EPTChoya says team will continue, criticizes WCS system (TIG)…
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
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1Dhalism
862 Posts
On October 03 2013 00:24 Darkhoarse wrote: Lower skill level doesn't have to mean lower viewership. Look at the LCS as a model. LCS NA could accurately be described as having the lowest level of skill of the regions, and yet it has extremely high viewer counts. I don't have the answer as to why, but I feel that saying that Lower skill means low viewer counts isn't necessarily true. Ye, but that works for LoL because NA has personalities that have been built up. If NA had prime Idra, for example, he alone would be bringing in about 10k viewers. Current SC2 is a different story. | ||
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bourne117
United States837 Posts
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On October 02 2013 19:27 Fionn wrote: We need some (up)magic and go(go) through this tough time or we'll not have the luxury to enjoy SC2 in Korea anymore. Would that be the type(b) of solution that we need? + Show Spoiler + Only remaining pun I could think of | ||
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CreationSoul
Romania231 Posts
This is where Riot and LCS are doing a better job: it created local heroes and it makes it easier for people to cheer for local heroes when there is NOT a 95% chance they will lose just because a korean player(team in LoL's case) is there. | ||
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BillGates
471 Posts
If they just hosted one tournament at Blizzcon with big prize pool, like say 500k giving to all top 16 players it would have been better, something similar like Valve's The International. | ||
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Spectralx
United States198 Posts
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Popkiller
3415 Posts
Can we do it now? It's dead, everyone. It's over. No one watches SC2 or talks about it anymore, so you can move on. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 03 2013 04:34 Popkiller wrote: question: when can we finally pronounce SC2 "dead" so these people will go away and stop talking about it? Can we do it now? It's dead, everyone. It's over. No one watches SC2 or talks about it anymore, so you can move on. So you want to fake the death of SC2 so the haters will leave. This is some Walter White style planning here, I like it. | ||
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Ohforfsake
Norway204 Posts
On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote: You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? Why does this always come up when this topic comes along. And always with the wrong conclusion. Since you are from Russia I'll assume you know what skiing is and have some grasp of that sport and use an example from the sport to explain this and what can be done to counteract it (it's also a very good sport to use since their situation is simular to korea and esports). First some facts. Skiing has a international federation called FIS who sets all the rules for international competition. This organization exists solely to promote the sport. It does not seek to maximize gain short term but to promote the sport as a whole long term (this part is important especially for esport). The organization is run by previous active athlets and not corporations. Here's a link to their rules for international competition. http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/wsc-rules-2012-e_clean-version_291012.pdf This is a growing sport that's been around for a long time and done the mistakes. It's also a sport with a very simular problem to esports. Norways is completely dominant as a nation. If there was no region locking and no limit of participation from different countries the top 10 of a world chamionship 2014 might look like this (I know there won't be a world championship next year). 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Russia 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway And this is the top 10 in 5 years if this result list was ever allowed: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Norway 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Norway 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway The international organization knows this and has put rules in place to limit Norway and other strong nations participation to make the competition more enjoyable to watch from people all over the world (as opposed to the result above who only norwegians would like). Because the goal of the organization is to grow the sport, not to promote Norway or norwegian athletes. So, every nation can only send 4 participants +1 slot for the reigning champion (follows the athlete not the country). So Norway usually has 5 participants, everyone else 4 or less. This gives Norway a little edge but nothing that will upset the competition too much. As a fan from Norway you can still look forward to a good championship where norwegians have a good chanse of winning. And a fan from every other country you can look forward to a championship where someone from your country _CAN_ win. Even Norway promotes these rules (and helped create them) because they realize that it's much more fun to be the champion in something people elsewhere care about as opposed to being the world champion in american football to take 1 example. Despite this Norway has been dominating pretty badly again lately and the norwegians worry that this might diminish the interest in the sport globally and damage the sport. To try and counteract this they send some of their trainers to other countries to help them build up the competition.We'll see if it's enough or more action need to be taken to level the field. This is how a professional sport works with these issues. Why is it so hard for esports to learn from them?? That is what i don't understand. Nothing we do creating these events is new except the media. When it comes to generating interest and "hype" there's over 100 years of history from other sports to learns from. Here's a actual result from the last WC (2013) to give you and idea what these rules have ment for skiing. Womens 10k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Russia 4. Germany 5. USA 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Finland 9. Norway 10. France Men 15k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Sweden 3. Norway 4. Canada 5. Norway 6. Sweden 7. Estonia 8. Switzerland 9. Germany 10. Sweden It can be done guys. | ||
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Coffeeling
Finland250 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:18 Spaylz wrote: It sounds cliché, but Blizzard's stance on.. well, everything, changed after they were bought out by Activision. I wouldn't say all of the bad decisions are made by higher ups from that notoriously greedy company, as the Blizzard reps themselves have made a flew blunders, but I'm willing to bet there is some legitimate blame to be laid on Activision. Oh well, that's how the world works and everything. We'll probably never see the old Blizzard, the one with the people who knew what they could and couldn't do and who didn't compromise the quality or the management of their game for the sake of profit (not deluding myself here, Blizzard naturally always cared about profit, as any company should, but they certainly used to handle things better and just overall looked a lot less greedy in everything they did). I'd propose a different reason for the change: WoW. Old Blizzard was a product-oriented, worldbuilding kind of company. They made boxed games, sold them, done. The company got it's fame on the back of stellar worldbuilding, and great polish. Multiplayer balancing, not so much. But a product-oriented approach, a worldbuilding approach doesn't really work with a huge MMO. They have to turn into a service organization, and get their creative to work on churning content, but content of a different kind because there has to be a ton of twists and turns and small quests, and things have to fit into WoW's two-faction model whether it makes sense or not. + Show Spoiler + Hey, druidistic elves ally with steamtank-making dwarven nation from across the sea? Instead of the shamanistic orcs with whom they fought against the daemons? Makes sense. As does peace-loving Thrall giving leadership to a clear warmonger who almost killed the King of Lordaeron in negotiations. Yessir. Not contrived at all. And let us not forget the spaceships. Or the physical portals into the Emerald Dream, because THAT sure isn't an ass-pull. Finally, WoW art direction is creeping into their other franchises, steadily eroding any unique character they used to have. On October 02 2013 23:44 Spaylz wrote: On the bright side, if SC2 does die and all Koreans go back to BW while foreigners move on to other games, it could bring Blizzard to make WC4 and try to salvage their mistakes! Absolute wishful thinking, I know. ;< Azeroth has been damaged beyond repair by WoW. They'd need to make a complete, new world where stuff can make sense again. Not that they bothered with consistency with SC2 and D3, tho. | ||
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painkilla
United States695 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 03 2013 05:19 painkilla wrote: Funny how the SC2 dying threads are generating posts faster than a LR. So it looks like shitting on SC2 is more fun than actually watching SC2. It takes less effort. You just copy all the previous arguments and say "design flaws" a bunch. Then blame DB and DK. EZPZ. | ||
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partydude89
1850 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On October 03 2013 05:22 Plansix wrote: It takes less effort. You just copy all the previous arguments and say "design flaws" a bunch. Then blame DB and DK. EZPZ. It's funny because that's sort of what Duran did with his thread. It's just all the same shit rehashed in one thread, so if anyone missed anything. Well, shit. He covers a lot of it. Go figure. Maybe they hope someone from Blizzard missed the other stuff so when they retype it in their own words they'll possibly see it? I don't know. It just goes around in circles and circles. In either case this has nothing really to do with this thread. I don't think half the people posting have a clue of the events that led to this and for those who are interested you might as well watch unstable's vlog with regards to it because he's pretty thorough and it makes sense as to why FXO would no longer be interested in supporting them. On October 03 2013 05:26 partydude89 wrote: how would a region lock be fair to people in the Sea region though? You really don't need a region lock to create a fair system though. It's very short-sighted. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On October 03 2013 05:14 Coffee Zombie wrote: I'd propose a different reason for the change: WoW. Old Blizzard was a product-oriented, worldbuilding kind of company. They made boxed games, sold them, done. The company got it's fame on the back of stellar worldbuilding, and great polish. Multiplayer balancing, not so much. But a product-oriented approach, a worldbuilding approach doesn't really work with a huge MMO. They have to turn into a service organization, and get their creative to work on churning content, but content of a different kind because there has to be a ton of twists and turns and small quests, and things have to fit into WoW's two-faction model whether it makes sense or not. + Show Spoiler + Hey, druidistic elves ally with steamtank-making dwarven nation from across the sea? Instead of the shamanistic orcs with whom they fought against the daemons? Makes sense. As does peace-loving Thrall giving leadership to a clear warmonger who almost killed the King of Lordaeron in negotiations. Yessir. Not contrived at all. And let us not forget the spaceships. Or the physical portals into the Emerald Dream, because THAT sure isn't an ass-pull. Finally, WoW art direction is creeping into their other franchises, steadily eroding any unique character they used to have. Azeroth has been damaged beyond repair by WoW. They'd need to make a complete, new world where stuff can make sense again. Not that they bothered with consistency with SC2 and D3, tho. Yeah... I've never played WoW much, but I've been keeping up with the lore. I believe we now have beings of light that travel between worlds on spaceships, so it is true. Absolute non sense indeed. You are probably right about WC4 too. Unless they do some sort of spin-off story, they can't realistically salvage the butchery that has been going on with the Warcraft lore. Blizzards don't really do spin-offs anyway, so here it is. Besides, they have been riding the wave of their three franchises for far too long now, and it's getting a little tiresome. Looking at the huge success of ARTS games (which are direct derived products of WC3 itself, let us not forget it), I truly believe the formula of WC3 (RTS with heroes and a heavy focus on micro) would bring about a lot of success to the entire RTS genre. I can't be the only one to think that, really. I do hope Blizzard sees that and comes up with a similar game featuring a new world/franchise. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On October 03 2013 05:19 painkilla wrote: Funny how the SC2 dying threads are generating posts faster than a LR. So it looks like shitting on SC2 is more fun than actually watching SC2. For the people that stop by to troll every sc2 thread and say it's dying it is more fun for them than watching sc2. I kinda agree with choya though that WCS has hurt sc2. It's one of the main reasons I won't watch sc2 cause it's just an all around shitty league. People can make up all the excuses they want for Blizzard but there are still issues they haven't resolved since since the first season. I wish WCS just went away (died) already and GSL was brought back. It would be like going from shit to amazing sc2 tournament in one fell swoop. | ||
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Avs
Korea (North)857 Posts
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Zenniv
United States545 Posts
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