, for every match up, you have time to prepare for your opponents. In NA/EU, the RO8 onward is a marathon tournament. You have less than a day to prepare for your opponent. The time between semi and finals is less than an hour for players in NA/EU compared to one/two week(s) in Korea. Highly nonideal to decide who is the best opponent when you cannot study their games thoroughly. It's the reason why most people think the season finals are not as prestigious because the format is so different from Korea's. I suppose it would be hard to actually plan and allot time between matches for season finals which is understandable, but there should at least be some consistency between all the regions. Playing marathon tournaments is very different than having time between matches. And if you don't have much experience between the two, you aren't going to get good results.
It's certainly true that you have less time to prepare in NA/EU but that only applies to the SF and the Finals. You have time to prepare for the RO8. And I think you can debate whether the "truer" test of a player is to have time to prepare or not to. They certainly reward different preparation methods and mindsets, but I can't say a player who does his best in situations when he has lots of time to prepare is necessarily a "better" player than one who does his best picking strategies on the fly in a "marathon" tournament.
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On October 23 2013 06:21 Yakikorosu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 05:00 TeslasPigeon wrote:On October 23 2013 04:20 Prog455 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2013 03:28 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 03:27 Prog455 wrote:On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote:
This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season.
I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america. Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one. Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance. Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea. Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably. I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA. You can't really compare the tournaments. In Korea, for every match up, you have time to prepare for your opponents. In NA/EU, the RO8 onward is a marathon tournament. You have less than a day to prepare for your opponent. The time between semi and finals is less than an hour for players in NA/EU compared to one/two week(s) in Korea. Highly nonideal to decide who is the best opponent when you cannot study their games thoroughly. It's the reason why most people think the season finals are not as prestigious because the format is so different from Korea's. I suppose it would be hard to actually plan and allot time between matches for season finals which is understandable, but there should at least be some consistency between all the regions. Playing marathon tournaments is very different than having time between matches. And if you don't have much experience between the two, you aren't going to get good results. It's certainly true that you have less time to prepare in NA/EU but that only applies to the SF and the Finals. You have time to prepare for the RO8. And I think you can debate whether the "truer" test of a player is to have time to prepare or not to. They certainly reward different preparation methods and mindsets, but I can't say a player who does his best in situations when he has lots of time to prepare is necessarily a "better" player than one who does his best picking strategies on the fly in a "marathon" tournament.
This.
Marathon tournaments often reward people with strong mechanics and game sense, where as preparation tournaments reward people who can come up with strong build orders.
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On October 23 2013 06:24 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 06:21 Yakikorosu wrote:On October 23 2013 05:00 TeslasPigeon wrote:On October 23 2013 04:20 Prog455 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2013 03:28 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 03:27 Prog455 wrote:On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote:
This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season.
I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america. Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one. Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance. Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea. Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably. I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA. You can't really compare the tournaments. In Korea, for every match up, you have time to prepare for your opponents. In NA/EU, the RO8 onward is a marathon tournament. You have less than a day to prepare for your opponent. The time between semi and finals is less than an hour for players in NA/EU compared to one/two week(s) in Korea. Highly nonideal to decide who is the best opponent when you cannot study their games thoroughly. It's the reason why most people think the season finals are not as prestigious because the format is so different from Korea's. I suppose it would be hard to actually plan and allot time between matches for season finals which is understandable, but there should at least be some consistency between all the regions. Playing marathon tournaments is very different than having time between matches. And if you don't have much experience between the two, you aren't going to get good results. It's certainly true that you have less time to prepare in NA/EU but that only applies to the SF and the Finals. You have time to prepare for the RO8. And I think you can debate whether the "truer" test of a player is to have time to prepare or not to. They certainly reward different preparation methods and mindsets, but I can't say a player who does his best in situations when he has lots of time to prepare is necessarily a "better" player than one who does his best picking strategies on the fly in a "marathon" tournament. This. Marathon tournaments often reward people with strong mechanics and game sense, where as preparation tournaments reward people who can come up with strong build orders.
marathon tournament just rewards those who are able to do the same build over and over again without being hard countered. or who find something good vs the current meta.
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On October 23 2013 06:29 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 06:24 Prog455 wrote:On October 23 2013 06:21 Yakikorosu wrote:On October 23 2013 05:00 TeslasPigeon wrote:On October 23 2013 04:20 Prog455 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2013 03:28 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 03:27 Prog455 wrote:On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote:
This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season.
I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america. Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one. Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance. Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea. Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably. I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA. You can't really compare the tournaments. In Korea, for every match up, you have time to prepare for your opponents. In NA/EU, the RO8 onward is a marathon tournament. You have less than a day to prepare for your opponent. The time between semi and finals is less than an hour for players in NA/EU compared to one/two week(s) in Korea. Highly nonideal to decide who is the best opponent when you cannot study their games thoroughly. It's the reason why most people think the season finals are not as prestigious because the format is so different from Korea's. I suppose it would be hard to actually plan and allot time between matches for season finals which is understandable, but there should at least be some consistency between all the regions. Playing marathon tournaments is very different than having time between matches. And if you don't have much experience between the two, you aren't going to get good results. It's certainly true that you have less time to prepare in NA/EU but that only applies to the SF and the Finals. You have time to prepare for the RO8. And I think you can debate whether the "truer" test of a player is to have time to prepare or not to. They certainly reward different preparation methods and mindsets, but I can't say a player who does his best in situations when he has lots of time to prepare is necessarily a "better" player than one who does his best picking strategies on the fly in a "marathon" tournament. This. Marathon tournaments often reward people with strong mechanics and game sense, where as preparation tournaments reward people who can come up with strong build orders. marathon tournament just rewards those who are able to do the same build over and over again without being hard countered. or who find something good vs the current meta.
marathon tournaments reward players who are solid and dont need the research and preparation to win vs their opponents. I think these tournaments show more of "the skill" of a player than gsl does for example.
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I'm fine, when you say Symbol doesn't deserve a spot in the top 16 of the world.
But Flash ... you guys say, he hasn't achieved anything, but not only was he the mvp of proleague, but if you look at his code S groups... he was always in the group of death, losing to innovation, parting, bomber and maru, but for example beating soulkey twice and maru once in the Ro32 in Season 1 and Season 2. If he had played in europe or america, he would have definitly a spot in the top 16.
Same is definitly true for Parting, Life and Rain.
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There is so much at stake here and it's the biggest event of the year for SC2. Personally I think it should be best of 7's through out the whole tournament. It's a little much but why not? Plenty of games for crazy comebacks and different strategies.
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On October 29 2013 01:17 Incubus1993 wrote:
There is so much at stake here and it's the biggest event of the year for SC2. Personally I think it should be best of 7's through out the whole tournament. It's a little much but why not? Plenty of games for crazy comebacks and different strategies.
If Blizzcon was able to accommodate Bo7s all the way through, it would be able to accommodate a better format than single elimination D:
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Are the times in liquipedia right? or are all the matches going to be streamed individually?
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France7248 Posts
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EPT
