• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:04
CEST 00:04
KST 07:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver4[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon96Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?175Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? [D] Brainstorming a balance patch for Brood war Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro16 Group C [ASL22] Ro16 Group B [ASL22] Ro16 Group A
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Diablo IV [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7918 users

Code S - Ro16 Group D Preview (Season 3) - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
104 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Caladan
Profile Joined May 2008
Germany1238 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-29 23:43:56
September 29 2013 23:27 GMT
#101
Gotta agree to that.

The point in SC2 is that it's so fragile that very often not the better player wins, but the winner is determined by luck (best example: this close group). The skill ceiling in SC2 is reached by all the top players, and minor mistakes, random stuff like scouting luck or build order luck decide the games and often whole careers.
Flash has yet to improve, yes, but it's not his fault alone. How many "upsets" have been happening in the last months of SC2? It's the common thing in SC2 to happen.

A fact is: A top SC2 player can often lose to a worse player. Substantially more often than for example in Chess or also Starcraft:Broodwar.

Look at WCS EU. Three seasons and three times almost all new RO8 players. It's like shuffeling, luck and minor things.

For the best player to mostly win there needs to be a higher skill ceiling and more possibilities to come back. It's just not there yet in SC2 gameplay-wise - as all the results have shown the last year - and probably will never be, according to Blizzard.

And that all is in my opinion the prime reason for SC2's decline. The crowd wants heroes winning, it wants them to do things that normal players never could do (like thinking 8 moves ahead in chess or doing perfect storms in broodwar), and it wants comebacks to happen. All those things are rather seldom in SC2. But why am I writing this... 3 years ago we told Blizzard exactly this and nothing changed.
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
September 29 2013 23:37 GMT
#102
On September 30 2013 08:04 lifecanwait wrote:
Guys you should stop blaming the players on everything.

Do you actually still play this game? Do you play highest level? No? Then you don't have much clue.
Like Flash said in an interview, sc2 is so very different from bw. A slight mistake can cause you the game immediately. There are often no comebacks, just all-ins if players are smelling blood.
The whole game feels so fragile. In a BW match, you could fight on multiple fronts. There was 1000 x more strategy involved... Move your forces in the right way, get in position, flank, arch.
Now this is also coming more and more in sc2, but in how many matches can we acutally see this? 1/8 maybe. Most matches are actually quite boring especially lately in GSL.

And thanks to David Kim it is too late to 'change the pace' of the game. I will keep watching the highest level play but in terms of strategy this is just not the game I was looking forward to. The faster pace makes it even more reliant on APM and less on strategy. Mechanics is key, thinking is not necessary. Imho that's why a lot of the BW players are loosing vs the new sc2 pros. It's not tactics, it's not lack of strategy or game understanding. Sc2 is not hard to understand. It is lack of mechanics and fragility or pace of the game.

bro if you don't play at the highest level I don't think you can make any of these claims either rofl
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Crowz
Profile Joined September 2013
4 Posts
September 30 2013 00:42 GMT
#103
On September 30 2013 04:58 H0i wrote:

You can watch them here for free: http://www.twitch.tv/wcs_gsl/profile

Just make sure to hover over the video names and find the right order, because the order is a bit shuffled.


Thank you very much!!
mostwanted
Profile Joined March 2011
83 Posts
September 30 2013 02:38 GMT
#104
I agree that SC2 skill cap level has been reached

That explains why a tiny mistake is so intolerable and luck, blind counter builds play major role in MU
It wasn't the case with BW.
I am not playing this game enough to tell how but Blizzard needs to get more feedback from the pro seriously.
NA BNET forum is the worst place to get feedback on balance etc.

ASK those who play this for living and redesign this game in LoTV, you Blizzard only has 1 chance left.
Please make it worthy successor of BW
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9175 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-30 03:13:31
September 30 2013 02:56 GMT
#105
On September 30 2013 08:04 lifecanwait wrote:
The faster pace makes it even more reliant on APM and less on strategy. Mechanics is key, thinking is not necessary. Imho that's why a lot of the BW players are loosing vs the new sc2 pros. It's not tactics, it's not lack of strategy or game understanding. Sc2 is not hard to understand. It is lack of mechanics...

I'm a big fan of the BW players but seriously just read what you wrote and notice how retarded you sound. The BW players are losing due to a lack of mechanics? A lack of APM? SC2 requires far less. Mechanics is the main thing they've got going for them and the reason many struggle is that their mechanics used to carry them whereas strategic geniuses and micro/engagement specialists with inferior mechanics can now compete in SC2.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
HiyA 77
soO 38
910 33
Dota 2
monkeys_forever349
NeuroSwarm157
League of Legends
JimRising 610
Counter-Strike
Fnx 709
Super Smash Bros
PPMD38
Other Games
summit1g6457
FrodaN1096
shahzam516
XaKoH 339
Pyrionflax204
Railgan21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2277
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 37
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 35
• Eskiya23 14
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22071
Other Games
• imaqtpie885
• Shiphtur175
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
11h 56m
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
GSL
12h 56m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 1h
The PondCast
1d 11h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 12h
Replay Cast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
5 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
5 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Proleague 2026-09-14
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.